Talk:Nefarian

Top Kills

 * 1 Drama - Kor'gath (US) http://www.dramaonline.net/
 * 2 Inner Sanctum - Silvermoon (EU) http://www.innersanctum.eu/

Random Comment
it's not 20 of each color --Compnewb 05:05, 12 February 2006

Phase 2
Wild Polymorph has no range limitation, and moving does not prevent you from casting it on anyone in the encounter. --Bwmathis 13:39, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


 * What if, when a mage is wild polymorphed, that you do not clense mages of the polymorph until the callout is over? Wouldn't this prevent them casting Polymorph or not?--Cigawoot 14:00, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Phase 3
Can someone please confirm if Stratholme Holy Water helps in phase 3? --Kiltek 06:46, 24 May 2006
 * Yes, indeed it does. As the article says, Paladins are also invaluable, if they all cast Holy Wrath the problem evaporates rather quickly. Greggor 09:43, 31 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Phase 3 is so incredibly easy if you have paladins. Build Mage-Paladin pairs, the paladin has to use blessing of protection on his mage when the construct zerg spawns (mages begin to AoE immediatly), then divine-shield yourself, then fire off holy wrath, then (if any constructs are still alive) throw your stratholme water. This order ensures that both the mage and the paladin will survive. For the rest, warriors chain AoE taunt. MT uses shield wall to prevent from being healed while the constructs spawn, that will ensure that no construct will run for the healers.--Thundor 09:30, 10 August 2006 (EDT)

Battle Shout vs Demoralising Shout
There is only one "AOE" effect able to generate very mild aggro - it's Demoralising Shout, not Battle Shout (which is just a Buff for warrior and his party) - anyone can explain if strategy describing Battle Shout as aggro generator is not mistake?
 * No, buffing does generate threat, and the threat generated is dependent on the number of targets buffed. The article is correct to state that a warrior constantly rebuffing his group with Battle Shout will generate steady threat. Eorl 04:04, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
 * Does the buff actually work if the targets already have the buff though ? or do they need to remove it from themselves as much as possible? if there is 1 warrior, with 4 rogues + 4 pets, then that's 8 buffs gained = lotsa aggro  10:36, 6 November 2006 (EST)
 * Yes, the buff works even if target already has the buffs. The methodology is to primarily use hunters or warlocks with pets on passive in the warriors group.  That is, 1 warrior, 4 hunter/locks with pets on passive.  The hunters and locks also need to be in range to receive the buff.  Hunters should shoot at the mobs at the far end as near ones will probably too close to shoot, and/or contribute to the AE with volley. Rodanu 20:03, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Battle Shout
My guild used the Battle Shout method exclusively before the patch and couldn't do so after 2.0.1 went live; we had to switch to the two-doorway method. If someone else can confirm, that info can probably be stripped from the page. -- Xelcyon 23:29, 14 December 2006 (EST)

That's what it seems like, I'll remove it. --Cigawoot 23:57, 14 December 2006 (EST)

Another Random Comment
I think the very first sentence can be stripped from the article, or at least change it so it speaks of Nefarian and not Deathwing. Just wanted to say something about it. --Lodra 21:02, January 28, 2007 (EDT)


 * A) New discussion topics at the end of the article.
 * 2) Comment is not random, it has a purpose
 * Zed) The sentence to which you are referring (or at least, the one I think you're referring to, correct me if I'm wrong) at the beginning of "Background", introduces the remainder of the topic; it sets him up with Deathwing because Nefarian himself comes from Deathwing. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 00:26, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Yet another random comment
What in Azeroths name is an "Assist Train"? Shouldn't this be linked and explained somewhere? - Flyonthewall 06:32, 26 February 2007 (EST)
 * I'm not sure I could tell you, but I've heard the term before. So yes, it probably should have a page for itself... :O--Sky 06:35, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Dead
It seems that with the coming of the latest patch Nefarian became dead. Lady Sinestra, a black dragon says in the game:

"You have no doubt heard about Nefarian's failures on Azeroth... While he has fallen, the experiment continues. My master... He continues the work that his progeny began."

Regards, --Theron the Just 21:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What about the manual? It already confirmed that he was challenged too...


 * "Within Blackrock Spire the legacy of the black dragon Deathwing continued to unfold as Nefarian followed in his father's contemptible footsteps. Nefarian worked toward replenishing the black dragonflight. To that end, he created chromatic dragons: unspeakable hybrids of both red and black dragons...The heroes of the world have bravely faced these challenges and more, struggling to ensure the continued survival of their races."-PG 6

Baggins 21:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

None of those lines implies that he would have died. Same cannot be said about Lady Sinestra's lines, so it seems that he is now dead. Regards, --Theron the Just 21:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

...or she believes he has died. But considering how villains tend to be able to escape seeming death and defeat, I wouldn't be completely sure of his demise.Baggins 21:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

