Talk:Mogu empire

Where is the name "Mogu Empire" taken from? Secrets of the First Empire reveals that it was either called "Old Kingdom" or the "First Dynasty." --LemonBaby (talk) 07:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Edicts of the Thunder King says "First Empire"
 * Thunder King Insignia says "the first Mogu emperor, Lei Shen"
 * The Thunder King says "a magnificent wall that spanned the length of the empire" and "secured his empire"
 * Additionaly, every leader of the mogu is refered to as "emperor"
 * 08:38, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * So there are the names "First Empire", "Old Kingdom" and the "First Dynasty", but the name "Mogu Empire" isn't established in lore?--LemonBaby (talk) 08:50, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Educated guess, if there is a "mogu emperor", there is a mogu empire
 * I fail to see why we would change the article name
 * 08:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * So there should be a Dark Iron Empire as there is a Emperor Dagran Thaurissan? I would change the articles name because a new quest reveals that it was either called the "Old Kingdom" or "First Dynasty". The article was named when no offical name was given. With the new information, it should be at least noted that the name "Mogu Empire" is fan made.--LemonBaby (talk) 09:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * "Mogu empire" is the official name. Check this quest. --Cemotucu (talk) 19:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, that was my very first question: Where is the name taken from? Thx for the clarification!--LemonBaby (talk) 19:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Reviving! Since the "Mogu Empire" isn't capitalized in the sources provided, could we move this page to The First Dynasty based on this - ? Apparently the same thing as with the Illidari vs. Illidan's forces.--Mordecay (talk) 18:13, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I think "First Dynasty" or "First Empire" / "earliest empire" really only refers to Lei Shen's regime. The empire the mogu held continued as subsequent empires/dynasties after he died. As such the page title is more appropriate as is, maybe change the capitalization. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:26, 6 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Doesn't "The Thunder King was its founder and first emperor." imply that it continued? He would have been like "the only emperor", no? --Mordecay (talk) 19:43, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Secrets of the First Empire says "For two thousand years the mogu ruled this entire land. So brutal was their regime that its name is never uttered aloud: Pandaren call it either the "Old Kingdom" or "First Dynasty."" That seems to suggest that the First Dynasty was the entirety of the mogu empire, not just the Thunder King's reign. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:40, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Am I reading this right as Lei Shen is a parenthetical clause for the last mogu emperor? "Taking part in these daily quests will lead up to an epic showdown between the last emperor of the mogu, Lei Shen, the Zandalari, and those who would stop them – the Shado-pan and the heroes of Azeroth."

Grammatically, it could be a list where "last emperor" and Lei Shen are separate. Lei Shen was very clearly not the last mogu emperor, but I'm not aware of any other mogu emperor being involved in patch 5.2. With this and the confusing language of "first/earliest empire/dynasty" while talking like there was only one dynasty (when there was explicitly more than one), it seems Blizzard didn't know what they were writing. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:13, 7 April 2015 (UTC)


 * So maybe that meant the last emperor as for the resurrected Lei Shen? Also, checking the UVG it also says: "The Zandalari sought to rebuilt their fallen Empire by allying with the mogu and helping them resurrect the Thunder King, the most terrible and powerful Emperor of the Mogu Dynasty" (mogu empire is also used but is not capitalized). Really dunno what to do with it anymore. We have the legendary quest saying the thing Zeratul said but also the item which says there were more dynasties.

My suggestions are: move this page to Mogu empire (since empire isn't capitalized anywhere) and add a Bettername template OR move to the First Dynasty with the quest and the Lei Shen page as refs. In any case a section is about to be added about conflicting sources with the quest and the item.--Mordecay (talk) 14:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Do the pandaren, perhaps euphemistically, retroactively consider the Mogu empire to be the first dynasty of the Pandaren Empire?-- 16:05, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Maybe first dynasty/empire of Pandaria in general. The mogu ones were all pretty brutal towards pandaren. Everything looks like an asshole when you're getting shat on, so I guess the pandaren wouldn't notice the differences between the actual empire/dynasty changes. And then artifacts from within mogu society note separate mogu empire/dynasties. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 16:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Blizzard seemed to have based Pandarian's politics after Chinese history and the several dynasties that ruled the Imperial China. It is likely there was a single "Pandarian empire" that was founded by the Mogu, but was later taken over by their slaves (who ruled during different dynasties themselves). The seat of power wasn't changed at all even after the "First Dynasty" was overthrown. Cemotucu (talk contribs) 18:27, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization
Neither of the words in "mogu empire" are capitalized in-game. It's not a proper noun, just a description of the kind of empire. IDK why Blizzard chose to do that, but it is what it is. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 03:17, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with this sentiment. PeterWind (talk) 06:59, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Monara
It says right in the parentheses that Monara predates the mogu empire, thus she's not part of it. Her page says, "Monara was the last queen of the mogu, but was killed by Lei Shen so that he could start a new empire." Again making her not part of the empire. However, I don't know what the direct source is for those statements. All I can find is that Lei Shen killed her. Since there are no other rulers before Lei Shen for the empire, it seems likely she was one of the regional rulers that Lei Shen conquered when expanding his empire. I suppose she could have been Lei Shen's queen and ruled concurrently with him in the empire before he killed her. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 23:22, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, right, I had forgotten this page was about the mogu empire and not about the mogu history as a whole Xporc (talk) 23:25, 10 November 2017 (UTC)