User talk:Arrothin/Archive1

House of Wrynn
Hi Warthok, and welcome to WoWWiki. Nice work on the Wrynn articles. I just had a question about the Landam Wrynn II article. The description of him currently in the article conflicts with the source provided, Chronicles of the War in Azeroth, which says that the events described took place during the reign of his son Wrynn III. Do you have a source that you are working from for Landam Wrynn's biography? --Aeleas 02:42, 29 April 2006 (EDT)

yes. as you may know from studying the lore, many of the old articles provided by blizzard (particularly those of warcraft 1 and 2) are outdated. warcraft 1 manual refers to priests as agents of God, and some events which are stated to occour over 30 years in Chronicles of the War in Azeroth have been revised to have happened in 1 year (time from which portal opened to the fall of stormwind). the info involvling Landom Wyrnn comes from the new blizzard approved Pocketbook "Cycle of Hatred". Aegwyn states she visits King Landom Wyrnn's court to find Nielas Aran. since we know king wyrnn the III's first name is Adamant from the WoW rpgs (ill provide the exact quote and page as soon as i can) it only makes sense to assume Landam is the 2nd as its highly unlikely 2 kings passed away in the time medivh grew to teenagehood.

basicly in the revised timeline. Landam is king when Medivh is concieved, Adamant when the portal is open, and Llane when stormwind is razed. quite honestly the old matierial should be taken as a rough overview. the events still occuored in roughly the same way but the specifics are quite off, especial with warcraft I which wasnt created by Metzen.


 * Thanks, I'll update the articles with that information. Is Landen Wrynn referred to explicitly as Landen Wrynn II in any official sources?  If not, his article shouldn't include the number.  Also, do the the numbers for Llane Wrynn IV, Varian Wrynn V, and Anduin Wrynn VI all come from an RPG book? --Aeleas 12:46, 29 April 2006 (EDT)

no the number 2 is never used. however we know adamant is llanes father who is as you know the III. llane is refered to as the IV. so its just common sense that varien is the 5th, auduin the 6th and Landen the 2nd.


 * That may be, but it's speculation. It's also possible that Adamant was the third king of Stormwind by that name, and Llane was the fourth "King Llane".  Or the number system could have fallen out of use.  Biography articles should be listed under the full name as it appears in official sources.--Aeleas 12:44, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

General Colbatann
See wowhead name. The correct name is the above, not your addition. ;). I am reverting your changes. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * my mistake. it seems the rpg has it spelled Cobaltann instead of Colbatann. im assuming the intended name was cobaltann as cobalt is a shade of blue while colbat means nothing as far as im aware. not sure what to do in this situation.
 * Don't worry about it. WoW devs probably deliberately misspelled it, and then the RPG 'corrected' the spelling. All reverted now --Sky (t · c · w) 06:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * cool. ty for yoyr help

Someone likes dragons:) (Keilden 06:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
 * hehe yes. that and doing research. got bored and figured id go through the rpgs, the mmo, and novels and make sure every wyrm, drake, and whelp has a page. Warthok 08:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Regarding shortening General Colbatann page, I believe that those was two different citations from two sources marked by tags ( and ). Your edit broke citation and messed up tags making it no longer match original and attributing it to wrong source. Therefore I think you should revert it. --Rowaasr13 07:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I actualy checked the source first. the pages refrenced in the citation i deleted were about the topic of azjol-nerub and baelgun. did not meantion a single piece of information involving colbatann, mazthoril, or the blue flight. chances are someone was doing a lot of edits, copied another citation from another page and forgot to change the page numbers to 24&25 instead of 88&89. if youll notice most of the info in both paragraphs was nearly idenitical.Warthok 07:59, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point. --Rowaasr13 08:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm old discussion but I think I should probably clarify. The spelling "Cobaltann" actually predates World of Warcraft to about the time of the release of The Frozen Throne, in the very first Warcraft RPG book. It was later reused in Lands of Mystery. ...and yes the spelling is different in-game.Baggins (talk) 06:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Dragon whelp, not Dragon Whelp
I undid your change of the article names. See Wowpedia:Naming policy. -- 06:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * my apologies Warthok 08:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You're doing some nice work on the dragonkin otherwise. It's been needing a bit of filling. -- 08:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Onyxia'slair.jpg
Maybe you might want to use Image:Onyxia2.jpg instead. If so, I'd suggest deleting the old one. :) --Sky (t · c · w) 03:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Constant stream of minor edits
Keep uo the good work! -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

