Wowpedia talk:Village pump/Archive15

Blocking Gold Selling Ads
Hi All,

My names's Gil and I'm the CEO of Wikia. I wanted welcome you to Wikia and see what we can do to help. In the short term, I had an idea to work with you on creating a list of sites that sell gold, so we can experiment with blocking them and see how much it reduces revenue. I know it will hurt some, but as a fan of the game, I believe it's the right thing to do. Is there any public list of these sorts of sites, or do I need help from you figuring it out?

Thanks,

--Penchina 20:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Here is a list I started about a year ago when I attempted to block them on my own sites. The problem with adsense is that you reach the maximum entries before you can block all the vendors unless it is possible to can make arrangements with google. -- 21:43, 11 May 2007 (EDT)


 * There's one vaguely maintained list on the wiki at WoWWiki talk:Google ads on WoWWiki#Bad Ads, but it's in no way complete. 22:27, 11 May 2007 (EDT)


 * We get a little extra love from google because of Jimmy Wales (wikipedia founder) being our founder and inspiration, but it's true - we may run out of blocking power too. The alternative is to move to a graphical ad network that gives us more control.  We did this with Dofus.wikia.com at their request and a couple others.  How annoying is it that google lets them get away with this??  I've had 4 gold selling sites call me already... I try to let them down easy  Penchina 22:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Let em down easy? Bah! We'd prefer ya got nasty with them ^^   22:57, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Bad Admin! /spank
 * Nasty? You know, selling gold is these people's lifeblood. Imagine how you might feel if you were the (ever annoying) poor Phone-baker’s salesman who sold bread, biscuits and cakes by telephone – whilst almost everyone you called began insulting you and telling how much they hated you and your way of living? Kjærleik 04:26, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Can I have some of what you're smoking/sniffing? That way you might actually start making sense to me.... Or, wait, I have a better idea... you can go away and come back when you start making sense to everyone at large? Deal? Mikk  (T) 07:32, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * I'll remember to be nicer the next time a telemarketer tries to sell me BREAD.  09:53, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Trust me, they sell all kinds of stuff. Bread too. Kjærleik 15:11, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Gold sellers are more related to the guys on the street trying to sell Folexs and Timexx watches. 15:16, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * But do we get nasty with them? Kjærleik 16:31, 13 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Some drug dealers also have only 1 way of making an income, its also illegal,,,, are you nice to them too ? i doubt it, Goldselling is prohibited, and a public source should in no way condone cheating or any type of illegal activity.. 09:37, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * I think the ads should STAY
 * Why? Simple, gold selling exists in WOW because the game designers at Blizzard created an economy where gold was given an exaggerated value by fixing high costs on items that players want.  In other words, the excessive price of epic flying mounts creates a market just as the previously excessive price of epic land mounts.  For most players its not worth the time to grind out that much gold, their time and money is much better invested elsewhere.  Considering the time to gold earning ratio its less than minimum wage to make the gold in game.  So until Blizzard creates causing problems with their economy I don't see why gold ads need to be banned from WOWWIKI, these sites are part of the game Blizzard made.  07:24, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * There are so very many things wrong with that logic... first, and foremost, buying/selling gold/items for real money is explicitly prohibited per the TOS. It also goes against the general mindset of this community.  Personally, the Gold ads don't bother me, since I have them all blocked on my adblocker, and I am fairly certain that it's 'common knowledge' that the ads that show up through Google are not necessarily representations of what the website agrees with, but it would be safe to try and keep them from showing up as much as possible.-- 09:16, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * The adds need to go, the sooner the better... i cant begin to list the reasons since there are soo many. the fact that its prohibited is just 1 of the many.
 * its silly that google doesn't allow better filtering, or at least by keywords as well. (anything that includes the words levelling, gold, cheat, hack, glider should be blocked off to begin with. 09:35, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Levelling should be allowed as that includes guides and not just services. Same for gold. How are you going to be sure you haven't kicked off a site that simply sells a guide?  -- 15:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The real reason why gold selling is not allowed is because it causes legal issues. When there's a dollar value put on ingame currency, one starts to question things like tax laws.  From what I understand, they have to outlaw gold selling for fear of being called a casino. --Chtaiae 22:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

