Talk:Death knight/Archive2

Available Races - My Two Cents
DON'T KILL THE LORE; A how to guide by; N,F-H

class that is a Hero;
 * How is it that a Fragile Mage can become an amazing tanking Death Knight ?(DK)
 * Why doesn't Blizzard simply make another undead class; Lich that would take the place of a a Mage "falling from grace"
 * And then the few left that wouldn't be suited to tanking or Mageocricy could simply become DreadLords ? they're the corrupted peoples from races previously conquored by the Burning Legion; the Eredar used to be Draenei then as said before;Hero Class, maybe they could modify it so that each Faction has their own "Hero"

Horde


 * DeathKnight for Horde simply because they'd be the most accepting.
 * Lich Magical version of DeathKnight for Horde.
 * DreadLords for Rogues/Hunters etc...

[NOTE]trainers could simply be in undercity; if you want to see a dreadlord go to the undercity Throne room and Balnazzar is there i think...or one of the three...from WC3-Frozen Throne lich are simply corrupted wizards. and the DeathKnight could be saved by the Forsaken...

Alliance


 * Demon Hunter to counter DK this would be fitting with the Lore since the main DeathKnights'(Arthas Menethil) last battle was against the Demon Hunters Main; Illidan Stormrage.Or the player could be entered into the Silver Hand and taught higher Paladin Knowledge.
 * Magical version of Demon Hunter could easily be ArchMage; it doesn't break Lore at all as Mages were trained from all races; even some Orcs trained in Dalaran.
 * Possibly the player is recruited as a Jailor/Warden; during the prison break of Illidan by Tyrande many jailors were killed, then the hunt of illidan even more were killed...they'd definatly be recruiting...

Point is we can have REAL Hero classes without killing the Lore,and not overpowering either Faction...

will reveal more details if ideas are considered...might add a bit more Lore too.


 * The Death Knight class is a REAL Hero class, isn't it? I also don't see how one faction is overpowered to the other. Both have DKs... 18:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I noticed on the page that it appears all of the races would get access to it. My thought was..."Uh, WHAT?"

IMHO, reasons why the current races should or should not have death knights:

Horde:
 * Orcs have done it before - even if it was technically orcish spirits in the bodies of dead Azerothian knights - and some (myself included) still practice warlock magics. Entirely plausible.
 * Forsaken, definitely - they're dead, that's a good start right there. They've also proven they have a mastery of shadow magic - if you've ever faced an undead shadow priest in PvP, you'll know what I mean! - and indeed make the shadow their religion. Plus, Sylvanas would probably like a few necromancers in her ranks.
 * Blood elves are opportunistic, and have proven that they will resort to anything - fel magic, sapping holy powers from a naaru, etc. - to feed their magical addictions. And besides, have you gotten a good look at their mounts? They're evil! Even the BE pallies - red eyes. Spooky stuff.
 * Trolls....haven't seen any troll necromancers. Seen plenty of undead trolls, though! Truthfully, I have nothing to say for or against troll death knights.
 * Tauren would probably be against it, because their culture has respect for the earth, and for the dead.

Alliance:
 * Humans are opportunistic and easily corrupted - just ask Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, etc. All of the Scourge death knights in WC3, and all but one in WoW, have been humans. (See the next point for the all but one.)
 * Dwarves might be pushing it a bit, but there is at least one dwarven death knight - Thane Korth'azz, one of the Four Horsemen in Naxxramas.
 * Night elves - opportunistic as they might be (just look at Teldrassil, and who was behind its creation, and tell me that's not opportunistic) - would probably be opposed to it for pretty much the same reasons as the tauren. Well, respect for the earth might be pushing it - the Sundering is a good example of that, even if it was a paranoid egotist like Azshara behind that effort! - but they would not screw with the dead.
 * Draenei - at least, those in the service of the Alliance - would not resort to necromancy. Ever. The Auchenai don't count, they're brainwashed by a man'ari eredar using the shadow energies of a dead naaru to screw with their minds.
 * Come on...a gnome death knight?

Feel free to chuck rotten fruit at me, I'll be here all week. --Joshmaul 17:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

It would make sense to me if only the other plate-wearing classes could become (or is it "create?") a Death Knight. Between Warriors and Paladins, that encompasses all races in the game. Arthas was a Paladin so obviously Paladins would be able to follow in his footsteps. But from what I'm reading on the WoW official page, the Death Knights are a hybrid tanking/dps class... which is precisely what the Warrior class already is. Only time will tell, though. Darin Wagner 17:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * My guess is that Humans, Dwarves, and maybe Gnomes from the Alliance (Joshmaul is correct about Draenei and Night elves), and Blood elves, Forsaken, and possibly orcs or trolls. Tauren- almost certainly not. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * For certain, I think humans, orcs and undead. For the "possibles", I think blood elves (again, it wouldn't be too hard to imagine - a blood elf death knight would make Dar'Khan look like a cockroach), dwarves (if only because of Korth'azz) and (*shudder*) gnomes. And possibly trolls, but again, nothing really for or against that. --Joshmaul 12:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that a draenei would really be pushing it as a death knight. And night elves- forget about it. Probably the same for the Tauren. Addendum: since you have to complete a series of quests with another character, that character can probably be any race, while the new Death Knight character could only be chosen from an abbreviated list.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly. Like I've said elsewhere, if they DO make them available to all races...they had better have a good reason. --Joshmaul 12:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Some Gnomes turned from technology and magic to demonology, they have warriors, so it's not a stretch to imagine gnome warrior/warlock turned death knight. Yes, hilarity will ensue, but it's there. Cryptomancer 21:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

New info posted on Stratics' WoW website, based on a post from WoW Europe's forums:

''Which race? It's true that the current plan has been heavily discussed to go ahead with all races, but no final decision has been made. After talking to Chris he wasn't totally sold on the idea. Both are technically correct in that the current plan of some of the developers is to go ahead with all races, there's been no final decision made and no real work has progressed to force a decision just yet. The FAQ is more accurate at this time, in my opinion.''

Lore-wise there's really no reason why a specific race couldn't become a Death Knight.

''All races can be challenged mentally and physically, their will dulled, and be cast down into madness ... and darkness. Their souls drawn into the runeblade they wield.''

