Talk:Ogre

History
The ogre history section looks to be in desparate need of an update with new lore made apparent in Burning Crusade and the Rise of the Horde pocketbook. I think the whole thing about orcs enslaving and generally killing ogres is either completely false now, or at least misrepresented in this section. Their classification as Draenor's last giants is dubious at best. And wars between ogres and orcs being fueled by demonic influence doesnt match any timeline i know of. When the Horde was being built up by Kil'Jaeden, the ogres were eventually brought into the fold and fought alongside the orcs.

Laughing Skull Clan
Is the Laughing Skull Clan really an Ogre tribe or just an Orc clan with Ogre members (and maybe leadership)?
 * --Fandyllic 10:29 AM PST 22 Dec 2005


 * Thats a good question.. I've only seen it referred to as ogre, so I'm assuming they're one of the many ogre tribes that broke away from the Horde. --Anticrash 14:04, 22 Dec 2005 (EST)


 * I believe that the Laughing Skull Clan was a clan of orcs that we're just lead by an ogre. There's a handful of mobs in Hellfire Citadel with Laughing Skull in their name (Laughing Skull Enforcer, ect.), and they are all orcs. --Jpsblue 03:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes its an orc clan, lead by an ogre.Baggins 04:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * When you fought them in WCII: Beyond the Dark Portal, they had orc warriors. Also, in Hellfire Citadel there are mobs who belong to the Laughing Skull Clan who are either orcs, or very small green ogres. I think it's safe to say they are an orc clan who happen to be led by an ogre. ~ Grudgham (talk) 18:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Ogre females
Perhaps we have seen female ogres,but they just look the same as the male ones,like female dwarves in LOTR. Angry ogre

...or we saw an artwork of an ogre female in Warcraft I.13:06, 10 December 2006 (EST)

A lot of things from WC1 were retconned out of existance like the whole Sargeras disaster and Garona being a half orc, half human. Angry ogre

Garona being half orc is still part of history, see Horde Player's Guide, and Sargeras/Medivh thing is still part of the history as well. You don't know what you are talking about. Strangly that book still implies her to be half-human, but Brann explains he doesn't know how it could be possible, but he can't think of any other possibilities, and he thinks it is not likely she is "half-draenei".

Also apparently now have another image of a female ogre in WoW, Carved Ogre Idol; Baggins 04:57, 26 December 2006 (EST)


 * Uh, right. -- Fandyllic (talk) 1:20 PM PST 30 Dec 2006

If that statue is not supposed to female or ogre, its still bloody ugly. But it is discribed as being ogre, and it certainly looks female.Baggins


 * Knowing Blizzard, they would probably made ogre females not-that-bad-as-a-male-of-the-same-race looking (sth like orc or troll females), etc. --Sul&#39;jin 17:11, 30 December 2006 (EST)

I removed both of the images. The idol icon has been used for many things long before the relatively new TCG reward, including trogg idols in the Loch it similarly resembles, besides, it could an ogre male as much as an ogre female (especially the original fatter version). The other picture, in the Warcraft I manual, does not state what it is supposed to be. In addition, I've heard before it was supposed to be Blackhand's daughter, Griselda, which seems to fit her ugly icon.


 * Oh, come on, that is not a male idol. 22:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not a murloc, either. But it is also used as the image for the Crude Murloc Idol. —Qit el-Remel 15:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I woudn't be surprised if it was representive of the Murloc's "Deep Mother", goddess.Baggins 04:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What you just said and the shape of the icon used for such things made me think of the b movie Humanoids from the Deep...
 * I'm sure the people in charge of quests had to decide between the aforementioned icon and the severed murloc head icon and thought the stone female figure was a better pick. --Super Bhaal 06:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Its actually kind of Lovecraftian, Innsmouth Deep Ones stuff and Dagon, and his mate, Mother Hydra (which btw, is often portayed as a big grotesque bloated humanoid fish, with huge breasts).Baggins 06:06, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Its no wonder they hide their females ... good lord... I wouldn't want to show them off either. 20:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I suppose to quote, Benjamin Franklin, "And as in the dark all Cats are grey..."Baggins 20:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * the ogre female? good lord they are ugly. <- look at the thing!!!

