Talk:Timeline

Untitled
It says something about Spoiler Protection of some sort, so that a reader has to select the text to see the information. It gives an example of this, but it does not occur in any part of the Timeline. What's the point of it then?--Neri 05:33, 20 Feb 2006 (EST)

Math
I could have sworn that Warcraft 3 took place 15 years after Warcraft II, yet it's listed as 19 years. 6 + 15 does not equal 25. -Kongurous 23:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That date has been changed many times, the listing here is the most up to date resolution of the date and should be correct. I can't confirm because I don't know the detials or the source anymore, as i stupidly didn't make notes. Baggins, who heavily contributed to this behind the scenes can probably answer it better. --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal  23:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, seems its the result of changes post-wow to the timeline via the RPG and novels. See the more recent official timelines for details. --  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal  http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 00:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

War of the shifting sands, problem.
the timeline on the main page shows the war of the shifting sands to happen before the war of the ancients, but that conflicts with events detailed in the war of the ancients trilogy. During the war malfurian was young and not yet mated to Tyrande, but in wow it is quite clear that malfurion's son was killed by General Rajaxx of the Quirajii, not to mention that during the war of the ancients malfurion was somewhat unknown and in the war of the shifting sands he was clearly a powerful leader of his people.


 * Malfurion doesn't have a son. You're confusing Malfurion with Fandral Staghelm.  -- Maenos 22:29, 14 November 2006 (EST)


 * In The War of the Shifting Sands Shiromar recalls the war "as if it were only yesterday and not a thousand years past" during the opening of the scarab wall. Not very precise but that may help place the war in the timeline. I cannot find any reference to the war as occurring prior to the war of the anchients as described above. Can anyone else locate such a source? Micron 22:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

It was said to to be one thousand years ago in TBC manual as well.Baggins 22:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

"The spirit of Balnazzar"
In the section of the article entitled Between 21 and 25 Years After the First War, there's a note that the "spirit of Balnazzar [...] possesses the body of the paladin Saiden Dathrohan." This seems inaccurate, since when you kill Dathrohan, he transforms into Balnazzar, not resurrects Balnazzar. It seems more likely that the dreadlord is actually masquerading as this paladin rather than possessing his body. See the article on Balnazzar for more information. I'd like to change that note to something more accurate but can't quite think of what that might be yet.


 * Well actually it is a possession, of a corpse.Baggins 16:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:29, 7 January 2007 (EST)
This timeline has been compiled and completele revised to match the latest official sources, taking retcons into account. The events and sources are now marked and offlinked from the timeline. This means all events Blizzard consider important and have provided an ability to order and determine relations by are present. This means no adding on random notes of events from the sources, as these are already included in the written accounts and the sources from Blizzard and would be very messy, difficult to place, and would result in admins needing to determine what what deserves to be added, and when enough is enough. It's better to leave this up to Blizzard. Feel free to question and discuss issues you may see, and make correction. I will be revising this personally on the release of each new source a information revealed from them. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 19:29, 7 January 2007 (EST)

To-Do

 * Rest of the In-Game books
 * In-game stories and pecies of text
 * War of the Shifting sands and other patch related stories from the official site
 * Double checking all the RPG placements

Update
Just to point out i'm no longer maintaining this page (infact, i stopped a long time ago now). I will however be updating the one in my userspace User:Zeal/Sandbox/Source:Timeline_%28unofficial%29|here from which anyone is welcome to update this one where they see fit. --Zeal 12:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Add the fall of the Betrayer?
Maybe we should add a few events to the latest facts of this timeline.--<span style="border-bottom:2px; cursor:help" title="Kirochi is the WoWWiki Bookkeeper Majordomo and a patroller"> K )  (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The Temple of Atal'Hakkar and the Gurubashi Empire
In the world dungeons page the temple's destruction is described as "over a thousand years ago". DO we have enough information to be more precise and relate the initial summoning of Hakkar to other events in the timeline or the Gurubashi empire's history? Micron 22:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

New Horde
Lord of the Clans and the New horde are misplaced. They would allow for Thrall to be only 10 year old during the liberation of the orcs, who's lethargy would have only lasted two years with this placement. Also, Lord of the Clans takes place at roughly the same time as Of Blood and Honor, which is listed as taking place ten years later.Tweak the Whacked 21:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well this is a difficult issue, but I recommend you look at all versions of the the timelines and note that LOTC is placed all over the place on every time timeline... There are issues with each one... Not even the ingame/TBC established dates match up with other timelines published or released in other locations. In anycase I forget where I put down the numbers, but LOTC placement has varied anywhere between 7 and 20 years before TBC depending on the timelines... --Baggins 23:47, 23 December 2007 (UTC)!!!23:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a case of Blizzard not thinking or planning well.
 * There is no possible way for Thrall to have been found as an infant during the time calculated by The New Horde. No matter which timeline you use to place the events included it, they all prove the date in to be false. This means the presumed age (18-20) is also wrong.
 * Having said that, i've gone back over and expanded the span of LotC and other text that match it's events so they better reflect the length of events given by other timelines. Those events basically now span from 8-24. This leaves the New Horde starting around 14, which means Thrall was actually only 4-6 (as we only knew he was an infant, typically 1-2 years old, when found) when he started fighting, 6-8  when he escaped and 10-12 when he becomes warchief. Ridiculous i know, but it's just evident to how poorly the Warcraft timeline has been managed.