Stratics News Post

So much for my argument against draenei, tauren or NEs. That is, if you take anything Blizzard tells us with more than a grain of salt. --Joshmaul 17:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd personally prefer that not all races are available (it seems kind of silly to have only one class be universal), but all races are corruptible, and so you could make a lore argument for any one of them. Draenei and Night Elves are inherently corruptible... say hello to any Eredar, Broken, Lost Ones, Satyrs or Naga that you run into... and Illidan in particular comes to mind. Though admittedly Tauren are probably the toughest sell. And if Gnomes can be Warlocks and Warriors, it stands to reason that they can be Death Knights... though I have to agree no one wants to see that crap. :) -- AriochIV 00:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, before BC, Warriors were pretty much universal - all races had 'em. Now all but one has 'em (BEs think they're better than us...oh, wait). Still, nine races outta ten - if that's not "technically" universal... --Joshmaul 08:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ever use a Shadowy Potion to take a romp down into the depths of Jaedenar? Some of the enforcers protecting Lord Banehollow are- surprisingly- Tauren. As for the Auchenai... am I the only one who would actually enjoy playing something as juicily wicked as an Auchenai Death Knight?


 * Last but not least, Trolls do have necromancers. Zanzil is one of the few that actually summons undead (and believe me, he's a rump and a half), but he does summon them and the bulk of the zombies in STV bear his mark.--Darth603 12:31, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You cannot forget that every race has its black sheep. Someone, or groups of people, that disregard everything about their own kind and start messing with things that should not be messed with. Also, they never mentioned how death knights will come into existence in the game yet.  21:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * On the topic of Tauren... I'm pretty sure a Grimtotem Tauren would have no problem with the whole death knight bit.  --Adonzo 22:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't see Darkspear trolls. They're into the voodo and a small group. Night elves and tauren are definte no no's even if do have evil individiuals like the Highborne and grimtotems I haven't seen any of them worshipping the shadow(or anything besides the earth in the tauren case). They just don't use shadow magic,have never been seen using necromancy and can't be a paladin which decreases their chances. Gnomes would be odd because they don't worship anything,being atheists. I can actually see draenei deathknights because Malaadar is a fallen paladin and uses the shadow. Not that they would be welcome in the Exodar. Orc death knights are a mixed bag,on one hand you have the warcraft 2 deathknights but they were in undead human bodies and were a different class from scourge deathknights. They also lack access to the paladin class. They certainly aren't out of the question but they aren't a shoe-in. Zarnks 04:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're running on the assumption that you had to be a paladin to become a death knight. While for the most part paladins have been the ones corrupted into death knights (Arthas, the guy in the trailer, etc.), the insane descent into evil is not exclusive to them (ask any warlock). Warriors could very possibly become death knights too (and the blood elves have paladins, so that fills that gap!) And lore-wise - at least according to Blizzard - anyone could become a death knight, if they go too far into madness. --Joshmaul 18:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Its certainly is a big boast to have been a paladin. I've haven't saw any deathknights that have been stated to have not been paladins. Zarnks 18:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Teron Gorefiend? Yeah, I know... not a Scourge Death Knight. But prior to patch 2.1 at least, he was quite Orky. -- AriochIV 19:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The orc body was a typo. He is a orc in a undead human body. The deathknights from Warcraft 2 are actually quite different from Warcraft 3 death knights,being fragile spellcasters,actually being undead. They were more closer to liches then scourge death knights. Infact many became liches. Zarnks 19:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You said you hadn't seen any non-paladin death knights...well, the argument is unclear as to whether Highlord Mograine was one or not - I think he might have been, but many cite the fact he has no mana in his appearance in Old Hillsbrad to the fact that he was probably just a warrior, not a paladin (though still enough to be an officer in the Alliance military, and have some affiliation with the Silver Hand). And as I said, descending into madness/necromancy/etc. is NOT exclusive to paladins. --Joshmaul 00:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you guys every heard how this whole thing worked....but your character doesn't become a death knight!!! After you have completed the line of quests, you unlock the ability to create a death knight character from the character creation screen. All this discussion about what races or classes should be able to do it is largely irrelevant. The race question will only happen at the beginning when you create your character and at that point it really doesn't matter. Maybe I just thought you all were talking about something else and I am totally off basis here.
 * We were discussing what races could become them. Zarnks is of the opinion - or so I am presuming - that only races that have paladins (humans, dwarves, draenei and blood elves ATM) should have access to death knights, because paladins are the predominant (but not only, as I said) source of DKs in WC3. --Joshmaul 20:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Death knights will be available to all races. Blizz said it themselves.  20:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Blizz also said that may very well change before release. -- AriochIV 22:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "The orc body was a typo."
 * Typo? ROTFLOL... Last I checked Teron Gorefiend wasn't a piece of ascii art...Baggins 22:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I mean a mistake. Teron Gorefiend currently looks like an undead human not an orc. Zarnks 22:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They clearly changed their minds, but I'm not sure you can call it a mistake. What does the ghost of an orc who possessed an undead human look like? Seems to me there's no hard and fast answer to that question. -- AriochIV 22:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would also point out, if you look at the sample UI of the Player Portrait/Rune interface, the example Blizzard chose was an Orc named Teron. As in Teron Gorefiend. This by itself does not prove anything, of course, but those who assume that the new Death Knight refers only to the Scourge version from WC3 may be a bit premature. -- AriochIV 08:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As Gorefiend himself would tell you in BT, he was the first to take the title of death knight, and thus all who claim it now are pale shadows of his magnificence - even Arthas, to a small degree. *grin*


 * Seriously, however - you're right, it might not prove anything, but you might be onto something nevertheless. --Joshmaul 08:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * On the subject of the horde death knight's being orcs in human bodies, they werent in human bodies because it was necessary to becoming a death knight, but quite simply because their old bodies had been destroyed. Their powers as a death knight came from their powers in life as warlocks and necrolytes.  --Adonzo 05:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Half right; the necromantic powers came from the jeweled truncheons they wore, which were imbued by Gul'dan with the powers of the necrolytes (which he had recently, ritually murdered). None of the death knights were necrolytes themselves, far as I'm aware; they were all warlocks of the Shadow Council killed by Doomhammer during his purge. --Joshmaul 03:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Warcraft 2 death knights are a different class altogether,they are more akin to warlocks not modern Death knigths. A great deal of them became liches and they share death and decay. Zarnks 21:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, horde and scourge death knights share two of the same spells as well, death coil, and raise dead and animate dead (considered the same spell in the RPG). To clarify raise dead by name became a term literally meaning to resurrect the dead rather than raising skeletons like it was in Warcraft II. In warcraft III raise dead, and animate dead did essentially the same thing (although one was skeletons, and the other were more like flesh-covered zombie warriors). In later sources, the old "raise dead" was renamed "animate dead", to clarify a difference between the two, and raise dead became a healer ability, literally a form of resurrection, and animate dead would raise the skeletons or zombie warriors. Both necromancers and death knights share the "Animate Dead" spell.


