Talk:Lament of the Highborne

Blood-Elf only
On June 6, 2007 I (Creighti) tried to edit this page to reflect the fact that only Blood-Elves can get this quest. I hoped to let others know not to do what I did and run their non-blood-elf (horde) characters over, get the locket and discover the quest giver only says "thanks" (not giving the quest to return the locket to Lady Sylvanas.)

My edit was undone because "Can be heard by non-blood elves too.", but my edit did not imply in any way that you had to be Blood Elf to hear the song, just that to turn the locket in to Sylvanas you have to be a Blood Elf. (Actually, it might imply that you have to be Blood Elf to find the locket too, which is not quite accurate, but I was trying to make minimal edits to the existing text.)

If the only concern is to be explicit that non-blood-elf players can hear the lament, perhaps adding a statement to that effect to the text of my changes would work? Alternatively, a separate statement saying that only blood elves can complete the quest might be better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I saw comments on thottbot that said that it was not required to be a Blood Elf to turn it in and hear the song. I'll try it later on my main to confirm. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 16:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Pzychotix. Just to clarify: you don't have to be Blood Elf to hear the song if a Blood Elf turns it in while you're in the room, but on my level 70 undead priest, I got the locket and turned it in in Tranquillen and did not get the quest to take it to Sylvanas.  (I understand that you'll want to verify that :-)  Ooops - didn't sign my original (sorry!) Creighti 16:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * In the video, the character is an undead too. Of course there's always the (slight) possibility that it's set up, but in either case, I'm about to turn it in and see for myself. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 02:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just did the quest line on my 70 tauren druid. Got to hear the song and everything. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 02:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, here as well. My fiance went through the entire questline with me (me a BE hunter, him a Forsaken priest) just before 1 AM PDT. Vannevar 06:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well hmmm, my apologies. I guess I'll have to try again with a different character.  I wonder if this changed in a patch.  What's proper for deleting incorrect discussion text? (As far as I'm concerned this whole section can get deleted.) Creighti 18:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I was playing my Draenei shaman, and while swimming through the lake next to Undercity this song began to play as I was heading to Scarlet Monestery, it puzzled me at the time, then I saw this article tonight, so the range of the song might be all around if this helps at all.--Azbulldog 07:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Creighti: Usually discussions are left so that other users who come across this subject can see previous discussions on the matter. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 18:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Soundtrack
Lament of the Highborne is also one of the last tracks on the World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade Soundtrack. Sabar 20:06, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * For future reference, you add a new topic at the bottom of the page.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:11, 21 January 2007 (EST)


 * In my opinion, it's one of the best in-game songs Blizzard has. The machinima is very cool, the song is amazing, the lyrics are SO sad, it's amazing. I can't stop playing the You-Tube video! I can't wait to get the locket with my Blood-elf character.Deiena 8:29, 4 Nov 2008 (EST)

Debate
Ok Ragestorm, clearly theres two sides here, care to put it under speculation? I disagree completely about the song's lyrics proving she is singing it, infact the lyrics and the emotes from sylvannas implies it isn't her singing. - Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 09:48, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * I said nothing about the lyrics, I was talking about the vocals. For most of it, there's clearly a single person singing, with backup. Never mind emotes (the phrase "technical restrictions" comes to mind), why would Sylvanas be unable to sing her own song? I'm not denying that the banshees are also singing, just that Sylvanas is leading them.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 10:11, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Nevermind emotes? lol, you've got to be kidding. [] There's the emote. Now granted "their" is vague, but considering that the lyrics make no sense for Sylvannas to sing, the song doesn't fit with emotes and quest text from her after the event (dismissing the necklace and her past to shut out her emotions), that during the song she is chanelling her spell, and that the song was originaly not part of the quest and is actually the credits for the game that are being reused, i would think it clear enough she isn't singing. I don't beleive the vocals in the song has any lore impact given its past, it doesn't hold up against the evidence against it. -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 10:22, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * You want lore issues, ask why they're singing about blood elves if it's supposed to be an ancient song. The lyrics make perfect sense for Sylvanas to sing; if she suceeded in burying he memories, why would she even be summoning the lamenters? Think about it: when your sister gives you a gift from beyond both your graves, would you sing an ancient song yourself, or would you call the band living down the hall to accompany you? Admittedly, it's slightly different being a Banshee Queen. Fact is, the song has no point if Sylvanas doesn't sing it- the banshees are there as part of Blizzard's sense of humor. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 10:39, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * Ok, taking a step back, and rethinking things through, especially with translation between Thallasian and Darnassian, i now realize the song isn't neccisarily about Silvermoon and Arthas, but perhaps the Troll Wars or even Zin'Azshara. answering why it's an ancient song. So Sylvanas could sing it if that's the case, but i still don't see her singing it due to the emotes and her channeling her spell. Its probably beleived it is about Arthas' desctruction of Silvermoon and the change to Blood Elves. If that is the case, then Sylvanas wasn't around for that, she would have no cause to sing of it, especially over the necklace and her memories of Alleria, unlike in the other case. Either way, the whole scripted event has little point, which is partly my point. Given it's history, it was seemingly never intended to be this way, and just jazzed up with loosely fitting peices and no thought of the implications by Blizzard. And to answer you probably irrelevant and rhetorical question, i would sing an ancient song by myself ;) -- Zeal ( talk  -  contr  - web) 10:57, 23 December 2006 (EST)