WoW Fan Story Writer (talk) 03:32, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Ogres as Horde race
I'm adding ogres to horde races because of the Stonemaul clan. --Brickster

Hey don't remove Ogres from Horde races. The Stonemaul ogre may not be playable but they are part of the horde much like how high elves are not playable yet are part of the alliance. --Brickster

Gronn and Ogres
I reverted the change by Loreguy, because it appears to contradict the Burning Crusade bestiary lore about the Gronn. -- Fandyllic (talk) 9:18 PM PST 6 Nov 2006

The gronn are not a type of ogre. The gronn are the forebears of the ogres and the more gronn-like ogre lords. An analogy could be drawn between the ogre/gronn descendancy and the dwarf/earthen relationship. Point is, gronn shouldn't ever be considered ogres. Just as earthen would never be considered dwarves, even though they are similar.


 * Point of note, while earthen and dwarves are not quite the same thing, earthen were called dwarves quite early on.Baggins 06:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Language
Ogres speak Low Common, as per Horde Player's Guide, 2006, and earlier guides. Unless Burning Crusade established something new?Baggins 13:36, 24 November 2006 (EST)
 * That's ridiculous! I don't know what the person who wrote the HPG was thinking when he implied that the ogres spoke low-common, but it's impossible. The ogres come from Draenor, the Common language originates on Azeroth. Languages do not spread from one world to another. If anything, they should speak either an ogre language or low-orcish. If someone at Blizzard is reading this, please retcon post-haste. ~ Grudgham (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

How did the ogres get to Kalimdor?
If the Ogres came to Azeroth with the Orcs and then left them after the humans won in warcraft 2, and the orcs never got to Kalimdor till Thrall crossed the sea, how did they get to Kalimdor on their own? Do they have giant ogre ships somewhere? Since they lack a swimming animation I assume they didn't swim. Jalben 00:00, 17 February 2007 (EST)
 * Just cause something may not have a certain animation in WoW, doesn't mean they can't do said thing. 05:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly, didn't you play WCII? Ogre Juggernauts anyone? Omacron 19:27, 10 March 2007 (EST)

True, they got juggernaughts, but why did they sail to Kalimdor? Did they just suddenly feel like it or did Medivh show up in front of some ogre chieftain? -Rovdyr 01:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * By the same way that Rexxar come to Kalimdor :D-- 01:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Floatation wings? --Super Bhaal 06:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

After the Second War the Alliance reigned triumphant, orcs, ogres and trolls largely ununified and left to fend for themselves. One day an ogre lord sez: Hey! Me Got Floating House! and subsequently his clan got into the boats and set sail for Quel'Thalas to help the Amani but somehow wound up on Kalimdor. Ogres make poor navigators...... --Quetzatoul (talk) 10:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Page
Ok...not sure whether anyone else has this problem (I am using Firefox) but one line is invisible due to the pics of ogre females...

I have no idea how to fix it but thought you'd like to know...

Ogre mages
I really dont understand ogre mages. The first ones were created artifically by Gul'dan. How did they end up all over the WoW world? Since the war they were in was along time ago in WoW time, how are they all over. Did he make ogre mage females? Or maybe they had kids with regular ogre women. Can they even have children since they were dead ogres made by Gul'dan? Is someone making more and thats why theyre in Loch Modan, Dire Maul, SW Stockades? Mr.X8 19:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm finding it hard to get the gist of your request for explanation, possibly because it is made up of a number of contrasting questions. Still, I'll try my best to explain.
 * Many ogres tribes have dispersed across the world since the end of the Second War, making their homes practically everywhere in Azeroth. Ogre mages have been - since their creation at Caer Darrow - an integral part of every tribe, so naturally they can also be found almost everywhere that you can find ogres. However, most ogre mages are now either old, insane (wouldn't you be?) or dead; and thanks to the fact that they are artificial constructs made from two seperate beings through ritual, any offspring (if at all possible) is of the single-headed type. Don't think that ogre mages are incredibly common; a tribe of over a hundred will often include only a couple of two-headed ogres. The ritual for creation is difficult and needs very specific conditions, not to mention the fact that it must be carried out at an Altar of Storms.
 * As for two-headed ogre females; it is entirely possible that they exist. However, no ogre females have appeared in-game yet so we'll have to wait and see if some are also two-headed.
 * Does that help? --

Yes. thank you :) Mr.X8 14:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

What about hunters?
Cant ogres be hunters. I mean they are a primitive race and alot of primitive races are hunters. Mr.X8 00:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have never seen an ogre use a rainged weapon, they are too clumsy to aim, and their battle stratagy unless under a particurly intelligent leader is SMASH! They would likely eat their pet.-- 00:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

