Talk:Draenei/Archive1

Spelling of draenei [READ ME]
Ach, we need an official position on this ... Blizzard spells draenei without a capital letter, and I feel we should do the same. Agreed? -- Kirkburn 15:26, 4 August 2006 (EDT)


 * race Name a person's race only when it is relevant. I believe however, that we should adopt the lowercase, not for just draenei, but all the other ones too. I think "H"igh "E"lves and Blood Elves are the current offenders. Night elves, dwarves and all the other races currently use the lower case form. Pzychotix 01:11, 5 August 2006 (EDT)


 * We've been over this time and again. Adopting the lowercase is fine, as that's how the information appears on the site. However we have to be careful about editing articles. As Pzychotix demonstrated, we still need to capitalize in certain circumstances, so I don't want anyone trying to find and replace- we'll have to do it the old fashioned way. It would be good if we can get an official quote on this. --Ragestorm 12:15, 5 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Mostly this was jst checking, as someone did find replace on 'draenei' and changed it to 'Draenei', Rahskala in fact. I'll see what I can do about reverting it :) -- Kirkburn 18:21, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * I made the change to the capitalization in the article because it seemed right to me, but if others feel differently (and it seems they do), then so be it. --Rahskala 18:34, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Blizzard feel differently - we should take their word exactly. -- Kirkburn 08:46, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

I've put up a vote to make lower-case race names the standard policy. Wowpedia talk:Writing policy--Aeleas 14:16, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Pronunciation
Man Eye and Ma Nye don't match, nor do Dran-Eye and Drah-Nye. We've got three different ways of saying it from Blizzard people. It's all about a if it's a long A or not, and if the last syllable has the N sound in it, or if it's the end of the first.


 * Scott Mercer, one of the lead designers at Blizzard, pronouces it drah-NIGH. (rhymes with 'spa fry')
 * CM Tseric claims it is DRAY-neye. (rhymes with 'clay knee')
 * Lead designer Tigole says it a third way: dran-IGH. (rhymes with "man eye")

The big question is--

First syllable: Draw, Dray or Dran?

Second syllable: Knee, Nigh, or Eye?

Draw-Knee? Dray-Knee? Draw-Nigh? Dray-Nigh? Dran-Eye?

--Xmuskrat 14:43, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Mercer's pronunciation doesn't sound anything like the a in spa to me, just a standard unaccented short a (as in man) that's sometimes closer to a schwa (as in banal). "Man eye" is provided simply as a "rhymes with", so it shouldn't be taken as an absolute phoentic representation.  The n is going to be part of the second syllable (as in anode, banal, manor, Brunei)  unless a stop is inserted in the middle of the word, which I don't think anyone is advocating as it would be quite awkward.


 * As for Teseric's post, I think the intent was that "neye" would pronounced as as to rhyme with "eye". I don't think the thread was proposing it would rhyme with "knee".--Aeleas 15:38, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * As a matter of fact, the French pronounciation is the following : Druh-ay-nay (proper French spelling : Draeneï)--Kirochi 15:48, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

In-game in TFT, Kael pronounces it "Draa-NIGH"--Ragestorm 16:38, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * The War3 pronunciation is quite distinctly dra-'nI, while Mercer's tends more towards dr&'nI, using theM-W pronunciation guide.--Aeleas 17:46, 11 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Actually, listening to the War3 pronunciation again, the emphasis is on the first syllable: 'dra-nI.--Aeleas 11:00, 12 May 2006 (EDT)


 * I pronounce it "Dray-nye", Dray like rhyming with "Clay" or "Day", and nye as in Bill Nye the Science Guy. --Darkfox190 03:38, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

I say "Dray-IN-eye" where in and eye are prononced as normal. It has 3 syllables. YOu say potahto, I say potato... Charred But Alive 11:34, 22 June 2006 (EDT)


 * A little bird told me that the draenei introduction speech uses the War3 pronunciation, 'dra-nI.--Aeleas 14:22, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

Well, it's like saying "Shay-man" or "Shah-man". I say "Dray-nee" or occasionally "Dray-nay" but if you guys want to debate forever about how people should talk, I will leave you to your ranting. --Matanui


 * What about "She-man" by the way ? ;-D-- K )  (talk) 18:24, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Blizzard pronounces it "DRAN-eye". It's said so in the intro camera fly for the Draenei, and is said in many other things.

What actually happens in-game should always have precedence as canon. Therefore, it's my opinion that draan-eye is the correct pronunciation. That is how Akama, the first playable draenei we see in the game, refer to his race. So this should be the PROPER pronunciation, but not the ONLY pronunciation. For example, how British and Americans would refer to Michaelangelo as "Mai-kuhl-angelo" but the rest of the world uses the correct Italian "Mee-kel-angelo". It's simply accent differences, and I am sure the different races in their game all with their respective accents are going to pronunce it differently.