 * 'Wasn't around for that'? She fought tooth and nail to keep Arthas from Silvermoon and in fact died trying to save the Sunwell! Yes, the high elves did not turn to blood elves until after she was bansheed (look mom, I made a word!), but that does not stop her from knowing about it and they are still her original people, whatever they choose to call themselves. The original song can easily be ancient and about another matter like the Amani wars and use 'Quel'dorei' instead of 'Sin'dorei', which she changed upon her incantation. -- 21:10, 21 January 2007 (EST)

I think that's what I said at some point. However, if you consider Blizzard's descritions of night elf society prior to the WotA, it's easy enough for "sin'dorei" to be in the lexicon as a social class. Regardless, it's not a difficulty that she's singing at all. And Zeal, that piece of text isn't an emote, an emote is an action the character model takes. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:11, 22 January 2007 (EST)


 * Yes, it's an emote, it's orange ffs, it has her performing an action, it then describes an action taking place in the room. Its a god damn emote. And i still beleive i'm correct. If you think Varghedin and your own point was still valid, then you completely missed what i was saying. I cba to discuss it anymore, as i really don't care enough to argue about it. If you want to assume things and show bias on the wiki be my guest, really don't care in this case as i know it's me vs probably 80% of WoW players (who care) because people like to assume everything. This article still needs to be fixed to figure out wtf it is meant to be. An event term, an item, a quest, what?! If my other point about the origins of the song didn't hit home, then you also have it from the tBC making of DVD. I won't be reply to this debate anymore, everyone's already made up their minds. <3 twisted neutrality ¬_¬ -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 18:30, 22 January 2007 (EST)


 * I'm sorry, what is actually being debated here? Whether or not the song is coming from her mouth, or whether she's 'channelling' it? Because I cannot see how it makes the blindest bit of difference. Sylvanas causes the song. Who cares if she's the one directly singing it or not, it's still her making it happen. We could argue semantics all day long, because we don't have specific evidence either way. Zeal, not everyone has access to the making of DVD, so whatever points raised on that, you have to spell out here. In the interests of the wiki, I've clarified the article. 23:54, 22 January 2007 (EST)


 * Symantecs with impact (In this case the meaning of the song, how Sylvanas feels etc), and trying to remain neutral in the article. I beleive she isn't, but i'm more than happy with it just being neutral, in the sense the singing/channeling part be moved to speculation and none of it mentioned in the rest of article. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 07:49, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Update!
There is a lot of new information via an article contained in the June 2007 Games for Windows magazine. It is chock-full of interviews and questions answered by several of the devs on the game's past/present/future status. In a few paragraphs concerning the sound department, the 'song' comes up. Long story short? The mystery is solved. Read on:


 * "...Lady Sylvannas Windrunner, undead Banshee Queen of the Undercity, pausing to sing a song -- complete with lyrics in Thalassian (language of the Blood Elves) and summoned spiritual choir."

I think this pretty much sums it up. Btw, Zeal was correct in the above "their" would also refer to the Dark Lady not her banshees...it is often the most simplest route that is correct. The article also says she is lamenting on "the plight of various Elven races". Read on for more!

From Chris Metzen himself,
 * "This is called "The Lament of the Highborne," and Sylvannas is singing it, and I'll tell you why..."

