Talk:Warlock builds/Archive01

What tree should you take?
In my experience it depends on three things: 1) What do your fellow players expect of you (or do you just run around in pick-up groups)?  2) What are you best at doing (as a general statement)? 3) What would you like to see in the way of play, damage, etc. (what's your play style)?

Affliction: Personally, I love this tree. DoT's are fun, frustrating for other players, and, I've found, can potentially do more damage in large groups of creatures than any one mage in the same party. How? Simple. Cast out your entire mana over the entire raid or party instance enemy group you're currently attacking and then wand like heck. If specced correctly, you're doing a ton more damage than the mage in the same party even if he or she is specced fire. Downside: Doing that much damage means your voidwalker is going to have a VERY hard time keeping the aggro off of you. I've accidentally had five elites on top of me in a party because the warrior could only hold one of the group we got hammered with and the rest couldn't hold aggro including the fire mage. WHEE!!! Also you have to deal with the debuff limitations. Lots of raid groups do not like warlocks taking up debuff slots.

Demonology: One of the most fun trees you can do unless you're a hunter. Why? Pets are fun to change out. One for a mana battery or spare wand, one as DPS or secondary net for unwanted aggro, one (supposedly) for tank or off-tank, one to get rid of those nasty spellcasts you don't want, and the newest one for the best tank and DPS I've been able to produce. Felguard has proved to be my favorite thing to watch. Before Felgaurd, no matter what I specced, I could still attack 4 Jadefire demons and survive, but barely. Now I can attack 7 at once and kill all of them before worrying about health. He holds the aggro and does massive amounts of damage like a Warrior pro. Downside: Lots of raid groups and even a number of parties I've been in do not like the use of pets AT ALL! And if you've ever been in a group with a badly controlled pet, you know why. Someone accidentally places their pet on Offensive and suddenly you have the entire dungeon coming down on your party. So you'd best be extremely good at pet use to begin with if wanting to use this, and then you'd best have some kind of option and be good at that as well because not everyone will even allow you to play your pet.

Destruction: The mage-wanna-be, but a lot of damage. Even I have to admit there is a ton of damage to be done with this tree. It won't do nearly as much damage nearly as fast as a fire mage, but then again the new 2.0 tree has the only shadow area of effect spell I've seen (finally). Give credit where credit is due. Want in to the raids and don't want to deal with people not liking your debuffs or your pets, you want destruction. Period. Downside: Impossible to keep the aggro off of you with a felguard or voidwalker should you decide to solo with this and pretty hard to keep the aggro off of you by warrior or feral druid.

Conclusions:

Destruction for no-questions, no-quibbles, no-prejudice-problems raid groups. For solo and farming it may be hard due to aggro but, like fire mages, still possible. Not recommended for people who don't like to die.

Demonology for solo and farming. Could be great in parties and raids, but don't expect everyone to like you.

Affliction for tons of damage, levelling, harassment, and overall mayhem, but don't expect to get very far with parties and raids due to debuff number concerns. Can be used for soloing and farming, but then not recommended for people who don't like to die.

- Barulseth/Murtau, Feathermoon

Leveling
Whats a good build while leveling from 1-60? im looking for something good to help level fast...

--Thursday 22:03, 24 January 2007 (EST)


 * I went destruction for those levels and liked it a LOT. --Viper007Bond 21:38, 24 February 2007 (EST)

I would go for (40/21/0) for levelling. When levelling, I'd sac the VW for the health regen (just stab yourself for mana). --User:Heathcliff, 05 March 2007


 * I'd simply go for Dark Pact. The health regen through Demonic Sacrifice is too minimal for levelling, and additionally you lose noticeable damage and damage mitigation (= health for a Warlock) from the pet. Furthermore, the combination of Life Tap and Dark Pact (old) offers endless mana, which can easily be used to regain health via Siphon Life (warlock talent) & Drain Life. --bfx 09:34, 5 March 2007 (EST)