Obviously, noone is making an issue about trolls pronouncing "man" wrong as "mon", but it ultimately it doesn't matter, as this debate shouldn't.--Grid 12:10, 10 November 2006 (EST)

I think the "right" way to pronounce it is dran-eye, like in the draenei intro, but anyone pronounce it in the simpler way 4 his language, not everyone should pronounce it in english(I'm italian n I pronounce it Dru-a-nay)

Well, I pronounce like "dra-nye" ("A" as in "band", and "nye" rhymes with "eye") but my little brother says "dray-nee" --IbbertTheGnome 01:45, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

Racials

 * Blessing of the Naaru - heals the target of 50 damage over 15 sec
 * Gemcutting - Jewelcrafting skill increased by 15
 * Heroic Presence - Increases chance to hit with spells by 1% for all party members within 30 yards
 * Shadow Resistance - increased by 10

I can't verify these yet, but I'm working on it... --Xmuskrat 15:10, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

Wow Video seems to back this up. source --Xmuskrat 16:54, 10 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Someone needs to update the information for Blessing of the Naaru. According to here it now heals 10+3/level every 3 seconds for 15 seconds.. So at level 1 it heals 65 health, and at 70 it heals 1100 health.--Stormsinger 09:35, 28 September 2006 (EDT)

Update their priest racial info. They receive Symbol of Hope and Fear Ward.

Thanks alot for the Horde love Blizz. Geez.--Grid 20:11, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Draenei Mount
Draenei mount concept art: http://www.scrollsoflore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=58&pos=37

This is unconfirmed by blizzard at this time. --Aldaris

My revert was mostly for the continual capitalising of words, not so much for the uncertainty about the mount picture. We don't yet have confirmation that the picture does indeed show an elekk (unless someone can produce a source), though I do believe it seems very likely. I don't personally mind either way. -- Kirkburn

This picture was rumored to be draenei mount long ago (look up in discussion to draenei mount), but was not confirmed back then. Now we know it's a elephant alike creature, and the picture fits perfectly, but it's still not confirmed and even tho I strongly believe it indeed is elekk, I would rather wait for official info, Blizzard likes to suprise us recently.--Nea 18:36, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Its actually been confirmed, the creature is called the Elekk, in a recent Gamespot post. --Karye August 13, 2006

Show me exacly, when the article confirms this picture to be elekk.--Nea 04:57, 13 August 2006 (EDT)


 * From wowinsider there's apparently a link to a cavernsoftime site that contains pictures of the new draenei mount. I can't access it at the moment, (probably due to china isp problems) so if someone could go and check it out for me, we can confirm or deny whether or not that thing is the mount. Pzychotix 18:03, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

I posted this in the Elekk page, "The gamespot article describes the Elekk as 'a creature that bears more than a passing resemblance to a caparisoned war elephant.' And caparison is defined at dictonary.com as 'An ornamental covering for a horse or for its saddle or harness; trappings.' While yes this is not an offical blizzard release the description of the elekk is damn close enough to warrent an assumption that this is Draenei mount." And aside from that the various leaked videos and info proves the mount to be the elekk. --Karye 14:44 September 8, 2006 (PST)


 * Video of the Draenei mount in action! Elekk--Lokiri 01:04, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

Dranei Rumor Merge
Since we have an entire article on the Draenei Rumor in addition to the Rumored Races page, I think we can just link to that from this article, rather than reproducing all the arguments in a third place here. Where possible, it's nice to keep speculation to a separate article.--Aeleas 12:37, 16 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Nike : Just do it ;-) Good idea--Kirochi 13:50, 17 April 2006 (EDT)

Done. --Aeleas 20:47, 18 April 2006 (EDT)

Source of Corruption and Madness
Is there a source that clarifies how the draenei were mutated, and the Lost Ones driven mad? According to Magtoor, they were driven mad by the crossing to Azeroth. Caydiem stated it was the portal travels that mutated them as well, though obviously this wouldn't explain the Broken. What's the source for statement that the draenei are bound to Draenor in some special way?--Aeleas 20:47, 18 April 2006 (EDT)


 * For that one Draenei kind I do agree : I think the Broken look the way they do because of Outland's collapse.--Kirochi 04:55, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

The dimensional gateways emitted their own form of radiation, and when the planet was pulled apart, the energies of the Nether were added to the mix; those combined mutated the Broken, and explains why they look more like Draenei than the Lost Ones. --Ragestorm 06:56, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Chances are, as I see it, there were 2 different societies of Draenei, apart from the Eredar. When they split, and made it to Draenor, they lived there for a long time, and some eventually broke off, much like the different species of trolls, and began to practice a seperate religion, and have a different culture. The first group stayed true to the Naaru, remaining priests, paladins and the like, worshipping The Light, as it were. The second group began to practice shamanism, stealth, and cunning. These 2 societies were the same species, but 2 different "sects". When Draenor was destroyed, it warped the shamanistic culture, who became attached to the land, unlike the Naaru group. --Haddon 23:47, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Mutations and Beauty
Most Demonic corruption takes place as much in the mind as it does the body and soul. In the Fictions I've read when someone becomes mutated they percieve their new form as more perfect and beautiful. They still see beauty in how their race normally looks but they found a new beauty in their new enhanced form. so anything from non-corrupted to very corrupted beings of the same race seems appealing.