The rest of the paragraph goes on as Russell Brower recounts how the quest was originally designed (you find the pendant, take it to her, she throws it down, that's it) and then how they re-worked the quest adding the song -after- Metzen heard it read/sung by the soloist.

Last note, for the record, the music piece was originally entitled "Eversong One" until Metzen and Kaplan got ahold of it from Brower...at which point they immediately changed the quest and "The Lament of the Highborne" was given life. p.s. sorry this was kinda long, etc. it's very late! Arideni 05:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well this is certainly some important information. Any chance you know of any online copies of this article? Or at least an outline on the reasons why she's singing it? Pzychotix 09:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hum.
 * http://wow.qj.net/World-of-Warcraft-s-Russel-Brower-explains-Lament-of-the-Highborne-/pg/49/aid/90270
 * It's a very interesting article on the subject. Pzychotix 09:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * From the article:
 * ''He corrects the issue of "Highborne," which really means that the song dates back over 10 millennia ago, at about the same time the Blood Elves were actually still the Night Elves. "It was a lament to fallen Night Elves, and a tribute to those whose bravery remained steadfast against overwhelming odds," he corrected.


 * ''Apparently, the song itself hasn't changed at all in melody, but the words were changed some 3 millennia ago (2,800 years) to reflect just how many lives were lost in that epic struggle against the Trolls. Soon enough, at the coming of Arthas and his Undead lackeys during the Third War, the song was used again to illustrate the defense of Quel'Thalas and its unfortunate demise.


 * ''So you're probably asking yourselves, "Why is she singing that old tune again?" Well, it's simple: she's singing to the Blood Elves as an apology for her failure to defend them. Her failure to defend Quel'Thelas and her people caused her guilt and pain, far more suffering than she probably received in the hands of Arthas.


 * ''In an effort for repentance or redemption, she also makes known her efforts to help the Blood Elves, even as a dark Queen of the Undead.


 * So, bluntly put, the song isn't for the Blood Elves, it's for all of the Elves originally. When faced with insurmountable odds, the song is then dedicated to all those who remain steadfast and stand their ground. At least now we're all a bit smarter about it now.


 * With a little bit more help from google, apparently the original interview can be found here: http://www.music4games.net/Features_Display.aspx?id=137


 * Hopefully we can incorporate this information and make it a good article. Pzychotix 09:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That is an incredible interview you found. The parts which I mentioned originally came from Games for Windows magazine, June 2007 (unfortunately, I was unable to find the article on their website). Our two articles of information together are indeed a great source of information and I am very glad to have come across this as when I went through the Blood Elves content, I was very surprised and amazed, like most of you I'm sure, at how wonderful it was.


 * Just for some fun factor, the Games for Windows article states that Russell Brower used to work for Disney Imagineering and that a lot of their work detailed story/background so it was really nice to get the opportunity to work on a quest indirectly through the music. I have to agree, this adds a lot of depth in such a subtle way. Lovely song, too! Btw, he said in the article that the quest itself was a hint at some of the future things they wish to be able to bring to the table in the future. Sounds great imo


 * I checked out the new page, it looks good and you added quite a bit or lore Ragestorm(I think it was you?) - looks great, you truly have a knack for all of the lore you were able to add to the page with it, thank you! Arideni 19:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Machinima update
The new video from Blizzard clearly shows her singing it. End of debate. RetPaladinJil 17:24, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Busted!?
Will typeing /script PlaySoundFile("Sound\\Music\\GlueScreenMusic\\BCCredits_Lament_of_the_Highborne.mp3") into the game make a GM ban you? Can they know?-- 22:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope. It's perfectly allowed. :) 22:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Banshee
In the movie where sylvanas sings, they show the Scourge storming the rangers. They show banshees, I know at least 1, maybe up to 3. I though Sylvanas was the only banshee. Mr.X8 15:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Good call. Not only, first. There should not have been banshees there until after she was slain. OOH! Retcon'd!-- 16:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally think this is an honest mistake on Blizzard's behalf. I do recognize that Blizzard retcons left and right all the time, but it always serves a higher purpose. I don't see what said purpose would be in this case. [[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif|16px]] AMBER (RΘCK)  18:05, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No it fits absolutely fine. Does anyone ever read the Banshee article? The Lich King had night elf banshees since before the Third War. Also read; . This is not a retcon this fact has been known since Warcraft III, if people read the manuals, RPG, and other material.Baggins 18:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * GAH! Embarrasing on my part. First high elf banshee. Erk.-- 18:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh and I meant to put first bansee, not only, I don't think I was paying too much attaention that day. Mr.X8 02:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Origin of lyrics?
So Blizz has quite properly credited both the music composers, but there is no mention of who wrote the lyrics. I want to create a calligraphy piece of the lyrics as a derivative work, but need to be able to credit the author of the words to do so. Anybody know?