LoL, I wouldnt think they're THAT stupid as too eat their pets and not be able to shoot a ranged weapon. Mr.X8 19:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'm pretty sure they could have hunters, beastmaster class kind of comes out of hunter class, and many beastmasters were ogres (it is one reason why many half-ogres become beastmasters), IIRC.Baggins 20:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Ogres are supringsly very intune with nature. Which is why ogre half breeds(even human ones) have an incredible bond with animals. Ogre hunters would be more like beast masters then rangers. Zarnks 06:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Not according to the savagekin druids, Zarnks Mr.X8 03:38, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

There are some ogre hunter mobs in nagrand, they throw spears but don't use pets. most ogre tribes in blades edge have tamed wolves and raptors, but these are normal mobs, again, not pets.Tweak the Whacked 11:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Two headed Ogres are different then Ogre-Magi?
I was reading somewhere that two headed ogres are different then Ogre-mages? I thought Gul'dan split the ogre down the middle, sewed them up and had the orcs posses them which is how they have 2 heads. Does anyone know if the 2 headed ogre are different them ogre-magi? Mr.X8 00:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "I thought Gul'dan split the ogre down the middle, sewed them up and had the orcs posses them which is how they have 2 heads."
 * I can guerrentee that's not how it happineged. Ogre mages are not "abominations", they are also not "flesh golems". All he did was imbue magic in developing ogres, and it mutated them into having two heads. Again it was a "mutation" not a physical construction. BTW, this is the second or third time you have asked a question about Ogre-magi, and I think we have given you similar answers previously, that htey are different than the original ogres.Baggins 00:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ettin are that.-- 16:19, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where, I know that as citations go that is virtually useless) that during the experimentation at the Altar of Storms, Gul'dan created some ogre magi (which we saw in Warcraft II) some of whom were highly intelligent (like Cho'gall) and some of whom were not. It's entirely possible that the unintelligent ones soon lost their ability to perform magic (because they were too damn dumb) and became warriors and, in some cases, warlords. When you look at the make up of ogre tribes throughout the warcraft games since Warcraft II, it's entirely possible that the two headed ones, after the Second War when the ogres left the Horde, became completely integrated back into ogre society, with the magi still performing arcane and, in some cases, fel magic, and the less intelligent two headed ogres became warriors just like regular ogres. Hope that helps. ~ Grudgham (talk) 18:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Not another Ogre-mage question, I swear
In the article it says there are some tribes that bowed to the Alliance and the Horde since they defeated the tribe's leader. Their examples are 2 tribes that are for the Horde. How do we know of any Ogre tribes that are for the Alliance. Now I read the Laughing Skull clan allied with the Alliance to gain control of the Blade's Edge Mountain. But thats an orc tribe lead by an ogre. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * The Laughing skull even left, Mogor joined the warmaul.-- 01:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Ogres were not slaves to the Horde in the second war
Rise of the Horde shows they joined as an alternative to the Gronn Zarnks 02:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

True, and many were treated with respect, though several factions, specifically Gul'dan, treated normal ogres as slave labor.Tweak the Whacked 07:34, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Rise of the Horde shows one or two clans joining but doesn't show all the clans. Later ogres ended up leaving the Horde because they were treated as slaves, or just mistreated. There is huge number of resources that point out this fact.Baggins (talk) 17:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Not twice as smart.
While having two heads does not make them twice as smart if both heads are stupid, two headed ogres can have the potential for being twice as smart as most races can ever be comes into play if magically augmented. In WCII the first ogre mages enhanced by Gul'dan's magic were as they put it 'not brainless anymore' and the ogres of the magically bathed Ogri'la comments seem to support this. In an unrelated note, does the apostrophe in a two headed ogre's name divide each head's name? Like Cho'gall was Cho and Gall? I remember reading that somewhere circa WCII.-- 00:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "Twice as smart" doesn't really make sense anyway, since "smartness" isn't quantifiable ;) 00:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you're right about the names. The only exception I can think of is mogor,as most two-headed ogres have their first and last half of their name seperated. A two-headed ogre can function like one super intelligent being rather then two individuals in the same body if the heads are close enough. Zarnks 00:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Regular 'intellegent' brain > Two brains of an ogre. Two enhanced ogre brains > Smarter than one brain can ever be. Intellect varies from person to person to person, race to race, but I am trying to compair with an educated and quick mind (But not as much as to be sued by the less gifted).-- 01:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Coincidentally I was reading Abigail and Brittany Hensel earlier.Very interested stuff. 01:07, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a topic that depends on which ogres you are talking about. The base-type ogre;


 * Some ogres have two heads. Unfortunately, two ogre heads are not better than one — the heads rarely get along with each other, and twoheaded ogres are just as dumb as their one-headed brethren. A two-headed ogre is not different from a one-headed ogre...