to whomever wrote the above, I have three things to say: A) what sort of bearing does this have on ANYTHING? 2) What do you mean by Fictions? Fan Fictions? since when should they be regarded as relevant to the canon? and Zed) again, what does thi have to do with anything? --Ragestorm 16:52, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Also, in the Racial Offshoots and Factions section, it is mentioned that the Draenai have cloven hooves and walk digitigrade like a cat. This is incorrect. The term for walking on hooves is unguligrade. As per wikipedia: "Unguligrade animals (termed ungulates) are those which walk on the tips of their toes, typically on hooves. Examples include horses, deer, antelope, goats, and sheep. This enables them to extend their stride length and so move faster. By contrast digitigrades walk with most of the length of their digits, while plantigrades place the full length of their feet on the ground in each stride." --Trev81 04:13, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

I think Illidan Rocks wrote this, he often said this to defend Illidan ^^--Kirochi 17:41, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Illidan Rocks couldn't have written that; he hasn't posted here since december. --Ragestorm 08:30, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

Well, then if we really want to know who wrote this we're gonna have to delve deep in this page's history ... Unless someone knows the responsible.--Kirochi 14:26, 20 June 2006 (EDT)

Lost Ones Section
It may need some alterations in light that we know know that Dreanor is not the Draenei's original homeworld. Anyone up for the task?Baggins 16:51, 10 May 2006 (EDT)


 * I wonder what the Orcs called Draenor before the Draenei arrived, and why they refer to it as Draneor now. --Xmuskrat 16:53, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

Maybe it was, "Orcland", and "Outland" is a corruption of that original name, ;).

All joking aside

Maybe they didn't have a name for their world?

Come to think of it not everyone on earth calls our world earth, its had several names, Earth, Terra, Geb(by the egyptians IIRC), the Island, and I think some cultures didn't have any names for it as I recallBaggins 17:01, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

Something else I noticed, "Lost One" draenei in other sources were said to have come to azeroth after the destruction of Draenor(thus one of the reasons why they have the mutated look), not during the Orcish invasion. Maybe some citation is in order? I'll work on it from what I know, but if someone can link to where it says draenei came through during the initial orcish invasion, that would be handy as well. I can't remember all the details from the quests surrounding them since its been a while since I did any quests there.Baggins 10:40, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Hey guys, minor point there, but have you bothered looking the previous versions of that page before we knew all this about Draenei and Eredar was only about what we now call the "Lost Ones" or "Broken", because "Draenei" was the only name we knew they had; I think we should at least let a Lost One pic and insist on the fact that "Draenei" has meant (I quote some very clever guy here) "little potatoes with legs" since the beginning. Not very important though.-- K )  (talk) 19:37, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Crest/Naaru
I know it's a bit "out there' for a crest, but how is it one of the Naaru? --Ragestorm 19:58, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

While it may look like there is a picture of some kind of creature in the crest, we don't know that it is one specifically, nor do we know that it is a pictograph depicting a Naaru. ...or has something been announced that we have missed?-Baggins 20:01, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * I'm starting to get pissed at people who randomly change information on this wiki without even justifying what they do. I'll knock this back to Draenei crest again until such evidence arises.--Kirochi 23:41, 11 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Thanks Baggins for having found the picture's name. I'll change it back to naaru, and sorry to everbody.--Kirochi 08:24, 13 May 2006 (EDT)


 * Don't We have an In-game Photo now of the naaru?It clearly shows that is a floating pictogram.Also the beastiary shows that the naaru is clearly a Being and Samwise's drawing doesn't hint at anything of it being a crest. Hammerdin


 * Well the crest picture posted there now looks a lot more plausible as the Draenei crest and (tell me if I am not supposed to do this) I personally have seen presumably datamined pictures of Naaru in game models of Naaru at different angles. they are in fact rather flat floating glyphs. the one I saw looked exactly like the above mentioned picture drawn by Samwise, but at an angle.


