User talk:Howbizr/Archive 2

Facta Non Verba (Arathor) Wiki Assistance
We are deeply appreciative of your willingness to assist us as we work on creating our own Guild Website. Your ideas and coding corrections have taught us a great deal about HTML and wiki. We have been busy adding features to our site, most recently, the Flash and editcout extensions.

The current glitch that I am fighting is spacing in the "userbox" (We called it "drawbox") On WoWWiki, there is no spacing between lines, yet on our site, there is this funny half line between text. A sample page of our Fluff Templates demonstrates this issue well.

In your free time, if you could examine this issue and advise us what changes should be made to eliminate this pesky spacing, we would be, again, deeply in debt to you.

-- Ariule (talk) 19:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Things to learn
The things to learn for Wiki/hmtl coding only increase with the more you show us =]. The 100% line height corrected the weird spacing issues. Adjustment to the box height did not eliminate the spacing under the image so more investigations to follow. "valign" being difficult for some reason. I will examine Chrome and continue to learn Out thanks again for your willingness and ability to assist us. Ariule (talk) 00:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Formatting
* poke *

22:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey! At least you should give me some props. --06:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I'm gonna unleash hell with your new template on every boss/strat/dungeon/raid articles!
 * 18:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Sign issues

 * Your sign is placing a lot of code in the pages.
 * Go to Special:Preferences and put as a sign.
 * You will then be able to sign with the ~, adding date&time in the same time.
 * The two pages used to do this are User:Howbizr/sign and User:Howbizr/signX.
 * 22:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Why do you torture yourself to create a template to include the date in another template? :)
 * Do like I indicated you, and when you want to change your sign, just edit User:Howbizr/sign, or if you want to create a new, then put in User:Howbizr/signX.
 * 23:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I only made 1 page User:Jrooksjr/Sig1 and put in my preferences (1 page) not 2 -- I make changes to the Sig1 pages and it changes all (M o r p h  | C  | T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif 13:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Arena items
I am forced to hate you, now... Each season should have a template that can be included on each of the Season X pages that says...
 * This is a [Season X Arena Reward]
 * Removedfromgame if appropriate
 * Requires arena rating of X to acquire from vendors.

... assuming that the arena rating is constant between vendor types. I'm confident that early arena gear at least had differing levels of rating required.

You get my idea, in any case, yes? A single template, you could feed in the number, and it would check (season < N ? add removedfromgame). Multiple templates, you could add 'removed' to each individually. I'm guessing, though, folks would prefer the single template that "just knew".

... and it's all your fault! :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: Signature
My signature is a template found here -- but I use ~ to show it -- in my preferences i have   so that I can use the -- ~ to produce it  that is shorter than  and is easier to remember -- (M o r p h  | C  | T )  00:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ha ha -- the and < /nowiki>  tags was to make it show up on the txt for here --  in my preference it only has  it automaticaly puts  when using a template page for your signature. I cant remove that.


 * I just have to put if I want my signature to apear as (M o r p h  | C  | T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif          ~ to apear as (M o r p h  | C  | T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif 13:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)            or  to apear as 13:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)         and the squiglies are easier to remember then  and shorter as well -- (<span="help title=Morph><font color="#306ac9" face="Lucida Calligraphy">M o r p h  | <span=help title="Morph's Contribution(s) to this Wiki">C  | <span=help title="Morph's Discussion Page">T ) IconSmall_Gnome_Male.gifIconSmall_Draenei_Male.gif 13:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: Browser
I'm using Firefox 3.0.11. You could avoid using the divs by using  and. -- 17:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think I've fixed it now. Say if it still looks odd. -- 18:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh I see; it looks fine in Monobook but moves it down below the second table in Monaco. -- 18:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, looks fine to me. -- 20:16, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Underwater breathing
You made the cat (I think... you at least added to it)... but currently it is not part of the category tree. Where should it go? -- Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Heroic 25-man - Normal 10-man
We are probably heading toward a long debate, but 25-man and 10-man seem more easily identifiable than Heroic/Normal, mainly when it's "hard mode encounter"/"normal mode encounter".

23:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think there will be much debate - sinc in Patch 3.2.0 the WoW interface now shows these as Instace difficulty options (after rightclicking on your Portrait):


 * Dungeon Difficulty
 * 5 Player
 * 5 Player (Heroic)
 * Raid Difficulty
 * 10 Player
 * 25 Player
 * 10 Player (Heroic)
 * 25 Player (Heroic)
 * We will be using 5 Player, 10 Player, 25 Player and their Heroic counterpart when appropriate -- 14:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Template Patchbox
I was trying to make it so that Undocumented changes would always show up in the Related section - but I could not get it to work right on some of the other patches like Patch 3.1.1 - for some reason if I did not have Current set  then it would add a 3rd column and put  Patch Chronology in the 3rd column  (thus squeezing everything to the left 2 columns )  so I gave up and put it back to its original state - we will just have to manualy add  the Undocumented changes to the Template using |Related=  section as always I guess. -- 02:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh figures - I figured it out after posting - now so long as |Current= is set then Undocumented Changes will always display even as a red link if the page does not yet exist --  03:36, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * IF Gourra leaves the template as it stands - we have a link to Undocumented Changes if they exist under the |Prev and |Next  without shrinking the data together on smaller screens - just makes the template 1 line longer than before --  03:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I went back as far as Patch 2.4.3 looking to make sure all is ok - some had current set as well as a link to Undocumented Changes so I removed the extra link - Most all had a link to the Undocumented changes so it is accessable even if |Current is not set --  22:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Now I went back all the way to Patch 1.10.0 all have |Current= that needed it - but basicaly Pre Burning Crusades there were no Undocumented changes so |Current= is not needed for them  22:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd more believe that no undocumented changes got noticed, or that those patches do not currently have a corresponding "undocumented changes" page, rather than that they did not have any undocumented changes at all... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd go with that - I have looked in the past for any other sites with changes that were not listed - WoWWiki has more patch notes from pre BC than any other site so far - so unless someone knows of another site with hidden links to changes not documented in patch notes then we (WoWWiki) hav all the known patch notes documented or undocumented -- 00:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