 * I levelled as a mix until the 41pt talents came out, in which case I went 20/41/0[] for levelling from 60 to 70. This gives you a Felguard, Master Demonologist, Demonic Knowledge, Soul Link and Demonic Tactics from the Demonology Tree. From the Affliction Tree, it gives you Improved Corruption, Improved Life Tap, Soul Siphon (warlock talent), Improved Drain Soul (for a bit of extra mana regen), and Nightfall. Fel Concentration and Empowered Corruption can be swapped for other things ass need be, especially Fel Concentration, as your pet will be taking the beatings anyways. This proved very handy, little down time, great survivability, and great killing speed. Finsternis 22:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Other 70 Builds
I'm currently experimenting with 27/34/0 which gives Imp and Emp Corruption, Grim Reach, some Fel Conc, Nightfall and Siphon then pops over to Demonology for Imp HS, Imp Imp, Imp Succubus and then Demonic Knowledge. I was 41/0/20 and 40/0/21 and 0/21/40 for a while but oddly the DPS from this seems a lot better (with a Succubus out) or about level (with an Imp out, but now my Imp is buffed)... The build is at http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=NAMbmRfzMZRxcbIVz0xs -- Scribb, 26th June 2007 (GMT)

Moved old builds to their own page
Please see Warlock builds/Level 60

All of the pre-TBC builds are at the above page now. I also cleaned up this page to indent better (since level 60s were no longer there) 14:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Thought of a New Affliction Build
I am currently on a break from WoW but at work when I was bored, I thought of a build. It's something I did when I was leveling. It focused around the voidwalker Sacrifice ability. Not the Demonic Sacrifice but the bubble the voidwalker creates. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IAMriRfkqt0o0xIzcb The idea is, you keep void bubble up when your being hit and then max DOT all the enemies and resummon the voidwalker before the bubble drops and sacrifice again. I did this a lot when I was leveling like, I said, and even killed 5 people that were +10 levels higher then me when I was at lvl 45 leveling in Stranglethorn Vale. So I was wondering if any current Warlocks can test this build and maybe add it to the build list under Affliction if it works. Might be an amazing Arena or PvP build. Oh and I did the math; with improved voidwalker talent, sacrifice shield absorbs 3711.5 damage per sac. 2885 +30%. -- Buraisu  ( Talk ·  Contr ) 17:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Added some Purely PvP Destruction Builds
I added the (Shadow) and (Fire) Destruction PvP builds. Samalander 07:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

For all you people who may be just turning level 70 or what ever, for PVP, i suggest an affliction build while using our felhunter.

Good luck in your PVP!

Added DP/MF
This is a good Drain Tanking soloing build, but and also incorporates longer seduce & reduced resistances of Enslave for CCing instances. Having a strong drain life also helps keep you alive in instance boss fights where AoE damage is an issue and the healer is already stretched.

Focus is on getting as many instant cast DoTs & debuffs on as possible (so SL replaces UA) to make life drain stronger.

Variations on 0/21/40
Added the following:

Variations on 0/21/40 spec:


 * Fire Spec
 * Shadow Spec

Basically, those variations for shadow or fire warlocks were made with the thought that there are some situations in which the warlock must use his/her Succubus' Seduce ability. Thus, instead of spending one useless point in Improved Voidwalker or Unholy Power, combined with the lack of better Healthstones or instant summon, the build provides now:


 * Improved Imp - this should never be left out, regardless of fire or shadow build, just in case you need some extra stamina for the tank(s)
 * Improved Succubus - extra time on Seduce; also, the warlock can also focus a bit more on DPS

Instead of loosing one point into Improved Immolate for the shadow build, the point is added to Pyroclasm. Even if fire damage will be a lot low for a shadow warlock, some times the warlock will have to aid in AoE, and for this situation, a chance to stun the targeted group is a bit helpful. Might give the tank(s) a chance to re-gain aggro if something nasty happens. Besides, the point spent in Improved Immolate was useless.

What do you think? I thought that it's better to consider multiple possible outcomes of a fight, and also - some points were ill-spent.