 * Even unholy armor/haste combo and unholy aura have a similar use between the two orders of Death Knights (the aura has a haste component, and both armor and aura are used to improve defense of other units, so they don't die too fast, one by granting invulnerability for a short time, and the other by increasing hp regeneration). Point of note the Death Knight concept, name and class orignates from Dungeons and Dragons originally, their appearances varied depending on the campaign, but were always based on the same original class. As a side note WoW druids got the original death knights, "Whirlwind" spell, although renamed, "Cyclone", warriors Whirlwind has nothing to do with the original spell.Baggins 17:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Wait, maybe the Night Elves and Draenei COULD be. I mean the Highbourne have evil classes (warlocks and necromancers), but then again, the main body of them NE's hate the Highbourne. And with the draenei, theres Auchindound and the corrpted Eredar. So basically only time will tell. Mr.X8 01:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Well Draenei make sense as they are paladins and as seemingly all death knights are paladins. Every paladin can fall whats stopping them. There are inividuals depraved in the draenei,remember the racism against the broken or the draenei in Nagrand who insults the broken and tells them to beat a prisoner. Night elves,tauren,and Darkspear trolls don't work. Darkspear trolls aren't into magic not having to do with voodo or loa(even the arcane comes from the loa)andare not into the arcane. Tauren are not into it,they have never been seen worshipping anything besides nature,even the Grimtotem don't use the arcane. A night elf wouldn't be a night elf anymore if he praticed the arcane. Gnomes and orcs could work if they pushed it. Zarnks 08:47, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually the Grimtotem Clan have sorcerers. And Archmage Allistarj's cult have tauren in them. Forgot about the Night Elves and their whole "they turn into a new race when they practice magic" thing. Of course maybe Blizz will make it a mechanic where they won't. But who knows, maybe you're right Zarnks, we just won't know for awhile really. Mr.X8 17:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Every race can be influenced to become a Death Knight.  K a n a r u   discussion   17:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh right I forgot about the grimtotem sorcerers. Zarnks 17:46, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually many night elves became demon hunters(basically a melee warlock) another corrupting magic source and actually turn themselves into demons which certainly is not good for your mental state. So a night elf death knight isn't that crazy. Zarnks 21:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * My guess is that each race will have access to only one hero class - not necessarily one race per hero class, but one hero class per race. If that is the case, I'd guess Forsaken or Horde will get DK's, and Humans will for Alliance... And perhaps in some later patch, Night Elves and Blood Elves will become Demon Hunters. Just MY two cents. ~Peregrine

The argument about draenei has one minor hole (cough)....EREDAR? The draenei have shown themselves to be easily corruptible and open to using shadow magic. Though sworn to they light and the naaru, they could sever their ties with the naaru and fall into corruption.--God_Of_WoW 00:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Very possibly. Others have cited the Auchenai (draenei who were turned to necromancy by a power greater than themselves - hmm, I wonder who that sounds like?) as an example of what happen when draenei go bad. And I suppose draenei do dabble a bit in shadow magic (they get priests, and priests can be Shadow), but not enough to forfeit their souls over it, like death knights. --Joshmaul 18:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Orcs HAVE done it before but thats not the same type of death knight. Besides, orc warlocks was already pushing it. According to LORE not gameplay, Thrall would NEVER allow warlocks, much less Death Knights amongst his ranks, but according to gameplay, it's an obvious choice.
 * I say, humans, undead, orcs, blood elves. It would be cool if Night Elves got it... but they are too "princess perfect" for that.... besides, they don't have the guts. Baldr 03:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

All races so far. 12:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Draenei ARE easily corrupted, but the death knights in WotLK are sided with the factions... not arthas, and though dranei can use shadow magic if they please... like the eradar... they won't be accepted back into the ranks of the other alliance ppl. Baldr 00:52, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Honestly, there is not a single race out there that really likes the scourge. They've all fought it.  Humans lost almost an entire continent to the scourge, yet most of the Death Knights we've ever seen were humans.  Dwarves are usually not the sort to fall to darkness, but there's always dark Iron dwarves and that one in Nax, so I suppose it could happen.  Gnomes, well, I doubt a Gnome abhors the scourge to the point that the other races do and have fought it the least, and are quite capable of falling to darkness, so a gnomish deathknight would be rediculous, but it could happen.  Night Elves are a tougher sell, but they've fallen before and could fall again.  Likewise for the Draenei, they are not above corruption, as they happen to be the pure branch of a largely corrupt race.  Orcs could do it, they have the history with necromancy and it would look cool (common, an orc in all black death armor leading legions of undead and others in battle, you know it sounds cool).  Trolls are just as susceptible to darkness as orcs if not moreso.  Tauren may be the toughest sell of all, but there are grimtotems out there who are probably lining up for the job.  The forsaken hate the scourge but death suits them.  The Blood elves hate the scourge possibly more than any one, and they are actually the last race I can see doing it, (not for reasons of piety, far from it, they just HATE the lich king).  but I bet one or two will sell out (Darkhan Drathir is a good example).  No race is above corruption. I think that it is ingenius on blizzards part, showing how that which can be most pure, beautiful or noble can be corrupted.  Meneldir

Err... Perhaps I'm not the most suited to talk about this since I couldn't go to the Blizzcon and couldn't ask there, but I guess that thing about "all the races are able to be DK" is like a kind of "tip". Per se, if you are a tauren shaman, but you do the quest to unlock the DK, when you log off, you can create a DK from an assorted group of races wich are able to be DK (despite since Grimtotems demonstrated evil mind, I think DK taurens can be real as warlok gnomes are anyway). So, if you are that Horde tauren shaman, perhaps you can create a human DK. This will make DKs a non-faction class, but able to build reputation with both sides or just with the side from where the main character came. It is just what I thought when they said "it is available to all races", meaning that whatever race your main chara is, you can create that DK you sought, but from that list of available races. Also I wonder if we will be able to call our future DK as the same name as our old main character... Still I miss to make a human druid and call it Panoramix (Getafix for non-european ppl).-- , the Necroshadowmancer 23:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

grimtotems arnt evil just because they are hostile. They are merely a faction that seceded from the horde, they still respect earth and life so i doubt any of them would give into being a death knight. I personally havnt seen a single evil tauren in game...Mr Smite is mean but its not like he plans of world domination. A tauren death knight is as long of a shot as a human with a respectable dance... Baldr 05:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Bold textIt would be cool if Night Elves got it... but they are too "princess perfect" for that.... besides, they don't have the guts.Bold text


 * Well, cutting out their eyes just to see their enemy better shows the guts of *some* NE. Anyway, back on topic, I think the playable DK is either supposed to be a person who has managed to tap into Ner'zhul's energies without his knowing, or who has managed to escape his control during the weak period in Frozen Throne and has recently regained his/her sanity and rejoined his/her faction. If the latter, it would explain the Humans and the Undead and maybe the Dwarves and the Blood Elves, but, if the former, it'd explain it for practically all of the races(to at least some effect) other than the Tauren. But then, the Grimtotem clan is ever ready to prove that wrong. Anuragsahay 12:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Tauren would certainly not approve of Death Knights, but you have to admit--seeing the DK armor, a tauren in that would look so epicly amazing... 04:16, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * WotLK Beta info: we are Death Knights who have escaped the Lich King's control. Highlord Darion Mograine and the Knights of the Ebon Blade (at least I believe that's what they're called) are "purified" by Tirion Fordring and swear to bring down Arthas at all costs. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 15:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Class Armor
I'm I the only one who noticed, but the Death Knight Armor is very remarkable close to T4 Hunter? Some people say it's the Warrior set, but it's definately the Hunter one. Blizzard is kinda rushing on this, aren't they?