 * You can see my changes at User:Zeal/Sandbox/Source:Timeline (unofficial) -- <ul style="font-size: 0.85em; margin: 0; padding: 0; list-style: none; list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; display: inline; white-space: nowrap"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 01:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Additions
I added in Ghostlands after Shadows of Ice, World of Warcraft (Wildstorm comic) immediately before the Burning Crusade (it occurs before the Exodar's crash, but perhaps after the Blood Elves have joined the Horde), and The Dragons of Outland immediately after the Burning Crusade, since it's fairly safe to assume that's when it'll be set.

I'm also curious about whether or not it might be a nice idea to include signifigant content patches and world events (which were referenced in the BC manual's "Then and Now: Conflict and Triumph in the World of Warcraft"), listed using their official titles. For example:

World of hostilities

 * 30
 * World of Warcraft RPG
 * Lands of Mystery
 * World of Warcraft
 * Battlegrounds
 * Assault on Blackwing Lair
 * Rise of the Blood God
 * Dragons of Nightmare
 * The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj
 * Shadow of the Necropolis
 * The Scourge Invasion
 * Alliance Player's Guide
 * Horde Player's Guide
 * Monster Guide
 * Monster Guide


 * 31
 * Rise of the Horde
 * World of Warcraft (Wildstorm comic)
 * Before the Storm
 * The Dark Portal Opens
 * World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
 * The Black Temple
 * The Dragons of Outland
 * The Gods of Zul'Aman
 * The Gods of Zul'Aman


 * 32
 * World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

I'm not sure exactly how some of the older stuff would fit in around the RPG books, though I imagine the Monster Guide would have to be after the Scourge Invasion. Input? Suzaku 23:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll address in more detail later, but theres re some inconsistancies that have made Ghostlands hard to place (but i see you've settled for the same placement as myself).
 * I had intended to added lore and events added by the large content patches, but hadn't got round to it yet. Seem to placed correctly at a glance.
 * Dragons of Outland certainly occurs post TBC, though it remains uncertain if it happens before 2.1 and 2.3 yet. I'd think it happens before them both. -- <ul style="font-size: 0.85em; margin: 0; padding: 0; list-style: none; list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; display: inline; white-space: nowrap"> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_zeal.png|User:Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_talk.png|User talk:Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_contribs.png|Special:Contributions/Zeal </li> http://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/sig-av/wiki_end.png|User:Zeal </li></ul> 01:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, the thing about Ghostlands is that it couldn't take place that long after Shadows of Ice, only about the length of time it would take for Dar'khan to fly to Quel'thalas on his dragon (Frostwyrm? Well, whatever it is...).
 * Most of the WoW patches are guesses, really just there more for an example, though I did try to place them roughly in the right timeframe. As for the Dragons of Outland, it's hard to say, since it's also supposed to lead into Wrath content, which could very well deal with Kalecgos being enslaved and other issues with the upcoming Sunwell Plateau content patch. There's also the possibility there will be multiple books, which could span a signifigant amount of the Burning Crusade "cycle".
 * There's also the fact that most of the patch pages don't offer a great deal of information lorewise, so perhaps some articles detailing the major events of the World of Warcraft and Burning Crusade cycles could be called for? Suzaku 09:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The main thing to tage into account is that Sunwell trilogy and Lands of Conflict have to overlap.


 * 1. The first book of Sunwell trilogy shows tarren mill before its taken over by the Scourge.
 * 2. Brann Bronzebeard is journeying north on his way to plaguelands and later Quel'Thalas when he reachs Hillsbrad. He reaches it after its fallen and the Forsaken have already taken over.
 * 3. He reaches Quel'Thalas before Silvermoon has been taken back by the Blood Elves. The Blood Elves are still trying to fight back from Quel-Danas (Sunwell Island).
 * 4. Ghostlands takes place right after they have recaptured Silvermoon.
 * 5. Brann sends the book to his brother sometime later, and starts on his Lands of Mystery journey.