BannerStub/PTR
I like the BannerStub/PTR, for when there are just 1, 2, 3 or so achievements but on Feats of Strength achievements where I had to move like 30 achievements over to there I think I will still stick to the larger Stub/PTR template to denote the Massess -- but thanks for showing me the smaller version. -- 02:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The small version can be nice for sections... I would rename it to PTR-section though, to make it known what its for, by name alone. 02:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That should be fine. I just don't like the word banner.. that makes me think of something that belongs at the top of the page. 02:28, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

LocationIcon
I do like that new template as well - and plan on using it as I can when appropriate - I have it on my watchlist - so I can see changes but also so I can remember it as well if I forget it -- 13:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I made a made a page Coords/dev that incorporates LocationIcon into Coords - and idea I had but will let you decide if it is good or not to do so
 * Here is a example using 10
 * Now with 10 . 9:18 AM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Page moves
Those page you specified Glory of the Raider (25 player)/patch3.1.0 was a transclude pages - if you go to the main page that used it -- the page looked fine so I did not think it needed to be fixed (only because it was a transcluded page - I did not think the name mattered as much) -- the page I moved had to be moved to make it fit with the new upcoming name changes to the achievement in Patch 3.2.0 - was going to happen eventualy -- 04:49, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean on the other pages that were also referencing that page. Achievement works fine with redirects but achievementlong does not, it just shows that the page it is refering to was redirected - sighs not good. Every achievement on the following pages:


 * Dungeons & Raids achievements/Lich King Raid (28 achievements), Dungeons & Raids achievements/Lich King Heroic Raid (28 achievements), Dungeons & Raids achievements/Secrets of Ulduar Raid (too many) and Dungeons & Raids achievements/Secrets of Ulduar Heroic Raid (too many)


 * have to be renamed (Moved) because of the addition of (10 player) to the end of all Wrath of the Lich King normal mode raids and because of the removal of Heroic: from the begining and the addition of (25 player) to the end of every Wrath of the Lich King heroic mode raids. - I am begining to HATE Patch 3.2.0!!! -- 05:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Also with page moves, if you're renaming a page because you used the wrong name, please mark the old page with sd at the bottom. If you're naming an existing page, after you have corrected all the links, then please also mark is for speedy delete. However, let's make an exception for the Patch 3.2.0 renames. Instead of marking those articles for speedy delete, just add this category (Category:Articles that were renamed in Patch 3.2.0). Then someone will run a bot to delete all those pages after the patch comes out. I think I cleaned up all the pages you missed but you're welcome to double check - you'll remember what you did better than me. 12:17 PM, 11 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Transclusion page
I would agree with you on any other page other than Transcluded pages that used the template patched that was the CHEAP way out of adding a update to the achievements that used that transclusion page -- so I copied the Transclusion to the individual pages to make the PROPER and then marked that page for deletion - the way they should have been done in the 1st place - it took me a whole 1 minute to copy / paste the info intot he correct pages and have the section

Patch changes
show the correct patched information and made them totaly un dependent of that particular trancluded page ( normaly multi achievements would not use the same patched info so the tranclusion should never have been made --  15:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Only changed 4 ( not counting yours and my talk pages - the Redirects were created later)
 * The following pages link to here:


 * View (previous 50) (next 50) (20 | 50 | 100 | 250 | 500)
 * User talk:Jrooksjr (← links)
 * User talk:Howbizr (← links)
 * Glory of the Raider (25 player) (transclusion) (← links)
 * Glory of the Raider (10 player) (transclusion) (← links)
 * Reins of the Plagued Proto-Drake (transclusion) (← links)
 * Reins of the Black Proto-Drake (transclusion) (← links)
 * Heroic: Glory of the Raider (25 player)/patch3.1.0 (redirect page) (← links)
 * Heroic: Glory of the Raider/patch3.1.0 (redirect page) (← links)


