Talk:Cho'gall

Report of rancid speculation
Um, sorry to report rancid speculation, but I must say that a French thread on the RP WoW forum suggests, arguing, that Cho'gall is related to the five spooky children of Elwynn.-- K )  (talk) 10:37, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Who killed Cho'gall?
Originally it was Orgrim Doomhammer and the Blackrock clan, but in the novel Tides of Darkness it is different. In the novel, Rend & Maim and their Black Tooth Grin clan are sent after Gul'dan by Doomhammer. In that version of the story, Cho'gall dies fighting the Black Tooth Grin and its chieftains instead of the Blackrock clan and Orgrim. So which one do we call "canon"?--Illidan Rocks 00:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Tides of Darkness. And I can't recall it ever being said that Orgrim killed Cho'gall.--Austin P 00:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It says right now that "Cho'gall died defending Gul'dan at the Tomb from Orgrim Doomhammer and his forces" right now, which is why I was not clear on what happened. I'll change it. It also says that Orgrim himself, along with the Blackrocks, chased Gul'dan to the Tomb and engaged him there, but I'll let somebody else worry about changing that.--Illidan Rocks 10:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

How could Orgrim Doomhammer be at the Isle of Sargares? He was out sieging Lordearon by the time that battle ended.--The last Alterac 07:37, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Certainly a small issue, RPG describes it as such;

"...the Twilight’s Hammer clan was slaughtered anyway by the forces Orgrim Doomhammer sent to destroy the traitor clans." Baggins (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks like nobody killed Cho'gall. Ironic. --Timolas (talk) 17:08, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Well we got his current location in the new comic preview with him being in C'Thuns chamber. Leviathon (talk) 07:56, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think his death is described in ToD, but I don't think there was anyone of significance there. Come to think of it, it might have been one of those scenes where they have him charging at the enemy, but cut away for the next chapter... -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I checked and it says that he fell with two axes sticking out of his chest. Given his bulk, I could buy him surviving that, barely.--Austin P (talk) 16:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Two names
I thought since one head is Cho and another Gall that it would mean his name is aka Cho and Gall? It is confusing. If someone yelled "hey Cho'Gall" would both heads reply? Do people ever say "I want to talk to Cho and not Gall"? LOL Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 03:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "aka" is short for "also known as". I have never once seen someone call him "Cho and Gall." -- Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 05:34, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think I have either. I also haven't seen too many people tell Uther "hey Uther the Lightbringer come here" though. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:44, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Its kinda of mis interpreted, one head is called Cho and the other head is Gall, but that doesnt' mean the entire being is "Cho and Gall".Baggins (talk) 05:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * But that is how Cho'gall got his name. From the Cho and the Gall heads right? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 06:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but there aren't really individuals who will only deal with Cho and not Gall, or vice versa, and he is only known as Cho'gall, he isn't known as Cho and Gall. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:27, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Nor the being known as Cho'gall was born from the fusion of two beings, but he was born like Cho'gall or one of the two head popped up through the use of dark magik. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 14:35, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

In anycase this is pretty much an non-editorial discussion...Baggins (talk) 17:36, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well it is said that ogres with 2 heads usually are found arguing with each other. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ogre mages get along better.-- 02:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If you've read Tides of Darkness, Rolandius, you'll notice that Cho and Gall got along just fine. Baggins, this counts as an editorial discussion because we're discussing something that was removed from the article. Admittedly, such complaints should usually be addressed to the usertalk of the one who did the removing, in this case, me.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Guess who's back
yeah guys, it's true, the guy is back leading the twilight's hammer.... Azahel (talk) 18:27, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Citation, citation, citation. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's the comic, if you read the preview pages in the official site in the last page you'll see an ogre, I think it must be him. However, I won't add it to the article until I confirm it's him. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well the orc does have two large scars across his chest.Baggins (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * a little tease.... http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/wccomic/issue16bg-4.jpg if is nor him, then is a twin, and also he leads the twilight hammer! *runs to the comic shop* Azahel (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Not many other Ogres it could be considering we were told a 'horde hero who was thought dead for 20 years would be making a return in the comic' at that convention a couple weeks ago. Leviathon (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, now that I compare him with this picture they look identical. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