ScythXIII 00:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Breastplate's kinda different, but the shoulders are a dead giveaway, yeah. (Ooh, that was a bad one..."dead" giveaway...) Good eyes - I don't think I would have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it. --Joshmaul 13:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems to me people are reading WAY too much into that silly trailer video. More than likely the "real" Death Knight gear has not yet been created. -- AriochIV 19:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That "silly trailer video" is all we have at the moment...so we can read into it as much as we damn well please, thank you. *grin* --Joshmaul 01:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, hardly. According to that video, Death Knights are converted from Alliance Paladins when they get surrounded and overwhelmed by undead creatures. We know very well from much better sources that's not true. Please don't take a teaser trailer for more than it is... an early attempt to generate excitement for the expansion... with whatever they happen to have lying around at the moment. -- AriochIV 08:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed right away, but I didn't care because I know they didn't make any Death Knight sets yet, as it's still not anywhere near completion. [[Image:IconSmall_Dwarf_Male.gif|Dwarf Male]] K a n a r u   discussion   07:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

True, but you gotta admit's its a cool movie Mr.X8 01:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Wait Kanaru, do you work for Blizzard and make WoW? Mr.X8 20:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Get over it people its the first trailer... I mean hell they can't be THAT far along in production unless the day after TBC was released some WoW developer said "right, well lets get to work on the next one." ~Peregrine
 * How do you know they didn't? --Joshmaul 01:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The armor looks a alot like the Dreadknaught gear Mr.X8 05:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

already 10 characters on a realm?
i checked out some podcast with the lead designer where he mentioned how having 10 characters wouldn't hinder making a death knight. instead, it would unlock a "hero slot" which is needed to make the death knight. it was unclear however if it was one hero slot per realm, or per character. anyone heard anything else about this, as i find it'd be nice to know if i shall level more characters the few extra levels to be allowed to make more hero characters.. ;) 05:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * probably the 10 slot is how many normasl chars you can have and once you unlock heroes you can have prolly 10 hero classes lol.
 * Not likely. It might be two or three (three was the limit in WC3), but not a whole new set of 10. --Joshmaul 03:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I am going to guess that they will simply count as another character since that is what they essentially are. Yes they take more time to unlock and you start them later in the virtual life of the character, but they are a character nonetheless. The reason they limit the number of toons you can have is because of database and server storage issues. If everyone had 50 characters on a server, they would have huge databases that would take a lot of time to query.
 * I rather hope they raise the per-server cap to maybe 15 (but still keep the global cap at 50). It would definitely help my debilitating condition :) Chairman Kaga 03:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I rather hope they raise the per-server cap to maybe 15 (but still keep the global cap at 50). It would definitely help my debilitating condition :) Chairman Kaga 03:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the official WoW site it says your allowed 1 death knight per account weather they will change this in the time from me typing this message to release day i dont know, but guys your questions will sooon be answered just wait till release date (P.S im new to wowwiki so i dont really know how to do all this signing stuff please excuse it) im called Wolfykiller on wowwiki so if you guys here have ways of talking to me please help me a little bit on this please


 * If you see the dates of their posts, I don't think they're still wanting to know the answer, since at the time they asked the info wasn't out there. 20:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's actually one per realm, per account, meaning you can have death knights on more than one realm. You're just limited to one per realm on each account you own, so if you have more than one account, you can have more than one death knight on one realm.

A mount
I was thinking sinceall death knights have a skeleetal horse mount, will the DKs get to summon a skeletal horse? But then again the Forsaken already have a skeletal horse as their mounts Mr.X8 18:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * So no problem, then.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Unless you're not Horde. This would be nice, but there's no official word on it yet. -- AriochIV 22:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would hope for something a little closer to the Fiery Warhorse's Reins. Skeletal horses...might be cool to see Alliance on it, but almost everyone (I've seen) Horde has one. --Joshmaul 03:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Good point about the Fiery Warhorse's Reins Josh, that is my favorite mount in game (or is it in-game?) so yeah that would be nice. Mr.X8 01:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in game. Attumen the Huntsman in Karazhan. --Joshmaul 13:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I meant is it spelled in-game or ingame. Sorry about I should have worded it better Mr.X8 19:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that the DK's should get some sort of...well....perhaps a cross between the fiery warhorse thing from kara and the warlock dreadsteed?


 * An Undead Paladin Charger would be most likely IMO. --Invin Dranoel 14:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * LOL...wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. But I hope they do something a little more original. (Question is, how the devil can you make horses look more "evil"?) --Joshmaul 11:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Blizzard is probably suiciding right now. "Why did we have to give Forsaken Undead Horses modelled after Death Knight's horse in Warcraft 3?! What the heck are we going to give the Death Knights now?!". It will be interesting to see how the designs for a unique DK mount would turn out. --Invin Dranoel 08:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Assuming, of coure that they give the DK a mount :) Anuragsahay 09:22, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Then hope they have quick legs :P I vote for an undead epic battleground horse for the DK. -- Ui-charactercreate-races troll-male.png, the Necroshadowmancer 23:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Or how about racial DK mounts? Death Kodos! --Gordal 09:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Death kodos would be kewl but i say that horses are too darn common. Fiery warhorse, fel and dreadsteed, warhorse and charger, baron rivendare's steed, gettin kind of samely...for example the fiery warhorse is nothing but a felsteed/epic horse. If i were blizz i'd have run out of ideas. Baldr 05:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