 * And they should never have used the transcluded page because any future patch changes ( as a general rule ) would NOT apply to every achievement - they should have used the patched template for those changes -- 15:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know how to add to it - I did that when I added the patched changes to 1 or 2 of the pages - but it looked weird haveing then  and like I said it took me a whole 1 minutes to make all 4 page changes - anyhow it is done the way you think it should be and I will not change it or any others like it (in the future) but I still do NOT agree with the idea of using the transcluded page the way it was used their for a patch change ( never will agree with it ) --  15:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Additional achievement changes needed on the (10 player) achievement
I see you are doing the Dungeons & Raids achievements/Lich King Raid achievements page. Before you get to far in just renaming them - inside of the individual achivements when it says: "Defeat  the Onyx Guardian on Normal Dificulty" the words On Normal Dificulty needs to be changed to in 10 player mode. and from what I can tell if it mentions the difficulty in the middle of the achievement - they are removing it and add the 10 player mode to the END of them all ( same will go for the 25 player as well -- wirebrain shows what I mean --  15:55, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Wowhead PTR usualy takes 1 - 2 days to update to the new changes after a new PTR version is released Wirebrain] is usualy quicker (usualy just a few hours delay) and they show the changes in RED the Removed text and in GREEN the Added text. -- I will go behind you and make those changes and then change the main page with the list of all the achievements on it (last) - if I catch up - then I will go the Secrets of Ulduar Heroic Raid page and start upwards - so as to not interfere with your changes -- 16:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Mobs vs Npc
I in the past been converting the Mob over to Npc to get rid of the Icon, especialy when there were many of them - to make the achievement main pages not so wide - for the smaller screens -- 17:16, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Speedy Delete
You'll learn this soon enough, if you become an admin, the speedydelete template should come before the redirect, otherwise the page continues to redirect anyway. From a deleters point of view, its 3 pages visited to delete the one, rather than just 2 pages. Its not a huge deal, just makes life easier. Thank you, 19:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, didn't know it was intended =P. 22:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

RE: Template:Spell
I would say not, spells/abilities are not that notable... unless you mean for it to work on player class spells? But you'd probably have to ask Pcj about that. 22:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It is nice to have, for player abilities, but for specific mobs a page would have to be created for each spell for it to be linked to... and I think thats where the issue came in, that we aren't a database and the spells weren't notable to keep each having its own page. 22:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, going back to your original question, yes it could be resurrected then. 22:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

RE: New Template
is perfect! -- 23:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Just thought of a addition to the coords locationIcon templates - now that Blizz has released maps of Northrend instances - could they be added into both? then we could add locations of npc and Mob inside of the instance maps, or would that be giving out too much to the public ( not to mention all the work of going to all pages / achievements / etc ) to add them in ? -- 23:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Heh you don't want me to attempt to make icons - I do good to draw stick figures at it is on real paper - much less trying to manipulate pictures on computers, but I figured to start off with we could use pre-existing icons found Search File:Achievement Boss ( can always upload proper ones later) -- 00:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Now I said you don't want me to make icons (but did not say not to figure out a way of using existing ones) - try this one Search File:Achievement Dungeon. -- 01:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You do realize there are no maps for Pre- only the Wrath of the Lich King Dungeon maps can utilize the template - unless you can get the others and upload them? -- 20:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Meta achievements at top or bottom of pages
I can do that - just thought if we were aphabetising that would included meta's at well -  23:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Mob
Thanks - I guess it was more complicated than I thought - when I looked at it -- I figured  change the  deprecated templates to Reputation but when I was done and saved it -- it still showed the categories as  using every deprecated template i replaced - so I undid my work to let you guys (who are more knowledgeable about the complicated templates) fix that one --  20:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahh I see - he he - here was my problem reputation documentation did not show that you could use a 4th paramater - when I looked it said reputation -- I just modified the documentation to show this now reputation. I also missed that last example showing the A H (faction) setting. -- 21:19, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

class="darktable sortable"
Have you looked at a table that has that paramater and clicked on a "Sort" arrow and seen how it displays the outcome? No thank you, I will manualy sort them and keep the display looking proper- unless you want to do it ( I can not / will not bring my self to use that parameter ) -- My main regret is that the setting  "zebra" does not work thru Transcluded pages!!! If that would work - then alphabetising would be a no-PAIN-er for anyone -- 16:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I do take that back - if you could get the display for the parameter "sortable" to always alternate shades ( after a sort button was used ) then I would use the sortable option --  16:03, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Have to come up with another idea -- the sortable paramater does not work thru Transcluded pages!! -- 18:56, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Go to General achievements and will see working sortable buttons, go to Quest achievements or Quest achievements and you will NOT see the Sort buttons - but if you go to the direct pages Quest achievements/General and Quest achievements/Classic you will then see the Sort buttons are there. -- 19:23, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Btw, I checked this on 2 seperate browsers IE 8 and Mozilla Firefox. -- 19:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Kewl if he can fix that, it might also fix the zebra setting ( same thing - works fine on main pages but not thru ajax ) - then all we have to do (in future) is add new achievements to the end of list - and zebra will stripe the pages  and if you want it sorted you click on the sort button - no more using  class=alt on anything and no worring about alpha orders ( if he can fix it thru ajax ). --  20:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Little formating question
I had not gotten back to the Feats of Strength pages - I was there to move an achievement and added the  sortable paramater while I was there  -  if you look at the pages that I used for examples General achievements, Quest achievements/General or Quest achievements/Classic about the sortable paramater not working - I have table set up like this:

the 1st column is unsortable as is description - because the icons wont sort if you click on sort buttons (my guess is because they are not text that can be sorted) -- 22:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Socketable gems
Please join us in conversation going on at Forum:Gem type categories. I would appreciate you describing your reasoning on merging socketable gems with 'gems items' there. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

On the plus side, most of the work I've done today was on the non-controversial side. ... as far as categories goes. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

While you seem to be on the short end of the "socketable" debate, I'd like to be sure that you would accept - for now - using that word in the category name. Don't want to start work and torque you off in the process.