The only difference is the right eye of the two-eyed head LOL. The older image has a scar over it, the newest hasn't. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 19:42, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, it's him. At what point did the comic become WC1&2 NPC reunion?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I find it disgusting. It seems the "every lore character is invited" party... --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To be fair it started with flash backs of Lothar, and baby King Wrynn.Baggins (talk) 19:49, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Guess Metzen figured it was the best way to add in 'Horde heroes' even if they aren't exactly allied with the new Horde. Leviathon (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Better that than instantly turn them into raid bosses.Baggins (talk) 19:55, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * which usually happens... well, it all looks terribly logic to me, all them are conected, including one will most likelly bring the rest as a bonus Azahel (talk) 20:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget: "Lothar wants you!" Silly!!! --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 00:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Something tells me we may see Cho'gall in Ulduar. Leviathon (talk) 20:49, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay now that would be crazy! I was more hoping they would re-open AQ similar to Naxx, because I and many others never had the chance to play it during its glorious days. -- 22:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't get it? Why is he in Ahn'Qiraj? 17:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * He's leading the Twilight's Hammer. The Twilight's Hammer likes the Old Gods. There's a dead Old God in Ahn'Qiraj. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Is he actually visible in game?
The Wiki and comic states that he is partying with C'thun in AQ. Is there a sprite of him anywhere in C'thun's chamber or in AQ at all in-game? Can any one check? I've looked around myself but haven't seen him. He might be invisible, or only visible with certain trinkets. (Like Ricole Nitche in Shat)


 * I haven't been there but I had the impression he was not in-game or else the comic's info that he is alive would not really be "new". The closest thing I see connected to him is Collar of Cho'gall. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 06:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well shoot, I've got nothing to see anything hidden yet. So I'll see if I can get any look around. I dunno, I doubt he's in the game as well Jennerfirst (talk) 02:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * He is not currently, but it's looking as though he may appear in Cataclysm. There was an image datamined labelled merely "ogre" that looks suspiciously like Cho'gall. He's got two heads and is outfitted in unique purple and gold armor. This is, of course, unconfirmed and there is no proof. But the resemblance is striking. --Rawtoast (talk) 18:48, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * FYI, that model is already used in the Burning Crusade for a couple different NPCs, including Mogor and Blackheart. And if it were Cho'gall, it would seemingly be ignoring the fact that he's now a giant C'thun-esque monstrosity. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:51, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Child of the Three Realms speculation...
"When the child of the three realms becomes as light, [various stuff now obviously about Cataclysm events]." Human, Orc, Draenei: my money's on Med'an. Now the question is, what does "as light" mean? Dead...? Tejon (talk) 15:48, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's obviously talking about Med'an, but in the context of the issue it seemed more like he was referring to C'thun's resurrection than Cataclysm. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:45, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

The Most Jarring non-capitalised letter.
Is there any reason for the fact that the g in Cho'Gall is NOT capitalised considering the fact that Gall is a NAME? Even Jubei'thos and Gul'dan got a letter following the apostraphe capitalised INSPITE of the fact that their apostraphe is there for pronounciation reasons and not to diffrienciate between names (I.E Gul'dan's apostraphe is there in order to clarify the sylables so it is pronounced "Gul-dan" and not "Guld-an" as it would be pronounced with out the apostraphe. Seriously: It is one thing to consistantly spell Ork incorrectly, and it is another thing to not capitalise the first letter of a name.--The last Alterac (talk) 10:16, April 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't know, ask Blizzard. That whole one head is Cho and the other is Gall thing was introduced long after the character was. And the dan in Gul'dan is not capitalized. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:33, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

That was my mistake for simply making an ass out of myself on the part of Gul'dan, but my point on Jubei'Thos still stands.--The last Alterac (talk) 00:45, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's great and all, but it's not up to us. Blizzard says that's how their names are capitalized, so that's how they're capitalized. If you want to continue this discussion further, the WoW story forum is probably a better place for it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:06, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