 * In other words both books occur in around the same period of time.Baggins (talk) 06:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Info goes where?
I am not sure where to put this or if it is even evidence. In the Last Guardian there are a few quotes about demons being on Azeroth in the beginning. "In the First Days, there were demons in the land, and great heroes arose to drive them out." "From that, the general belief is that when the demons were defeated, they were driven out of this world entirely. They were pushed out of the light and living, and into thier own domain." Rolandius (talk) 11:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Not here, that's for sure. :p Probably best to put a mention of early apperances of Demons in Guardians_of_Tirisfal to expand upon what's there. If my memeory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't) those extracts are in reference to the uncontrolled use of Arcane magic bringing in members of the Burning Legion and the need for a Guardian to exist to counter that. If not, then perhaps just in a an article about demons :S -- 20:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The Speculation tag is not an excuse for random crap
If you're gonna leave a BS statement like "but should be as accurate as, and more complete than, what Blizzard have provided" in the article, then you still need citations and references to justify where things go in the timeline. Using a Speculation tag does not exempt a page or section. -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 7:39 PM PST 5 Sep 2008

Mixed up dates
Currently people are adding information based on both the RPG standard (WoW in the year 30) and the website standard (WoW in the year 25). This means the Wrath of the Lich King supposedly starts before the end of the Frozen Throne. Since the article is mostly based on the RPG standard, please take that into account when copying dates from other sources. --LastStand (talk) 22:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Note that the rpg standard (isn't exactly the RPG) it is also the standard used by certain dates in The Burning Crusade quotes (Rexxar coming to azeroth about 30 years before TBC for example). The rpg has varied between 25 and 30 depending on source :p... Yes we know this subject is "f'uped". If you went with the website alone ingame dates will occur before they actually could have happened :p.


 * One possibility is to create two unofficial timelines one based on 25 standard, and one based on 30 year standard so that the two can be compared and show off where the problems really crop up.Baggins (talk) 22:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Dates and Context
I was wondering, is there a limit to what dates/events can be placed on the timeline-provided birthdates in the WCII manual, events mentioned but not actually shown in media? Or is it to be considered something more along the lines of a product chronology?

Another issue I wonder about, is whether it could be more informative and in-depth, using the products as reference for events rather than as listing installments themselves, narration being provided. Anyway, just a thought.--Hawki (talk) 21:48, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Recent history needs editing
The recent history section has been allowed to tail off. Even if we don't have dates, I still think that major events such as the Shattered Sun Offensive should be listed, in the order of occurance. Kimera 757 (talk) 03:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Major mistake?
According to ALL the timelines I've checked out, the novel Day of the Dragon (and of course its newly-released sequel Night of the Dragon) is listed AFTER the Warcraft II Expansion. Isn't this a major mistake, since the book tells about the rescue of the Dragonqueen? In fact, the briefing from the 5th orc mission in Beyond the Dark Portal (Dragons of Blackrock Spire) states: [...] With the Dragon Queen Alexstrasza rescued and the Dragonmaw clan captured by the Alliance... events occured in the Richard A. Knaak novel. So I think every timeline should be modified accordingly. What do you think?


 * The problem is that Blizzard has changed that date, just check the manual of Warcraft III or the timeline from the official site . I'm not sure (as I don't have the book) but I think that the novel Beyond the Dark Portal is told as if Day of the Dragon is after that war. But yeah it's a major mistake but from Blizzard not from the article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 18:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Haven't read Beyond the Dark Portal yet, I'll consider that afterward. Anyway since WC III release follows that of the novel (Day of the Dragon, 2001), Blizzard must have intended to make it happen subsequently. Also, the Battle of Grim Batol (on the official website) comes after the invasion of Draenor. The thing is, why did they choose to be so grossly in contrast with the WC II Exp storyline... wouldn't have been simpler to set the whole thing in the right way? Looks like an error done on purpose. However, I'm gonna read Day of the Dragon asap, hopefully that'll gonna clear the matter up... =) --Aurigon (talk) 19:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

You mentioned Night of the Dragon but I can't find it between the events in the timeline. Should be somewhere between WoW:BC and WoW:WotLK as it "provides insight into events leading up to Wrath of the Lich King". A mistake or is it still unclear where to integrate the events of the novel? --Cyrdaz (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Night of the Dragon is a follow-up to DotD, hence its events should take place right after in the timeline (and before the ones in Beyond the Dark Portal). The "insight into events leading up to WotLK" should be taken merely for what it is: simple hints. In Rise of the Horde, for example, the intros to each of the chapters are narrated by Thrall, where he makes references to the present situation of his people (prior to The Burning Crusade, that is). Aurigon (talk) 23:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because it's a follow-up doesn't mean it's chronologically right after. The book involves a draenei, Outland, and netherdrakes. It can't possibly take place anywhere BUT post-BC. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I said that just because the book was announced to be a follow-up to DotD... that means to me but one thing. Anyway I haven't read it yet, though I suppose it SHOULD be simple to understand whether it takes place, i.e., before the Third War or not. ;) Aurigon (talk) 16:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Wrong date?
It says on here that Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal was in the year 7 and Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos was in the year 25, which would mean 18 years of "peace" between the Second and Third Wars. I found this quote though saying "Their healing of the land was only two decades begun when the Third War came to Lordaeron." which means that there were 20 years of "peace" between the Second and Third Wars.Alliance Player's Guide, pg. 129 Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 03:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because "only two decades begun" sounds better than "only one point eight decades begun." Really, are you seriously trying to argue the difference between eighteen years and two decades? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to be accurate then yes I am. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Drak'Thul did say that Gul'dan had raised the volcanic islands "NEARLY twenty years ago" (my emphasis), so it was indeed less than 20 years between the end of Tides of Darkness and the beginning of the Frozen Throne. --Alpha Sigma Sigma (talk) 07:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Continuation
I'm not trying to inflact me ego, but this page is dead without my input. I made the stupid mistake of not making notes and logging a back and forth between me and Baggins during it's development.