If Death knights were given a mount, as they really should, I could see it being this. 03:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The Possible Ideas section
I personally really don't like this kind of thing. WoWwiki isn't a blog, it is an encyclopedic information source. I would like to remove this piece from the article and prevent other such pieces from being added. I understand the value of this kind of thing, but since it hasn't been talked about my Blizzard it isn't something that should be in a source like this. Thoughts?
 * Not quite sure which section you mean? The "The following abilities are only ideas" bit? I think it's valid information (as it's taken from in-game) but should be worded in a fashion that doesn't encourage people to add their own hopes and desires. 21:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Tetsuo's right; the stuff about auras is pure speculation. There is plenty of this information on the Lore page about Death Knights... it doesn't need to be posted here. Any speculation opens the door to more speculation, and there's an infinite number of "possible" abilities. -- AriochIV 02:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * True, but those were inferred from pre-existing Death Knight abilities. It's not the important anyway, so fine with it being left off. 02:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe make a new article just for this? Looks like it might be a hot topic. /shrug --Super Bhaal 14:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is an interesting subject, but it is all speculation until it is confirmed. There are pleanty of places to talk about it that aren't supposed to be critical sources of information (the WoW Forums, various fan sites). I would say they are the appropriate place for such discussions.
 * I'll uh...stick to my user page, thank you.  >>;  Discussing lore issues  ( or classes )  on the WoW Forums are more trouble than it's worth.  White Wolf forums has a thread about the expansion, and while some of it's just us hoping and begging they don't stall the release of Dark Factions the rest is a pretty good lore discussion  ( why we hope Frostmourne doesn't drop, et cetera ), and I'm sure if someone brought up the subject of Death Knight abilities they'd get answers.  That, and the people there are generally nicer than the people at the official forums and a lot more "lore learned".  http://forums.white-wolf.com/viewtopic.php?t=61619

--Super Bhaal 19:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Theres also www.deathknight.info ~Peregrine

You don't unlock the class through a quest anymore
Since the page wasn't edited yet, and I really don't know how or where to fit it in, in a recent interview at buffed.de (http://www.buffed.de/features/1471/wow-wrath-of-the-lich-king-cg-interview), the class will be unlocked if you have a character between 55-60 (hasn't yet been decided). You then have to do quests as your new character to become the Death Knight, and start doing normal Alliance/Horde quests.  K a n a r u   discussion   07:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's some better links. http://events.curse.com/leipzig2007/articles/details/2842/  http://www.worldofraids.com/  [[Image:IconSmall_Dwarf_Male.gif|Dwarf Male]]<span style="background:#191919; border:1px solid #494949; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-left:4px; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:90%;"><span style="cursor:help" title="Click me!"> K a n a r u   <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #494949; border-left:0px; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-right:4px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#EEEEEE">discussion   16:46, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Um yea about the links, I can't access the second one for some reason and the first one is in German, is there another link I can go to? Mr.X8 17:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Try the third one. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">[[Image:IconSmall_Dwarf_Male.gif|Dwarf Male]]<span style="background:#191919; border:1px solid #494949; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-left:4px; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:90%;"><span style="cursor:help" title="Click me!"> K a n a r u  <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #494949; border-left:0px; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-right:4px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#EEEEEE">discussion   17:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * So, you lose that character after becoming a DK? You won't be able to start another fresh DK anylonger whenever you want?


 * No, you unlock the ability to create a new character which is the Death Knight that you do the quests to actually become the Death Knight. So yes, you can make as many DKs as you want, but you would still have to do a difficult quest line on your brand new Death Knight to actually do normal quests, etc. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">[[Image:IconSmall_Dwarf_Male.gif|Dwarf Male]]<span style="background:#191919; border:1px solid #494949; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-left:4px; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:90%;"><span style="cursor:help" title="Click me!"> K a n a r u   <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #494949; border-left:0px; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-right:4px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#EEEEEE">discussion   18:51, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I edited the page, oddly enough someone put it back to having to unlock the class through a difficult quest line, when that is not true. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">[[Image:IconSmall_Dwarf_Male.gif|Dwarf Male]]<span style="background:#191919; border:1px solid #494949; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-left:4px; font-variant:small-caps; font-size:90%;"><span style="cursor:help" title="Click me!"> K a n a r u  <span style="background:#252525; border:1px solid #494949; border-left:0px; padding:1px 3px 1px 3px; margin-right:4px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#EEEEEE">discussion   19:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

So what you're saying is, any race (even Tauren, NEs, and Draenei) can be death knights? Mr.X8 05:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is what blizzard said. 14:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite understand the reason behind this. I think it's odd not even the warrior was universal, but the DK class will be Mr.X8 20:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Warriors were taken out as a class choice because of Blizzard's race-class combination philosophy. Alliance and Horde races have counterparts with each other. Tauren-gnome, human-troll, etc. Each counterpart can only roll the same number of classes as the other. The problem was draenei were able to roll 6 and their counterpart blood elves were slated to be able to roll 7. In the end warriors were taken out for blood elves, since the other classes that were given to blood elves felt so important to the race. --- Zexx 08:41, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It's undertsandable, I would have just rather seen a Blood Elven warrior then a hunter, that way the Alliance can catch up on the hunter imbalance. Mr.X8 10:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Mounted Combat
On WoW Model Viewer, there is a few Death Knights in the creatures part. They're mounted, and they can attack 1h, 2h, unarmed etc on the mount. Maybe this is going to be added in the expansion? Might be a Death Knight only thing, since the WC3 Death Knights all attacked on their horses. Kyelv
 * In the Warcraft RPG Death Knights could attack on foot, and riding was optional ( Rivendare had both the Death Knight and Mounted Warrior prestige classes, and I'm sure in the lore Arthas attacked on foot ).  It wouldn't be too fair in PvP  ( imagine trying to chase [b]a freaking plate necromancer going at epic land mount speed[/b] across Warsong Gulch ).  Still I'm sure Blizzard is thinking of ways to make mounted combat fair.  --Super Bhaal 21:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because a certain unit or character could attack on a mount in lore, WC3, or the RPG, doesn't mean they'll be able to in WoW... game mechanics have to be taken into account. ~Peregrine


 * As I said. Still, we don't know what Blizzard's planning so it's best not to draw early conclusions.  ...although if you were to ask me it'd be a bad idea.  --Super Bhaal 23:28, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I don't think mounted comnbat will be implemented in the future... it would create way too much imbalance. ~Peregrine


 * It won't, the only reason he found those models was because there are NPCs in-game that do not dismount when fighting, Baron Rivendare for example. 23:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Rivendare - as well as the aforementioned Attumen - are bosses. They can do whatever the hell they want. *grin* --Joshmaul 01:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I think mounted combat would be sick. I mean if 1 person is on an epic mount in a bg ad the other person isn't and the mounted one runs away, its not an imbalance, it just means the mountless one is poor. Mr.X8 20:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that being said....what about an summoned flying mount? you couldnt have the advantage in PvP. This may not count for combat but just sayin, I think DK's might be able to summon like, a dark phoenix or a skeletal dragon. those besides looking sick would travel at the new 80 mount speed and did I mention they would look SWEET?