In any case, the discussion won't change matters, so there's no need to get worked up over it. We should get back to the original question:  "Is there any public list of these sorts of sites?"  09:43, 14 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Havent seen any. but type in "warcraft gold" in google and voila, insanely long list... ewww. 10:20, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * With subject to blocking goldspam.. should this also include links in the wiki that link to sites with goldspam? e.g.  10:57, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * You mean linking to sites who have gold ads? I think that's a crusade doomed for failure, unfortunately.  We can at least sanitize our lil section and make sure to carry lots of alcohol wipes.   11:20, 14 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Sorry, blocking sites that have gold ads sounds like a double standard. WoWWiki is having a hard time getting the gold spam ads off the site (hense the topic), yet you want to ban sites that have gold ads on them from being in the wiki?  14:54, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Um Tecnobrat....that is what this is all about, removing them from the ads. -- 16:10, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
 * I'm fully aware of that. But I don't believe we can start removing external links that have gold selling ads, until we have taken care of this problem ourselves.  Seems a little hypocritical.  One step at a time IMO. Just my 2c.  17:03, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
 * What does this topic have to do with removing external links? The topic is about removing the gold ads. -- 17:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Re-read, missed CJ's oddly indented comment before, ignore. -- 21:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a tough balance, but we will do our best to respect the desires of the community for a great service, a fast site and a vibrant community, while still running a business. If you're not happy with anything, feel free to email me via my talk page. I get 400 emails a day already, so a couple more really don't bother me :-) We're asking google to give us extra blocking capacity, as we've already used up the first 200 sites they normally let you block. Vlad also introduced me to the WOW Forum admins and they should unblock us once we're done!  Penchina 05:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to make things clear. I'd love to end the whole Gold-Ads selling discussion here, for those who happen to be a big fan of it. There's one(!) reason for deleting the adds. We are NOT allowed in the Blizzard Website Fanlistings for aslong as these adds exist. Why do we want to be there? First and foremost, because of the extra powers it gives us. Many of the Fanlisted websites get the power to distribute things like Beta-Keys (I've got 10 of the keys that I received through a contact from a website, which I'm not going to name, cuz that's actually not allowed for that person. I had more keys though.) But they also get news straight from Blizzard in certain cases. This includes, but is not limited to information before anyone else gets it, beta-keys and more surprises. [] gives a nice European overview. Too lazy to go to the American, however, we will be able to apply to both, as our website covers both Europe and America and even to some extent the Asians... This, my friends, is the ultimate goal for the wiki in my opinion. If we reach the listings, the wiki can only go uphill. Add in a few Community Events from time to time and things will increase dramatically. These things are NOT possible for as long as those adds hang around.
 * Once again, I vote for adding a "donate" button. I myself would even donate through that button, but I refuse to press the google ads. There's so many ways of getting a revenue. Perhaps a "Banner" list on the main page, where anyone can buy Banner space to promote their website (as long as it doesn't violate blizzards ToU). With the amount of players passing the website, I'm certain we'll be able to attract people with Banner Space. There's some more ideas running in my brains, but these are the best I can currently write down.
 * I really hope that this Wikia switch will Help against the adds. I'm really happy to see that you care for the Wiki, Mister Gil, I was actually afraid that you were some kind of dude branded on only making money with the wiki. I hope we will be able to work better and better with you in the future. //  P a t r i g a n  | Talk / Contr \\  15:39, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks all for the input. We are a company so at the end of the day we have to pay for extra servers, paying for better image caching, backup datacenters, etc - but I like to be able to sleep well at night and that means following the WOW rules (TOS), and being good to you and the other fans.

Found this randomly on the internet. http://www.nogold.org/ is it something we might be interested in? 17:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Why does "nogold" make me think "you no take candle!"?  17:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I looked up that site as well Reskar as I remembered it from a long time ago, But it appears like a completely dead project. -- 17:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I just moved our jumbled bad ad listing to Bad ads and nailed down a format/standard that is machine readable. If kept up to date, a list such as this could be automatically parsed by ad blocking software. And supervised by our fine admins / RC patrol of course so that we're not blocking things we shouldn't be blocking ;) Mikk  (T) 14:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm loving the new cleaner site... I haven't seen anything goldspamish in the last few weeks... Nice work guys! --Sting-Ray ZA 12:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Would it be possible to move them to say, the bottom right corner, in a tiny box? Deters people from visiting the site in my experience, and promotes something I don't believe in. Not that it stops me from coming here, but I've heard that the Warden also scans your headers, and some of the content on the webpages you're on, and reads your RAM which could lead to a ban. This is all pretty much exaggerated but some people may not visit based on those facts. I'll continue to use and contribute. Fr0 09:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Even if that were true, it would be dishonest to attempt to hide the ads in such a way. We are trying to prevent bad ads showing, not to hide the one we do have (this site needs revenue somehow!). 15:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Namespaces
So, Kirk and I were discussing, now that the move is done, shall we set up some "proper" namespaces? As I see it, we need an API: namespace and it probably wouldn't hurt to have Server: and Guild:. Servers/Guilds are the most likely to clash with each other and the main namespace, and API's already in it's own "quasi-namespace", why not clean that us and use the features of mediawiki? Thoughts? 18:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Does anyone know any examples of wikis that have their own custom namespaces? Although I was originally a large proponent for this manuever, I'm sort of wary of what kind of impact it will have on the wiki. Hopefully none at all and easier to use tools, but, I'm just saying. Prepare yourselves.-- Hobinheim  ( talk •  contr ) 18:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The main reason why we should start using more and more namespaces is simply because of the better search possibilities with it. Imagine looking for a guild called "Sons of Lothar" Such guild does exist (no I'm not referring to some Warrior I saw in Honor Hold or to some mage in Satt, not mentioning the dwarf in Wildhammer either) with the namespace search this would be pure win! That's why I'm a BIG fan of dozens of namespaces which makes things so much easier to search! Other than that, why use pseudo namespaces, when you can use the REAL deal! //  P a t r i g a n  | Talk / Contr \\ 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

