Talk:Darnassus (nation)

Merge with "night elf"
This page feels pretty superfluous to me. "Darnassus" as a nation is almost always practically synonymous with modern night elves anyway, and from what I can see, most of the text on this page is either reciting content that's also mentioned on night elf, or is unique text that would do more good on the main night elf page, which is missing critical chunks of information and is what most people are going to go to when looking for information about night elves. (As of writing this, the Battle for Azeroth section on the night elf page still has no content except for a stub tag.) Put another way, it's weird to me that the modern history parts of the night elf page are so relatively underdeveloped while there's a much more detailed description on a completely separate page that most people aren't going to look at.

IMO it'd be best to merge this page with night elf and specifically copy over some parts of the sections about Warlords of Draenor, Legion, and Battle for Azeroth. I do think those would need to be shortened substantially by removing a lot of the more trivial details, though. (For example, the Legion homunculus questline is not really relevant and could probably be cut from the page entirely, while the bit about Tyrande rescuing Malfurion could probably be shortened to a single sentence.) -- 21:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Obviously I am biased in this discussion as I made this page - but I believe my arguments are quite valid. While there is truth to your point with the similarities between this page and the Night Elf-one, there is one important difference: One describes a race, another describes a nation. The Night elf society is a tricky example, seeing as they are almost all united under a single banner, but if we shouldn't differentiate between such elements as races and nations, many lore pages of various other kingdoms could go be deleted as well. But in my opinion, it's important to have both. --Amargaard (talk) 21:53, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Now that some night elves explicitly joined the Horde ... Xporc (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't see a problem with having both. PeterWind (talk) 22:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't mind having both, but maybe... somehow... some work could be done to differentiate the two histories better. --Mordecay (talk) 23:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * As they've said before, now there are other nelf groups out there. The race page should be focused on the race in general, i.e. their origins, a little about the Kaldorei Empire, a little about the Sundering and the thousands of years of vigil, and post WoW content. And also about the new undead nelves, and the ones who live in the Broken Isles. We could also talk a little about the Highborne in Northrend, the transformation of the nightborne, and the bb to the future belves to EK. The nation page could be more detailed in such things as politics, war, and conflict with the Horde. There's enough info for the two to coexist, it just needs to be worked. --Ryon21 (talk) 23:11, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The difference between night elves and something like humans and orcs is that humans and orcs are split into many distinctly different groups (kingdoms and clans, respectively). Generally when you talk about night elves, you're talking about them as a single unit united under one banner. Yes, there are non-Alliance night elves like the Forsaken ones, and individuals who are part of other factions, but IMO those are minor exceptions. It doesn't really make sense to me to create a separate massive page with the same content as the existing race page instead of just... improving the existing race page. I sort of get the argument about the nation page going into more detail about the military and government (not that that's information that couldn't just as well be put on the race page), but at the very least, including a "Culture" section on both seems redundant.
 * On another note, I feel similarly about Durotar (nation) and especially Gnomeregan (nation). -- 08:47, 12 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Hehe.. these are all pages I feel very strongly for - the latter is by my design as well. If I still had the same drive I had when I made these pages, I would make a nation-page for every single playable race for the same reasons. An example of notable difference being that this nation is not including the druids - which is a seperate, but related faction. The structure of the night elf society, its politics, culture and history can be covered here, while a race page could focus on the physical elements of the night elves and overall history from before the construction of Darnassus, and both the druids and sentinels and whatnot. --Amargaard (talk) 00:37, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Personally, if a race is mostly united and can't be more than one kingdom without becoming a subrace, then I see splits like this as redundant, but I lost that argument a long time ago.-- 03:13, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * "If I still had the same drive I had when I made these pages, I would make a nation-page for every single playable race for the same reasons"... Okay, but I'm not sure what good reason there would be to do that for races that are mostly united. Gnomeregan (nation) especially looks to me like it's just a rewrite of gnome, covering the same history and the same culture, and the few unique parts (factions and territories) could just be turned into sections on the race page.
 * I guess there is some argument to having a separate nation page for night elves, but descriptions of their societal structure, culture, and history are all basic and important information about the race that should absolutely still be kept on the race page, if you ask me. I guess this page could be kept for a more detailed description of their history and organization with every single tiny detail and subfaction that's too minor to mention on the race page. However, I still think it's redundant to have a "Culture" section on pages like this one and the Durotar and Gnomeregan nation pages since they're basically the same as the ones on the race pages. -- 14:00, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I think Durotar as a nation page fits a bit more in practice because of the issues with the Orgrimmar Faction compared to the Orgrimmar location. Durotar effectively acts as the lore page for the orc nation; as Orgrimmar the city is more horde oriented. To point, Durotar is led by Thrall, while Orgrimmar is led by the Horde Council. Orcs are also extremely broken up. I think this page could have a place as well; as Night elves are not all united under the Darnassus faction, with Cenarion Circle, Court of Farondis, whoever the Val'sharah elves are under, Eldre'thalas and other sub-factions and groups existing that aren't just subrace only. --Berenal (talk) 05:06, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I think that it is fairly clear that the druid orders are part of the Darnassus faction, and just work with the Horde.-- 00:09, 14 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Considering there's a fair amount of horde race members and one of their leaders is a tauren, I would not ever make that assumption. --Berenal (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Archdruid Hamuul Runetotem aside, the rest of their leadership are all night elves and they have never been at odds with Darnassus. Their respective leaders are married, and they have never really been separate.-- 21:24, 15 February 2020 (UTC)