 * So basically, mounted combat would just be another way to punish players for not playing enough to get their epic mount... ~Peregrine


 * As well it should be. *wicked grin* --Joshmaul 18:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Blizzard has said on numerous occasions that they'll never do mounted combat. It's not just a question of player imbalance, but rather a case of environment imbalance. If you can fight on horseback (or griffonback), then there's basically no outdoor mob that you can't kite solo, and there's essentially no situation you can't escape from. They'd have to rework every single outdoor mob to be able to handle a mounted adversary, and they're not going to do that. -- AriochIV 19:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I've play games that have incorporated mounted combat (Some Korean MMOs). It is possible to balance it out. Blizzard will find a way sooner or later. They just have not decided when it would be right to do so. --Invin Dranoel 09:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok flying combat I understand why you shouldn't be able to attack on, but ground combat should be fine. Theres tons of mobs already out there that can outrun mounts. Mr.X8 23:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Playing devil's advocate here. How about something akin to the Battlegrounds?  Or rely on the Battlegrounds as the method through which mounted combat occurs?  Sign up, zone into the area, and do mounted combat there.  Once done, you leave and can't do mounted combat any more.  That would negate the so-called environment imbalance.  If siege weapons are being restricted to one zone through the Battlegrounds, why couldn't mounted combat be the same?   13:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Minor contradiction, or my misinterpretation
Hey, in the article it states that to become a Death Knight, your existing character will need to be level 55-60, yet later it says: "However, previewers indicate that a Death Knight is created as a new character after being unlocked through a questline by an existing character (required level is still being decided)". I take it that this means the specific level is yet to be determined, but it will be somewhere between 55 and 60? The Haunted Angel 21:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Pretty much. Some problems arised from Blizzcon saying one thing at Blizzcon ... then saying contradictory info at the Leipzig GC very soon afterwards (which fewer players followed). 21:29, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, cheers. It confused me, because I thought that a while ago I read that you had to be level 80, but it appears that either I was mistaken, or the source has changed. Again, thanks. The Haunted Angel 22:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just a case of wiki-mutation as official information has changed over time. I've fixed the offending paragraph to bring it in line with current information. -- AriochIV 08:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The Warglaives of Azzinoth
Since as of now only rogues and warriors will be able to weild the warglaives of azzinoth, is there a chance maybe the DKs can too? Mr.X8 00:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not sure it matters, they'll probably be useless at 80. -- Raze 05:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Death Knights don't start at 80 they said, but who knows, maybe they will. I've probably said this 3 times "only time will tell" Mr.X8 22:41, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Unlikely. The Death Knight class weapon lists may be limited to only Runeblades or 2h Weaponry. --Invin Dranoel 14:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You thinking runeblades might become its own weapons class? --Joshmaul 11:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably. I think that might happen. But that is my own speculation. --Invin Dranoel 14:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Death Knights are supposedly capable of Dual-wielding. Runeblades as a weapon class? Makes no sense. TheAdamant (talk) 05:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Consequences?
I can't help but think that becoming a Death Knight has long-term ramifications to your gameplay. All of the Death Knights in WoW lore have been direct servants of the Lich King. I wouldn't be surprised if they determine that this is the "bad" Hero class, and they come out with a "Good" hero class later on.
 * Bottom of the page next time, please. Anyway, more hero classes will be coming out, so it doesn't really matter. --Sky (t · c · w) 07:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Warcraft Lore jump the shark. Again?
I sincerely believe that The Death Knight Hero Class will be "Lore-LOL". Arguements that "evil Warlocks and Rogues" are allowed into the Horde/Alliance anyway is nonsense. You can be a Rogue/Warlock and yet still be on the side of the Good Guys. BUT Death Knight on the other hand is a totally different story. People become Warlocks by simply using Demonic Magic, Rogues are just people who are sneaky. But to be a Death Knight, as suggested by the Wrath of Lich King announce, you are going to lose your will to the Lich King. DEATH KNIGHTS = SCOURGE. For the Horde, it is semi-believable for them to have the Death Knight class on account that they used to have a different Non-Scourge affiliated version of the Death Knight, But still, it is something Thrall would never agree to. But for Alliance? The only way they become Death Knight is to go Scourge. I will find it utterly ridiculous if the Death Knight class is intergrated into the Alliance/Horde. How can a Death Knight, the very personification of the Bad Guys aka Scourge, simply walk into Stormwind/Orgrimmar, and say "Yo, Wassap" to Bolvar/Thrall and nobody would give a damned. --Invin Dranoel 07:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Having Alliance/Horde death knights would be a problem lore wise, perhaps...but making the Scourge as a third faction also raises problems - many of which have been addressed, but I'll reiterate:
 * Starting zone. Scourge players would probably start in Northrend. If the rumors that you'd be starting at level 55-60 are true, Northrend would be a little on the high side. There is the possibility, however, that you could start in northern Lordaeron (Stratholme in all likelihood).
 * Capital. The capital of the Scourge would be Icecrown Citadel, and your racial leader would be the Lich King. Simple, right? Problem with that is, Icecrown is an instance (see next point), and your capital (and racial leader) would be under constant attack within about...oh, I'd say six months of the expansion release. Give or take.
 * Questing/instancing. There would be no major problem with death knights instancing in Outland, as none of the instances have anything to do with the Scourge. But because a lot of the questing and major instances in Northrend (Utgarde, Naxx 2.0, Icecrown, etc.) would have something to do with the Scourge, what is a Death Knight to do? You can't make Scourge questing purely PvP, constant raiding of the Alliance and Horde towns.
 * Travel. This is probably the most important problem: Where would you put the flight paths? Northrend and Lordaeron would be easier - the Scourge are EVERYWHERE, so it wouldn't be a problem - but how would you get around in, say, Outland? The Scourge has no presence there at all. (Naberius, the lich in Kirin'Var Village in Netherstorm, doesn't count - the Scourge has necromancers and liches, but these are NOT exclusive to the Scourge.)


 * As for Alliance and Horde taking them: For the Horde, at least, some of the orcs' allies were taken out of necessity, their powers useful to advancing the Horde's cause. The Forsaken openly practice shadow magic and it's no secret that they're busy developing a plague to destroy the Scourge (and quite possibly the living as well), and they also utilize necromancy to an extent. The blood elves openly practice any kind of magic they can get their hands on - they might have a minor beef with having death knights in their ranks (if only because the guy who invaded their land, killed their people and burned their cities was a death knight), but magic is magic. As for the Alliance, they're not exactly goody-goodies themselves - humans especially. The draenei are probably the only race that hasn't really been subject to all the infighting and powermongering that the other Alliance races have pulled...Stormwind's nobility is corrupt, Ironforge has to deal with the Dark Irons (and the fact that the next heir to Magni's throne is half-Dark Iron), the night elves and the whole business with Teldrassil, all the crap in Gnomeregan, and so on. But even draenei can be corrupted - the Auchenai in and around the Bone Wastes is the most-often cited example of that.