ty. just trying to add some uniformity to the dragon section them im moving onto demons.Warthok 15:37, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Red Dragonflight
I'm personally surprised no-one thought of it earlier. Do you think it would be a good idea to add all the racial links, as well as the other named mobs. I'm coming to you since you're the dragon person, now. :P --Sky (t · c · w) 19:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * yes eventualy im gonna be adding drakes whelps etc... as well as home locations like the Nexus, eye of ysera etc...maybe important events if i can find any worth meantioning. still not sure how im gonna do it all exactly. but i saw the new templates going up yesterday and i really liked what i saw.Warthok 19:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

preview button
You might want to use the "show preview" button- it will let you see how your edits look before they're actually made, thereby preventing unneeded edits. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Dragonflight pics
I like the dragonflight pics you made and put into the respective infoboxes. Maybe you could make similar ones for the Netherwing and Infinite flights? -- 10:16, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * good idea. i just need to get the latest version of model viewer and i'll get on that.Warthok 10:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks awesome man :) -- 18:07, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I really liked the way the Infinite one came out. Its easier to position them now. the netherwing one i wasnt thrilled about, mostly because the models don't really look as if they belong together. i might end up redoing that one.Warthok 19:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick note to say, great work on the dragonflight pages. You're a real asset :) 06:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * all finished. well never truely finished but the five main flights' pages now have some uniformity and hopefully a complete summary of their histories unless i missed some major events.Warthok 03:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Could you update Blue and Red Dragonflight's Image with the models of Alexstrasza and Malygos?(btw, great job i love those images:D)-- 15:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunetly model viewer does not yet work WotLK, (It did with earlier versions which is how i got keristraszas model in). It crashes.So until it's updated the pictures are stuck that way. 17:11, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I discovered a working fan-version at this link...it works for me.-- 20:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ty. Actualy did find that one just a short while ago. I'll be updating the images soon as i can tear myself away from WoW :). Theres just 2 or 3 models that continue to crash for me. 22:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * ye, i sometimes crash with taunka and some creature.m2 models, but it works verywell. Only, i would like the itemlist to be updated:P-- 12:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and an "Azure Dragonflight" Image or something similar would be nice as well... if it doesn't take too much time of course^^-- 12:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Red's up. The blue, which will include the azure models, i'm hoping to get done tomorrow...err should i say today, after i get some sleep. 12:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Great Work with the red one, can't wait to see the other one:D-- 10:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely happy with the red. i have a version of up to where i think it looked good saved and am going to redo it. The blue shortly after. its just hard to pull myself away from wrath. 11:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Krasus color image
Where was the source of the color version of Krasus image? It needs a link to the original artwork to prove if its official, and not some fan recolor. Otherwise the black and white version will have to be used in the infobox.Baggins 06:37, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The desktop wallpaper section at SotS. same with the cenarius and medivh ones i added. http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/downloads.html Warthok 07:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actualy if you click on the wallpapers, select view artwork and then go to the large size you get these, which i think look better: Warthok 08:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)




 * Aha, colours by René Koiter. Definately official :) 14:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * As long as they are official that's great. Just remember to add links to the picture pages in the future.Baggins 17:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

You're a good colorer.