Without such notes or understanding (lost to me now), the research would need to be done all over again. Having said that, i'd like to offer some insight into the intent and process behind this should others wish to take up it's challange and redo it from scratch.

The goal was not about setting dates, it was about establishing an order of events in relation to each other. Dating was only chosen to make viewing easier. Anything listed under a date was considered to fall anywhere between it and the next date.

When it came to solving retcons, the newest source (by release) was what was always chosen, no matter what. There was no consideration made for what issues and mistakes the changes bring about (namely character ages and spans of events). Trying to do anything more than that is pointless, as there's too many mistakes by Blizzard that can't be resolved without future retcons from them (to the point i feel even the simpler goal is likely a lesson in futility)

Sorry for not documenting it, and those who continue it have my sympathies. -- 02:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

The arrows
How do I add arrows after the words "ends" and "beginns"? --Frejh (talk) 15:45, September 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * You forgot to actually start the template is all. I've fixed for you and you can see what i did different here. -- 16:29, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

What is the King's Calendar?
Title says it all and is there more information about it? 15:53, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * A year later and nobody answered you. Well, I'll do :P It was an old way to calculate the timeline when warcraft: orcs and human was released. Since then, Blizzard droped the idea. You can see where it was used there: Chronicles of the War in Azeroth Guyomeprime (talk) 03:34, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Major events
While this page was edited up to a couple of months ago, major events in World of Warcraft have not been covered.

IMO, it's not enough to just say for year 31, "World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade begins",, but should also include major events, such as the death of Illidan and the destruction of the Sunwell. Similarly, it would help if new fans new which took place first; the Wrathgate, or the Battle of Hope's Chapel. Etc. I'm saying it needs some more detail. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs) 03:22, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Needs update
Cataclysm (and Cataclysm related media, like World of Warcraft: Shaman) have given us some more insight into the timeline that needs to be consolidated into the timeline here. For example, Shaman states that it occurs in year 27; should the timeline be retooled around that (being the most recent dates we've gotten) or should it be dismissed as flawed and not completely canon?Skreeran (talk) 11:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't know about a difference?
Got this response from GMs, let me know if it makes any difference to what we've got here. Aphetoros (talk) 23:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * "You are not authorized to download this attachment." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:52, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * GMs of a private server?-- 00:55, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't think so, put it on a friends site. Lemme check. Aphetoros (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2011 (UTC) This is from retail-- The Venture Co. Server, race changed Crescenthorn into a goblin named Vektog. Here's the screenshot.

Right, what do we think of this, or does it change anything? Sadly yes, my friends site was a private server (derp) but if you don't believe me, I'm Vektog on The Venture Company server, guild Blacktooth Grin, you can check some of those names in the screenshot as well. Apologies. Aphetoros (talk) 23:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, GMs don't really count as valid sources. They don't have direct access to CDev, and are probably using the same sources we are and making an educated guess. He also says it's been 2-3 years between Cataclysm and the END of Wrath, directly contradicting prior statements that there's no "time skip" between the two expansions. Finally, a doctored screenshot of a GM ticket would be very easy to create. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:16, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * What statements have been contradicted? Aphetoros (talk) 20:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Statements that there's no "time skip" between the end of Wrath and the start of Cataclysm. This is also supported by quests suggesting that the Shattering was a recent occurrence, and in The Shattering where it happens within a matter of months (maybe less) of the Lich King's defeat. The GM, however, says that 2-3 years have passed since Wrath of the Lich King. Basically, from everything we know, there's ultimately two possibilities: either the war in Northrend took one year, or it took three. There are, unfortunately, contradictory sources for this, so Blizzard needs to give a definitive answer on the subject. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The Shattering
I don't from where, but I thought the Shattering took place 3 years after the fall of the Lich King, not 1 year. (Luxor (talk) 10:21, 28 February 2011 (UTC))