As for the "noone else uses it," hrm, that really a good reason? "If everyone else jumped off a cliff..." :P And, FYI, Wikipedia has a Portal namespace added to theirs. Do we have to do this? No. Would it help clean up a few things, and separate out distinct areas of the wiki? Yea. By adding a proper API namespace, addons that host here can use it as well. Doesn't API:Dongle/Events look pretty? Oh yes, we can also turn on selective breadcrumbs for a namespace, the user one uses this. For example, see the top of User:Tekkub/Addon News. We might want to turn that on on the main namespace even, every subpage I've seen that wasn't a transclude-only page had breadcrumbs at the top. 18:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For a tad more info, see Meta. In adition to searches, links are a bit easier to manage... Take "Sons of Lothar"... they might have a page at Guild:Sons of Lothar (Draenor US), by using   their links show up as Sons of Lothar, without extra effort.

I saw a "Forums" namespace on the other wiki for wow under wikia. In any case, I'd suggest having a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Custom_namespaces to set up new namespaces :) A particularly brutal change that would have to be botted would be:"Note: Any existing pages whose titles start with the letters 'Foo:' or 'Foo talk:' will become unavailable, so you'd better rename them first." Other than that, it looks like we'd be fine. --Sky (t · c · w) 20:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * So we'd need to do a sweep first to make sure eh? I know API uses "API_", but there are some "Guild:" pages for use.  21:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

API isn't so much an issue as Guild: and Server: are, and likewise, Talk:Guild: and Talk:Server:. Other than that, yeah. API pages would just be moved afterward. With the case of Guild and Server and talk pages, we'd have to move the pages from Guild:Violence (Shadowmoon US) to Violent (Shadowmoon US) (and Talk:Guild:Violence (Shadowmoon US) to Talk:Violent (Shadowmoon US)), and then move them back to the correct namespace after (Guild:, Guild_talk:, Server:, and Server_talk:). --Sky (t · c · w) 21:51, 22 May 2007 (UTC) Forgot two, and those are Quest: and Talk:. That's gonna' be the most interesting... --Sky (t · c · w) 22:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yea, I'd like to see guilds re-catted in the process, so that Category:Guilds was sub-catted into each realm. Kinda like the subzones recat.  In fact, the simplest solution may be to make Guild take a server and create the cat for it.  With that info in could also populate an armory link and a basic info header.  22:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

where 1 is the name inside of the parentheses would work, but I'm not sure how to get that information. Alternatively, we could just change the auto guild cat to, where 1 is the server and region (eg, Kel'Thuzad US) I think. I also thought of two more namespaces we'd have to convert: Boilerplate (its talk page) and one other (I don't remember the one other atm; maybe I'll recall it later). I'm not real sure Boilerplate needs its own namespace, but w/e. --Sky (t · c · w) 01:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You'd have to pass the guild name and server to the template, there's no string functions in the parser funcs. It could be done, and ones without that info could be catted as "Guilds needing server information" or something.

I can see how "Guild:" and "Server:" could be called-for. I'm not sure having an API namespace is a good idea. Addons living under an API heading? Hello? Mikk  (T) 10:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Guild and server info is player-related information without a globally unique naming scheme, and is maintained by a small group of players/contributors
 * Everything else, and this includes API info, has naming fixed by Blizzard and is maintained by a large pool of contributors
 * Hmm, do we have any plans on when this'll happen? And I assume I should still keep at my job in moving any pages to a "Guild:" prefix in the mean time? Pzychotix 11:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure that's a good idea, but perhaps someone with a more thorough understanding of mediawiki would be able to say for sure. Mikk (T) 13:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No... addon APIs in it, think Dongle, Ace, Cosmos libs... Addons would stay in the main namespace.   23:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, Guild and Server are the only ones that are really screaming for a namespace. Never really agreed with the whole API thing because they've never collided with other articles. They're already named so obscurely anyway.-- Hobinheim  ( talk •  contr ) 15:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Ahhh I forgot. Quest also. Guild, Server, and Quest.-- Hobinheim  ( talk •  contr ) 15:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I know the guild namespace already exists as wowwiki policy: Policy/Writing/Guild_pages and the servers are all in the name space: Category:Servers