 * Along the same lines as the above poster, I really wish we could get a beta picture of either Maaru (the captured Naaru that the Blood Elves are sapping for power) or even more preferably the Naaru at the Seat of the Naaru in Exodar. I am very interested to see exactly how large these creatures are in a screenshot, but I would be perfectly happy with a description or a comparison. Also, what is the Exodar Naaru called?
 * To answer my own question, I managed to find some pics of Naaru. They Vary in size I guess. I sent these pics to someone to upload to the Naaru page, so they should hopefully be up there soon. According to Thottbot, the Exodar Naaru is named O'ros, and its Ma'ru not Maaru who was captured by the Blood Elves. Garenas

I think it kind of looks like the Horde crest a little. Hmmmm, makes you think.Mr.X8 21:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Starting Zone Location
Are we absolutely sure where their starting zone is? I've heard it described as both "off the northeast coast of Kalimdor" and "between Teldrassil and Darkshore," which are opposing locations. The article currently takes the latter view, which I have heard reported by several reputable news and gaming news sources. However, the citation next to it points to the official website, which acutally states that the starting zone is off the northeastern coast of Kalimdor. (Which I have also heard, though from a smaller number of places.)

I realize the answer may simply be that no one knows for sure at this point given the differring information given by Blizz themselves and the journalists at E3. But doesn't it make sense to at least make sure our citations and the facts we're citing them for are in agreement? (i.e. either change the citation to a news source that corroborates the "Teldrassil" story or change the article to place them off the northeastern coast)

FWIW, I have trouble imagining fitting in a whole set of starting zones between Teldrassil and Darkshore, and it seems like it would really screw with the existing vibe in that area, (not to mention the boat routes!) so I'm inclined to trust the official source. But before I go spouting off my own thoughts into the article, especially given the naturally confused and contentious nature of discussion surrounding a hot topic like the Draenei, I thought I'd check here and see if anyone can shed any light on where this actually is. --Brommon 12:51, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

Guys! On the Games Radar Interview, their next zone is Bloodmyst Isle, which is a 10-20, meaning they don't have to go to Darkshore after Azuremyst --Shandris 05:28, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

Who is the leader of these Draenei?
Who is the leader of these Draenei?


 * How about reading the article before you ask questions? If you refer to the true Draenei, see Velen. For the leader of the Broken, see Akama. --Ragestorm 21:25, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Female Eredar
The article says that female Eredar have been seen... or have they? Has anyone noticed that there is some similarity between female Draenei and Succubi? Both have horns, both have cloven feet, they both have tails. Sure Succubi have wings, but that could be a change due to demonic mutation.

Could it be possible that Succubus are the demonic female eredar?

I'm not saying it is the case, but just something to think about.Baggins 02:09, 31 July 2006 (EDT)


 * Doubtful, how many female orcs, tauren and trolls have you seen before WoW? And despite other physical differences, average succubus is rather smaller then draenei. --Nea 02:19, 31 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I'm inclined to agree with Nea on this one. Also, Warlocks can summon Succubi; unless Sargeras is a misogynist, I can't see the female counterparts of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden waiting for some upstart mortal to summon them. --Ragestorm 13:01, 31 July 2006 (EDT)


 * I'm sorry, I can't see any resemblance between Succubi and Eredar ... Are you all dumb ?--Kirochi 09:24, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Back to the original point - we have seen female eredar, since draenei are essentially eredar. Unless there are major differences between the two (unlikely), we have seen them. In any case, it's not relevant to the article, which is about 'draenei - females of which we have seen. -- Kirkburn 12:05, 3 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Mmm I was under the thought that they were talking about demonic eredar there. Bleh, although I didn't get my lore straightened out until now. I've been only glancing at the Draenei pictures, and I thought the demonic eredar looked a LOT different from Draenei, but now I go back to them, there aren't any really big differences between the two. Blarghh. Pzychotix 13:56, 3 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Being the one who added that note on the female eredar, I can safely say I meant female demonic eredar. It's just a little note, and it really should be on the Eredar (Burning Legion) page. The point of it here is that we can't compare Draenei and demonic eredar females because we have not seen demonic eredar females. --Ragestorm 18:27, 3 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Ah, I mis-interpreted the note, sorry :) I've stuck in back in a more concise and reworded form -- Kirkburn 18:33, 3 August 2006 (EDT)
 * I heard that Succubi are Female Nathrezim A.K.A Dreadlords


 * A) Same problem: Can you honestly picture a female Tichondrius waiting to be summoned by a warlock? 2) This is not the talk page for such a discussion. Zed) Sign your posts! --Ragestorm 10:50, 23 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Actually, they look like the Tothrezim, which are apparently smaller and less massively robust and strong looking. And i believe weaker. Succubi could be another race of only females, too.
 * And yes, we have seen female draenei, and since eredar are simply reddish or darker blue draenei, we can assume they exist and look the same. altho i do really wish they would make the demonic draenei, eredar, look at least a LITTLE bit different. they have a few little things with the face, but its really close. have them very scared up or something from all the fighting they have done.--Haddon 20:20, 10 September 2006 (EDT)

Can't see no tendrils on any of the female Draenei I've seen.-- K )  (talk) 11:42, 11 November 2006 (EST)


 * Look closely at the screenshots- the tendrils sprout from below the ear, not the mandible.--Ragestorm 12:57, 11 November 2006 (EST)