 * And lastly - the Lich King's control is formidable, but it can be broken. Need a tip on how to do that? Ask any Forsaken. Death knights are one of the most formidable of the Lich King's troopers - but even though they (for the most part) are mortal, they could still regain some semblance of free will, don't you think? --Joshmaul 10:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hang on, I just thought of a possible non "lore-lol" way to have Death Knights leave the Scourge... Sylvanas and the Forsaken are working on a plague to use AGAINST the Scourge, right? So what if the purpose of this plague was not to kill the scourge... but free them? ~Peregrine


 * Wasn't it already said that they'd just go "oh, thanks for the training guys, screw you I'm heading back to Alliance/Horde/Venture Company"? --Super Bhaal 19:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)


 * To complain that a certain bit of Warcraft lore doesn't make sense is to imply that the rest of it makes any sense, which is obviously silly. :) -- AriochIV 00:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

But this certain bit of Warcraft Lore is integral to the entire story. Death Knights are the symbols of the Scourge, the banner carrier, the theme of corruption. The theme of the Death Knights is that evil corrupts, no matter how great you are. Arthas is an allusion to King Arthur. And he was corrupted into a Death Knight. The underlying message is that no one can escape the will of the Lich King and the corruption he brings. The Death Knight brings a sense of dread to the story. It reminds us of evil. And now that you can become an Alliance/Horde Death Knight? Yes this make the rest of Warcraft Lore "senseless". I understand the problems posed into game mechanics but if Blizzard cannot solve the Lore problem, they shouldn't make the Death Knight class at all! Didn't Blizzard pride themselves on great story-telling? Well, as of World of Warcraft, they have destroyed the beauty of their story and turned it into an abomination in the name of profit. --Invin Dranoel 15:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The theme of the Death Knights is that evil corrupts, no matter how great you are.
 * Ahh yes, but maybe they want to introduce the theme that anyone can be redeemed, no matter how low you've sunk. Death Knight players will sorta be using the abilities of the Death Knight to bring about the greater good. I get the impression that Blizzard cares enough to make this believable. Nothing you've said was ever written in stone either, don't make it sound like it is. -- Raze 04:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this has been said before but it was lost in your sea of complaining. I think the death knight's first quest chain has to do with breaking free of the Scourge and joing his or her former race.-- 00:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

O-o It is? Wow... this changes things. Well... it can be translated into "Wow... Arthas must really suck not being able to control people the way Ner'Zhul used to." But that is the whiney side of me complainin. They'd better make the Alliance/Horde DK lore solid and not a flimsy foil hat.--Invin Dranoel 12:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Heard of the Forsaken? 13:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

"Epic" starting quests, eh?

<You hear a dark voice whispering in your mind> "Arise, Death Knight.  I am your new Lord and Master, the Lich King...  To prove your loyalty and worth to me I require a task from you.  Slay the Rebellious Zombies ten feet away from you, and return to me with 10 Zombie Asses as proof of your deeds.

Joking aside though, I expect a very silly justification for why the Alliance of all bigoted and unforgiving factions will allow the existence of Death Knights amongst their ranks. --- Zexx 06:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nicely tarring everyone with the same brush there. If they were all that bigoted, they'd hardly be a faction made up of more than 5 races ... (you know they have warlocks, yes?) 23:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say I did a pretty accurate job, didn't I? Of course they're bigoted.  It's pretty clear if you read the Alliance Player's Guide.  All the Alliance races generally get along with each other because they all have views that conveniently intersect with one another, and offering up the availability of one class in a faction is hardly a mark of receptive diplomacy.  The Horde is a group of different races with vastly different agendas, but choose to be allied for the sake of survival and acceptance.

Otherwise the official Blizzard response would not have been "appropriate lore will be created regarding how Death Knights will be accepted into the Alliance", would it? It wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. --- Zexx 03:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I just realised a problem with individual (Player) Death Knight being able to break free from the Lich King. Highlord Mograine could not do so. Sir Zeliek, another one of the Four Horsemen could not do so. Both are powerful members of the SilverHand and have powerful will yet they cannot break free. And along comes several hundred nameless guys and they break free from Lich King control by doing a series of quest similar in difficulty to an Epic level quest. Hello?
 * I understand there is this "Forsaken" theory that most people hold. The Forsaken broke free from the Lich King's powers when he was significantly weakened due to his power leak. In WotLK, Lich King is back to full power. Nobody breaks free from Lich King's will when he is at full power. --Invin Dranoel 09:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nobody breaks free from Lich King's will when he is at full power.
 * I don't recall Blizzard ever making this a hard rule. You are just speculating. Also another point that might be relevant is that, unlike Arthas, both Mograine and Zeliek had both died and were risen as undead, and were therefore slaves to the Lich King. Whether player Death Knights actually die beforehand is still unknown. If we are not made undead when we choose a death knight, we may retain some of our free will. It is still way too early to judge whether it'll make sense or not, I've already given just one example of how they can make it work. -- Raze 13:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * On checking, it seems Zeliek might not have died. But we really don't know how he was corrupted. Maybe it took a very powerful artifact similar to Frostmourne to keep him in control. We don't know of course, but it is a plausible explanation. -- Raze 13:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Bornakk has made a blue post of the forums saying that the playable death knights will be those who have had a change of heart and choose to fight for the Alliance and Horde now against the Scourge. Death knights do indeed have free will, which begs the question of why the suffering Four Horsemen in Naxx simply don't leave.
 * Blue post here. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1777867826&pageNo=1&sid=1#9  --- Zexx 18:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Fear may be one reason, but also, who says that they all have free will? 20:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe death knights can still serve the Scourge while serving their respective faction...an infiltrator of sorts. Hell, the Alliance and the Horde do it, and even the Burning Legion to some degree - so why not the Scourge? A death knight in the Alliance or Horde would make the perfect spy, if the "I'm free of the Lich King, need a hand?" ploy works. --Joshmaul 22:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And yet nobody trusts the Forsaken. The loophole is if people actually come to accept these Death Knights among their ranks, what the hell is stopping them from world peace? "Within this quest chain the character learns to master the power of the Death Knight and to learn to use the power to their will." Indeed this sounds very Warlockish. I would accept the Death Knight if the way they attain their Death Knight powers is not directly linked to the Lich King, but the trailer seems to tell otherwise. The whole point of the Scourge in the 1st place is to have an army with no free will. Granted, it is easier to command that army through Death Knights and Liches with some level of free will (akin to Overmind - Cerebrate - Overlord relation in Starcraft's Zerg), but to lose total control over Death Knights, somewhere pretty high up on the Scourge Hierarchy is something very unbefitting to the Lich King, the supposed "Most Power Being To Ever Walk Upon Azeroth" --Invin Dranoel 13:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Guys, bear in mind we don't know the whole story yet. The only info we have on the sudden interest in the Lich King is that he has done something that "endangers all life on Azeroth", or approxomately that. Until we know the rest of the lore, we can't really assume anything. Maybe this new weapon of the Lich King is powerful - and dangerous - enough to force the Horde and the Alliance to take drastic measures. We just don't know, so until Wrath is out I don't think anyone is justified in saying the lore is being destroyed OR in saying the lore will be perfectly fine, because we don't know ANY of the backstory yet. ~Peregrine