It is not a true namespace. -- 15:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, those namespaces weren't actually created. Putting "Guild:" in front of page names doesn't automatically create a namespace, unless it's registered with the wiki, I think. Pzychotix 15:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

By all means I support them then definately for those two! API functions themselves prehaps should have a space, not everything API related needs to go in it however, unless we do a lot of redirects... Quests sounds like a good one too. (and stupid me for forgetting my sig...) -- 15:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC) /me ponders... --Sky (t · c · w) 22:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think Quest: should go; those are part of the game. But Server: and Guild: should stay.

Part of me would agree with you. And then other part of me is like wait there are those tier armor quests that are the exact same name as the items you win. Or quests that are the names of NPCs. Then the other part of me is like why do I have so many parts of me?-- Hobinheim  ( talk •  contr ) 02:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC) Besides, all those pages are from an era that WoW has left, anyway. --Sky (t · c · w) 03:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * (quest) ;P

I don't like the "pseudo-namespaces" the more I think about it. It feels like "yea I want a namespace, but I don't want to commit to it." I still havn't heard any cons to using namespaces, just a note that we need to move pseudo pages before the change. So, I'm gonna give an ultimatum. Either we implement a proper namespace "Blah" or we move the pages to disabig'd pages "Blah (quest)". One or the other, no more of this fence-sitting. We don't have a good reason to look like we're using a namespace, but not actually tick off the setting on the server so it's a proper one. 15:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC) No, no, no, no disambigs on quests... Some of them already have long, hard to understand disambigs! The Binding (Voidwalker, Stormwind) for example. Would we really want to make that longer? Please, no. If we're doing custom namespaces, I fully support Quest being included. I will cry if I have to write out all of those Warlock quests with the same names like that. It's already enough of a pain in the ass.-- DuTempete  talk  |  contr  19:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC) And I found another example that would probably need to be changed: Spell: :) --Sky (t · c · w) 15:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * DuTempete, it would only apply in the case that the quest has the -same- exact name when compared to an item or an NPC. Frostfire Robe, for example, has a quest named the same to attain it. In your example, that page would probably come to exist as The Binding (Voidwalker, Stormwind).


 * Yes, I'm fully aware of when it would be used, and that is exactly why I have a problem with it. I suspect there are more quests like that, than you think, and often, such as in the Warlock questlines, those quests are already disambiguated from other quests and items.  My point is that disamiguating quests from items would go beyond reasonably complicated. -- DuTempete   talk  |  contr  15:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make sense. All I can think off of the top of my head are the Naxxramas quests for items, and the Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj quests for items. :/ wtb examples --Sky (t · c · w) 16:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The namespaces are useful for templating when will return PageTitle instead of PageTitle -- 17:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I see where my examples are off, now. Sorry about the attitude; I've had a really grumpy week, and I'm biting heads off all over the place.
 * Although it's possible, I think it's highly unlikely to cause as much of an issue as I thought. -- DuTempete  talk  |  contr  13:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article reminder
We need more votes and suggestions! Visit Wowpedia:Featured article today! :) 07:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * A quick update on this, I have expanded both the info page and the nomination page. Take a look, hopefully the guidelines are a bit clearer (and the nomination process easier) now! Please take a moment to nominate or comment on one of the many suggestions. 14:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Weapon analysis pages
Currently, our only weapon analysis pages are rather empty, usually only containing a partial list of blue or epic items and little to no discussion of which is best and why (see Epic staves analysis). Epic dagger analysis comes closer to being useful, but as the big Clean this page up marker at the top of the page makes clear, we can do better.

I suggest a complete 360 on how we support item analysis. In my mind, the current system is flawed at a fundamental level. Weapon type is not a good indicator of the use of a weapon. There many different varities of dagger, and yet under the current system, caster daggers like Claw of Chromaggus are compared to melee dps ones like Perdition's Blade. Almost no class that would consider using one of these items would also consider using the other, so the comparison is useless. Similarly, feral druid staves are listed right along side caster DPS sticks. Why a mage would ever need an attack power bonus in cat form is quite beyond me.