 * Which points out that intelligence among other things is the same in both types of ogres. Having more than one head doesn't make them more or less intelligent.


 * Then the Ogre-magi which are smarter than the basic ogres;


 * Like normal ogres, some ogre magi have two heads. Their heads usually get along with each other. A two-headed ogre mage is not different from a one-headed ogre mage...


 * Which points out that intelligence, among other things, the two brains doesn't increase their intelligence as "one giant brain". But the either one headed or two headed ogre-magi are equally the same, but smarter than regular ogres.


 * Then there is the Ogri'la ogres, its unclear how smart the ogres are, but may be smarter than ogre mages. Some of the two headed ones claim to be doubly smart because of two brains apparently. Although this is unclear if this is true or an exaggeration on the part of the ogre or not, or perhaps form of biased hyperbole. Here's hoping we can learn more about them in some spinoff source heh heh.Baggins 16:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dentarg used a two-headed ogre model in Warcraft II, but he always spoke as a singular being. It is entirely possible that he had one super intelligent head and another not-so-intelligent one that never spoke, or that he had just the one personality but two heads to use it with (personally, I like that image better... I always imagined Dentarg talking and eating at the same time and it gave me giggles). ~ Grudgham (talk) 18:55, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Population
Does anyone know where the population total of a little less than 10'000 came from? I calculated the ogre population totals from Lands of Conflict/Mystery, and came out with 5510. --Austin P 13:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, speculation? I don't think MoM or Horde Player's Guide went into any numbers for ogres.Baggins 16:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I hate to leave a citation up when I don't think there's anything to be cited, but the books do give estimates on the Ogres population. Here's all of the data from Lands of Mystery/Conflict.

The Blasted Lands: 1'100 The Burning Steppes: 900 Deadwind Pass: 750 Duskwood: 1'000 The Badlands: 200 Feralas: 700 (May not be the total for both of the clans) Taranis: 300

The total for Alterac Valley isn't directly given, although it says that the population of Alterac City is 1'000. The population for Dustwallow Marsh is given as 400, but the population of Brackenwall Village is listed as 1'000. The populations for Stranglethorn Vale, Loch Modan and the Arathi Highlands aren't given.

Given all of the data, the population of ogres on Azeroth is probably around 10'000, but whether it's below or above is impossible to determine. --Austin P 16:35, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Remember Brackenwall is also made up of more than just ogres. Its a Horde village, and has a few trolls, orcs, tauren, etc. Implication there is that 400 are ogres, the rest are other Horde members.Baggins 04:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Mount
I count running at the same speed as a horse,a mount. If self powered flight counts for the nathrazhim why not ogre plains running? Zarnks 20:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know what language you speak, but in english a "mount" is something you get onto to ride. Using your own legs does not fit the definition of "mount" in any language, even if you call it "shank's mare". Personally I don't think self-powered flight should count.Baggins 20:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Though not appropriate for this, but for natively flying races mount should be something like "not required" or "N/A". 23:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

If an ogre ever has a mount it would probably be the clefthoof from Outland. Seems like the only creature in Outland capable of supporting their bulk.

If plains running doesn't count as a mount then neither does self-powered flight. So perhaps we should remove it from all the flying races pages. Jormungand01 (talk) 15:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The goblins used Ogres as mounts sometimes. I think the Ogres are too big for mounts. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 01:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * yeah i agree with the clefthoof idea. ogres are fat and its even more fat! (well not really) WoW Fan Story Writer (talk) 03:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Tauren have kodos, which are about the same size as clefthooves. Originally they were just going to have plainsrunning, but this was changed for balance. So I reckon clefthooves would go well with ogres. 15:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Fully agree with clefthooves. I have included this on my page  Racial Mount Ideas. Starvethedead (talk) 05:29, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Picture
What happened to their old picture? Mr.X8 22:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Notable Ogres
i keep adding ogres but they dont show up! cholchester1221


 * Cho'Nammoth is an undead, and its only speculated that he was an ogre.


 * Rexxar is a half-ogre, and is listed in the half-ogre article, and you aren't using a correct icon for half-ogres.


 * and Cho'gall is an ogre mage, and is listed in the ogre mage article. Zakolj 17:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

i understand the first 2, but Cho'gall is an Ogre!


