Talk:Black Temple

Random bits
Hmmm... there seems to be an unsubtle link in the lore of the Black Citadel to Diablo. Where does this come from?
 * --Fandyllic 5:24 PM PDT 17 October 2005

There's a bit of a contridiction on this page. At the top it says it was a structure that was built by the Draenei then further down the page it says it was by Nerh'zul. Not sure how to edit that. --Karye Jan 2,2007


 * How the hell did that one slip through my net? Damn...
 * The Temple of Karabour was the most sacred site on Draenor, built by the Draenei in the image of K'ure's dimensional ship. It was overrun by the Horde in an attempt to kill Velen, but he escaped. Gul'dan and the Shadow Council took up residence shortly thereafter.
 * I was hoping to avoid spoilers for Rise of the Horde until next month, but I guess this cat's out of the bag. Remove the part about being built by Ner'zhul.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 11:17, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Maiden of Pain
Maiden of Pain --Xmuskrat 15:11, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

What are you trying to get at here?-Ragestorm

Image
I know that image is labelled "Black Citadel" in the game files, but I think it's far more likely to appear as Necropolis Naxxramas, from a distance (we'll see it floating above the Plaguelands).

Also, it doesn't make sense that there would be Scourge/Nerubian buildings in Outland.

Plus, there's concept art in the Art of World of Warcraft book of the Black Citadel, and it looks nothing like this. I'll try to post a scan eventually.


 * --Bevans (FeldmanSkitzoid) 14:07, 23 March 2006 (EST)

Is this really in Shadowmoon Valley? In TFT this was in Hellfire Peninsula. -Burnstuff
 * Yes it is in Shadowmoon Valley in WoW --Jaxdahl 18:18, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

Black Citadel is aka Hellfire Citadel, Black temple is another thing entirely. Hellfire (Black) Citadel on Hellfire Peninsula (see map), Black Temple in Shadowmoon. --Sylvarios 22:22, 16 November 2006 (EST)

See: Citadel vs. Temple In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, the building from which Magtheridon ruled was called the Black Citadel and was positioned where Hellfire Citadel would be on a map of Draenor or Outland. With the new map of Outland, it appears to be called the Black Temple and has been moved to Shadowmoon Valley.

It is most likely that the original map was retconned (much as maps of the Eastern Kingdoms were), and that the location on the TFT maps was Hellfire, not the Black Citadel, and that the Temple is the seat of power in Shadowmoon Valley. It is likely that "the Black Citadel" was what the people around Hellfire called it.

--Sylvarios 22:26, 16 November 2006 (EST)


 * It's even more confusing about which one Magtheridon used to control. I'm starting to think that he was in Hellfire Citadel, but that Illidan was moved to the Black Temple, two unrelated structures. Rise of the Horde reveals the history of the Black Temple (prior to Magtheridon, wherever he was), which I'll post after the holidays. --Ragestorm 10:14, 21 December 2006 (EST)

Magtheridon dictated over Hellfire Citadel. In Warcraft Three it was called, 'The Black Citadel'. --Sylvarios 14:48, 27 December 2006 (EST)


 * Note that almost all maps from W3 and TFT have been retconned (e.g. position of Moonglade to Mount Hyjal, Echo Isles to Durotar, most of Eastern Kingdoms, etc.), so we can consider map of Hellfire Peninsula as being retconned as well to suit new look of the Outland (normally the remains of Draenor would be just a landmass of red rocks with floating shards of stone). Magtheridon might have been (and probably was) moved from Black Citadel/Temple to Hellfire Citadel as it was there where Illidan's Fel Orcs are being "produced" with the use of Pit Lord's blood. --Sul&#39;jin 11:52, 3 January 2007 (EST)

It has been confirmed that Black Citadle = Black Temple, and that Hellfire Citadel is something else entirely. Yes I don't know why Blizzard chose to move Black Citadel from Hellfire Peninsula to Shadowmoon Valley.Baggins 10:02, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Illidan's Mental State
Doesn't seem like this belongs on this page.