 * Actualy the recolors are official. done by rene of twiscruiser it seems. found em on the sots site.Warthok 05:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Undead High Elf Icons
Thank you for making an icon for the undead Elves. Mr.X8 01:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey man. I changed your undead elf icon, and I hope you don't mind. I made one for the male using the ingame graphics, but that made a huge discrepancy in how the female and male icons looked, so I changed the female to correspond better to the male. See my chat -- 15:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw, no worries. looks much better. just made one myself because i didn't want to use the banshee for sylvannas but yours look much closer to both darkhan and sylvannas. not to meantion match the rest better.Warthok 08:25, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Heroes
While you go through the campaigns would you mind taking some high res screenshots of the static heroes in the games? Following what I did for Morbent Fell (I used the highest resolution possible in the game)?Baggins 20:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. I'll start where i am now and once im done ill go back and get the ones i already passed.Warthok 20:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, :).Baggins 20:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Quick question. Would you perfer the portrait as well, like i did with Jennalla Deemspring or just the unit screenshot like yours. Warthok 20:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You can add both only if they aren't combined into the same photo... That is rather poor quality, and we are trying to do away with that type of screenshot on most pages. Put whichever you think looks the best in the NPC box, and the other in the article or gallery section.Baggins 20:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

BTW, zoomed side view images are better than overhead images (try to get frontal shots if possible).Baggins 21:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Please avoid uploading embedded images (image within an image). Make sure each image is seperate. If there are too many images for a page use the gallery feature. Please.Baggins 23:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

GoGB
Yeah, I know. I changed the title to add a little bit of difference to the page. --Sky (talk | con | wh ) 07:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Doesn't make it correct though :P 12:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The name I changed it to was a correct interpretation, just not the name referenced by the books and such. Pft! He changed it back, anyway. --Sky (talk | con | wh ) 04:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Champions of Light
Thanks for editing! - Garridan

slash-edit count
I transcluded the template from the separate page, as I didn't want the bot editing my main page. User:Sky2042/editcount has the actual page. --Sky (t | c | w) 07:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah i c. thanks. 07:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Mobbox -> npcbox
While I appreciate your work with converting to , I could not help notice that you forgot changing the variables too. For example "type" in npcbox is Rare, Elite etc, while "type" in mobbox is the npc's type (Humanoid, Beast, Demon etc.). Also, "faction=Combat" need to be added too. Please edit the articles you've changed to reflect this. (I have already started from the back of your contributions) Read the template's documentation if you need help.-- 12:00, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Sargeras
Then source it, silly. Nice that you included it in the page history, but put it in the text instead using a citation :P. --Sky (t · c · w) 04:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Short Stories
You are aware that the links you added aren't really short stories in the clearest sense of the term, but more like encyclopedia articles right?Baggins 10:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It crossed my mind. 'Shamans and Paladins' and 'The Undead Plague' sort of read like short stories which is why i added them. Murlocs and Troll Compendium were clearly articles which is why i didn't. 'Story so far' and 'Rise of the Lich King' seemed more like summaries. War of the Shifting Sands however i think is very clearly a short story. 10:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Shamans and Paladins seems almost like a summary to me. More of an annal if anything (in the Tolkien sense of the term), a synopses of a tale that is meant to be found elsewhere in true prose form. If were adding annal-like materials then we'd probably have to add every single one off chapter many of the RPG books that covers a certain subject, :p... Undead Plague seems like an article about the plague, that is what the plague is, and how it was developed. An essay. War of the Shifting sands is definitely a short story, it is written in true prose form.--Baggins 10:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Already removed Undead Plague. The only hesitation as far as S&P goes is while Velen's Vision can be considered a summary of Unbroken, is there any place other than 'Stealing the Light' where the events it depicts are explained in more detail? 10:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * After looking it over i agree. S&P are short web descriptions (maybe a little more drawn out than others) rather than actual stories. Linking to them would be like linking to the hunter, warlock, etc... descriptions. 10:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I wasn't saying that the info could specifically be found in another source, but it definitely seems to be written in the annalistic style rather than a prose novel/short story. By my reference to Tolkien I meant he was big on writing annals with the intent of going back and writing prose stories based on them later on. Its those annals/essay forms that make up the majority of Silm, for example. Whereas Children of Hurin edited by his son, is the novel form of one stories told in the annals (created by combining the most completed drafts of the prose versions of the story, although it utilizes some of JRR's annal work as well to fill in the gaps). Although a better example would be "Of the Rings of Power" at the end of Silm being more of the annal version of The Lord of the Rings.Baggins 10:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense. I was really just worried about not having any easy-to-find direct link to important sources of lore that newbies may otherwise miss (Stealing the Light). But the article in question is about short stories, which StL is not, and the History of Warcraft article does contain a easily visible link to the the site. 10:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, glad we discussed here instead of an edit war heh heh. In anycase if you feel like you can add a link to the "history of Warcraft" in the introduction to the short stories article, go ahead, :). If you can relate the short stories to the overall history. I mean I'm certain short stories are part of the history in a round about way heh heh. At least the books they are found in are.Baggins 10:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Highborne article help
BTW, I sent a version to this message to Vorbis as well, but you might be able to help as well. While expansion to the article is one thing, the changes that were made to the article in my absence have two problems.