 * Ogre mages are a seperate race actually. Or technically a sub-race, if you will. Yes Cho'gall was an ogre mage.Baggins 02:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Theory on how the ogres got to Kalimdor
They evolved from thunder lizards (proof. The credits of warcraft III Rein of chaos; credits after you defeat the game. --The last Alterac 08:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The credits are a silly little animation, not canon. And that theory is complete and utter garbage in every way.  You're insinuating that a race of reptiles could evolve into a race of mammals identical to ones from another planet in the span of two decades. Please, stop posting your ridiculous theories on these talk pages.  They are for discussions on improving articles.  They are not a forum. -- Dark T Zeratul 10:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I made that edit in a responce to an above question on how they got to Kalimdor (But I was afraid no one would of read it) --The last Alterac 06:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

There is a perfectly sensible explanation. They simply sailed there with the orcs. Jormungand01 (talk) 15:15, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Children
Are there any ogre children in WoW? I saw what I think are ogre children, Tork and Torki, at Ogri'la.--Mistertrouble189 (talk) 15:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think those are younger Ogres but I am not sure how old they are or if they are children. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 01:57, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Lightly armored one-headed ogres
Those ogres wearing a shoulderpad, chestplate and bracers seem to be unusally rare (and only in about two or three flavors!). I've checked the model viewer and it seems that there are a number of other color schemes for them. Are any of these other textures (for example, pale with blue armor) used in-game? -- 12:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Female picture
It should be duly noted that the supposive female ogre is never labeled as such and is merely put next to the words "creatures of the land" in the manual. The idea of it being an ogre is speculation. Zarnks (talk) 02:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a good chance that it is an ogre. First, the ogre is a creature of the land. Second, of all the creatures of the land, that picture doesn't look like any of the others except the ogre. Third, a majority of images, that I have seen at least, do not actually have a caption on them, and so you must tell what the picture is of by looking under what section it is in or what subject it is put next to on the page. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:13, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Its speculation, theres a chance to it but it should not be presented as absolute fact. Of note is that ogres simply resembled giant barbarian humans in Warcraft I. They did not have two heads or body fat. They looked nothing like that picture, making it unlikely it was intended to a female ogre. Zarnks (talk) 03:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, ogres were more similiar to orcs than humans. That picture of the "female ogre" doesn't have two heads and also ogres did look a bit big so I have no idea what you mean. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 04:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * But think, it's obvious that is an ogre: Obviously it's not an spider nor a scorpion, it's not a slime, not a daemon, not an skeleton, not an elemental. They are just left Brigand and Ogre, do you really think she is a human? Just think and you will conclude she is an ogre. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 05:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. The only creature that image looks like under the section of Creatures of the Land is either an ogre or a really big mutated Brigand. LOL Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:26, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

As I said earlier Ogres looked just like giant humans in Warcraft I, they didn't have blubber or yellow skin. For all we know it could have been griselda or a planned creature in the game. Saying it is an ogre is writing down speculation as if it were fact. Zarnks (talk) 05:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * How are you getting yellow skin from a black and white picture? Also, ogres do look like they have blubber to me. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

From the sprites of Warcraft I where ogres had normal human colored skin. The ogres in the art and game were portrayed as lean unlike the chubbier ogres in later games. They weren't fully developed until Tides of Darkness. Zarnks (talk) 05:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I am looking at the art and game portrait picture of the ogres from Warcraft I right now and I don't see any lean ogres. They look similiar to many of the ogres in later games. The biggest difference I can find is that a lot of ogres are wearing helmets in Warcraft I which I am pretty sure some can be found wearing helmets in later games. The ogre game portrait looks similiar to that image and the art of the ogres in the Warcraft I manual looks similiar to that image. The image is right above the entry for ogres and that image does not look like any other creature except the ogre. The majority of the evidence points to that image being an ogre more than not an ogre. That is all from me. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 06:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Look harder. Ogres were not fat in Warcraft II. The only reason why you think so is probably because of the Horse's body mass in the picture. Ogres were not fat nor yellow skinned in the earlier games. For reference look at this picture. . Make note of the lack of fat or yellow skin. Lots of Warcraft races have changed appearance alot through the years and this is nothing unusual.