Changing it (IE renaming the category) would be a matter of setting a bot on the task. But gaining the will to do so is a bit harder. Thus, I ask before I start if it is okay. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Sort
Thanks for that template - That is a lot less typing, er copy / past / modifying numbers. -- 18:33, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see my note on Template talk:Sort. I don't have any idea how to fix it right now.  Otherwise it's an elegant template.  Thanks. -- 03:33, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Minor changes
I had minor edits set before - and was told that some of my edits were NOT minor - so I quit setting it -- I would rather type ( actualy it is a auto-complete ) Minor changes --  but it wont show  the M - for people that block minors - because  you all will  Overide them either way - so it is useless to Set the Minor changes setting --  04:29, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I can do that -- 04:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

template Patches
Why did you undo the changes -- I just made it look better ( and had A'noob's aproval - becasue as he stated you can better see what each patch change was ( and if you can alway HIDE the sections you don't want so you cant use SIZE as a reasoning --  04:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)


 * And that is what I was talking about with "Minor Changes" setting - it is useless to do anything - the way anyone wants it because if you do, someone else will disagree and undo them because they do not like it --  you and Anoob are equals but you over-rode him - when he gave permision -- so it was useless to do anything because someone will over-ride another if they do not like it -- the only one exception is if Kirkburn gave permision - so I will go back to doing my changes the way I feel like doing them because you want it one way -- another wants it another - and we (the non admins) are stuck in the middle - so we are screwed either way. --  15:17, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Achievement Groupings now that class=darktable sortable zebra    works properly thru Ajaxsub
Now that the darktable paramters work properly thru Ajaxsub, I am going back over the achievement pages and regroup them inside of the page - so that when you 1st look at the pages all of the (Items, Mobs, Mounts, Skills, etc ...) are together - untill the "Sort" buttons are used to regroup the lists by those categories. I will problably NOT be touching the Exploration and Quest pages, only because they do not have any real groups to deal with. I did the General achievements page already and will start with the Player vs. Player achievements pages on up thru Feats of Strength achievements. P.S. you will have to have java or java-scripts turned on in order to see the zebra striping and to see the sort buttons as well. In the long run this will make adding, editing, moving and removing achievements easier because we no longer have to put the  tags in anymore on simple table lists (the tables with   and   will still need the alt tags). -- 16:43, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

wow/bc/wotlk Inlines with sort
Would it work if we modified the 3 inlines ( to include a |sort= paramater  that would then and only then  add the sort template -- on wow-inline vs wow-inline would  make     and      and bc-inline has 2  and  has --  that way would not have to make a whole new template -- just add to existing one ? --  02:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I notice on wotlk-inline you changed it to say  -- so the parameter of 1 is what we use to make it sortable ? -- 04:07, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that the is supposed to represent parameter 1 - I just am used to seeing it as  is all - shouldn't it be   just 1 seperater? if=|yes|no -- not if= yes|no --  04:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Mob template
Mob makes a call to Combat that is where the problem is - when I made the change to NPC from Icon Small  to faction it does not know what Combat is so it put Neutral Icon Small as default. -- 04:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I fixed all three to use FactionIcon again.


 * Alliance Thorim
 * Neutral  Thorim
 * Horde
 * Combat




 * There is only 1 small drawback -- if you mouse over the Combat icon it says "Combat Crest" I do not know how to get rid of it -- it only shows up that way on these templates - if you go to the NPC page and look at the Npcbox and mouse over the icon it says "Combat" there -- 15:59, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ohh yeah as a result of the changes, we have two more factionIcon settings per se:


 * Alliance    Horde     Neutral     Combat
 * Alliance    Horde     Neutral     Combat




 * -- 16:11, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Problem fixed -- did not need new #ifeq:  just needed to remove the default Crest for all and add it to  Alliance  Horde and Neutral  --  leaving Combat by itself --  23:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Mountfooter
I know you commented about its size in the past, so please see Forum:Template:Mounts and tell me what you think. 05:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Titanium Powder.
Just saw you removed the JC Token sold from Tiffany Cartier. Being on the PTR, which is in its definitive / retail version, I can confirm you that she does indeed sell a JC token for 10 Titanium Powders, and there is no such quest as Titanium Powder. So I'm wondering, where did you see that this quest was implemented on the PTR? I'd like to hear from you before reverting the change. =) Cityhunter0505 - Etsuko (talk) 23:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a quest for this found on wowheads website. I think is is a repeatable quest like the and  are to the Sons of Hodir for rep.


 * The information Cityhunter0505 is talking about is even on MMO Champion:

Patch 3.2 - Where can I get Epic Gems? The patch will probably hit the live servers very soon and a lot of people ask me the same question : Where can I get the Epic Gems? It shouldn't be hard to answer that, currently there are 4 ways to get them :

Jewelcrafting / Prospecting You can find epic gems by prospecting Titanium Ore, it's probably not the best way to get it because Titanium is already fairly expensive but if you need as many gems as possible and don't want to wait, go for it. Prospecting Titanium will give you an epic gem 25~30% of the time, the droprate for rare gems seems to be the same, and you will always get an uncommon gem. If you're lucky enough you can even get 2 epics on the same prospect.

Note: You will also get Titanium Powder 60% of the time, you can exchange 10 of them for a Dalaran Jewelcrafter's Token and get your new recipes even faster.