 * Hoshi, my dranei mage, indeed does have tendrils just below/behind her ears. Very fetching :) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 13:47, 11 November 2006 (EST)


 * Troo dat =P Sorry, mistook'em for hair.-- K )  (talk) 16:26, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Sironas in Bloodmyst Isle is female eredar, looks just like your ordinary female draenei Hirurg 04:04, 20 February 2007 (EST)


 * Except for starting out at about fifteen feet tall (as opposed to your typical draenei's paltry seven or so) and shooting up to closer to thirty in battle, anyway. Qit el-Remel 12:18, 10 November 2007 (PST)

Glowing sigil
Do you think that the glowing sigil is a sign of spell-casting as Ragestorm stated or a selectable feature at character creation? It can be seen in the Shaman Draenei screenshot and in the draenei art by Glenn Ranë but what about the Female Priest and Paladin screenshot? Aren't they spellcasters too?


 * Well, seeing as I brought it up in the first place I do think there are several options. Either it's a selectable, customizable feature at character creation, some general sign of actively casting a spell, or perhaps the visual effect created when Blessing of the Naaru is activated. I guess we'll have to wait and see what it's about. Then again, we can all go and prod around on the forums for a blue response, though that's unlikely. --Stormsinger 04:50, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * My guess is that it'll be selectable, since in here you see the guy having the sigil without casting or anything. Pzychotix 23:21, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


 * Having the sharp eye for things like I do, I can now say that I believe the glowing sigil to be the visual effect of having Blessing of the Naaru active. In Part One of the spell/talents from the expansion, if you notice the image accompanying the spell "Spellsteal", the blood elf has stolen Blessing of the Naaru from the draenei. The glowing sigil appears much too high above the head of the draenei, as if it's being lifted off and away from her.--Stormsinger 10:16, 29 August 2006 (EDT)


 * The glowing sigil is not an editable characteristic of the Draenei. You can see an HD quality movieclip of the burning crusade character creation at gametrailers.com and the sigil is not apparent on the Draenei at all. So I would side with stormsinger in saying that it may likely "activate" or "appear" when the Draenei are either "A" spell casting or "B" have the blessing of Naaru activated. --Lokiri 00:49, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I don't have a link to the source (I forgot it!), but I read an official annoucement that the glowing sigil appears when they use the racial Blessing of the Naaru. -- Kirkburn  (talk) 10:54, 23 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Ofc they do! that's what we've been trying to state here for a couple of months O.o --Shandris 11:04, 23 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Yes, thank you for that. My point was that it's now official. :) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 12:52, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

The glowing sigil is obviously inspired by the Illumians from D&D. They're a humanoid race with glowing runes floating around their heads, and since there hasn't been any information so far on how these sigils affect gameplay or react in gameplay, I think it's safe to say it's simply an aesthetic. It is probably the equivalent of a draenei tattoo. Perhaps it represents status, occupation, some sort of personal message, a connection to the naaru, etc.--Grid 12:13, 10 November 2006 (EST)


 * I editted that statement slightly to make it fit more with WoWWiki:Neutrality policy. I changed "obviously inspired" to "may have been inspired". If you have a reference where someone officially said they took the sigil from the illumians in D&D, you ought to change it to simply "inspired by" and place a reference at the end of the article. Otherwise, I think it's an "illuminating" (pun ;))observation that should be left in, albeit with more neutral wording. Uta 23:27, 3 December 2006 (EST)


 * Reasonable change. BTW is the name of your wolf inspired by Song of Fire and Ice?--Grid 12:35, 4 December 2006 (EST)


 * Yes, sir. You know your fantasy references. :) And no, my bat's name is not taken from the name of a Belkin controller! Uta 01:51, 6 December 2006 (EST)


 * You know, I acually think the glowing sigil is more inspired by the whole caste mark system from Exalted by White-Wolf. Not really being familiar with the illumians (had to go hunt a picture down), a whole slew of symbols orbiting one's head is rather different from just a solitary mark.--Stormsinger 00:15, 11 December 2006 (EST)

WoW lingo page
If your so against thecommonly used phrased Lorelol being mentioned in the main draenei article being the mentioned in the main draenei page perhaps we should create WoW lingo page and put in there,along with other phrases. Angry ogre


 * It was 'commonly used' months ago. In my opinion such terms certainly deserve no place on the draenei page for a variety of reasons. Defamtion, immaturity, non-notability, etc. If you can show me a list of similar terms with merit then perhaps I may change my mind. I'd rather not start including forum memes on the wiki though :) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 19:57, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

Well Whenever I try to bring up Warcraft lore on the forums,generally people just respond with LoreLol. Besides if Chuck Norris has his own article here why not a commonly used phrase that relates to warcraft lore and one of the games biggest controversies. Angry ogre