Kerfax of Darkspear EU Kerfax of Darkspear (talk) 19:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm unconvinced. You may be right about Imp Imp, but 3 points in instant summon are not wasted. The ability to Fel Dom up a succubus to CC or a Voidwalker to sacrifice for a big personal shield is very valuable in an emergency, IMHO more valuable than improved succubus, especially as if you need to CC with the succubus you've already gimped your DPS by 15% anyway. There's also the handy combo where you summon a voidwalker before a hard fight and sacrifice it for a shield, then fel dom up another demon and sacrifice it to get your DPS buff and charge in with 29.5s left on your shield. Meanwhile in the destro tree Improved Immolate may be mostly wasted but so is Pyroclasm. Rain of Fire and Hellfire are almost completely unused for AOE in the end-game because Seed or Corruption is far superior. You have some valid points but I suspect they can be discussed better as points in the original 0/21/40 build than a separate build.Binkyuk (talk) 16:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

You really should not have deleted completely what I wrote.

Anyway - I used various calculators, and in the end, it does not matter if you're shadow-specced or fire-specced. The actual damage is the same, the only variable is the time it takes to deal that amount of damage. Kerfax of Darkspear (talk) 13:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't 'delete' what you wrote, I merged it into a variations section because the DS/S&F build needed a refactor. Binkyuk (talk) 15:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Right. Sorry. Rough week, and a very busy and annoying day. My bad. Kerfax of Darkspear (talk) 16:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Rockleeslotus wrote:

Affliction Raiding Build 42/9/10
This Build is meant for Warlocks who just hit 70. This build allows them to maximize DPS while having bad gear. First, you must take out your imp and leave it in phase shift(so it does not get attacked). While your in battle you want to spam Siphon Life, Corruption, Curse of Agony, Unstable Affliction, and Shadow Bolt in that order. Once you run out of mana use Dark Pact, your imp regains mana real quick. Make sure on bosses you Amplify Curse and use Curse of Doom, that'll make you crit at least 8k. You want to do Siphon Life and Corruption first due to the chance you may get Nightfall and you'll have an instant shadow bolt. The one talent point in healthstone is really random. The reason for this is if you have more than one warlock in your party, you can have more then one healthstone. The 5 in Shadow Embrace and the 2 in Howl of Terror will give you survivability incase you pull off the tank.



Here's some advice from a 'well-trained' warlock, regarding your post, Rockleeslotus:


 * Unstable Affliction: although we all may agree it's a good spell, it's rather intended for PvP, and even if it does count as both good DPS and another Affliction spell on the target, in order to suck more life, we can leave it behind for more burst damage, or for other must-need talents.
 * Improved Howl of Terror: Really, if you are in a difficult situation, and the tank just lost control, you do not want to cast something that will make the mob run around like mad. The reason being, it has a big chance of drawing unwanted attention upon your group. Also, it's intended for PvP mostly.
 * Dark Pact: Good, but since your Imp has little mana, it would only provide enough for 3-4 Shadowbolts. Instead, you should use Life tap, since you already have the bloody ability to heal yourself efficiently! Therefor, Dark Pact is redundant.
 * Shadow Embrace: Yes, it is useful to minimize damage done by mobs, but in this situation, Shadow Embrace will be better used as only another Affliction effect for Soul Siphon. Therefor, only 1/5 needs to be spent here.
 * Fel Concentration: This is only needed if you get hit. Since you're in a party, this means a tank will keep (or should, at least) mobs off you. Not needed.

Conclusion:
 * We now have 10 unused points, 11 if you count the 'arbitrary' chosen one in Improved Healthstone and 12 if you count the one you FORGOT to add.
 * You have not included Life Tap and Soul Siphon in an Affliction built, big mistake.
 * You have not spent even one point (the one in Improved Healthstone, for example) in Improved Imp, although you suggest keeping the little fellow out for mana.