The female creature being an ogre is speculation pure and simple. Nothing more needs to be said Zarnks (talk) 06:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * But then what? If they aren't fat and yellow what does it had to do with that female creature. First the image lack of color so we don't know if it was yellow or not or whatever, and what does the ogres being thin has to do with this discussion? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * One problem is he doesn't know what he is arguing about. First, he started with the argument that the image wasn't an ogre. Now he went off into how ogres in Warcraft I do not look like ogres in later games. The image is in Warcraft I so it has nothing to do with later games. Also, the female "creature" does not have a horn either so it actually fits with your idea that "ogres changed in later games". So the only evidence you have left is that ogres are "lean" and the image of the female creature isn't "lean". Well how do you know what female ogres look like? They don't have to be exactly the same as the males you know. Just look at the other cases of races. So that could be a female ogre. Also, did you see that image of the ogre eating a horse? It doesn't look like ogres care how "lean" they look since they eat anything they want it seems. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It isn't labeled as anything so it being a female ogre is pure speculation. It's short with bizarre elongated feet, and pointed ears. The only identifying feature it shares with ogres is being fat which Warcraft I ogres didn't possess. You could make as much of an argument for it being Griselda or a cut monster. This argument is over until you find a statement from Blizzard that it is a female ogre. Zarnks (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * While not labeled and just on the Creatures of the Land title page, it is most likely a female ogre. The lack of explicitness may prove enough to add the word 'speculation' in some tense somewhere, but I feel there is something else going on here. Not personally attacking him, Zarnks seems to have lobbied against this picture more than once on different pages, with inconsistent points against it. If these points remained consistent I would call him determined, but it seems that the image is merely disliked with increasing retroactive justification. What is really wrong with the image?-- 00:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I just felt like voicing my opinion. Zarnks, what really makes you think this is anything but a female ogre? If Benitoperezgaldos was right (I never read it myself) and the only two left after all those other creatures are brigands and ogres, ogres are really the only plauseible choice. I don't really think a brigand, no matter how much of an ugly son of a bitch he is, would really look like that. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 00:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't look like an ogre at all to me, the only thing that connects with an ogre is it's blubber. The ogre in the manual looks way different and is on a different page. More importantly it is not labeled anything, so calling it an ogre is entirely speculation. Zarnks (talk) 02:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually have the manual. The image is right above the ogre entry, although it does not say "hey this is an ogre". Once again, if you look at other images in RPGs and manuals, the majority don't have captions and say "hey look at me I am a..." but you must look at where the image is situated. Is it under a section about a particular race or class? Is it right next to an entry talking about a class or race? Also, the ogre entry shows an image of an ogre's face and another image of an ogre eating a horse. The "female" image's face looks just as ugly as the ogre's face. I still don't see where you are getting the image of "lean" ogres from though. Also, you have to remember this is a female. The naga female isn't a duplicate of the naga male right? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 03:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't look like an ogre at all to you because you haven't actually SEEN a female ogre, besides this, and according to you it isn't an ogre. So, how do you know it doesn't look like an ogre? Unless you seem to be assuming the only difference between males and females are anatomy, and nothing else. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If it was a female ogre it would have been next to the entry on ogres. The facial features are different, its very short with bizarre arms and legs. As you have no proof the page stays as is and I cease this discussion until you provide actual evidence. Zarnks (talk) 03:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess I have to say this for a fifth time. Females of a race do not always look like males of the race. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Rofl...did I just get completey ignored? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 11:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No. I am sure Zarnks will reply to you soon enough. LOL Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 11:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * To be fair the female ogre artwork has more in common with Warcraft I era ogre artwork (in manual and in-game) than later Warcraft II ogre artwork. The female's mouth is similar to the males mouths. The fat eyebrow is shared between the male and female. The tops of the ears are similar.Baggins (talk) 21:45, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Ogre - Future Horde Race?
this is why they should make ogres a new horde race in an upcoming expansion some ogres are already in the horde, plus alliance think ogres are... are... fat... they should be ashamed... the ogres currently do NOT have a female model in-game, but look at this! possibility! the ogres are NOT very intelligent. but perhaps ogre magi could be the race? or perhaps the ogres have learned from orcs? some ogres already hear armor in-game, so that could be used for a player race. stonemaul ogres arent the best choice, becasue they are already in the game. perhaps a new tribe has rised to the horde? the ogre mount would prolly be a big fat bunny. JK JK JK. no, prolly a lizard of some sort. the ogre city would be made somewhat like orgrimmar. only prolly buildings made of stone or sand. ogres are big, fat, and tall. gnomes are small, skinny, and short. they are perfect arch-enemies! lol well plz comment if u have any ideas or reasons ogres SHOULDNT be a playabe race. i can think of one thing.

no language! no unique language! that will be a major thing in the game! the ogres talk like "Me not as THINK as you DUMB i am!" i mean thats plain dumb for a horde race! (although, undead have no brains so, its kinda the same story. gutterspeak? its a joke) WoW Fan Story Writer (talk) 03:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The "Female Ogre Picture" really...
This is my first topic add on wiki, so if i get anything wrong it wont hurt too tell me. The Female ogre picture has been the topic of a Discussion or two that havent brought out any conclusive Answer, atleast not to me. After a careful examination of the picture and the discussion about it, i have come to the conclusion that this may very well be a female Trogg, as i have heard it discribed as a Creature of the Earth or something this really starts to fold into place. Im not sure how to place the picture next to this comment, but im sure anyone can see some similaritys (although those of a squeemish disposition may want to avoid the image all together:D.)