 * Hmm interesting point, and I had no idea we had a Chuck Norris page :) I still don't see the need for it - we don't want the wiki to become too 'linked' with the forums, where people come here to make fun of the lore. The whole 'lorelol' thing is based upon a giant bandwagon and 'look I can say it too' rather than a real underlying reason. This contrasts with the Chuck Norris article which is relatively neutral and concerns events in the actual game itself. Hmm ... -- Kirkburn  (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2006 (EDT)


 * To add to Kirkburn's point, if we want to be a reputable WoW source, we shouldn't directly make fun of Metzen's mistake (which he has apoligized several times for, and which he said he might have retconned anyway, given the Eredar's position in lore). --Ragestorm 21:51, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

I'm not saying we said take a side in it,maybe have a section about controversies about the burning Crusade. And I agree with you,Metzen(the poor guy)has enough trouble as it is. Angry ogre

Draenei Language
Don't the Draenei speak Draenei, not Eredun? As far as I know, that's what they speak in game for an alternate language. -- Kanaru 22:31, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

In Beta Draenei have the languages Common and Draenei. I would assume that Eredun is a corrupted offshoot of Draenei, but that's just my guess. User:WoWWiki-Silvermist
 * [[Image:DraeneiLanguageBeta.jpg|thumb]] Here ya go! Silvermist


 * Evidence taken. FIY, you got it backward: Draenei is more likely a dialect of Eredun.--Ragestorm 21:45, 2 November 2006 (EST)

I believe that they are both offshoots of a "true eredun" base language

Appearance
You know, I think we need to do some reworking regarding the appearance of the draenei in comparison to the eredar.. It seems draenei do indeed have fangs.--Stormsinger 05:01, 31 October 2006 (EST)
 * They do? Really? Show me then, I didn't notice them O_o Only the tendrils.. --Tinkerer 05:29, 31 October 2006 (EST)
 * Have a looksy here. Image:DraeneiLaughing.jpg.   Oh, and Mr. Kirkburn, I capitalized "draenei" in the text for the icon image because when I posted it, it was meant to be a title for the image "The Icon of the Draenei", and one always capitalizes nouns in a title.--Stormsinger 20:33, 31 October 2006 (EST)
 * I don't know, to my eyes it looks like those are the molars- the angle is letting you see inside the mouth. On another note, it's not like eredar fangs are their most prominent feature.--Ragestorm 20:54, 31 October 2006 (EST)
 * Well, they look like fangy teeth to me, just like night elf males. I'll work on getting a /talk picture that shows it better.--Stormsinger 00:34, 1 November 2006 (EST)
 * Here we go, a male draenei talking. Image:DraeneiTalking.jpg--Stormsinger 01:00, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Point of clarification from a beta tester - I've never seen a Draenei in game with something other than varying shades of blue skin. Not sure where the red skin thing came from. The Eredar Warlocks I've seen in Beta have red skin, however. It may also be useful to note that the Draenei racial aura is both +1% to hit with melee and spells for all group members except for the Draenei player his/herself. User:WoWWiki-Silvermist
 * Yep, seen the eredar with red skin too. I suppose they're just like the Mag'har orcs, or something - using the same models (orcs in their case) but not in a way that players can use it. --Tinkerer 16:10, 1 November 2006 (EST)


 * Red skin is a well-known side effect of demonic corruption. Kil'jaeden himself has a terrifying crimson epidermis. Because the Draenei and Archimonde have blue skin, and warlocks and diabolists have purple skin, we assume that the original skin tone of the eredar was blue.
 * Archimonde actually has grey skin, and Draenei skin can be black, grey, blue, purple and white, so really, the only ones that have odd coloration is the red eredar. Omacron 21:34, 18 December 2006 (EST)

Judging from the in-game models we have now of Archimonde and Saurfang -- and also a comparison of cinematics -- it seems that the eredar and draenei are pretty much identical. The only differences in physiology are superficial like skin color.--Grid 07:44, 19 December 2006 (EST)


 * Hang on, how do we know draenei blood is blue?? -- 09:47, 23 January 2007 (EST)


 * It's mentioned about twenty times in Rise of the Horde :) 09:52, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Corruption Levels: OK now I'm really confused
Why is the corruption changing physical form so different from race-to-race? We have things like the Eredar and Fel Orcs, but then we also have Satyrs and the Broken. I have really no idea why it's like this. User:Saimdusan


 * In each case, corruption comes from a different source, and has different purposes. Eredar and Fel Orcs only changed a little from their original design, because their original design was what the Legion was looking for. The Satyrs' new forms were designed for stealth. The Broken weren't really corrupted, just mutated. --Ragestorm 09:20, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Tragic Flaws?
"Many people also are upset that the draenei seem to lack a tragic flaw like all other races (i.e., night elves are proud and grew a new world tree without the blessing of the aspects, or orcs being temperamental and being tricked into working for the burning legion) in the Blizzard universes have and feel this makes hard them to identify with and compareable to mary sues. In actual fact, this may be more to the fact that we don't know nearly enough about the draenei lore than to their lack of depth. But in BC beta, one has yet to see any Draenei flaws and we have already seen plenty of blood elf flaws in the burning crusade."