Instead, we should follow a system similar to Kaliban's Class Loot Lists and give each class a page on which to analysis the various equipment options available. There would, of course, be different sections for different specs, and tanking gear could be seperated from DPS gear, but it would all be there. Lists of gear would be present, but not the only function of the page. I feel this system would not only provide the page with useful information, but also would make the page more likely to be edited. --Mikaka 23:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Mikaka - The analysis pages started with the Dagger one (which was very good), but I "corrupted" them into just being big equipment lists to help me establish which item pages was missing to create. I agree a Kaliban-style discussion would be much better (See the Healer and MP5 lists on the Wiki). --Dracomage 13:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Still in favour of deleting the whole lot. i mean... seriously L2Thott. 09:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * coughcoughsrslycoughcoughcough --Sky (t · c · w) 16:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Aside from the offhand comment, those pages would be helpful if they actually provided analysis... --Sky (t · c · w) 16:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is something I have always wanted to see a thorough, and understandable guide on. No, it shouldn't be a huge-ass list of tooltips, or even the aggravating blather about which dagger has the most DPS.  IMO, it should be an article categorized similarly to Kaliban's: Class pages, then spec sections.  What I want to know is which item is going to benefit me the most, considering my own talent choices.  If that could be clearly stated by anyone, with a proper and only slightly technical defense, I would hug that person; maybe even hump their leg. -- DuTempete   talk  |  contr  17:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

For weapons i use ... so.. still daggers,, ya know ? 06:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Patch 2.1.2 on PTR
Hey, guys...

PTR Patch 2.1.2 at WoW Forums

Just thought you should know! :3 I'd make an article myself, but I haven't been paying enough attention as to what to write. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 08:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Notes located at Patch 2.1.2, redirect from 2.1.2, undocumented at Patch 2.1.2 (undocumented changes). --Sky (t · c · w) 16:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

New armory (US)
The Armory (US) is updated. Read the updates.

It got a new item page, so the external links template maybe should include a link to the armory as well? An item at Armory.

-- 09:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, nevermind. I just noticed that the template Elinks-item already got a link to the armory. -- 09:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Tekkub is just too speedy for you :P 10:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Do we get a new armoury (<-) too? Kos 07:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, European Players get a new armory too. :-) Tyka 10:29, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Pruned the VP, once again
Pruned; I kept the still-pretinent discussions on the VP, as seen above. --Sky (t · c · w) 01:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I was gonna, but I couldn't really figure out which topics were still being talked about and which weren't. It seemed like everything was still being talked about at some point in recent time, to me.  >_o;  When I realized this, of course, I panicked and undid everything I did.  In any case, appreciated.  ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 07:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

WoWWiki Sponsorship!
See 2007 BlizzCon Invitation! --Sky (t · c · w) 01:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I think I should go because I am blond and have big breasts. I could be like those ladies marketing cars. Kos 04:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * European here.. left out again. blah :p 06:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, even though I understand there are many Blizz fans in the USA, I'd have bought a ticket to Germany or the UK to go to a convention like this one. BLIZZARD DON'T FORGET US!-- K )  (talk) 10:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Why do you have to live in the USA? Kos 11:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * One of the unfortunate restrictions of the way it's being done, I think. 12:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * At this notice, an international ticket, particularly from Europe, would be ludicrously expensive. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It isn't that expensive. Norway-Miami: 6700 Norwegian crowns (NOK), 837 €. Kos 07:38, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a new program for Wikia. We have never sponsored anyone to go to events like this so its a bit of experiment :) Therefore, our budget quite small. Domestic flights are less than $500, where as there are no flights from Europe or Asia for less than $1,000. We decided it was better to send 2 people from U.S than just 1 from Europe. If this goes well,  we would love to sponsor similar events in Europe and Asia. Feel free to leave me any other feedback on my talk page angies 16:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * i got family working at the airport, i can fly with 40% discount :p 06:14, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Remove imp sap
I believe imp sap should be removed and changed for the new talent Dirty tricks that was implemented i nthe lastest patch for the rogue subtly tree. On all the talent pages and rogue class pages it still shows imp sap as a talent.

--Gryphe 05:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, editting tables is such a bitch, no consistency between classes and finding the table isn't simple 10:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a job for a volunteer, Sharlin. If you had your choice, what class (or classes) would you like to see used as a standard for the rest?  --Eirik Ratcatcher 23:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Lets look at some samples. http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Tables:Talents:Hunter:Beast_Mastery
 * Compared to. http://www.wowwiki.com/Hunter_abilities


 * To edit the Template for the talent is a bitch of formatting. Yet the abilities table looks nearly the same and appears to be fairly simple to edit.