Quel Dragon (talk) 12:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It is most likely a female ogre. Warcraft I did not have troggs in it and in the manual the section is not called Creatures of the Earth where the image is located. Meanwhile, all the other images of "creatures" were in the game. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 13:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I guess if its from Warcraft 1 it must be a female ogre then, but you cant deny it looks a bit "Horrible". If Blizzard do make the Ogres a playable race i hope they come up with something slightly different. Thanks for clearing this up Rolandius

Quel Dragon (talk) 13:29, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well the male ogres have changed somewhat from Warcraft I to Warcraft II to Warcraft III to WoW, so the females will probably look different also. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 13:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

RPG info
Given that the Gronn didn't exist in the RPG, it's interesting that that paragraph keeps getting moved into the newly created RPG section, whether or not it (used to be) supported by the RPG, is it not from the novel Rise of the Horde? If not then the paragraph needs to be reworded to it's true wording. And the novel's info needs to be placed into the correct spot. 05:17, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like someone edited the RPG quote to include the Gronn.Copperblast (talk) 05:59, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * It was reconciliation, and not everything is a quote. The Horde Player's Guide says that ogres were enslaved by the orcs. Rise of the Horde says that they willingly joined the orcs to escape the gronn. The Burning Crusade seems to support both views, though only the latter is specifically mentioned.-- 19:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Native Azeroth Ogres
From the lore issues presented by the Gronn, and the Kalimdor ogres, isn't it possible that Azeroth has a native ogre population? Draenor and Azeroth shared quite a few species, so it doesn't seem entirely far-fetched. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Kalimdor Ogres came to Kalimdor after the discovering of the continent. If they were there before, it's goblins fault.--Cemotucu (talk) 19:07, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have no idea, but the two worlds don't seem to share any intelligent species.-- 19:13, 29 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The Warcraft III orc bonus campaign featured an already well-established clan of ogres, with less than the travel-time between EK and Kalimdor having passed (since Daelin proudmoore had only just arrived) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * That is assuming that all factions left the EK at the same time.-- 00:37, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Adding a second head?
How does adding a second head work? Did they just create a new head from scratch, other personality included? Or did they fuse two ogres together? Copperblast (talk) 17:17, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Some ogres are born with two heads. I think that the magical ones grow a new head, but I forget if I made that up or not. Tides of Darkness would have the answer... I think.-- 22:09, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That's my recollection as well. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Tides of Darkness said Ogre Magi were extremely, rare, and Cho'gall was the first in several generations, but I don't think it covered how artificially produced Ogre Magi work? Before Warlords of Draenor, I just thought it was just the Two Headed ogres that got turned into Ogre magi by Gul'dan, but we see in WoD several of the Two Headed Ogre Magi characters originally had one head. So I'm wondering does the new head grow with magical powers, complete with a second, new personality/identity, or are two ogres fused together? Whats also weird is some two headed ogres like Dagg'um Ty'gor, and Cho'gall act like two different individuals sharing a body, while others like Imperator Mar'gok, and Dentarg act like one individual aside from referring to themselves in plural. Copperblast (talk) 05:59, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Tides of Darkness (both the game and the book) made it very clear that Gul'dan was artificially making two-headed ogres. As to their personalities, the overall evidence would seem to suggest that naturally-occurring two-headed ogres (such as Mar'gok) are one individual with two heads, while those artificially created by Gul'dan (virtually all of the rest of them) have separate personalities. Cho'gall would seem to be an exception, being a natural two-headed ogre with separate personalities, but he's insane - and, in fact, his insanity and dual personalities may be causally related. Dentarg, on the other hand, would actually seem to be a retcon; despite having two heads in the game, every source since (including the novelization) has depicted him with only one. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:19, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Ogres' Forgers=Titans? (Request for heavy modification of three articles)
There is no way to link these "Forgers" to the Titans. Please provide a clear link, or else I'm going to erase ALL links between Ogres and Titans within two weeks.-- K IROCHI  ) 22:41, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Kosak did say that the Pantheon visited Draenor and shaped it a bit before quickly leaving. Given that the Titans' titles are usually "Makers", "Creators", it adds up. No direct link though indeed. -- ShellShockLive (talk) 23:01, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Titanic Evolution. --Mordecay (talk) 23:04, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Yup, I remember doing that quest and reading carefully (it also happened to be the hardest daily if your group couldn't be arsed to go the long way), but it's paper-thin evidence. The Forgers could be some of their ancestors, for all we know. Or the Old Gods. Humanoid species can occur without the Titans, and their lineage is proven to have elementals in them.-- K IROCHI  ) 23:15, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Maybe the Forgers=Titans theory should be in a Speculation section? It seems plausible, and highly likely to me, but if it has not been confirmed, it shouldn't show up as a fact.--Sega381 (talk) 23:29, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes! How do we do that?-- K IROCHI  ) 23:34, 5 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Just create a subsection near the end called "Speculation", and add the "speculation" tag underneath, such as the Speculation section in Qiraji (language). Then, just write a short paragraph explaining the potential relation between the Forgers and Titans, probably referencing both the quest and the |Blizzard Q&A mentioning Titans in Draenor. --Sega381 (talk) 00:02, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