As a beta tester, the Draenei have two racial flaws. 1. The Exodar Crash resulted in a large number of local wildlife flora and fauna in the area being irradiated and mutated, causing whole Night Elf villages to be destroyed by rampaging mad moonkins, etc. The Draenei solution - usual for Warcraft - involves slaughtering all the affected flora and fauna. 2. Their desire for vengence. The Draenei quests in outland tend to have subtle vengence overtones over the felhorde and minions of Illidan that killed much of their people. I can provide screenshots I believe if neccessary. But the above statement about the Draenei having no flaws is so blatantly false.

Silvermist - Beta tester - Hellfire server


 * Excellent.--Ragestorm 12:52, 9 November 2006 (EST)

The Exodar crashing isn't even their fault. And just about every quest sollution involves slaughtering things. And everyone desires vengence over the legion thats nothing new. Angry ogre


 * No, but the draenei do apparently maintain a grudge against the orcs, even though the vast majority of the Azerothian orcs deeply regret and abhor the actions of Gul'dan's killing machines. Further, Velen knows that Kil'jaeden hates him more than anything else in the universe- and cannot help but wonder if he is partly responsible for what befell the Orcs or the draenei. --Ragestorm 23:33, 9 November 2006 (EST)

On second thought after Reading Rise of the Horde the Draenei seem to have pretty good reason to hate the orcs. I think the line about having no flaws should stay Angry ogre

Actually the draenei are the reason orcs were corrupted in the first place. Kil'jaden found the orcs because he heard the word Draenor which he recognized as Eredun and the draenei did not warn the orcs about the burning legion,prefering to keep to themselves. Zarnks 03:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Cannibals?
It may sound weird buy the jokes and even flirts of teh Draenei refer to eating otehr races (mostly gnomes). As well, the new Jinx Shirt lists the Exodar as one of the places that has a "Murlocos". That makes it the only Alliance city to have one, the rest being Horde and Goblin.

I suppose they are going for the whole human eating monster alien thing? bestbrian


 * Unless they eat each other they wouldn't technically be cannibals. I doubt they could get away with eating gnomes seeing as they are part of the Alliance. I'm not sure the t-shirt is actually lore, LOL.Baggins 00:58, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * The Draenie Females have a Flirt and a Joke where they talk about eating gnomes. And in most Fantasy games eating the flesh of sentient creatures/humanoids is considered cannibalism.  bestbrian

Who says it isn't lore? My Forsaken makes slaughters murlocs and cannibilizes them into tacos all the time!

For all the goddamn times they ganged me in Silverpine... Christ. I still giggle deliriously inside whenever I kill those little bastards. Them and hyenas.--Grid 04:12, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * We'll just have to wait and see if Murlocos Tacos show up in the RPG, novels, comics/mangas, and/or games ;). We are still waiting for the Pandaren Express to get implemented into history ;).Baggins 10:02, 30 November 2006 (EST)

I'd think working with the Alliance was a pretty fatal flaw within itself

Draenei Height
Are we sure they're 7.5 ft? I've been hearing they're comparable to night elf height, but simply wider. If anyone can provide a screenshot comparison I'd greatly appreciate it.--Grid 20:10, 30 November 2006 (EST)


 * I came across this a few days ago. The overall height of the male Draenei varies, though, depending on which horn/crest you pick. -- Maenos 01:17, 11 December 2006

I dont know where that picture came from, but it sure as heck isnt accurate. Both the female and the male tauren are way too tiny, just look at the male one - its the size of an orc! That leads me to believe its probably not very reliable. --Gruul


 * Perhaps, but there is that set of staffs behind them which don't change. I also have this image, which seems to back that up.  They seem to count the tauren's height from their head, not the hump.  Also, don't forget to sign your posts. --Maenos 10:50, 31 December 2006 (EST)


 * Well hereis a ingame screenshot of a tauren standing next to a draenei, and here one of a tauren with a night elf. Both taken patch 2.0.1. in Forest Song, the new draenei/elf camp in Ashenvale, so if this doesnt convince you try it out yourself. Notice that the tauren and the draenei have their heads at about the same level. The elf is a little smaller in comparision to the tauren. That manual page seems to be more accurate, but I wonder why the models there for male orcs and female trolls are the old ones? Anyways, I'd say that if you count the height from their heads they are about the same size as draenei, maybe a bit smaller. But bigger than elves in any case, and I still think that first picture is somehow modified to make the tauren seem smaller. Different angles perhaps. --Gruul