Black Citadel and Heroes of previous wars
Rumors tell that beneath the citadel sprawls a great prison, trapped within are heroes from previous wars, languishing in unknown solitude. Just speculation, but this may be where Turalyon, Alleria and maybe others are kept imprisoned? Gotta check if that RPG stuff was implemented into the game. 06:14, 16 January 2007 (EST) Where exactly did u get this rumor?in the new RPG.....strange there isn't any "lost hero" in tye instance-Marakanis

Lore discrepancy
The page for the Throne of Kil'Jaeden asserts that Gul'dan called the orcs to drink the blood of Mannoroth there. The page for the Black Temple asserts that Mannoroth spilled his blood there, cursing Grom and the other chieftains. Does anyone have an official source where they can verify either of these two claims? --Maldian 06:23, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * Actually, it's not a discrepency. The Black Temple is were he first spilled the blood, but the Throne of Kil'jaeden is where it was consumed. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:32, 13 February 2007 (EST)


 * No? RotH had it happen all in one place, presumably Throne of Kil'jaeden (though not said). -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 17:59, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * I think that Mannoroth's blood was spilled and collected at the Temple in that chalice Gul'dan had, and he brought that to the Throne of Kil'jaeden. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:49, 1 March 2007 (EST)


 * Well i'll give it a reread when i'm done with sorting out the Citadel Vs. Temple stuff. I thought it all happened in the same area, remember a ritual place on a hill side, slabbed floor, the blood collecting in a large pool, then drinking from the chalice straight after, no location jump, but i could be completely off :/ -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 19:59, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Black Citadel?
It's wrong to say that Black Citadel and Black Temple is the same structure. The building that Illidan and his allies conquered was actually what is today called Hellfire Citadel. Think about it: if you look at the WC3 - TFT maps, you see that everything takes place in Hellfire Peninsula, not Shadowmoon Valley. And the fact that Magtheridon is inprisoned in Hellfire Citadel proves it even more. Why would Illidan move him? I strongly suggest that the article is changed in order to make it correct. --Odolwa 09:13, 22 February 2007 (EST)

Well I have a comment and a question. In TFT map of Outland The Black Citadel is next to A Stucture labelled Shadowmoon Ruins. Although I am a strong supporter of the idea that The Black Citadel is in fact Hellfire Citadel I just realized that and was slightly dettered by it. Then my question is if Illidan took over Hellfire Citadel then why did he move to the Black Temple in Shadowmoon Valley???

Sorry if I have offended any of you who believe, like me, that Illidan raided Hellfire Citadel not the Black Temple.


 * "It's wrong to say that Black Citadel and Black Temple is the same structure."
 * Actually according to Blizzard's blue individuals over in the forums, they have said that Black Temple and Black Citadel were one and the same for a long time now. Sorry that we didn't have any quotes to prove it however, as many of those discussions were closed later on.


 * "The building that Illidan and his allies conquered was actually what is today called Hellfire Citadel."
 * This was a fan hypothesis but was never confirmed by any blizzard employee. It has recently been debunked in the latest Insider report on Magtheridan's Lair. In which it states specifically that Illidan raided Black Temple during the events of TFT, and then later dragged Maggy's body to Hellfire Citadel.


 * "Think about it: if you look at the WC3 - TFT maps, you see that everything takes place in Hellfire Peninsula, not Shadowmoon Valley."


 * Yes, its weird that Blizzard would have such a major retcon in which a location originally in Hellfire Peninsula was moved halfway across the world to Shadowmoon Valley... We may never understand Blizzard's decision.


 * "And the fact that Magtheridon is inprisoned in Hellfire Citadel proves it even more. Why would Illidan move him?"
 * Actually it didn't prove anything, any more or any less, Illidan had him dragged to Hellfire Citadel so that fel orcs there could use his blood.


 * "I strongly suggest that the article is changed in order to make it correct."
 * It has been changed to make it correct, that is including the confirmation that Black Temple = Black Citadel. Although now discussion of the events as they occured in TFT are left in Black Citadel (Hellfire Peninsula), and events of WoW are in this article, and discussion of retcons are in Black Citadel (Hellfire Peninsula) .-Baggins 09:48, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Okey, I'm beaten. But you have to admit that my explaination would had made much more sense ;) --Odolwa 07:36, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

2.1 Patch
World of Raid's says this is the 2.1 patch. 

Posted by Blizzard, but removed:

World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade: The Black Temple

Originally founded as a Draenei temple, this plot has been conquered and despoiled many times throughout the history of Outland, removing any spiritual grace it may have once held. The Black Temple has been the stage of the Orc Horde's blood curse, a fortress for the then-mortal Ner'zhul, and a prime staging ground for the Burning Legion's campaign of destruction. Most recently, it has been claimed as home by Illidan, where he and his minions make their bid for power over the remnants of the shattered planet. Now, it is up to you to face the malefic forces of Illidan and his minions in hopes of freeing Outland from chaos and tyranny.

Black Temple is a 25-person raid dungeon located in Shadowmoon Valley.