He most likely is dead for good. This "master" of Lady Sinestra seems to be a very high ranking member of the Black Dragonflight, possibly even Deathwing himself, and is it unlike that he/she would make mistakes like this. --Theron the Just 22:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Its "speculation" due way we admins set the policy, due to the fact that there are two possible assumptions that he is dead, or that the black dragon flight think he is dead. Neither have 100% been confirmed.Baggins 22:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * As Baggins says, speculation means anything that we do not know for certain. One character's offhand, unclear statement does not certainty make. I would love to get Blizzard's view on this. Any Encyclopedia update? 22:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I say that Nefarian, being the son of ONE OF THE FREAKIN' DRAGON ASPECTS could have died a lil' bit more dramatically (although we never really heard of him up until WoW) I say it's a better death than "accidentaly burning his finger and forgetting to put neosporin on it and dying from the infection" or "having a heatstroke". I think I've made my point (If there is one ). -Mrscribbles .
 * Quick-and-easy Bookkeeping solution: His status is Killable unless his instance is removed from the game, or until the next released game, novel or encyclopedia entry, or other incontrovertable evidence. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:41, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ. Being possibly dead lorewise doesn't mean that the instance (or Nefarian) has to be removed, that would not make sense at all. *scratches head* The Avatar of Hakkar has been defeated lorewise in the Temple of Atal'Hakkar, confirmed by RPG, but the boss is still there. See the point? No one is saying that it would be certain fact, but as even the Black Dragonflight at least seems to presume that he is dead, there is room for the two small words, "Dead (Presumed)". Regards, --Theron the Just 13:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I like to think of the level order of quests as a lore "timeline", with the things you can do at 60 coming cronologicly before 70 events/quests.-- 19:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Status will remain "Killable." There is enough evidence to warrant a mention in the article body. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Originally, I thought the comment made by Sinestra is intentionally written to be ambiguous about whether he is dead or not, kind of like when Illidan fell to Arthas at the end of Frozen Throne. It can be mean they presume he is dead or merely defeated, having lost his army and power. Except that since only the heroes of the alliance and horde has fought him since the beginning of wow, and we saw him die in the battle (taking his head with us), it might be safe to assume he is dead. Raze 05:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Strangly though being beheaded doesn't necessarily mean you can't be brought back, :p.Baggins 05:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * He is definitely confirmed dead, especially after the novel "Night of the Dragon". Sinestra mentions his death and failure more than once in the novel. Neltharion (talk) 02:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Blackwing and Nefarion as names
I don't believe he was ever referred to by either of those names, and would like to delete the section. Can anyone show some proof otherwise? Blackwing Lair doesn't imply that it is his name either. Raze 05:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * He was in fact refered to as Blackwing in one of the RPGs. i myself once thought the same, that blackwing was nothing more than the name of the lair, but did a little research and blackwing turned out to be his "nickname". looking for the page number right now.Warthok 06:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * found it. pg 167 HPG. "Rend has now pledged his service to Lord Victor Nefarius - also known as Nefarian, or Blackwing, the son of Deathwing - and he resides in the clan's namesake fortress of Blackrock Spire." btw blizz needs to stop switching vowels out on the dragons names. Nefarian was called Nefarion a third of the time and Nefarius another third. not to meantion soridormi/saridormi, tyrygosa/tyrigosa, and tyranastrasz/tyranistrasz...sry just venting.Warthok 07:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I appreciate it. I wonder if it is even intentional, probably won't matter to the characters I suppose. Raze 07:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Blacking as a nickname is intentional. Nefarion vs. Nefarian, is probably a typographical error.Baggins 07:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Age

 * Considering that he's Neltharion's eldest son, I'm guessing that Nefarian is over ten thousand years old. But... could it be Neltharion's current heir, having lost a number beforehand? In which case, is there anything in the RPGs or otherwise which gives a hint at his age? -- 22:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Warlock?
I'm not seeing where it says he's a warlock. Is it because he breathes shadowflame? He's not casting it as a spell. Other black dragons can breathe shadowflame too, even battle pets. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 04:09, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought the whole point about removing "Warlock" from Mannoroth was because we can't make these kinds of assumptions based on their abilities lists. And besides, Nefarian isn't casting shadowflame as a spell, he's breathing it as just part of his dragonbreath. A trait he shares with other dragons. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:43, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I concede, Mannoroth was a Warlock, I haven't touched that page to edit it, still.....even lesser demons can cast Fel spells, like Succubi, and I can not see them as being Warlocks, or commanders of the Burning Legion. Still, Warlocks and Necromancers appear to be synonymous terms, they both are capable of reanimating the dead and using Fel magic to drain life. If Warlocks use Shadowflame and if Nefarian is a Necromancer because he used Shadowflame then Warlocks are Necromancers. There is at least one Shadowflame spell he used I believe, which is the Shadowblaze Spark. And he also uses an ability called Dominion or something, and the aim of Warlocks is dominance. :)


 * Really, a confirmation from Loreology or whoever would be cool but I can hardly understand how a dragon can be a warlock or a necromancer. In humanoid form, maybe but not a dragon. Using a warlock ability? Well as Aqua pointed out it's his breath so...
 * Is it known that Mannoroth is a spell (fel) caster but does it really makes him a warlock now?
 * Oh and necromancers and warlocks are not the same. May be similar or something but not the same. --Mordecay (talk) 20:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Firstly, Dragons can perform magic in their dragon form, not only their "humanoid" form. And I already provided an instance where Nefarian used a spell, creating a Shadowblaze Spark, if Nefarian didn't use any spells then why are we labeling him as a Necromancer?