Alchemy New transmutations are available for these gems. (20 Hours cooldown)


 * Transmute: Ametrine
 * Transmute: Cardinal Ruby
 * Transmute: Dreadstone
 * Transmute: Eye of Zul
 * Transmute: King's Amber
 * Transmute: Majestic Zircon

PvE - Emblems of Heroism You can buy any of the epic gems for Emblem of Heroism. These emblems do not drop anymore in 3.2 and are replaced by Emblems of Conquest in heroic instances / raids dungeons but you can still exchange higher tier emblems. (Emblem of Conquest -> Emblem of Valor > Emblem of Heroism.


 * Cardinal Ruby, Majestic Zircon, King's Amber can be bought for Emblem of Heroism x 20.
 * Ametrine, Dreadstone, Eye of Zul can be bought for Emblem of Heroism x 10.

PvP - Honor Last but not least, you can buy any of the epic gem for 10,000 Honor Points.
 * -- 01:29, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw the page on Wowhead, but the quest is nowhere to be found on the PTR. Now, both the Wowhead and the Wowwiki page are empty of information (such as the quest giver, etc.), so I'm guessing it may have been the dev's intention to make it a repeatable quest (and so may have been data mined), but it (the JC tokens) was introduced as a buyable item for 10 powders on the PTR. And by the way, all the 3.2 JC changes were made weeks before MMO posted this. =) Cityhunter0505 - Etsuko (talk) 02:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was agreeing with both of you and made the same post on both pages - showing you where the quest info was (I did not download the PTR this time around so could not see if it is on there or not) and showing her the info on mmo-champion - you both are right wowhead shows it is a quest and mmo-champion verifies what you said - so the info should be on the page. -- 02:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Reverted the change on Tiffany's page. Whether or not the quest exist (I'm guessing it was never actually implemented on the PTR), Tiffany Cartier does sell the token for 10 powders. =) Cityhunter0505 - Etsuko (talk) 04:20, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Tiffany Cartier
Ok I need to to tell me how / why that fixed it on IE - you just added a   above the lines that had   -- On Firefox it was fine - that is why I did not notice it last night but on IE  Red Blue Purple and Orange (only) were messing up untill you added the extra |- lines -- why was that needed and only for IE from what I can tell btw. -- 20:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oops wrong - your changes did not work for IE - they are still not there on IE but are perfect on Firefox - you should not have to have the extra |-  then |- style line because the |- says end of style and then does the new style -- It is only a IE problem -- so I think it is in the zebra setting - and it is only messing up 4 colors  Red, Blue, Purple and Orange  the other colors Green and Yellow are fine even on IE --  20:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, as I mentioned I am using 2 browsers - IE works fine for some things and Firefox for other -- For instance the table setting  |- align:center does NOT work on Firefox --  the tables show up LEFT alligned but in IE it is centered on the page -- but this color issue -- works fine on Firefox but not on IE -- so which is the best browser (Both are and none are) but anyhow back to the color issue -- IE shows the colors pefectly while teh page is loading -- but when all scripts are loaded as well as wikia ad's then the colors go away -- so it sounds like a scripting problem  ( remember Pcj said that he had to do something a little differently to get  zebra setting to work on IE so I am figuring it is in that setting that is messing up the colors -- I let  Pcj know of the problem so he can look into it. --  20:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that, when I think of something I sometimes get on a roll - was not meaning to sound preachy or anything - just explaing why I did not notice the problem last night on Firefox but did notice IE does show the colors untill all scrips are loaded etc --  21:04, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, I feel the same way about IE but it does have a majority of the market share so I'm sure there'll be more complaints in the future... -- 21:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You must've gotten confused who you were talking to. :P Yes, they might feel like different browsers but they all basically use the same non-standard behavior from a coding perspective. -- 21:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tiffany Cartier should now be fixed. Add class="nozebra" to any rows which are affected by zebra-stripe overwriting. -- 17:59, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re:Just a thought
You might want to ask Kaydeethree about that in general -- I know the difference between the 2  templates - but some time ago I was requested to use Achievementlong for the one in the title and to use achievement when making lists -- I originaly was using achievementlong for everything. Before they had the  parameter in achievementlong or the   parameter in Achievementbox), that is why you were seeing some that used to say achievement name (Alliance). I personaly like the achievementlong template over the achievement template for all achievements. --  02:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC) As of right now -- all I have to do is go over the Feats of Strength achievements in to convert all to the new class="darktable sortable zebra" and to remove the |-class=alt tags to make every page consistent - after I do those pages -- then I can go back over and change achievement back to achievementlong if Kaydeethree approves. --  02:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Bad images
Please check to see if you can see these images, if not then you need to undo my changes to their files - I re-uploaded the images to see if it would help. I personaly can see them on both IE8 and Firefox 3.5 now:

• •  •

I could NOT fix this image:



-- 16:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a cache problem. Re-uploading images does NOT make it work better. -- 16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ohh ok because they are All working now on my computer ( even the one I said did not work) -- 16:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I did read what you informed the other user that said they could not see the image on Skyfire Diamond and I could not see it either on both browsers (he did mark it as bad). - I re-uploaded <read what I stated again> - and they now work for me on both browsers, so I removed the problem tag -- Pcj says it was a Cache problem not bad images. -- 16:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Transmutes
Since they are technically abilities, you should use the Stub/Ability stub. 21:14, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * BTW after looking at the boilerplate for ability, I added a new boilerplate and stub. See Stub/Profession etc. 7:31 PM, 2 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Proftip default catagory
I was wondering, if you set a category by default - then every item that is not given a category will automaticaly go in as Category:Enchanting - would it not be better to check for the proffession and if none is given print out a message saying to enter one and then categorise it by the profession? that way nothing would be of 1 profession but placed in the Enchanting category! (just an oppinion). -- 22:15, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or better make the default category Category:Uncategorized profession? -- 22:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the template should handle categories, just noticed when I was converting Personal Electromagnetic Pulse Generator to use this template, the template puts the Engineering category into the article where its a parent of Category:Engineering enchantments. 22:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I did not read the full documentation so you may have stated that -- I did read your info on Template_talk:Tooltip and seen where you were going to give it the name Proftip so I added it to my watchlist then - and got email notice of the changes -- that is why I knew about the category default. I learn by looking and of course by doing, but this time around I would rather see you do it and then I will feel more comfortable the next time around to do so. -- 22:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem Morph. I removed the auto-cat for you Coobra. 6:32 PM, 2 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Dark Jade
I'd like to see either some type of sortability on the gem tables, or for the number of columns to be reduced so that the two tables (normal, perfect) can be displayed side-by-side on my screen. They can't, as it stands. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 15:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Q&A
Missing some classes still. I went out and found Warrior in just a few clicks. Still reading up on it. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Achievement:Charger

 * Correct, back before Wrath came out I had asked about that before we started adding the achievements into the game (when we were 1st setting up the achievement pages) and Kirkburn had stated he did not see a reason to do so at the time, so we did not do so, but the other day Gourra had just added Achievement:Charger - so I had asked on that day and then later noticed we also had Achievement:Explore Darkshore as well as Achievement:Explore Elwynn Forest. Since then Eirik Ratcatcher has moved them to the proper naming techniques Charger (achievement) etc ... . --  17:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Un-safe coloring ??
How do you mean un-safe coloring? So far the colors are working fine in columns etc all unless   is used,  then your background colors Red, Orange, Blue and Violet are overridden. That is where  comes into play on that specific line. Unless you are talking about something differently?? -- 18:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

"Azeroth" / "Classic" / EK & K
Re some of my recent changes removing the term Azeroth, I'm trying to fix the times that "Azeroth" is used incorrectly to mean "the playable world before Burning Crusade". Now that we can play in Northrend, which is part of Azeroth, dividing the playable world into "Azeroth, Outland, and Northrend" is incorrect. I figure "Classic" is a good term when referring to something that's not strictly geographical (like an event such as Children's Week), but it's not ideal. Still, Azeroth is flatly wrong and there needs to be something better. (I used "Eastern Kingdoms & Kalimdor" sometimes but that feels too wordy for some cases.) Just wanted to explain. I may open a forum topic on it but will need to wait on that. Cheers. -- Harveydrone 23:27, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Against the Odds achievement
PTR: Build 10192 did remove the achievement Against the Odds from the game. It did not get converted over to a Feat of strength, just as all of the Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest achievements did not get converted over (all were removed in build 10192) you can check wirebrain's list of current achievements as of PTR build 10192, wirebrain's list of changes from PTR build 10192, Wohead: Feats of Strength achievements and Wowhead: Wintergrasp achievements. The achievements are no longer there. -- 05:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I will go along with the note for now - but so far ( since achievements were added to the game. ), wirebrain's list of changes from PTR build 10192 or any other build has not been wrong yet, and Blizzard is notorious for not updating patch notes especialy with last minute changes, hence the undocumented changes pages we have on Wowpedia. -- 15:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Acording to a reply to a post I made at General Forum by a player: The Emblems were a last minute change ( as I mentioned above in build 10192 ) and were removed from Feats of Strength achievements and placed in the Raid UI. I will bet anything they removed  as last minute change and just removed it from the game all together.  It no longer shows up in my Achievement screen ingame as Feat of strength nor Wintergrasp achievement and it does not show up on my WoW Armory achievement page for my character. I will still way a day or so to see if a developer replies, but I know it was removed now for sure, 2 3rd party web databases (one that is super reputable and one that is pretty reputable) all agree with me. --  18:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Undocumented Changes in 3.2.0 to Fishing Hat
Try again, and actually read what people write. Corwin MacGregor (talk) 21:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Emblembox changes

 * Moved to Template_talk:Emblembox 11:01 AM, 10 Aug 2009 (EDT)

You have your Proto drakes confused

 * Moved to Talk:Reins_of_the_Violet_Proto-Drake 10:39 AM, 10 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Template Patched
I removed the 2nd paramater 1.1 and 1.10 from the numbers you have to use 3 number #.#.# not 2 #.# to make it work (only on these 2 numbers  you must use 3 #'s ) -- 05:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Respect
Being an admin does not give anyone the right to make blaten reversion without giving the respect of and explanation as to why, nor does it not give them a reason to do something as simple READING why the changes occured. If they want respect, they have to give it as well or as many of the admin's have been accused of, they become BULLY's just because they have to power to do so. -- 17:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I know what you're trying to say, and while I'll agree that most of our admins seem to be lazy on protocol (aka "revision comments" and "when to select minor edit"), some of what are you describing is just "the wiki way." Don't take this the wrong way because I like you - I'm just trying to "be real" as it were.


 * A few things to keep in mind. Assume good faith. I don't think Coobra was abusing any power - certainly none that you don't have as well. I'm assuming he just felt like your edit was wrong, or not complete, or something like that. Hopefully you can get some better reasoning from him.


 * Secondly, it's on the page every time you make an edit, "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." You must be comfortable with this. It's just the way wikis work. If you want an untouched page that no one else can edit, you need to start a blog or something to that effect.