He appears in-game
He appears in-game at Feralas, recruiting ogres to his cause, and surrounded by an army of ogre mages that are just like him before he transformed into the monster.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:52, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Screen? xD
 * 15:58, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * During beta where datamined info is common... at wowwiki we really need to see an in-game screenshot before we can start letting model images with gray backgrounds in... this goes for all bosses. 16:04, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Found one: I suspect the weapon he's wielding may be just a placeholder, though. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:25, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I hope so lol
 * 16:28, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean all that Molten Core grinding he did was for nothing? --Joshmaul (talk) 17:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * No player wields Sulfuras. They wield an upgraded Sulfuron Hammer with an Eye of Sulfuras attached. Cho'gall just made his own.-- 17:23, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Dual Mind
Now, bear with me here, i'm not saying split personality or schizophrenia. But from a few of the encounters i've had with him it seems as if his right head is rational (as far crazy, two-headed monstrosities hellbent on Armageddon go he's somewhat lucid) while his left seems rather emotional which leaves me to think that both brains in each respective head literally is two halves of the same insane and genocidal coin.

What say ye, aye or nay? --Quetzatoul (talk) 15:41, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * He has two brains. They seem to have some kind of dynamic going on.-- 16:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * They're both evil as sin until Cho'gall's final moments, where the "Cho" head begins to feel the reality of his actions - "What have we done, brother..." etc. "Gall" on the other hand goes on a caps crusade about "MORE MADNESS" and hysterical cackling. Kellykins (talk) 17:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Isn't there even a quest in which a NPC revers to the two heads as one sane and one insane?--LemonBaby (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * It does seem like he has only one brain. Brain hemispheres each control opposing sides of the body (the left hemisphere controls the right sight of the body and vice versa). Speech is usually laterized to the left hemisphere and several forms of delusion are a result of damage in the right hemisphere. As Cho'galls right head seems to have the best ability of speech of the two and his left head seems somewhat delusional, I think it's very probable that he has only one brain. Emotions are usually bilateral though (both hemispheres involved). An explanation for the dynamic between the two heads could be a partially damaged link between the hemispheres (the corpus callosum), but I think this is a bit farfetched. Perhaps the dynamic originates from the fact that he has two heads each predominantly controlled by one hemisphere. Raiking (talk) 15:56, 30 May 2011 (UTC+1)

Old Horde ogres were Breakers?
What's the source for most of the Old Horde's ogres coming from the Breakers and not the Gorian Empire? --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 21:43, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Rise of the Horde's take on the gronn and Krol. The Gorian Empire was not made up yet, so when the ogres joined they were not a factor.-- 21:55, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Cho & Gall
Would HotS be a good source for Cho´gall´s two "personalities" / names of his heads? Currently, it´s implied in a RPG book. --Mordecay (talk) 19:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not not sure but at the very least it could be a trivia note.--X59 (talk) 00:58, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Manga, Stasia, Garona, Ahn'Qiraj
I think the timeline is very wrong in the paragraph regarding Cho'gall's flight to Kalimdor. Some information looks distorted and I think there may be missing points. Does anyone else think the same?-- K IROCHI  ) 10:59, 15 June 2016 (UTC)


 * What seems to be incorrect and missing exactly? --Mordecay (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Rough estimate of his age?
Has Cho'gall's age ever been determined? He seems to have been middle aged even when Drek'thar was young, which could put him at 90s for his time of death. It could be used to help the Lifespan section on Ogres. Gann Stonespire (talk) 03:44, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Before Chronicle Volume 2, it had been established that Cho'gall was found by Gul'dan when he was still young and was trained carefully in the arts of the arcane of the Twisting Nether. So presumably not that old. Xporc (talk) 12:30, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

1 head to 2 heads
Warcraft_II:_Tides_of_Darkness_manual describes Cho'gall as "Initiate of the fifth circle of the Shadow Council", and says he tutored himself in magic prior to the Horde passing into Azeroth. Guldan's log also establishes that he was already an Ogre-Mage prior to them even planning the attack on Stormwind:
 * "Two chieftains arose who were well respected and feared by the various clans - Cho'gall, the Ogre-Mage of the Twilight's Hammer clan, and Kilrogg Deadeye of the Bleeding Hollow clan."

I think the question here though is: does being an Ogre-Mage pre-Azeroth mean that Cho'gall must have been intended to have 2 heads?

What we do know is that something happened in northern Lordaeron (in Quel'Thalas, the Plaguelands of Caer Darrow) to create Ogre-Magi:
 * The Ogre-Magi were originally a small band of extremely loyal Ogre enforcers, transformed by Gul'dan into scheming and malicious sorcerers.
 * By warping and twisting the Elf-magiks of the Runestone at Caer Darrow, Gul'dan was able to infuse the magical abilities of long dead Warlocks into the bodies of these unsuspecting hosts.