 * Honestly I don't really care in the long term, those pages should not change much. However there are just too many flavors of tables in this wiki and its annoying.  Too many times a new table format is done just to look cool with no regard for maintenance or use beyond that one author's excitement for the day  10:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

first kills
we have Post-expansion_guild_progression. but where is the pre expension guild progression list? 07:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Owner?
Hello! As the the headline says - who owns Wowwiki? Is there a Wowwiki fundation or is it a part of Wikipedia--Kos 12:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * See Project:About the wiki. We aren't related to wikipedia. 12:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You are owned by Wikia? But why? Kos 07:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikia is an adjective meaning "even more wiki than thou." It was coined by Jimbo and Angela when they realised the superior memetic firepower of Uncyclopedia would render itself utterly obsolete. More recently, it was used as a handy "shorthand" name for the corporation set up by the aforementioned individuals for the purpose of destroying the internet once and for all. Under the current organization plan, the internet will cease to exist on the first Monday in October, 2008.


 * This name also nicely circumvented the "Innovator's Dilemma" by allowing the creation of a website that Jimbo could actually put an advertisement on without a Wikipedia Lynch Mob Committee forming a group to discuss meeting on the mailing list to vote on Meta in order to achieve consensus on a proposed guideline intended to facilitate the creation of a policy on forming a lynching party, or at least to agree the voting method to be used for such.


 * An older meaning of wikia is from the Hawaiian term wikia wikia, meaning "fancruft fancruft warp speed nine."


 * [edit]Controversy


 * Controversy? What controversy? There is no controversy. Everything is just fine! There's nothing to see here, folks... Please return to your homes and your families, turn on your TV's, and be sure to drink heavily. When you wank wake up in the morning, everything will be as it was... Nothing will have changed... We now return you to your regularly-scheduled wiki... From one of Wikia's sites.

Gaming.Wikia Survey
Wikia would like to ask you about what upcoming games you're most interested in!

Please take a look and vote for your favourites:
 * Which upcoming video game are you most hyped up about?
 * Which upcoming MMORPG can you not wait to get your hands on?

Thanks for your time, 16:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Prospecting page comes up blank
Whenever I try to bring up the Prospecting page, I get a blank page (no source available).

It looks like the last good version was http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Prospecting&oldid=640241

--Ccox 06:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

It works ok for me, both through the search and through typing the URL directly. (However, fatfingering on the Windows key while typing L didn't help.) --Azaram 09:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Login. The server is hiccuping. Pzychotix 09:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I originally tried it in 3 browsers on Macintosh and 2 on Windows before posting. Yep, logging in helped. But isn't the site kind of useless if everyone has to have an account and log in to see the pages? (in other words: someone needs to spend some time figuring it out and fixing the server) --Ccox

Same thing here. I was already logged in when I posted earlier, apparently; I just tried it now before logging in, and got the blank page, then read this and logged in and it worked. (pats server on back to burp it) --Azaram 00:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I am having this same problem with mage skill pages, such as Frostbolt and Arcane Power. Logging in is a workaround to this issue. --Maceman 22:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Unwanted gold emails
I joined WoWWiki recently. I filled in the My Preferences page and thought hey, this is great! Within 12 hours I got my first free gold email. I looked in My Preferences and near the bottom it said something about "Enable e-mail from other users". I didn't see a box for this and if I had, I would have unmarked it IMMEDIATELY! Where do I find it, I can't seem to. I hate those gold spams ingame and I surely don't want them out of game! -- June 12
 * I don't believe that feature is enabled on the server. I have been here forever and never recieved any emails other than for watched pages. -- 21:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Same here, I've never gotten any email other than stuff I watched...--Azaram 00:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Only options I see are:
 * E-mail me when a page I'm watching is changed
 * E-mail me when my user talk page is changed
 * E-mail me also for minor edits of pages
 * Send me copies of emails I send to other users
 * I've never once gotten an email on the address I used here (temporary forwarding addresses FTW!) except the user talk page changed ones.  03:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Sugesstion Portal
I've done some limited work on my Paladin suggestions page and a tiny amount on an AV one, since I first mentioned it largely because of lack of internet access, but I'd like some feedback; first is there much interest in a proper portal, and also I'd like some advice on how best to organise my page(the headings are kind of hard to pin down).--Talgar 04:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Just getting started
Hey all,

I am really new to wiki in generally and definitely new to WoWWiki. I made an account and tried to create a page for my guild. I copied and pasted from another guilds page so everyone on our server would have similarly formatted pages. When I am logged in, I can see the page and click through to it, but when other people try to view it (or me when I am logged out) all they see is a blank white page. I have read all the information about editing pages and what not, but I can't seem to find an answer to my issue anywhere.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Server:Kargath_US

That is a link to the server page. The guild page I am talking about is for Radiant Faction. Or:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild:Radiant_Faction_%28Kargath_US%29

This might not be the appropriate place to ask things like this, but I don't really see anywhere else.