 * Lastly, "All contributions are considered to be released under the CC-BY-SA," as in, once you click "save" it's no longer "yours," it's the community's. They are just as much a part of it as you. You are going to get out voted on things you are passionate about, and you just have to accept that. But just because an admin clicks "undo," doesn't mean you can't fire back with another revision. 1:20 PM, 12 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * 1) It was as Gourra not Coobra
 * 2) The Assume good faith goes both ways (it applies to the Admins too), especialy when I did have my changes documented for them to read on the talk page - so that was him not assuming good faith.
 * 3) Editting is not the same as REVERTING (I have had many of my edits re-editted) - it does not say if you want your edits REVERTED mercillessly.
 * 4) Overall I have (when documented why) left the reversion - but when I disagree with the reversion, I reverted it and I documented WHY I did so as well -- I did not just go I dont agree with this and just undo them - like the mount - I do not agree with you on it being NYI (just because no one has earned it yet) but I did give in on the note saying it can not be earned untill September. -- 18:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll just have to agree to disagree on reverts not being edits. 9:28 AM, 13 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Frag belt
Um... Looking on the Kirkburn talk page, I note that you edited item links a previous editor had used, to make use of the item template. I really gotta ask why ya did that. Did using the template actually illustrate what Saisatyendu was talking about? 'cause it seems ... intrusive... to do such a thing. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Patch 3.2.2
Patch 3.2.2 is not on the PTR server yet so we can not put patch notes, but if you go to the patch page you can see a big box showing the post from Zarhym stating that we will be getting that mount in patch 3.2.2 (soon to be on the PTR servers) and for their 5th anivarsery all who log in will get a pet as well. So please go back and revert your changes to the mount - it is NOT speculation it is quoted from staff. -- 22:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently, not all of the mounts tool tips have the TPL tagging because I coppied the tooltip from one of the proto-drake mounts (forget which one now) and just removed the information we did not know about. -- 22:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Talent Tooltips
I think it would make viewing talents much more convenient, much like the item tooltips. I haven't done anything beyond what I have because, I didn't know what else needed to be done. -- Gethe (talk) 17:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Going to make you an admin
Unlike most candidates, there has been no opposition to your promotion. Also, since kd3 promoted SWM, I should just get it over with. -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 2:07 PM PST 14 Aug 2009
 * Congratulations! This does not mean I will always agree with you on everything, but again Congratulations! -- 21:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Grats. -- 21:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Grats. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * A first vandal for you: User:Robertsonic --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Alas, some of my reversions were inappropriate, in that others had gotten there first. But for that user, I noted only 3 edits that were not vandalism... :( --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If it hasn't been taken care of already, some other admin should probably work on that vandal case if it needs immediate attention. I'll be out most of tonight, and I need to learn the ropes a bit. 6:13 PM, 14 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Congrats. 22:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Gratz!-- 22:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Congratulations :) Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:51, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Colon problem?
You should see a doctor about that =P 01:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ROFLMAO 9:39 PM, 14 Aug 2009 (EDT)

RE: Admin questions...
The reason why the image has been tagged with a problem is usually explain on the image page. For example File:Spell Fire BlueCano.png says the image is not loading correctly, however on Frozen Power it is working as intended, so it's no longer a problem image.

The gem items category was deleted by me one year age, but Fandyllic then created it again. -- 13:33, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I've alerted Wikia to it, only they can do anything. -- 13:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Using Template Tooltip to categorize

 * Moved to Template talk:Tooltip 9:53 PM, 16 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Maybe I only wanted certain people to give input
That is why I did not put it on forums - I wanted a few oppinions, so I put that on their specific pages. I can do that, I know of no policy/guideline that prohibits it. -- 04:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: "Oh my goodness" & "Some lore love"
First, hi again, I was off for some days so that make no quick answers.

My page is just amaaaaaaaaaaazing, so do not touch the displays!

What about the Darkfallen? Where do my woooonderful skills (roflmao) are to be used?

07:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hihi!
 * There you go!
 * 07:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Boss Templating
With regard to the Lord Jaraxxus page - I realize there's an established format, which was one thing when there were two difficulties. It seems like a lot of extra space for no particular reason when there are four modes, all with the same abilities, just different numbers. If there's a process that needs to be gone through to introduce a new format, by all means point me to it. But it does seem like a table is a much better way to present boss abilities.

-- Lakoto (talk) 11:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Paladins_as_tanks
In Paladins_as_tanks you added an external link to "Maintankadin": www.maintankadin.com. This seems to be a cybersquatting site now. It survived several edits, though, so I wonder if it used to be legit. The Maintankadin forums link underneath is for maintankadin.failsafedesign.com, suggesting the first one was a typo. But if so, then the links are basically duplicates (the main page seems to also be the forums!). I was going to change it, but thought I'd run it by you first. Cheers. -- w.woods (talk) 01:51, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I see you took care of it. Thanks :) --w.woods (talk) 05:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Vendor gems
Could you verify for me, that the Wintergrasp vendor gems are BoE? In addition to just telling me, could you go to either Category:Purchased socketable gems or Category:Meta socketable gems (yeah, 'socketable', ick) and unstub/add BoE? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Also: I seem to have created Category:Bind on Equip socketable gems vs "BoE socketable gems". If you feel strongly about the BoE let me know sooner rather than later. ... and be prepared to retrofit existing "Bind on Equip/Bind on Pickup" gem pages. :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