Now, onward to a better built (at least in my opinion):

35/25/5

First, I will pull another 5 points out of the hat from Bane, which I will use later. That leaves us with 17 points. Points spent in Demonology will need to be at least 21, so even if you don't agree with how some are spent, the end justifies the means. Those 21 points, in one form or another, are absolutely necessary for raid builds, regardless of Affliction / Destruction, since they provide 15% more shadow/fire damage.
 * 4 Points in Improved Life Tap and Soul Siphon - better than Dark Pact, and you get more chances to survive. Search for Warlock Tanking to see what I mean.
 * 3 Points in Improved Imp, just in case.
 * 2 Points in Improved Healthstone - these are indeed arbitrary, but might as well help the raid/party.
 * 3 Points in Fel Stamina - Since we need points in Demonology, might as well get extra Stamina, although not much.
 * 3 Points in Demonic Aegis - This should never be left out from raid builds, read the tooltip.
 * 1 Point in Fel Domination - Might help, might not. It is needed, anyway, to reach 21 points.
 * 1 Point in Demonic Sacrifice - Sacrifice your Succubus and gain 15% more Shadow Damage.

Alternative: You might try to reach Ruin, but it won't provide as much damage, and since you wanted a build for bad gear, it's a risky business, what with having low spell crit in the first place (combined with even lower from choosing Affliction tree).

And to finally stop bitching around, here's why I think you should not post on WoWWiki without asking a veteran warlock first(that means I know you're a beginner as a lock)- no offense meant, of course, but you could give misleading advices:

First, you must take out your imp and leave it in phase shift(so it does not get attacked).
 * Yeah, I wonder who on Azeroth would rely on IMP dealing DAMAGE in a RAID / PARTY

While your in battle you want to spam Siphon Life, Corruption, Curse of Agony, Unstable Affliction, and Shadow Bolt in that order.
 * The right order is: Siphon Life, Curse of Agony, Unstable Affliction, Corruption, Shadow Bolt: this is because you need to have as many DoTs active as you can at all times, so you must cast them like that (30sec, 24sec, 18sec-with casting time, 18 sec-instant cast)

Once you run out of mana use Dark Pact, your imp regains mana real quick.
 * Hell yeah, because your Imp has the smallest Mana Pool of all your demons. Ergo, fast regen.

Make sure on bosses you Amplify Curse and use Curse of Doom, that'll make you crit at least 8k.
 * Now, if you actually did that a lot yourself, you would know that if a tooltip on an INSTANT damage spell (such as Curse of Doom) reads 'will deal 4k damage' - you DO NOT ACTUALLY deal 4.000 damage. Why? Because any mob you meet has armor, spell absorption, resistances, etc - in other words, the aforesaid mob will cancel x% of your damage. Thus, YOU DO NOT DEAL 4K GUARANTEED. And anyway, you only deal it at most 2 times on a boss.

The one talent point in healthstone is really random. The reason for this is if you have more than one warlock in your party, you can have more then one healthstone.
 * Well, you forgot to add a point for level 70, so there could be 2 random points.
 * Ummm yeah, so is it random or not? Anyway - I don't know if it helps much, and I think that even if you do have 2 HS, the cooldown is still up. Dunno really, I never tried this an probably never will, no one asked me to, no one I know tried it.

The 5 in Shadow Embrace and the 2 in Howl of Terror will give you survivability incase you pull off the tank.
 * Shadow Embrace will only make the target deal 5% less damage, which, coming from an elite mob, it means you end up dead anyway, but with one scratch less.
 * Howl of Terror, Fear, Death Coil - these are top 3 suicide spells (in that order), 90% of the time in a dungeon - do you really want to send mobs away to other groups?

These being said, I will only add a link and the phrase 'see Discussion Page for instructions/help on this build'.