 * Explore an ancient site steeped in Warcraft lore
 * Gain access to more than a hundred new rare and epic items, including tier-6 armor sets
 * Choose your path through a nonlinear level-70 raid dungeon, as you make your way to...
 * Face Illidan himself

--Xmuskrat 10:13, 23 February 2007 (EST)


 * Looks like it links to existing lore, and it finally confirms that the Temple of Karabor/Black Temple was indeed Fortress Shadowmoon. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 10:24, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Attunment?
Does anyone knows wether any attunment will be required? Would be cool if you are required to have completed battle of mount hyjal or someting rather difficult
 * http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/btattunement/ *smirk* - Dark T Zeratul 06:42, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
 * This is A JOKE. it was posted for april fools. it even said so on the forums. i am taking down that it has been said what the attunement is, if nobody objects. it is obviously a fake (to go into molten core?)--Haddon 00:41, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Move it to an Attunement April Fool's page if it hasn't already. It belongs with all the other Category:April Fools articles.Baggins 01:01, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Released?
Well Patch 2.1.0 isn't released yet, so the phrase "Released with Patch 2.1.0" is actually misleading, implying it's already out. Don't know if I should revert that, though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Was it really that confusing?! Fixed. 22:11, 21 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Well I wouldn't mind if we'd at least knew a release date for 2.1.0 ;) So that there'd be a definite point in time at which that phrase would be true -- Nathanyel 07:47, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Attunement (PTR)
According to the sounds from the PTR, Illidan ask the Ashtounges to go kill the Phoenix God in Tempest Keep (1st boss there).

It appears this would be a part of the attunement.

Data mined information
Information based on data mined files does not belong on the page, specifically, the events surrounding Illidan's death. Wait until it happens in-game. -- 14:59, 18 April 2007 (EDT)


 * This is a sticky issue as it's not quite posting datamined content, but talking about datamined content. I do agree that this stuff should be kept to a minimum however until 2.1 is live, in the interests of Blizzard and not spoiling too much. 15:28, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Akama
So the banished Broken has the same model as Akama - brings to mind the assumption Illidan found out about his treachery, and the player has to free Akama, e.g. to summon Maiev, and/or gain access to Illidan's chamber - Nathanyel 04:54, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Pre-2.1
How did the path to the Black Temple looked like before the attack? Was there anyone? --Mordecay (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it was the same as now, just empty of NPCs. Doomwalker was there since the beginning. Xporc (talk) 19:46, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There were some elite demons there, too, just no Sha'tari forces fighting them. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:47, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The same demons as now? --Mordecay (talk) 19:49, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Move
Yay or nay? This isn't something to be taken lightly. Xporc (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * For me yay. Karabor is now known as Black Temple, the same thing that happened to the Tomb of Sargeras and Temple of Elune. So this page to instance and Temple of Karabor to Black Temple. --Ryon21 (talk) 16:32, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well I already know you're ready to update tons of links that shouldn't be a problem at least, I just want other people's opinions :D Xporc (talk) 16:38, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Haha yeah I know. Let's wait the others then. --Ryon21 (talk) 16:41, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm okay with it. Aliok (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Both Temple of Karabor and this page are rather short (if you collapse the mob list). Why not combine them?-- 21:47, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well Ryon? Xporc (talk) 16:14, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * So, we'll have Black Temple with all the lore and merging Temple of Karabor in it. Then the other page will be Black Temple (instance) and will only be about that, the instance. Or maybe just make it all in one page? I don't know. Maybe keep separated the lore and the instance since it is a major lore location and it will have more lore with Chronicles 3 for sure. --Ryon21 (talk) 01:22, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If we're not just merging all the lore into this page (which isn't really a bad idea), then it's probably better to just keep Black Temple for the dungeon and Temple of Karabor for the lore and history. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ok lets merge. It would be better and we won't have to change any links... I think. --Ryon21 (talk) 03:17, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In this case I vote to wait for Chronicles 3 before merging the Temple of Karabor and the Black Temple. Who knows, maybe we'll get so much lore than the page split will be justified. Xporc (talk) 08:28, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah I thought the same before. Then we'll wait. --Ryon21 (talk) 13:29, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Okay, this page has had a tag for a long time now. Merge Temple of Karabor in it, or move this one to Black Temple (instance)? I don't think Chronicle 3 brought any new lore to the raid. Xporc (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Merging the page would be great imo, but honestly splitting the dungeon & the lore would be great too. 20:16, 23 April 2018 (UTC)