Maybe I can get away with just crediting Blizz... "Lyrics (C) Blizzard Entertainment"... *worried look* Ifnis (talk) 02:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think, regardless of who wrote them, they'd be copyrighted by Blizzard. So you should be alright. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

WWI 2008 performance
At the 2008 edition of the WWI the song was sung by a girl named Sidney (Sydney, Cindy, Sandy, couldn't tell) Shapiro. Worth to mention (after checking up the name)?-- K )  (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there's no real reason (the article already explains who the recording artist was) to give that information in and of itself (a friend of mine sang it at our christmas party, should we mention that here?), but you could say that it was performed at the WWI and that she sang it. Then again, we don't really need to list every live performance of the song. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok then, maybe I thought the WWI was a bit more important than your christmas party, on Blizzard-related stuff I mean.-- K )  (talk) 23:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I should hope it is. I'm quite disturbed by the thought that Blizzard cares about my Christmas party. Yeah, fine, check the names and add if you want. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

How to hear Crimson Halls lament fragment
Macro is. Somebody add this to article in proper way, I am new to that.

Translation
As far as I am aware the in-game book which contains the translation from Thalassian is a Horde only item, so surely the song is translated into Orcish rather than "English" (whatever that is!). I removed "English" from the article and left it at that, as I don't think many Alliance players would appreciate coming to Wowwiki and seeing an Orcish translation written in what is CLEARLY Common.. gee this is getting confusing. -catbeef (talk) 16:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

History of the Song
There have been sources which explain the song differently, given them an entirely different history. First of all you have the following explanation;

''He corrects the issue of "Highborne," which really means that the song dates back over 10 millennia ago, at about the same time the Blood Elves were actually still the Night Elves. "It was a lament to fallen Night Elves, and a tribute to those whose bravery remained steadfast against overwhelming odds," he corrected.'' ''Apparently, the song itself hasn't changed at all in melody, but the words were changed some 3 millennia ago (2,800 years) to reflect just how many lives were lost in that epic struggle against the Trolls. Soon enough, at the coming of Arthas and his Undead lackeys during the Third War, the song was used again to illustrate the defense of Quel'Thalas and its unfortunate demise.'' ''So you're probably asking yourselves, "Why is she singing that old tune again?" Well, it's simple: she's singing to the Blood Elves as an apology for her failure to defend them. Her failure to defend Quel'Thelas and her people caused her guilt and pain, far more suffering than she probably received in the hands of Arthas.'' In an effort for repentance or redemption, she also makes known her efforts to help the Blood Elves, even as a dark Queen of the Undead. ''So, bluntly put, the song isn't for the Blood Elves, it's for all of the Elves originally. When faced with insurmountable odds, the song is then dedicated to all those who remain steadfast and stand their ground. At least now we're all a bit smarter about it now.''

The other explanation was published by a moderator on the warcraft forums, but was regretably deleted over time and explained it roughly as follows; The term sin'dorei at first didn't mean to honor the fallen, but actually was 10,000 years old already. It was an equivalent to the name Quel'dorei, but instead of meaning highborne it means 'born with the blood' or 'children of the bloodline'. When Dath'Remar Sunstrider and his followers fled Azshara's wrath, some stayed behind and sacrificed themselves so that the others could escape. The song was composed to honor those of the highborn or bloodborn line, especially those who sacrificed themselves. The term sin'dorei is used either ironically in the song or as a metaphor, namingly for your own blood or kin. This would give the song an entirely different history, as well as add to the history of the term sin'dorei. It's regrettable that the original source has been removed before recorded litterally. -sellanor (talk) 15:25, June 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Err... I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty seeing how radically different the versions are. The only difference is that the one you added suggests that there was no change to the lyrics and that it honored a very specific subset of the population.
 * This other version might have been deleted because it contradicted established sources. Unless an actual citation can be produced, it may have to be removed.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:07, June 3, 2010 (UTC)