--Flinorah 13:26, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The server is having issues, so some pages may require you to log in to see. —Pzychotix (talk &middot; contr) 13:45, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Quality or Loot?
I can't find any information on when {quality} and {loot} should be used. Example: or. Take a look at the Ashbringer page, there have been edits back and forth as to which one should be used. -- 21:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * quality was designed for item tooltips only really, but has been used a great deal when refering to the quality itself: . Think of loot this way: "If I were in game and talking about this item, would I shift click to link it?"  If so, use loot  00:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've actually gone through and replaced quality with loot on a couple of pages for one very important reason -- it provides a link which to the item's tooltip even if that tooltip isn't in WoWWiki, e.g. . The square brackets also clearly call it out as an item and the extra links make it easy to tell at a glance which items don't have wiki pages and are therefore candidates for creation.   18:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Hunter Tactics Page
I really "REALLY" do not like the tactics presented. Anyone playing a hunter actually use traps and such as they are presented? I don't know of any hunters who use traps except in special cases. I don't want to rip that page to pieces yet but I am leaning towards removing the focus from traps that it currently has. -- 09:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The importance of traps is really a matter of context and playing style. In arenas, traps are one of a hunter's biggest assets to the team and I use them nearly every time they are up. In other areas like raiding, 5 mans, and soloing, traps are mostly a player/group strategic decision. Some people don't use them much while others use them constantly. Ravas 16:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * As a hunter with 240 days played, I never use traps when solo-farming unless I get an add or know I will get an add. In these situations, I'll use a Freezing Trap. From my experiences of watching other hunters solo-farm, I see the very same thing: traps are just not used often in solo-play. I have read the tactics page and was surprised to see the suggestion of using traps and pulling with Aimed Shot. Even before the changes to Aimed Shot in Patch 2.0, I didn't find it a good idea to pull with it unless I'm fighting a caster or I needed to kill one of multiple mobs ASAP. Ideally, a hunter shouldn't even allow the mob a chance to get close enough to set off the trap. I also doubt a hunter would run up to the mob just out of aggro range, drop a trap, back away, attack, let the mob run into the trap, and then send in the pet in to tank. The time it takes to do that would not be made up by the miniscule DOT a fire-based trap would inflict. Note that I'm talking from a solo-farm perspective; crowd control in 5 mans can be critical and a hunter should use Freezing Trap if necessary. ^_^ DaAznSaN 18:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Be bold! Go ahead and edit. If someone disagrees with you (unlikely, it seems), there's always the hunter tactics talk page. -- Mikk (T) 20:58, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Everyone knows hunters are needed for raids for their diverse trapping skills, not their ranged damage...  21:26, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually Tekkub hunters are needed for both DPS and CC. As for diverse traps, yeah its called Freezing Traps.  Lay any other trap and you go home, real diverse. My DPS has been greatly appreciated; beast master build.  Using traps and even the pet allows for great threat management.  Fortunately if I pull aggro I can take more of a beating than any clothie.
 * Oh, I have started edits on the Hunter's Tactic page 10:01, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you're forgetting about snake traps, which are incredibly useful on certain fights. Tyka 10:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Useless versus the majority of bosses, great way to get kicked if your snake trap decides to attack someone else's COC'd mob. Its not on my instance/raid bar.  11:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That bit by Tekkub had to be sarcasm, I'm thinking. Although maybe my plain text sarcasm detector is off.  It would help me greatly if every one would end sarcastic statements with exclamation marks mixed in with ones.  ("everyone knows hunters r needed 4 teh traps!!!11!11!")Emit 18:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well the majority of hunters in the game use traps mainly for PVP/BG Uses or perhaps duels. I would not see how you would use traps in everyday PvE, but in 5man Dungeons they could be somewhat essential. 07:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

WoW-only Lore Banner
I was looking around the site, and I found WoW on the Invading Anguisher page. Is this going to be done on other pages that have lore that are is only found in WoW? --Saimdusan 00:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No. Baggins is a silly, silly man. If we started doing that, almost every page would need it. It's supposed to be used for lore stuff that has only occured in WoW, like Nefarion's death, or other NPC's death. --Mikaka 00:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Not nesseserily, the majority of WoW things have appeared in Wc3, novels, manga or the RPGs. Saimdusan 06:06, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * If they're in multiple sources, they don't need a banner. The WoW banner was created to balance out the fact that we have RPG, novel, manga, and even Warcraft 3 banners. Obviously, if we put it on every page, it would be absurd, so it only goes on major-lore pertinent stuff. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 11:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Timmy!
Template:Timmies <= done this a couple of minutes ago. How about adding it to the pages mentioned in this template?-- K )  (talk) 14:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Great article on gold farming and such in MMORPGs
Life of the Gold Farmer Amazing is the part about them forming a RAID guild and doing well. -- 11:13, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