It's pretty much a retcon. If you've ever been inside Naxx and fought the Four Horsemen, they say things like, "Go away... Before..  It's too late!" "Sorry... I...  Can't fight it much longer!" etc etc, indicating that they do not have free will. When now.. Suddenly, they do. Peregrine, if you read both of Bornakk's posts in the thread, he says verbatim they DO have free will. This is how they make their way to our respective factions. There is also the golden rule that nothing pre-expansion can be taken as a firm change, so a new story can arise, but this the ball they're choosing to roll with right now. And a death knight especially is someone who's ranked VERY highly in the Scourge Army... Defecting that easily already sounds ridiculous. --- Zexx 03:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Only two of them give that indication: Mograine and Zeliek. Korthaz and Blaumeux (especially Blaumeux) seem to enjoy what they're doing, and are probably willing servants of Kel'thuzad.  And, as others have said, Mograine and Zeliek were both killed and raised as undead slaves, which probably impedes their ability to leave. -- Dark T Zeratul 03:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. There may be perfectly sound explanations. eg. There are powerful Frostmourne-like artifacts keeping the Four Horsemen under control that are not given to player death knights. Way too early to say "jumped the lore shark" just by making assumptions. Player death knights may not be ranked very highly in Scourge hierarchy either. What I recall being stated by Blizzard was that player death knights will simply be fresh out of death knight school (something like that). As stated before, we don't know the story. -- Raze 03:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it, part of the epic Death Knight quest is probably going to be receiving training from Instructor Razuvious in Naxxramas. That would be sweet. -- Raze 04:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

In saying that Death Knights are pretty high in the Scourge's hierarchy, I made reference to Warcraft 3 where Death Knights are the Hero Units of the Scourge. Hero units in Warcraft 3 are Generals, Commanders and Leaders in battle for their respective factions. The Alliance have their Archmage, Mountain King and Paladin. The Horde have the Tauren Chieftain, Far Seers, Blade Masters. And Sentinel's Priestess of the Moon, Keeper of the Groves, Demon Hunters. Warcraft 3 Scourge heroes are Liches, Death Knights and Dreadlords. All these heroes obviously are in the leadership positions of their factions. It is not meer speculations and assumption that Death Knights are leaders in the ranks of the Scourge. Still, it is not outside the realm of possibility that there are lesser Death Knights. Like Zexx said, that would probably be a major retcon on Blizzard's part on the structure of the Scourge. --Invin Dranoel 08:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Plenty of lowly Death Knight trash mobs, and Death Knight students in Naxxramas. -- Raze 08:37, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Compare them to non elite undead mobs in the plaguelands. --Invin Dranoel 08:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Then the fact that Bornakk also said at 80 you're considered an uber death knight. So then my next question is.. Who the hell trains you? --- Zexx 09:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's a good question - along with another that's been asked: Where the hell would you PUT the trainers? Some people on Deathknight.info are of the opinion that the Death Knight trainers should be put in with the warlock ones - the Slaughtered Lamb in Stormwind, the Cleft of Shadows in Orgrimmar, etc. I think the only place they'd be in the open would be in Undercity, considering the Forsaken tend to be a little open with their use of dark magic... --Joshmaul 18:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Dissapointing... Recent Death Knight interviews have shed no new light on the Death Knights. Yea, the trainers would be a trouble. Technically, the Death Knights that will be playable would be fresh out of the Scourge, which leaves the question, how they train their new skills or who in the Alliance can actually train them. Horde is fine, considering there may be a couple of old Ex-Death Knights or the Old Horde Warlocks who created Old Horde Death Knights in the 1st place. But the Alliance have no clue about DKs. If Blizz introduce Death Knight trainers and put them around in various cities, it would suggest that Arthas is losing many Death Knights in a very unglam fashion.
 * Maybe there will be a small location dedicated to the Death Knights of the Alliance and the Horde in Northrend the same way the Druids have their Evergrove? That would make the most sense. --Invin Dranoel 11:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The way I've been led to understand it - and yes, I did do the Gorefiend quest chain - is that those Death Knights that were not destroyed by the Alliance were killed by Gorefiend or turned into liches when Kil'jaeden created the Lich King. Which leads me to wonder exactly what the hell Attumen and the Black Riders mentioned in Duskwood questing are, but as far as I know, only Gorefiend remains of the original Horde DKs. That I've seen anyway - might be more! Who knows? --Joshmaul 04:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Like Lady Liadrin and Farseer Nobundo, I'm sure we will be introduced to new characters with written background lore who will then become trainers. (Perhaps past characters returning as Death Knights?) -- Raze 02:56, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Think it might be possible that Arthas begins your training in some fashion? 03:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, that sounds more likely than not. In fact, I'm almost certain that will be the case. Come to think of it, players might begin Scourge friendly, and run a few Scourge missions on his behalf for a level or two before switching back to the good side. Although that would mean there needs to be a Death Knight only newbie zone in Northrend. -- Raze 03:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe someone else who has already broken free of Arthas ends up being your trainer. Radiation 23:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)


 * But how would they explain why those death knights all suddenly decided to have a sudden change of heart now instead of before? Paladins and shamans being new to each faction worked because they were two previously unintroduced races into their respective factions.  This is a class that was always around, but had no defectors until now.  -- Zexx 11:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Maybe Malygos had a hand/claw in it. --Invin Dranoel 13:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I think one of the major points everyone here seems to have not considered is that in WoW, a player is treated by NPC's as a single individual or of a small group (like the Blood Knights) rather than one of the overall crowd. Quest NPC's speak of you as if you're the only person of your race and class to be worthy of the deeds that the other thousands of players have also accomplished. That's why Onyxia gets killed 4 times a day in Stormwind Keep. So when you, a Death Knight, defect to the Alliance or Horde, you are the only Death Knight, or a member in the only group of Death Knights, to ever do so within the ranks of the Lich King.


 * Yamamoto speaks the truth. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 04:18, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Although on the other hand, the RPG decided to explain why there are warlocks running around in public helping the Horde and Alliance heroes despite the fact that for the most part most warlocks are evil and secretive, and do not associate with members of the "good guys". The RPG calls these open warlocks, Uncorrupted warlocks. These represent a smaller faction of warlocks, but still these appear to be the only ones that paladins & Holy Light priests will be the most likely to associate with (without trying to kill), if they associate with warlocks at all.


 * As for the death knights, one might want to compare them to the uncorrupted necromancers. Like the above are necromancers that apparently remain on the good side, and are given more freedom, where their kind is usually huntedBaggins (talk) 03:15, 11 May 2008 (UTC)