1. It copies warcraft encyclopedia text verbatim (we should be paraphrasing content to maintain our own style).

2. It stripped details and citations drawn from the RPG. Again, as you know we consider rpg citations to be valid as any other source, and citations can at least lead people back to the source to read for themselves a version of the account.

Do you think you could help fix it?

Thanks.-Baggins 17:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Adventure Hooks
I commented in Talk:Sunwell. But yes essentially adventure hooks shouldn't be removed as they represent a type of lore. Although they don't necessarily need to be in the main history list. It depends on the article.Baggins (talk) 09:21, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah completely forgot about asking. Thanks baggins. 06:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

New Dark Factions adventure hooks
Well while Lands of Conflict and Lands of Mystery took the route that adventure hooks within those two books were "rumors" & stories Brann has overheard during his adventures, Dark Factions gives the slight warning the new ones included in the new book. That they may be not be events that would ever show up in the World of Warcraft MMO. Now it doesn't flat out say they are events that can't happen or won't happen in lore or that they "aren't lore", just not likely to ever happen in the MMO. However oddly most of them are actually based on actual WoW quests or quest lines (WoW players would already know the "outcome"). A few are based on lore established in previous sources, and don't really add anything new. The blah blah Balnazzar is such and such in disquise blah blah, heroes go and defeat him blah blah kind of quests (this example actually is a combination of WoW quest, and established lore).

There are very few actual "new quests" in the adventure hooks. Some of these might actual give some insight into certain details. For example one hook discusses the possiblity of a underground tunnels being under the Master's Glaive. While I doubt we'll ever get a dungeon in the MMO under the glaive, the most important detail from it is that it calls the dead creature there a "forgotten one", connecting it to other old god "minions" or creatures.

Finally some of the hooks are fairly self contained plots that pretty much tell the start, the middle and the outcome. Just not how the adventurers get to those various parts. Often times these introduce a specific character name, that could be the basis of a unique standalone article surrounding that person (if the person wasn't previously introduced).

In anycase when referring to these new hooks I tend to treat these ideas as "rumors" hardly something set in stone, but just might have an inkling of insight into design processes. But its certainly more credible than some rumors people pull out of their asses because it can be cited... But like its said these things may never appear in the MMO (even if it seems many already did), they maybe just limited to the RPG lore itself. :p...--Baggins (talk) 07:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

When tagging for SD
Please do not remove the former content; rather, just add the sd tag in a newline at the top of the page. Much appreciated. --Sky (t · c · w) 19:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * My apoligies.I'll be sure to do that from now on. 23:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Inevitable Beyond the Dark Portal information updates
Generally speaking considering that there are inevitable differences between the novel and other accounts we are going to have to add the info but also show the differences in other info. For the case of Kilrogg for example I already started the seperation by splitting his info into subheadings, and new info can be added under one of those subheadings and the major difference I put under its own subheading with a WoW tag (I'm veing vague to avoid spoilers right now if you can't tell).