 * Secondly, Warlocks are the same thing as Necromancers, what facts are you presenting that proves they are not the same? Justin Parker's statement implies they are different, but he isn't stating why. Both Warlocks and Necromancers can raise the dead, create Shadow Bolts, etc. Perhaps Warlocks can do whatever a Necromancer can do and vice-versa but their goals are different? That's the only logical explanation as to why they are different.


 * Lastly, Mannoroth used Fel spells. According to the UVG Warlocks seek to understand Fel-based magics, however, demons such as Doomguards, Terrorguards, and Succubi use Fel spells and are described as spellcasters, implying they are also Warlocks, implying that mortal Warlocks such as ourselves can control immortal Demon Warlocks, which makes me question if someone can be a Warlock just by using Fel spells.

Nefarian performed undead experiments in BWD, culminating in his masterpiece: resurrecting Onyxia as an undead dragon. Raising an undead dragon has been shown to require necromantic skill on par with the LK or several Scourge necromancers working in tandem. I didn't base it on him animating skeletons during certain encounters. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 04:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think raising 1 dragon makes him a Necromancer though. Deathwing resurrected Nefarian as an undead dragon, and Nefarian is a dragon like Onyxia.....so clearly Deathwing had necromantic skills on part with several Scourge Necromancers working in tandem.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 05:17, 26 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * Raising Onyxia wasn't his only feat, that was just his crowning achievement. He experimented with undeath during his time in BWD. He even created Maloriak by fusing Malory with the corpse of a dragonspawn.
 * We can't safely assume that shadowflame has the inherent ability of raising skeletons because nowhere else has this been shown to be the case. It's more likely that in his experimentation, Nef created skeletons that could be powered by his shadowflame.
 * And I did consider that part about Deathwing reanimating Nef, but we don't know how that worked or where he gained that power (probably Old Gods). Whereas Nef, is expressly described as experimenting with undeath and creating undead creatures by his own efforts. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 05:25, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes we can safely assume that Shadowflame has the inherent ability to raise skeletons. Fel has been shown to have the innate ability to raise the dead and since Shadowflame combines Fel with shadow it would definitely make sense that Shadowflame has the inherent ability to raise the dead, so it's not "more likely" that Nefarian altered the skeletons to react specially to his Shadowflame breath. Nefarian wasn't shown dabbling in Necromancy in BWL and he was creating Bone Golems and used the ability Shadow Flame in that instance. Dave Kosak stated Shadowflame is likely Fel infused with Shadow and undead have been shown to be powered up Fel energies, ex: Gul'dan's Death KnightsVisionOfPerfection (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * Except as you've noted, shadowflame is used in various places, by various people/creatures. Nowhere else has it been known to reanimate the dead. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:01, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, we are shown Nefarian using the Shadow Flame ability and reanimating bones in BWL. In order for the Shadowflame to reanimate the skeletons they must be exposed to the Shadowflame obviously. Necromancer NPC's use Shadowflame, and Necromancers raise the dead, and although only Nefarian and Onyxia were the only ones shown using Shadowflame to reanimate skeletons, it is likely that if those various NPC's using Shadowflame used Shadowflame on skeletons instead of living targets it would reanimate them. I don't think Nefarian was studying/experimenting with Necromancy extensively in BWL, and it seems the undead he created during BWL came from the Dragonkin the adventurers slain.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * In BWL, Nef fills the whole room with shadowflame in phase 2 after you kill 42 Drakonids. But the Bone Constructs don't come out of their corpses until phase 3. It's not the shadowflame that animates them. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:26, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps.....time to go to the Lore Historians!!VisionOfPerfection (talk) 13:53, 26 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * Loreology stated that it does seem the case that Nefarian's Shadowflame naturally reanimates the dead, but he also said its likely he did additional "tinkering" prior to reanimating his sis. I wonder what he means by "tinkering" though. Did he produce a chemical that made his sister susceptible to reanimation since she is a dragon and requires more umph to raise her? Was he "tinkering" with his sister's body, only making modifications to his sister's form to make her more powerful when raise. Etc.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

#Black Dragons, #demonic, #Shadowflame, #Necromancer
Dave Kosak says Shadowflame is likely Fel magic infused with Shadow, and it appears that Black Dragons have the innate ability to breath Shadowflame without casting a spell, which makes me wonder, are black dragons demonic because they can breath fire that is demonic and void? Should they be viewed as demonic creatures? Nefarian's Shadowflame breath naturally reanimates the bones, so wouldn't all Black Dragons that use Shadowflame be considered Necromancers?VisionOfPerfection (talk)VisionOfPerfection