 * World of Warcraft is set 5 years after Warcraft III, and the Cataclysm occurs 5 years after that (based on in-game statements about Edwin VanCleef dying five years ago and Archimonde dying a decade ago). The campaign in Northrend took almost three years from start to finish, with Arthas dying a few months before the Cataclysm. Egrem (talk) 23:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Change Cataclysm's Date?
From what I've seen ingame, it seems that WC3 happened 10 years ago and Vanilla was 5 years ago. I haven't read the Shattering, so I don't know what it says in it. It just seems that Blizzard have changed their tactic of each expansion taking a year. Just wondered if it would be possible to change the year of Cataclysm from 33 to 35. Just thought I'd better ask for permission first. Noelznliam (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There are conflicting sources, both in-game and out, on whether the war in Northrend lasted three years or one. The Shattering implies (though doesn't explicitly state) that it lasted one. An NPC in Hyjal says Archimonde was defeated ten years ago, making it three. Anduin is 13 now, and was 10 in Classic, making it one. Edwin VanCleef died five years ago, making it three. In my opinion, we should leave it as-is until Blizzard directly answers the issue. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:58, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Right, okay. Someone's changed Cata's date to 33 or 35 anyway. Noelznliam (talk) 16:04, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

More Expansion Timegap Nonsense
So according to Tides of War, Anduin is 14 years old, and Kalecgos has been the aspect of magic for 'a few monts'. Furthermore, Jaina comments that it's been 'almost a year' since Garrosh was made Warchief and Deathwing came.

This in mind, I think this page needs updating to reflect that information. Anduin's age alone makes the vanilla-Cata jump just 3 years, and Cata-MoP appears to be just 1. --Aerandul (talk) 19:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I have no idea why someone was putting a year between Deathwing and Theramore, and then another year between Theramore and MoP. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Anduin's age is mostly derived from novels while the in-game text places the Cataclysm at five years following World of Warcraft. It would probably be safest to follow the in-game text or, at least, leave it be until it further citations are given for the opposing argument. Alternatively, we could acknowledge the issue by putting a note that states the timeline issue of Cataclysm and putting both possible dates. As the timeline is unofficial, it would not be too drastic a measure in my opinion. -- Mebahiah (talk) 11:30, 29 August, 2012 (UTC)
 * In other words, your argument is to forgo a solid date for a less solid one purely on the basis that one appears in-game? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I forgo nothing. I have already expressed my agreement with the date you've put and haven't edited the unofficial timeline in any major way outside of making the point that the in-game text points another way. Aside from that, said in-game text's informatio is no more or less important than the information in the novels and graphic novels and should still be considered. Now, please, can we drop this issue? This is becoming a far more personal matter than should be allowed on this wiki. --Mebahiah (talk) 21:34, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize for coming off more hostile than I should have. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:51, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * All well and good, my esteemed senior editor and player. -- Mebahiah (talk) 00:09, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Cataclysm's date: part deux
I don't care when the quest says VanCleef died; the most consistent chronometer we have is Anduin Wrynn's age, which rather firmly puts each expansion at a year after the previous one, Cataclysm included. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 10:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Calm down, I'm not trying to start an edit war. The timeline here is an issue and, really, there's no way to say who's right given that both arguments are supported by in-game and lore texts. What we can do here is reach a compromise. -- Mebahiah (talk) 11:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Your "compromise" seems to be to change it back to a gap that doesn't fit with the most solid piece of lore we have, though. Anduin's age is a very, very accurate chronometer by which we can measure the timeline, because it's the only thing that's internally consistent. Another piece of evidence: the Shaman manga says, in its text, that it takes place in the year 27. It involves events that occur almost very shortly before the Cataclysm. Ergo, Cataclysm should take place in Year 28. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:14, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I apologize for changing it back, I should have put both dates when I put the explanation of the discrepancy on the top of the page. However, it is still unfair of either of us to believe that our way is the "best" fit in the timeline. The compromise I propose is putting both possible dates instead of putting one as absolute because this is an unofficial, fan-made timeline and neither the novels and manga to which you refer or the in-game quests to which I refer should be ignored when making the edit. That said, I do lean more upon your version (Cataclysm is the year after Wrath) due to the fact that a major gap between the Ruby Sanctum and the beginning of Cataclysm is... odd, to say the least. That being said, both points are backed by lore and neither should be discounted based on personal preference. -- Mebahiah (talk) 21:14, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

No year gap between First War and Second War
Proposal: Move "Warcraft: Orcs & Humans ends" to Year 5. Move "Cycle of Hatred (Past) ends", "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King begins»", and "The Alliance of Lordaeron" to Year 6.

Evidence: I think Tides of Darkness removes the previously-thought year gap between the First and Second Wars. When Lothar led the refugees from Stormwind across the Great Sea to Lordaeron, they sailed "for days" (p. 5). After reaching Southshore, they left for Capital City "a few short hours later" (p. 7). They would reach Capital City in "a few days, perhaps a week" (p. 8). Then we have an unknown gap between the time Lothar talks to Terenas and the time the Seven Kingdoms are gathered. When the kings gather, Lothar points out that he and Llane "had not seen the Horde itself until this past year." (p. 48) [Though we don't need to retcon the First War as only lasting a single year, since Lothar later distinguishes between "the orcs" and "the Horde itself" as different things (p. 49), so it's possible he was only counting the final year of the war as facing the Horde itself.] But anyway... after the kings gather, there are "two days" between that first meeting and the formation of the Alliance (p. 70). After that, time passes "for a week" (p. 113) plus "two days later" (p. 120) before the Battle of Hillsbrad and the beginning of the Second War. In summary, go back to Lothar's remark that Stormwind had only seen the Horde during the past year. From that time, it is only a week and four days before the Second War begins.