Have a demonic time! Kerfax of Darkspear (talk) 20:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC), your helpful Warlock.

mmmm it seems Rockleeslotus deleted his build; dude, you shouldn't have. Anyway, I'll be posting an alternative affli/demo raid build soon, with tips. Kerfax of Darkspear (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC), your helpful Warlock.
 * FYI you've just recreated the 30/21/10 build with contagion instead of bane (and Bane > Contagion for this build IMO. Bane gives an impressive increase in raid DPS even for a dot spec that throws shadowbolts in their spare time). I'm slightly surprised 30/21/10 isn't on this page, it's an often talked about build (though usually not in a good way tbh). Binkyuk (talk) 18:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

lvl 70 Demonology Raiding Build post 3.0
Build as follows

Investigation: Demonic Frenzy receives a buff from Demonic Brutality of "3%" (at rank 3). Does this boost from 5% to 8% or from 5% to 5.15%? Since Frenzy will stack up to 10x, three points can mean an 80% increased attack power for the duration of a boss fight. Improved Health Funnel vs Fel Domination and Master Summoner (warlock talent). At least one point is needed in either Health Funnel or Fel Domination (emergency button) in order to support higher tier talents, although this point could be wasted somewhere else.

Benefits: Master Conjuror boosts the Spellstone that this build will use to get +1.30% damage on all DoTs and +52 Haste Rating (numbers to be confirmed). Mana Feed with one point, since the Felguard will primarily be using Cleave (Felguard) and not Anguish (felguard ability) - don't pull away from the tank. Demonic Pact is what's going to get you onto raids - 10% of your spell power made as a raid-wide buff. Demonic Tactics and Improved Demonic Tactics both in support of making this proc lots. Fel Synergy reduces the use of Health Funnel as 15% of your DPS goes as heals to the minion. Coupled with the points in Demonic Resilience, and the 80% chance of avoiding AoEs, the Felguard is pretty... 'resilient'. Bane. Lots of damage from this build comes from spamming SBolt after applying the DoTs. Being able to spam more of them is important for two reasons: Doing so directly improves damage (coupled with 52 haste rating, plus whatever you get from gear), and your crits (only possible via SBolt and first hit on Immolation) trigger Demonic Empathy for an extra 3% damage for the next 3 Felguard hits. --Onorvele (talk) 03:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks good, and we don't have a demo/destro build with Metamorphosis. One thing I'd suggest is completing Bane at the expense of either Demonic Empathy or Demonic Resilience (thankfully they changed Fel Synergy back to damage done instead of taken, so hopefully your demon will be kept fairly healthy unless it's directly attacked, in which case it's probably toast in a raid anyway). A lot of this build's damage will come from immolate and SB, and Bane is a big upgrade and actually increases in effectiveness as you add more talents (the % increase in fire rate from 3.1s->3.0s is bigger than 3.5s->3.4s if you calculate shadowbolts cast over time). Binkyuk (talk) 21:28, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd agree most with removing the points from Demonic Empathy to fill out Bane. Since the raid-wide spell damage buff granted by Demonic Pact depends on minion crits, keeping the minion alive is decently important.  An extra 5% damage mitigation is very helpful here, and stacked with the all the other buffs Demo Warlocks got in the 3.0.x patches I'd say minion survivability is significantly boosted.  Metamorphosis itself needs some testing: does the +600% armor propagate to the minion as well?  Does it stack with other buffs (or even debuffs like the +15k armor from Fel Rage in the Gurtogg Bloodboil fight)?  Does the +20% damage done apply to spell damage?  --Onorvele (talk) 02:19, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I suspect it's the same as druid form upgrades, in which case it's armour from items only and doesn't multiply armour from buffs and debuffs. On reflection I agree about Demonic Empathy instead of Demonic Resil. Even with 100% uptime it's only a 1% DPS increase per point, and you probably won't even get that in practice. Below par as talents go. Thinking about it, as the felguard is so important you might think about taking points out of healthstones and health funnel for Fel Dom and Master Summoner so you can resummon him quickly, but that depends how attached you are to bigger healthstones. Anyway, you should definitely put this on the main page so people can see it. Only 2 weeks of level 70 raiding left. Binkyuk (talk) 13:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)