Talk:Shattered Hand clan

Since there are two Shattered Hand groups and two leaders, shouldn't someone add Thrall next to Kargath? (talk - contr ) 04:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Logo
The logos from WoD seem very Iron Horde-y, meaning that there is much iron in it, thus I'm not so sure whether they should be in the main-universe clans. Thoughts? --Mordecay (talk) 18:11, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe it can wait Chronicles 2 Xporc (talk) 18:31, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Which ones make you feel that way? Because if it's the Blackrock one, it was confirmed through the Blackhand comics that the Blackrocks were already quite industrialized in the MU so it makes sense. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 22:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * For the most part the MU clans have been retconned to match WoD, as we saw in Lords of War and the Blackhand comic, so I think using them is fine. If Chronicle 2 gives us different ones then they can be swapped out but otherwise I don't see a problem. ReignTG (talk) 22:10, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Distinction between orc clan and rogue guild
Is there any source explaining the exact relation and/or distinction between the Shattered Hand clan as it existed on Draenor and the modern-day Shattered Hand rogue guild? (For simplicity's sake, I'll refer to the former as "the clan" and the latter as "the guild".) I have yet to find one, and the lack of clarification is bugging me quite a bit. I haven't read Traveler, but I'm curious if it elaborates on this matter, specifically the bit about Throgg sacrificing his hand as proof of his allegiance. Does the book mention if that was to the clan or to the guild? If the latter, that suggests to me that the guild may still be partially holding on to some of the clan's traditions, albeit not as a mandatory thing (judging by the amount of orcish rogue trainers who still have both their hands). -- 16:07, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Ah, I remember back how in vanilla we were all confused about the Twilight's Hammer, Shattered Hand and Burning Blade becoming cults or guilds instead of clans ^^. While I can't bring any source, I can remind you that many Shattered Hand mobs in Burning Crusade have both of their hands. Maybe Throgg was an exception, being an ogre, and thus having more to prove than the other members of the guild?Xporc (talk) 17:17, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * From the book: "Even his missing hand was a symbol of that quality, having been taken years ago as proof of allegiance to the orcs of the Shattered Hand clan." And thats all. It is not specified when it happened, tho, it could be on Draenor or in Orgrimmar. Later when deciding who is to fight King Gordok, Throgg is chosen but the king responds that Shattered Hand is orc clan. --Mordecay (talk) 17:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Hm, alright. That reads more to me like it happened when the Hand was still an orc-only clan rather than a rogue guild. Might be best to move the Throgg note to Trivia then since there's no specific timeframe provided. -- 17:34, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Cutting off their hand is apparently not a thing now in the New Horde.--Mordecay (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Well if Warcraft II is still canon, each orc clan had its squads of ogres, forest troll and death knight allies ^^ Xporc (talk) 17:56, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Given the information from The Spiral Path, I have literally no clue what the timeline of Throgg's and Malus' encounter with the Shattered Hand clan is. When encountered by Throgg (several years ago, from the first book) they are described as a clan, warriors, and with orcs having one hand, that rescued the ogre clan that served the Horde and fought against the Alliance. Throgg specifically says that "Not many Shattered Hand left in Azeroth." So we are on Azeroth, after the Invasion of Draenor, and that's all I can think of. I'm also wondering whether the Alliance was the Alliance of Lordaeron or the current Alliance. The Alliance enemies are described as: humans, dwarves and an elf (what kind would be really helpful, but alas). Why would the Shattered Hand work with Malus is also beyond me. --Mordecay (talk) 21:26, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting questions! Xporc (talk) 21:50, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I've also read it is quite confusing. I'd say is before Thrall's new Horde, since the Shattered Hand has become a rogue guild. For me, I'd say it's near the Third War when the clans were scattered throughout the Eastern Kingdoms. And since it only talks about humans, dwarves and elves; that battle should have been probably in the Second War since Quel'Thalas left the Alliance. But no idea. Maybe in future books we'll know the answer. --Ryon21 (talk) 21:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Chronicle 2 and some previous sources state that the Shattered Hand didn't participate in the First or Second Wars. They first crossed into Azeroth with the Warsongs during the Invasion of Draenor. But yea, time before the Third War could probably work, if they weren't captured in the internemt camps they could be fighting the Alliance (of Lordaeron). But then, the ogre clan was stated to serve the Horde, would that be the New Horde? Wondering if Thrall would allow those battles.
 * But yea, future books better explain it! So far, loving the series. --Mordecay (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Guild
Where are the Shattered Hand referred to as a guild? --Mordecay (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't think they're ever referred to as such. I mostly used it on this talk page to distinguish between the two versions of the clan; "rogue guild" is shorter and easier to write than "rogue organization". -- 06:30, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Some members of the regular clan having two hands
So while earlier lore like Warcraft Adventures indicated all members had only one hand, I've noticed in both Burning Crusade and Warlords of Draenor there are occasional members with both hands such as Shattered Hand Stalker and Shattered Hand Assassin. Interestingly two handed Shattered Hand Clan orcs tend to be rogues. Think this is worth noting? Gann Stonespire (talk) 08:17, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, but the modern Shattered Hand clan are a rogue guild already anyway :p Xporc (talk) 22:21, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * What I mean is both the Fel Horde and Iron Horde incarnations of Shattered Hand have two handed rogues. Impying the association of the Shattered Hand assassins predates the new Horde. Gann Stonespire (talk) 02:57, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Right. Guess being sneaky bastards was always their trope. Xporc (talk) 11:59, 24 August 2018 (UTC)