... Red and Orange jewelcrafted gems updated. Bleah! They said I'd have to be crazy to do this. They were right. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yellow and Green updated, though as I've been going along, my template has been evolving. Earlier pages may need to be revisited. Check Solid Azure Moonstone for an example of what I'm doing currently. As I've been going through these, I've realized that most of the uncommon BC gems are for sale as well. But since a) I don't think of buying those gems, and b) nobody is really going to care that much about BC uncommons, I've not been putting them in Purchased gems. Also keeps that category from being cluttered, hiding the gems that can only be purchased.... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Think I've got the categories finished. Care to check around, see if I missed anything? A number of the metas are still stubs, but that was only a sideline for me... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

New gems footer
I am dissatisfied with the current gems and {{t|minerals}] footer navbars. I have created User:Eirik Ratcatcher/Raw Gems SB, and would appreciate comments on it, if you can spare the time. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

JameSI
Don't remember the Wikia account merge? People who had different e-mail addresses in their accounts here and Wikia central had the WoWWiki- prepended to their names. He probably didn't request a merge even though both accounts were his and just switched to using the non-WoWWiki one. Since he isn't contributing actively on the WoWWiki login, should probably move the talk page to his correct account and forget about merging the contributions. -- 17:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Faction change vs Faction Change service
Heh, I do not know if you had noticed but Gourra had already made the page Faction change earlier in the day, albeit not as wikified as your Faction Change service but you might want to merge the 2 pages. -- 23:08, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * I let you know (AS you were making edits) that the page was already made - so I figured YOU would be better at merging the two articles (since you did NOT notice that Gourra had made the article already) and I "WILL NOT BE BOLD on Wowpedia any more!" -- Every time I am BOLD (the ADMINS UNDO my work) so quit telling us to be when it is USELESS to be such. --  19:55, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * You need to look at the time edits of my posting and your edits (I made the posting before you made your last edit) so YOU were the better one to merge it, I might have Interfered with your edits at the time if I did any changes on the page you was working on at the time.


 * My behavior has changed!?!? I can not even make a suggestion on what I feel needs to be added to a template without an ADMIN undoing my suggestions in which I did revert and stated why I reverted them and again they reverted them and again I reverted and stated why and they again reverted. I could NOT revert again because, I would then be Violating the Wowpedia:Three revert rule and would be Banned for a few days and still would not have my suggestions listed. So do NOT tell me to be WP:BOLD just because YOU can be, it does NOT mean others can be. So why would my behavior change? --  20:48, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

RE: You're famous!
You certainly meant Wowhead is famous xD

20:45, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Coliseum
Coliseum is fine, see Vault, its not VoA, see Ulduar, its not Uld, see Malygos, its not EoE, naming doesn't matter its just supposed to be descriptive and Coliseum is fine... after the whole place is called Crusaders' Coliseum. I named it this cause people have many names for it, TOC, TOTC, and CC. 19:35, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well on my server we call the place CC, so TOC to us is the 5man. TOC, TOTC, and technically CC all could mean the entire place as well. 19:41, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Coding issues: Chasing Marcia achievement
Chasing Marcia I messed with this for some time, however, am unable to determine why when I attempt to add  to the links section. Any text added generates a  invalid tag error appears.

My thanks in advance, please leave a note on my talk page if needed.

-- Ariule (talk) 03:17, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the page looks correct now, Coobra edited it and it is working. I have left a comment on that talk page asking what was done as my notes and the current page look similar.

-- Ariule (talk) 14:04, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

The error message "red" is a Wikia cacheing issue with templates on all wiki's - when you get this error just edit the template again and add or remove a space somewhere between the  and the   tags - even if you did not make a change in that area originaly. We have a forum on this topic here and Wikia also has a topic on it here. -- 21:20, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Zarhym article
Heya, Howbizr, and thanks for the 'proper welcome' :) Much appreciated.

As for the article on Zarhym, my intent was to remove this line:

"A short time ago, Zarhym was received with some ill tempers for a negative response to a view held by many of the World of Warcraft Community.[1] "

My personal opinion is that this serves little purpose, however good-intentioned it may have been. The CMs receiving negative responses about particular subjects is like saying the sun always sets - posters on the forums will always disagree in one shape or form and, just because a thread contains negative posts does not by any means mean that the majority of the community agrees! Also, there's the small matter of the subject spilling over from Wowwiki back onto the forums, which it did, creating unnecessary drama :P Given the reaction, it seems that the aforementioned line may stray from the "neutral point of view" adopted on the wiki, as it paints Zarhym (unintentional, I'm sure) in a negative light.

-- Frejya (talk) 22:42, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

RE: Contribution count
Could my "5 digits of contributions" bring a Y2K on wowwiki?

Huuum... back to work!

14:34, September 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * 10,005.
 * WoWwiki keeps spining around.
 * Back to work!
 * 20:43, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Active users
Yeah I know about Recent Changes and there is this page Statistics as well as this parameter which yields this number. -- 20:19, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Deletion
How many admins does it take to change a lightbulb? Jellinator (talk) 17:52, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * One, unless it comes to a vote (in which case it takes 5). --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:15, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Worse than that Eirik, 5 more yes's than no's! 3:18 PM, 25 Sep 2009 (EDT)
 * Only 3, if it's a deletion vote... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:16, September 25, 2009 (UTC)