Now very large changes between say the expansion pack and the novel account, where the update would involve the entire artile to be rewritten, I'd suggest on the pages creating a new heading that chronicles the older account, while

Small differences (i.e less than a single paragraph, generally speaking where the difference can be summerized in perhaps a sentence) could have editorial notes interspersed throughout the main history or lore sections of the article. Something similar to History of the Horde if you need example. If a difference can be traced back and officially said to be a belief of individuals or characters then both accounts should be listed as alternative beliefs, pointing out who believed it or the general idea that it is believed by a group of people. An example would be Lothar's death accounts.

If you come accross older info that isn't cited and can't be cited (I.E. it was fan speculation to begin with) then that speculation should be eliminated and replaced with info derived from official accounts, following above criteria.

On a related note those Warcraft II battle pages should follow the game's battles as opposed to any battles mentioned in the novels themselves. They are specific mission articles. As for Tides of Darkness they can be updated with info from the narrative accounts in the WArcraft II strategy guide. As those represent novelized versions of those specific battles. BTW, I"m still trying to find out if the strategy guide for Beyond the Dark Portal was also written in novelized form.Baggins (talk) 20:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks Baggins. I forsaw problems coming soon as i started reading the novel. Honestly the events from warcraft 2, the expansion and the warcraft i manual have become so jumbled in my head i can;t remeber which source, said which clan did what. A few things solved themselves. I'm being vague as well but what i mean is some newer elements are clearly changes from the prior version but technicly speaking never contradict each other so it works out (i.e. warcraft iii never specialy said such events didnt happen). Others will be trickier but i figure phrasing like "it was believed", "it is/was unclear", etc.. along with citations to older sources should cover it. Long as everything official ever said on the matter gets into the articles.


 * BTW i have the Warcraft III battlenet edition stratagey guide that includes the BtDP matierial. The only non-stratagy matierial i see is the mission introductions that can be found verbatim in-game. 21:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Does your guide include the Milan and Utok Scratcher bits for Tides of DArkness sections? If so perhaps you could start helping with the Warcraft II Tides of Darkness mission pages.Baggins (talk) 22:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * yes it does. i'd be happy to lend a hand. 22:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * One final question aany narrative in the Orcs and Humans strat guide? BTW, if you haven't checked it out you might take a look at my sandbox page for a work in progress, User:Baggins/sandbox. Its an article that tries to show the order of the quests as close to chronologically as they are in the games, and where the two tides of darkness campaigns reference each other.Baggins (talk) 02:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't have the orcs and humans strat guide i'm afraid. Nice work though, nice way to refamiliarize myself w/o having to cheat code my way throufgh war2 for the seventeenth time. 04:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright I'm done converting the Warcraft II OSG info to the related battle pages. It might still be useful to adapt the non-novelized Beyond the Dark portal walkthrough into a blow by blow account of the battles. Also find out if there is in insight into the background, from the way the author described the maps.Baggins (talk) 07:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Bookkeepers
After a lengthy absence, the Wowpedia:Bookkeepers are returning. Our goals will be the same as the previous group, maintaining and improving the lore pages, et cetera. This is a formal invitation for you to join out the group. You'd be doing much the same as you've been doing, but you would also be involved in Bookkeeper projects and initiatives. Particularly in light of the Wrymrest Accord, I think we need an authority on the dragons, which is where you come in. What do you say? -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good Rage. I'm in. 16:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:DNP
Do not post speculation and unreleased content. Doing so is against WP:DNP and WP:LORE, and continuing to do so will cause your account to be blocked from editing. Thank you. -- 17:09, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * My apologies Pcj. I'm well aware of that rule just for some reason it didn't register with me that datamining has nothing to do with the NDA being lifted. 05:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Dragonflight capitalization
I've just noticed that some of the dragonflight pages are capitalized. I just wanted to confirm if "dragonflight" is proper noun, and thus capitalized, or if it is not capitalized in most uses(and should be treated like 'clan' or 'tribe' pages). I could check, but I'm busy working on something else.Baggins (talk) 09:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm looking through a few sources and no, it's not one. I'll change the main pages. 10:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll have to move blue and black. Something (Existing page) is preventing me from moving them. 10:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)