I would love to argue that this means the Second War lasted through the Years 5-6, instead of a single year. But since the last official timeline told us the Second War began in the Year 6 (and it never told us when the First War ended), it's safer to conclude the First War lasted a year longer than we thought. But before we do this, is there any strong evidence that there is supposed to be a year gap between the two wars, in current lore? -BaronGrackle (talk) 01:07, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Some time has passed, so I made the edit. My feelings won't be hurt if someone has contradictory information. -BaronGrackle (talk) 20:04, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

The Battle of Mount Hyjal
Given that the introduction for World of Warcraft places WoW as 4 years after Mount Hyjal and TheFargo's recent confirmation that the Battle for Mount Hyjal was closer to "seven years ago", is it not probable that the events of the Battle of Mount Hyjal and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne actually take place early in 21 years after the Dark Portal (ADP), not 20 ADP? It would match it up with "mortal races [banding] together against the might of the Burning Legion" and put Cataclysm precisely 7 years after the Battle for Mount Hyjal in the timeline.

I've no doubt, however, that Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos begins in 20 ADP, but the placement of Mount Hyjal and the beginning of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne has always seemed off to me. -- Mebahiah (talk) 10:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The RPG Dates
Since the RPG are non-canon, what should we do with the dates only stated there? For example, the date of Mythology of the Titans and the betrayal of Sargeras were dated in the RPG, and nowhere else. I would delete them, but I prefer to ask first. Maybe there are other options. --Cemotucu (talk) 02:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For now, probably just make sure they're properly sourced as having come from the RPG. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:20, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Pandarian Lore
Someone should probably add the things we have dates for. I'm not sure if they've given a date for Lei Shen's ascension to power or Liu Lang's departure from Pandaria, but those things might be worth mentioning as well. --ShaddaStarsong (talk) 08:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
 * -12,000 = Fall of the Mogu Empire
 * -10,000 = creation of the Sha. Pandaria hidden in mists by Shaohao

Warlords of Draenor's Alternative Timeline
While it is true that we are in 31 ADP during the Warlords of Draenor expansion, wouldn't the fact that we travel 35 years in the past send us to Year 4 BDP instead of 19 BDP, since it matches the calculation (31 ADP - 35 = -4 = 4 BDP) more properly while still corresponding to the new lore interfering with the events of Rise of the Horde? TheGim (talk) 02:30, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Two Years of Cataclysm
Metzen said DW death to the end of MoP is 1 year. Copeland confirmed from Metzen that Azeroth at the end of MoP is now year 31. That puts the end of Cata/start of MoP at year 30, as described in the UVG. So while Cata started in 28, its events took place over the course of 2 years. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:44, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I found another source indicating that it was about a year between the Cataclysm itself and Deathwing's demise, and added it in. That should make things a bit clearer. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:50, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The Sundering (Past) ends
Why is this under 9000 years ago? Sundering didn't last 1000 years.--Mordecay (talk) 15:15, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yea, The Sundering didn't last 1000 years. Appears person was trying to line it up with the -9000 given for the unaltered timeline given on the official site. But The Sundering's events differ greatly from how things went originally without time travel. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, re-read the last chapters and in the novel, creation AND the blessing occurred shortly after the sundering of the world and there was no gap of 1000 years. Do we mention this on the page that wota trilogy changed that? --Mordecay (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Timeline B - how do we handle it?
Since we already know about the alternate timeline existing prior to Garrosh's arrival, and some of the events happening a bit differently than in the prime timeline, how should we handle it?

A new section, or a shared section with 31 ADP, with all previous events documented in its respective years marked with alternate timeline note, or maybe something else?

Discuss.

09:39, 23 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Considering how little there is of pre-Garrosh Timeline B, I think how it is now with the pointer is fine. Most everything will be concurrent with the expansion and "year 31 Azeroth". --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what the 2 years building of the Iron Horde army means. We know that Garrosh's arrival and the drinking happened both in year -4 on AU Draenor. The technology is already in use when the drinking happens. So is that picture trying to say that from the drinking (or arrival) passed 2 years and then AU Draenor is connected to MU Azeroth? If so, wouldn't Azeroth's years move on too? I have been under the impression that we are in Draenor's -4 year. --Mordecay (talk) 23:03, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


 * It's more about the age of the machines when we see them in WoD. They are 2 years old at most, as indicated in the citation.
 * The opening scene with the demon blood in the cinematic only takes place a few months after Garrosh arrived and convinced Grom to turn against Gul'dan, as indicated in the short story. There's really just that one Iron Star and a few catapults, we don't really see any signs of the massive industrialization here.
 * The now of year 31 is just the time-period the Vision of Time shards are resonating with. Any passage of time before the DP was opened and made the connection doesn't really matter.
 * It's also possible that Blizzard scrapped that 2-year-old-army idea since BlizzCon. But I haven't seen anything to indicate this. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 23:32, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