A stark contrast is the WC1 ogres had 1 head but the pre-magi Ogrs of WC2 have 2 heads. It's worth noting that Ogres actually had TWO descriptions in the WC1 manual...

Monsters description:
 * Brethren to the Orc clans, these brutes have less intellect and more strength, making them a fearsome opponent in any battle.
 * Often found dwelling in secluded areas of the kingdom, they do not like to be disturbed.
 * They are ponderous and necessarily single-minded to the task at hand, which is usually the killing of anyone they do not recognise.
 * Their massive jaws and glazed eyes give them the look of a crazed animal, and they have the temperament to match.

Creatures of the Land description:
 * The Ogres came through the portal that brought the Orcs to this land.
 * Their blood hatred of the Orcs remains second only to their hatred of humans.
 * They are a vicious opponent, with the strength to rip off a warrior's limbs should they so choose.
 * The Ogres favor huge, spiked clubs that they use to bash in the skulls of their enemies and to bring down the large prey they hunt.
 * Ogres favor lands not frequented by the Orcs, and are seldom seen near the encampments.

The latter describes more racial animosity which could explain why Kil'rogg and Cho'gall were prone to infighting.

The ogre mage article presently reads:
 * Gul'dan then turned to the ancient arcane rituals that were once used by the Highmaul ogres to create two-headed ogres.
 * Few living ogres knew of this technique, but Gul'dan's follower Cho'gall was one of them

Cho'gall knowing of the technique perhaps means he might've already used it (pre-Azeroth) to become an Ogre Mage? Maybe from some source other than the Lordaeron/QT runestone? Some equivalent probably existed in Goria runes.

It seems conspicuous though that the basic two-headed ogres (non-mage) are everywhere though. It's like they're sort of like "halfway prepped to be magi" already when compared to the 1-headed versions in WC1.

Prior to the 6th mission The Badlands (WC2 Orc) where Cho'gall makes an appearance I don't think you can play Ogres, AFAIK they first appear in the next (7th) mission The Fall of Stromgarde (WC2 Orc) where a Mound is first buildable. You actually start of with a pair of two-headed ogres (that's 4 heads) recapturing transports.

Those two missions are still part of the 2nd Stromgarde act though... it's not until the 3rd mission where Quel-Thalas is actually invaded. Mission 8 is The Runestone at Caer Darrow (WC2 Orc) where Gul'dan is said to have located the runestone, so he couldn't have already used it to make the 2-headed pre-mage ogres you had already used. He doesn't figure out to use the stone until the next mission The Razing of Tyr's Hand (WC2 Orc)

That said, the sequence of the orc campaign is probably not to be relied upon too heavily since it has a non-canon outcome (alliance defeat) since Beyond the Dark Portal establishes that the humans won ("the Fall of Lordaeron" didn't happen... yet) so divergence happened at some unknown points, including perhaps earlier access to Ogre Magi.

The Battle at Darrowmere (WC2 Human) is humans' 9th where Uther goes to Caer Darrow and while you only fight 2H ogres, it's notable that Ogre Magi had appeared in the preceding mission Tyr's Hand (WC2 Human) implying that Gul'Dan had already been there. I think it was the mission just before that (7th) where you first meet the pre-mage 2H ogres in Grim Batol (WC2 Human)

Perhaps mageification is a multitier process and Gul'dan had already done some of it to nurture 2H ogres but needed the runestone to finish the job, especially since most were stupid. Cho'gall probably being an exception as a pre-Azerothian self-taught .Tycio (talk) 01:52, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * it's kind of hard to tell what you're saying, what with all these tangents. i assume you're asking if cho'gall must have had one head at some point? if that's it, i'd say no, we currently have no reason to think that's the case because it's never been alluded to at all. i would say he was probably born with two heads, and that allowed him to teach himself magic, since natural-born two-headed ogres are smarter & have an affinity for spellcasting. (if i recall, that info is from Chronicle 2) Eithris (talk) 02:28, 23 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The idea that the number of heads is what separates caster and non-caster ogres is an invention of WoW, where mobs tended to have basic, caster, and heavy models.--Sandwichman2448 (talk) 02:10, 24 February 2021 (UTC)