Draenei Village
Strange enough in a mission in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne of the Alliance Campaign in which we can help the draenei, it appears in the info of the mission that Draenei have been fighting the fel orcs for centuries but that can not be possible since the corruption of the orcs could only have happended somewhere in 70 years ago since the formation of the Orcish Horde making Grom Hellscream than an hundred years old. And besides Magtheridon's forces only exist for in draenor for only twenty years old if not less (the one who commands the fel orcs). Manuelwow 16:36, 7 January 2007 (EST)


 * Definately fel orcs? -- 10:15, 7 January 2007 (EST)


 * Perhaps a script error? it happens occaionally; in StarCraft, Zeratul said he'd been an agent of his matriarch for "many millenia"- impossible, as the matriarch was barely a single millenium old, and he himself was in his 600s.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:39, 7 January 2007 (EST)

Had this strange idea that the time on Draenor was rather different of Draenor (a bit like pluton and Earth) that one year on Azeroth would be equal to many on Draenor. This is rather stupid but it would make sense in order for blisard to have write that (or maybe it was just a simple script error) either it could be very logical since Draenor was a planet and besides Draenor/Outland is not right on the corner we just go there directly through the Dark Portal Manuelwow 16:36, 7 January 2007 (EST)


 * For one thing, it's "Pluto", not "pluton" there is a very important difference (and we now know it's not a planet). That theory isn't strange at all, but it doesn't really make sense give what we know- for that to be true, the Dark Portal would have closed a few seconds after the Expedition left, if a few years amounts to a few centuries. For another, how can you expect to expect to complete any quests in Outland, if you go back to Darnassus for two days and come back a decade later? Suggesting that Draenorian years are shorter doesn't work either, as orcs mature at 12 years.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:43, 7 January 2007 (EST)

How do you know that the orcs mature at that age? Manuelwow 11:49, 8 January 2007 (EST)


 * Rise of the Horde. 12 is the age that males are considered old enough to join armies and the hunt, through the Om'riggor, the rite of passage into adulthood.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:01, 8 January 2007 (EST)

I just think it's a retcon.

Also, the idea of 12 being old enough to fight is probably relative to the enemy. Orcs are much more physically robust than the draenei. It would seem official adult duties (Going off to war and such) do not begin until after 20, judging from how disgusted Durotan was at the idea of 12 year olds being sent to war, and even worse when they offered the option to "speed them up".

Some of them are pretty easy to spot. Of course nothing is considered a "retcon" until directly conflicting information is giving, but in this case and also with the case of the draenei in general we know it's true. For example, Akama and his tribe in TFT are clearly depicted as Lost One draenei. However in BC the Broken were revealed, so it seems this idea was new and essentially Akama and his tribe were all retconned.--Zexx 17:15, 8 January 2007 (EST)


 * Who in the Nether brought up rectons? This has nothing to do with retcons. Anyway, I made the mistake- they don't go through Om'riggor until 20 or whenever, but Gul'dan's offer to "speed them up" offers evidence to suggest that they were physically matured by the age of 12. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:31, 8 January 2007 (EST)

Because of the inconsistencies in given information and timeline.--Zexx 23:54, 9 January 2007 (EST)


 * It's called a scripting error or a continuity error. They happen all the time, and cannot be retconned because they never represented official information becasue they were not intended to happen. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:02, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * Actually, they don't, because scripting is usually done by the creative director. I think it's quite clear when Chris Metzen said that a growing, comprehensive universe requires many retcons.  And for the record, "not intended to happen" is also the same lingo used in the comic book biz to refer to one of the more easily revertable retcons.--Zexx 12:51, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * It still worries me that people would prefer to start whining about lore mistakes before they consider the idea of an error.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:42, 10 January 2007 (EST)

I think is racial information like the draenei are kept very intentionally vague in previous incarnations, it's the safe bet to assume that they are still working to expand them.. Which also would mean retcons.

It's very unlikely to be an error, and it's not whining. It's calling out mistakes as they are. Whining would be complaining simply because the change was done.--Zexx 14:17, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * You're right, wrong choice of word for this situation. I'll have to see the actual line, but perhaps Akama could have been refering to demonic beings in general? The draenei certainly have faced demons for centuries, and it parallels Cenarius saying that he fought he orcs before (which he did not do).-- Ragestorm  (talk · contr) 17:21, 10 January 2007 (EST)

It could be possible that Akama meant the Legion rather than orcs specifically. Now that you point that out, it is very possible what he said could still remain consistent.--Zexx 20:47, 10 January 2007 (EST)


 * In the old timeline according to Warcraft II manual the draenei had been on Draenor for at least 5000 years. Additinally there was a refrence in Warcraft 1 manual to the orcs having a prophecy of dominating Azeroth for hundreds of years. So TFT was likely refrencing that information. Although the manuals are also sort of unspecific when orc corruption began in the old timeline history. This has since been altered in RotH, which implies that draenei had been on the world only in the last 200 years before the pre-Horde portions of the book, or at least it had been 200 years since they first had contact with the orcs.Baggins 23:46, 10 January 2007 (EST)