hyjal
messy. messy. Battle_for_Mount_Hyjal, Battle_of_Mount_Hyjal, The Battle of Mount Hyjal (History of Warcraft), The Battle of Mount Hyjal, Hyjal. some cleanup is in order here.. but not sure where to start 12:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Do not forget Hyjal Summit!-- 20:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * "For Mt. Hyjal" is the instance, apparently (change to "Battle of Mount Hyjal (tactics)?); Battle of is the Lore page, the history of Warcraft page is source text, and Hyjal is the zone page. That's not messy, that just bad naming. Not one of those pages can be merged. "Hyjal Summit" redirects to the instance. The only cleanup we need is for Mount Hyjal to be a lore page instead of a redirect. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * For me, name changes, disambiguation, and cross links ("were you looking for...") ARE cleanup.

--Eirik Ratcatcher 19:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

WTF?
Ghostlandian... ...huh? -- 20:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Server subpage or Gryf will delete.-- 20:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Patch 2.1.2 is Now Live
Exactly as the headline subject says, Patch 2.1.2 is now live. Will one of the higher-ups please fix the front page accordingly? Thank you. :x ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 22:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Raid Boss subpages
What category should pages like Kel'Thuzad/Loot or Lady Vashj/Quotes be under? -- 15:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Jewelcrafting quests
Hi, me again. How can I get the Jewelcrafting quests page to show up on that header template for Jewelcrafting? There aren't any quests yet, but we do have a page for it. -- 15:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I really don't see a reason to. Mouse over 'Quests' and you see "Currently, there are no Jewelcrafting quests available." the page you linked says "There are no known Jewelcrafting quests at this time." To be honest, that page should be deleted in my opinion.  17:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Pcj 20:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Wowhead
Yes. We know. Go here Talk:Wowhead. 05:54, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

What is Ace
- a little something I wrote for the Ace wiki to dispel some myths. :) 06:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I am a big fan of ACE2. I have a large number of the Fubar extensions installed and cannot imagine playing the game without them 12:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Please don't call it "ACE", ckknight will strangle you :) It's "Ace". 14:01, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Category:Confused
I don't know whether to put new creatures into the category:mob or category:creatures or start a new category for their zone. The mobs in question are the trash inside of Tempest Keep; such as Astromancer. --Ithar 23:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Put them in Mobs. Creatures is for different species, not differently non-unique named enemies.-- 14:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

GeeVee coming monday
Based on the largely positive feedback about putting the ad in the featured box, we went ahead and signed the geevee deal to advertise their site for 30 days with the ad I mentioned. Expect the ad we talked about here http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump/Archive14#GeeVee to replace the featured article section JUST on the home page for 30 days. Thanks again for the patience and support on this. Please let me know if you have any consensus on what to do with the freebie money we have now for a user contest.

--Penchina 14:36, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Freebie money? Hrm....  Honestly you know what would be cool?  Buy a batch of WoW game cards and "raffle" them off to contributors.  I can't think of a better way to encourage good editors to edit more than to give them free WoW time.   16:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not all contributors play anymore. ;). Nor are they all 18, which was my biggest issue with the last one (I do understand why though). --Sky (t · c · w) 19:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The ad is now up. I'd appreciate any feedback. Angela (from Wikia). 21:47, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Totally useless placement. At 1024x768 I do not see it when the site loads.  I will check 1600x1200 but right now I don't see why they would be happy.  Actually for better use of the site I think we need to put the WikiNews/WikiSponsor section on top of the selected article index.  Why?  Because the selected article index never changes.  As it stands now I bet most visitors to the site never see the news.  We could also have a mini-banner to the selected article of the week there as well  [My Main Page] 10:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I also don't think the ad placement is good. It should be far more at the top, like this experiment in the Sandbox. Though, I like Sharlin's main page design best so far, it integrates the ad far better than my draft :)
 * 12:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's up to the community here if you want to move it up though I like Sharlin's new design a lot. Angela (from Wikia). 22:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

displays
--Gaskell 15:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Is there a progaram that I can get and make my own wow character just for display


 * Check out http://www.wowmodelviewer.org. It should have what you are looking for. - ClydeJr  -  talk  -  contrib  16:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Also check out WowEquip. It may be something close to what you are looking for. -- Cisox (talk - contrib) 02:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Item Tooltip w/ Sets
Feedback requested Tooltip/Item Sets Integration -- 20:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)