-19
Rise of the Horde (Past) ends - what exactly this refers to? The past of RotH is meant to be Argus, no?--Mordecay (talk) 19:11, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it means Durotan's childhood. ReignTG (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Yea, I think so too. Grom was born in Year -26 and is only a few years older than Durotan. The Draenor "past" part has Durotan almost 12 years old. That part of the novel should be around -10ish. Then it jumps a few years for Drakka to become of age on their courtship hunt (A Warrior Made shows child-Durotan holding newborn-Drakka). It then jumps a few more years again before Ner'zhul is visited by KJ and calls all the clans together; Kashur and Garad died during the intervening time.
 * Going by the time references in Rise of the Horde the war started around Year -3. It was a few months before Kil'jaeden began teaching Gul'dan to be a warlock. When presenting the demon blood, Gul'dan says they had advanced further in the last 2 years than they had in 2 centuries due to Kil'jaeden. Then 6 months later, the DP was opened. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:40, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Retcons retcons retcons (not really)
I almost fell from chair reading this!

Ten years passed after the fall of Archimonde in Kalimdor, and the Horde, led by Warchief Thrall, expanded its ranks and embraced the Forsaken as allies. (Annual 2015)

Ten years?!

Archimonde's fall year - 21. World of Warcraft - year 31.

I can't even!--Mordecay (talk) 10:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't pay much attention to that, not after the UVG was published and Loreology confirmed it depicted the official timeline of events. Though maybe getting a confirmation wouldn't hurt. Cemotucu (talk contribs) 15:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Times change :P Even their internal timeline (if it is really that in UVG) can change considering there is a year gap between the two books, no? Well, hope Micky will respond. --Mordecay (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hopefully! Cemotucu (talk contribs) 15:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

How Long Did Pandaria Last?
Currently this page states it was about a year, but I think it was much longer than that. As Nathreim mentioned in a thread in the Story Forum, according to Shadows of the Horde, we landed in Pandaria sometime in winter. Vol'jin and the Daggers in the Dark Scenario occurred during spring, and Vol'jin wasn't even talking nor recovering until mid summer. This was all well before the Throne of Thunder, the Rebellion and the Siege of Orgrimmar. Do we have any sources confirming that Pandaria was a year long?

I'll also add that all of the Sean Copeland twitter links I've run across lead to a dead end in Twitter. I don't think any of those links work. Cannibeans (talk) 00:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Metzen said DW death to end of Pandaria was a year. This was then re-affirmed from Metzen more recently via Loreology. Loreology's tweet links don't work anymore because he deleted his account. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 02:45, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Battle for Light's Hope Chapel
Reading The Path of Redemption (Updated version) got me thinking... When the Scarlets left EK, they built New Hearthglen and Barean Westwind returned to the town... and he told Abbendis that "The Alliance and the Horde were going to come en masse in response to a great plague that the Lich King was about to unleash upon them." Is that sentence trying to say that the fall of the Scarlet Enclave and attack on the Light Chapel happened before the plague hit the capital cities?? --Mordecay (talk) 20:19, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure the "great plague" is referring to the WotLK Scourge invasion, not the actual 3rd War Plague of Undeath. The WotLK invasion is what caused the Horde and Alliance to invade Northrend en masse. Neither the 3rd War nor the Vanilla Scourge attacks prompted that kind of response. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:47, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hmm... where do you see the Third War in this?? I'm asking about the plague in the capital cities (OG/SW) during the event second Scourge Invasion (also shown in The Comic) - if that one may have happened after the fall of the Scarlet Enclave (DK starting quest-line) because of that sentence.--Mordecay (talk) 20:58, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Mythos section
Shouldn't it be split? "Mythos" implies it being a false/fantasy idea often beheld of by individual cultures. And most of the things listed under the "mythos" section is well... not false, nor are they fantasies. WarGodZajru (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The term comes from the History of Warcraft series of blurbs.-- 01:17, 13 April 2017 (UTC)