The ogres have several titan relics that they use. At the end of Gorgrond, a clearly titanic relic is used to command one of the two factions to attack the Iron Docks. Ogres come from the Breakers. The connection is there.-- 00:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Chronicles 2 will have all our answers guys, only a few more weeks to wait. Xporc (talk) 08:42, 6 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Every single race is able to use relics made by gods that never created them, in a great many cases. For example, orcs have used relics of the Titans, of the Old Gods, of the Void, of the Legion, of the Naaru, and we still don't know who created them because it doesn't mean anything.
 * There's only two examples of Titan relics I can think of in the case of ogres. The connection is tenuous at best. It does not belong outside the speculation section.
 * I am willing to postpone the transfer of this rampant speculation until the release of and extraction of information from Chronicle vol. 2, but no further. Speculation has always had its place on WoWwiki and WoWpedia, and there is no reason to yield to paper-thin evidence based on isolated occurrences and the equation of vague deity denominations on separate worlds.-- K IROCHI  ) 10:12, 7 January 2017 (UTC)


 * By the way, how is the connection between ogres and the Breakers relevant here? Is there evidence for any kind of relationship between the Breakers and the Titans? I thought they were elementals, who can be created or led by any deity as far as I know.-- K IROCHI  ) 10:19, 7 January 2017 (UTC)


 * There is no explicit connection, but it is very widely assumed that their random actions are terraformation processes run wild. We know the titans visited draenor, and some of their relics are encountered. Two of which are the Heart of the Magnaron and the Will of the Genesaur: two relics using titan models that have the ability to command the Breakers and Primals respectively.-- 22:25, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Though there's no explicit evidence, the large amount of circumstantial evidence is, I think, enough to leave it at least until Chronicles Volume 2 comes out and presumably makes the matter clear. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:29, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree with Zeratul and Xporc.-- K IROCHI  ) 18:25, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Infobox image
The WoD concept art (File:Ogre var1.jpg) certainly isn't an ideal infobox image, being concept art with an empty white background and depicting an ogre with shoulder-spikes that are not seen on in-game ogres, but I still think it's better than File:Mogor the Ogre TCG.jpg due to the latter depicting an ogre mage rather than a standard one-headed ogre and because it doesn't really give a clear view of the whole body due to the action pose and the combatants in the foreground. Ideally I'd like to use the ogre artwork used in the Ultimate Visual Guide, the complete, full-body version of, but I have yet to find the full version anywhere online. -- 19:17, 26 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Update: I don't really like using File:Grug the Bonecrusher.jpg as the main image for the simple reason that he's armored and particularly the fact that he's wearing a helmet with three spikes on it, meaning it could give the false first impression that ogres have three horns on their head and you don't get to see what an ogre actually looks like until you scroll quite a bit down the page. It also doesn't give a view of the whole body, unlike the concept art. If the concept art is really unacceptable to use (though I personally don't see anything wrong with it), then I'd prefer if we used File:Zores, Herald of War TCG.jpg as the infobox pic instead. -- 09:39, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't mind using either of them, so whatever is decided should be fine. --Mordecay (talk) 12:42, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Uploaded another pic, where you see an ogre nearly in its entirety + the head from the front. Only issue is that there are logos on it but eh. -- MyMindWontQuiet 13:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Just mentioning that a art of Burth (one of the art estrangements) with a full body shown exists (as seen in WoW TCG World Championship in San Diego and World of Warcraft Darkmoon Faire Collector's Set Display Box), but I have yet to find a regular full version anywhere online. Mrforesttroll (talk) 14:30, 4 September 2018 (UTC)