Talk:Horde Council

Mayla
Does anybody know what interview this refers to? What's the exact wording? Maybe add it in the notes section in relation to Mayla (at least with wording that according to Roux)? -- 19:22, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I knew that she did different interviews but never heard anything about her saying that all the Horde leaders were on the council. And since she has gone record about being in communication with Blizzard while making the novel, to the extent of getting them making them see that Shadows Rising couldn't be something that players would feel they have to read like The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, while still following their outline... a part of me can't help but feel that if we find the alleged interview mentioned in the tweet, that we should change, "At some point afterward, Voldunai vulpera caravan leader Kiro joined the council." to "At some point afterward, Chieftain Mayla Highmountain and Voldunai vulpera caravan leader Kiro joined the council."--X59 (talk) 19:15, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I found the interview: Beyond Shadows Rising - Lore Interview With Madeleine Roux starting about 58:10. While it's Nobbel87 who says everyone is on the council, Roux does acknowledged that people were missing/not mentioned and that her not writing them on the council, doesn't mean that they aren't on it. She does mention Mayla, but in the context of her personal opinion that the Horde shouldn't have all of their leadership in on place and how absent leaders should have ambassadors/dignities present for their interest.
 * Though the question is: Does this confirm that Mayla is on the council? I'm of the opinion that it does, especially since she went from mentioning Kiro to Mayla while talking about the Horde Council. However I feel it best to have more opinions on the matter.--X59 (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I think this is enough to put her on there. The Highmountain getting explicitly mentioned then later the idea that she says 'This isn't the definitive list, there are people missing'; the only person 'missing is literally Mayla and Geya'rah, the latter of which we know is a Councilmember.--Berenal (talk) 21:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 * To me, it sounds like she considers her to be part of the council, and she explains the absence / missing thing in the interview, yeah. I thiink it should be fine to add her to the council based on it. The other option would be to just explain the interview info in the Notes section on the Horde Council page (expand the first point there) and on Mayla's page and word it that it is just according to her. -- 11:10, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to assume that Mayla is not on the council. I believe Roux mentioned the "Not every Horde leader is going to be in Orgrimmar all the time" thing in several interviews, not just the Nobbel one, but I didn't note it down when I was listening through them because I thought it was fairly obvious. -- 12:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * With how the discussion has been going, I removed the hidden aspect of the article thus adding Mayla to the council. And then updated her own page and the New Horde template, accordingly.--X59 (talk) 17:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Calia and Other Member Section
The the only thing that I've seen call Calia a member of the Horde Council, is wowhead. The same wowhead that referred to the Mag'har member as being unknown when it described the council in Shadows Rising, even though the Warchief of the Horde (quest) showed said Mag'har was Overlord Geya'rah, and when summarizing Before the Storm tell people that Calia sneaked into the Gathering and how Anduin didn't know she was there. Which we know is false as Anduin helped Calia attend and was worried that she would be recognized. Thus wowhead can't be seen as completely reliable when it comes to information about Calia.

Furthermore while we know that Calia was present for at least one meeting, that could easily be explained as her being invited to attend by Lilian Voss. And I'm of the opinion that the other member section should be removed. The council leads the Horde, and from what we've seen the members are singular, and the official leader of their people. And in the event that a race gets a second council seat, I feel the best way forward would be to list them as co-representative of . I also think the other member section can be open, like people seeing named characters at meetings and then adding them to the other section. For example a part of me does feel that someone might try adding Zekhan to the other member section because he served as Thrall's page for, at least one, council meeting(s).--X59 (talk) 00:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed; I think that Shadows Rising doesn't explicitly elaborate on Calia being a part of the Horde Council, but she is described as councilor of the Horde Forsaken. She was "just present", just like Zekhan was. There were also some unnamed Darkspears and Mag'har orcs in the first meeting described, further implying that the meetings have more individuals present besides the actual leaders. -- 07:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * When Lilian and Calia arrive in Grommash Hold in chapter 1, the text states that "Their conspicuously missing council member had at last appeared" and goes on to describe Lilian, and only then describes Calia. This clearly implies that only Lilian is a council member.
 * I do think it'd make sense to have a section for other people who attend the meetings as servants/guards for the councilors but aren't councilors themselves, like Zekhan, Gunk, Lorlidrel, and the unnamed Mag'har orcs. -- 12:06, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * While I get the logic of having another section for other attendees, it might be best to include other attendees in a trivia note. Like "Though not members of the council Zekhan and Calia were known to have attended meetings as Thrall's page and Lilian Voss's councilor, respectively."
 * Furthermore of the known council meetings from creation to the Death Rising event, we know that Zekhan, Valeera Sanguinar, Calia, Aggra, and Horde adventurers were involved as either witnesses, serving a role for a member of the council, being personally invited for a meeting with the council, or allowed to stand with them. Thus if we did to another section for other attendees, exactly how it should function? For example should it list every known non-council member to attend or just focus on repeat attendees?--X59 (talk) 23:11, 10 September 2020 (UTC)