 * It's also the first chapter of Chronicle Volume 1. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Welp, that sucks.
 * Someone needs a lesson in English.... ;_; WarGodZajru (talk) 01:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Stormwind Falls
Chronicle 2, pg. 129-138, places the full destruction of Stormwind in the year 3. This contradicts many other sources but is the most recent date we've received and since the new lore trumps the old, how should we proceed and cleaning that section up? -Cannibeans (talk) 08:56, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Any ideas? -Cannibeans (talk) 15:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The way the book phrases it, the full destruction of Stormwind happens in the end of year 3, when before sources placed it during year 4. Doesn't make much of a difference... Besides the First War, Stormwind (kingdom), Stormwind City, Anduin Lothar, Karazhan, Llane Wrynn I, Garona Halforcen, Medivh, Khadgar pages, what would need an urgent update? Xporc (talk) 15:58, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * UVG and Copeland all said SW fell in Year 5. If the intent of this page is to be the most correct timeline we have, why wouldn't we update it to reflect all the page's events in years 4 and 5 to be in year 3 instead? -Cannibeans (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Legion & WotLK
So it is generally accepted that Legion is Year 32 based on the Magni comic's four years reference. A Pact of Necessity says that 4 years passed since Frostmourne was destroyed. So do we put LK's death to year 28 as well? Basically, it would put the finale of WotLK from year 27 to 28, similarly as the Cataclysm finale is in Year 29 and not just 28 as the rest of Cata. It would retcon UVG which says that LK's defeat was in 27, tho. --Mordecay (talk) 23:06, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Chronicles 3 will fix it :D Xporc (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, right! It is bound to have years written like the second Chronicle had. --Mordecay (talk) 23:19, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Darkspear exile
Yes, they remember Mai'Zoth, but they could move out of Stranglethorn at any point during or after the First War (if he's an original rare two-headed ogre), and more speculatively even after the Second War, if the ogre was ogre-mage created by Gul'dan. --Mordecay (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hm, not sure if a "0-9 (approx.)" would look good to place somewhere, but it would be the most "accurate" way to do it due to the limited information. So, no chance an ogre would be there before year 0 and it would've taken probably a couple of years for a created one to have made their way down from Quel'Thalas to STV. –WarGodZajru (talk) 21:04, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Deadwind Pass history/Sataiel/Ulthalesh
Would it be relevant to add the story of Sataiel, how she killed all the troll inhabitants of Deadwind Pass along with all animals and plants, drained their energy and made the pass how it is today, and then got killed by Magna Scavell? I guess finding an approximate date would be tough since we don't know when Scavell ascended to the Guardian of Tirisfal position though.-- K IROCHI  ) 16:36, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * sure Xporc (talk) 08:12, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Name
How about moving Timeline to Timeline (disambiguation) and this page to just Timeline, since it's entirely made up of official information? Xporc (talk) 13:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * :ok_hand: --Ryon21 (talk) 13:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Aye since the page's intro explains what the page is, making "(unofficial)" a bit redundant. -- 14:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Fine by me! PeterWind (talk) 14:45, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the closest thing the Warcraft universe has to a consistent timeline, and it is one of our most valued treasures in terms of accuracy and usefulness. It is more precise than Chronicles even.-- K IROCHI  ) 16:28, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed.
 * The term "unofficial" hurts the credibility of this article and has led many people to believe this page was fan-made, as repeatedly seen on various forums or website, when this is a compilation of official sources.
 * Other Wowpedia articles don't have the term "unofficial" in their title, we tend to disambig by source instead (such as Timeline (Ultimate Visual Guide)). -- — MyMindWontQuiet 11:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So, anyone against moving these pages? Thankfully there seems not to be many links, so it shouldn't be a problem. --Ryon21 (talk) 13:21, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Move done. Some of the links still need a fix I think. --Ryon21 (talk) 01:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

eldre'thalas
Why is it not displayed at year 25 that the horde raided it? It's so fucking annoying
 * Because too much things to update and not enough editors, yo Xporc (talk) 13:02, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If it's so annoying update it yourself. --Ryon21 (talk) 14:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

original Orcs and Humans timeline
I remember seeing somewhere the claim that the portal had originally been opened ~20 years prior to the start of the 1st game (allowing the at-first-unspecified orc/human parents of Garona to meet and have her be mature during the game) but then later the timeline got changed.

Here is what I could find from Warcraft:_Orcs_%26_Humans_manual
 * Garona "Many years passed as the Warlocks sought to unlock the mysteries of this tiny rift."
 * Garona "It has been some fifteen years since this costly decision altered the course of our destiny."
 * 577 Medivh returns to mess with the Age of Ascension ceremony of Llane, then over next 6 years there's crop failures
 * 583 Stormwind keep attacked by "hideous creatures"
 * 584 surviving creatures identify selves as orcs to Llane, who is 20 years old (so AOA must be 13 years)
 * 593 "nearly ten years of skirmishes"

If Garona is saying 15 yet it's less than 10, I'm thinking she might be counting from 577-593 (~14) because prior to the actual decade of skirmishes was the "many years" warlocks dealt with the "tiny rift" where worlds were connected (Draenor's blight infects Azeroth environment) but it wasn't large enough for large beings to get through.

Does anyone know where which source later changed it to merely a months-gap? Like the IRL timeline of when the timeline was changed. Tycio (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Definitely at least Warcraft 3. Possibly later. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The second part of this page has year 583 for Medivh opening the Dark Portal as well as the beginning of the First War, which should be based on Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness manual. --Morderi (talk) 21:12, 22 February 2021 (UTC)