Talk:Karazhan (raid)

First Clear
Which guild completed Karazhan first? This page claims it was Death and Taxes, Bosskillers claim it was Nihilum. Until this has been resolved I removed the note about first guild to clear. --Ballistae 13:25, 31 March 2007 (EDT)


 * Why even include such information? Does anyone not from the respective guilds even care? Stillfresh 12:10, 2 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Nope. --Azaram 09:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It was cleared the first time by Death and Taxes, newspost at http://www.dtguilds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5739, on 1/28/07. Nihilum cleared it a week later.


 * Karazhan is commonly referred to the UBRS of TBC. I don't see why posting who cleared the instance first is relevant. Xer01 10:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

the fact YOU don't care doesn't make it irrilevant, so just stfu and try to understand that an encyclopedia is different from your scrapbook. Lo&#39;oris (talk)


 * Well if you are talking about the first clear as in Killing Prince Malchezaar it was guild Heroic at Neptulon EU lead by Suny and Sema that killed the last boss set by Blizzard. http://i.imgur.com/lK7F2JY.jpg Here is the proof. Bosskillers also had Heroic as the first Guild while it was still there.

Instance Map
-Mottie- Here is my version of the instance map - yeah, it was inspired by Dragofix :P KarazhanInstanceMap2.jpg

-Dragofix- Here is a map for Karazhan, Got bored due maintenance :p KarazhanInstanceMap1.jpg

-Dragofix- (25.10.2008) Updated map links. If any of the map url's is not working, try my link page for new url's 

This instance is gonna kick booty.
 * --OwlBoy 16:40, 16 Dec 2005 (EST)

Player Level intended is 63 iirc CJ 05:53, 20 Dec 2005 (EST) A magazine article states "max-level", but it's unclear if they mean 60 or 70. As it is rumored that Karazhan will contain clues and items for opening the Dark Portal, it seems likely that they mean 60. At the official preview it says 10-man level 70 instance "Forge a group of ten stalwart adventurers and journey to the wasted land between Duskwood and the Swamp of Sorrows       known as Deadwind Pass, where the mystical tower lies. Only the strongest need apply: only those who have achieved      level 70 are skilled enough to face what lies within. " Sanderu 01 Feb 2006 (EST)

The article says the tower will have a Flight Path at its top...where did this information come from, and what would the point of such a FP be, anyway?
 * If you read the 3rd WoW Book The Last Guardian, Medivh had Gryphons on the top of his tower, so he could easily travel to Stormwind, etc. However, it's unknown if there will be a Horde flight path from perhaps the Undercity, or if it will just be Alliance only. The only purpose I see it for is for lore reasons, and perhaps to get to the instance quickly.
 * --Valkors 00:45, 18 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Also, the tower is going to be quite huge. A flight path at the top would allow players to go around the ascent.  Remember that the tower has a mirror image beneath it, so the top of the tower isn't necessarily the goal.  --Adonzo 00:57, 18 April 2006 (EDT)
 * I am curious however, is this the SAME tower from the 3rd books? After reading Medivh's profile, there was VERY little information regarding the books. Also, the tower was said to be somewhere in Redridge Mountains, but now it's in Deadwind Pass? It seems out of place to a degree, also it says, in Medivh's description, that he MOVED to the Tower of Karazhan, I'm confused, is this a retcon?
 * From what I understand, the Redridge Mountain range is quite huge, comprising much more than just the zone. Much of it was blasted apart when Ragnaros was summoned (creating the Searing Gorge and the Burning Steppes).  I imagine that Deadwind Pass is also part of the range.  It wasn't until Khadgar killed Medivh that Deadwind and neighboring Duskwood fell under their current curse.  --Adonzo 01:10, 18 April 2006 (EDT)

Is there a citation for the note in the article "Final Boss: Prince Malchazzar"? I haven't seen this anywhere. --Zephead 07:41, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
 * This is news to me too. A source would be much appreciated. --Mikaka 13:46, 13 November 2006 (EST)

The article states that there will be 10 bosses in Karazhan. What is this information based on? Especially it contradicts to Tigole's quote: "There are at least a dozen bosses in there so far". --Ymihere 08:59, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

Beta is released but people still won't give out information regarding this place, nor Prince Malchezaar. if you DO find anything, publish it please.

I'm confused. I'm not a TBC Beta tester so.... how can Kharazan be soo big ? From outside is preety small wtf, or there are underground caves? i'm confused so pls explain me... :/ --Nexxius 16:13, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Its a world scale issue, nothing in the overworld is to a realistic scale of the actual world due to limitations of computers. Overworld only respresents the locations of the actual world. This scale issue probably does not affect individual dungeons however, so those are probably pretty close to scaleBaggins 16:49, 21 November 2006 (EST)

I see.... thx, sounds more relative now, world scale issue and i heard a major part of the instance is in Twisting Nether.. Great --Nexxius 07:45, 22 November 2006 (EST)

The tower is unique in that it does not obey the lwas of space & time like th rest of the world (i think). The tower is said to be shaped as an hourglass, with the bottom half being a mirrored version of the top, decending deep underground. The top half is filled with ghosts and hte lower half filled with demons and eperiments (from what i can remember). Yet from what has been released about he beta.. there is no mention of the lower half of kharazan. I really hope this is added in at some point. At the moment kharazan does sound big.. maybe my expectations are too high, it just doesnt seem as big as it should..

Request trash mob information. I'll do what I can as I'm currently running this instance for the first time. --Lukian 23:58, 11 Feb 2007 (AEST)

Couple things:
I've seen this switch around a couple times, but Nightbane is technically the final boss, not Prince Malchezar. Thought y'all would like to know that.

Also, that "Rough Sketch" of the order of fights has a few flaws on it. Is it possible to get a more updated version. (curse ye, beta invites!)

Oh and if you're looking for beta information, I've had my fill straight from the horses mouth at www.beta.worldofwarcraft.com (The official forums) (Ranemoraken) 7:29 EST, Jan 2nd, 2007.
 * Please explain how it is 'technically' the last boss. Technically it would seem that the last boss is whichever one you do last. You can do Nightbane last, or you can do it immediately. The same cannot be said for Prince. The concept of him being the "last boss" was on his former superior difficulty, but he's been nerfed to hell so I don't think that really applies. Istvan of Rexxar 11:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Are players 'saved' to this instance when a boss is killed?
Yes

- AFAIK it resets every Wednesday, but when exacly? Is this different for Europe/US? Could someone please add this to the main page. Thanks, Tifi 20:31, 30 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Same time as molten core, blackwing lair, temple of AQ, etc etc. 02:58, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

encounters
the encounters table needs to be expanded to be more like Naxxramas, including trash in their respective areas near bosses. 07:36, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Tactics ??
At the bottom of the page we have a 'Tactics' category with (actually) two links to external page (a video on Worldofraid and a not finished general topic of a guild about the instance). Will not these link be in the "external link" category? and if so why does we have a "tactics" category according to the fact that boss are described in their own section?
 * Fixed -- 05:55, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Disenchanting Loot from Animal Boss
Regarding the 3 animal bosses, the main article says "Essentially they are a waste of time, but the drops can be disenchanted.". Sure enough, we went and killed Rokad the Ravager and got an epic "of the Owl". We handed it to our guild enchanter (374 skill) and they said that it came up in red text "can not be disenchanted". When they raised a GM Ticket the GM confirmed that that was the case, that these items cannot be disenchanted.

I have heard from several sources (including wowwiki) of guilds farming the animal bosses for Void Crystals. Has something changed recently? --Eltari 17:56, 4 March 2007 (EST)


 * Can be disenchanted just fine as of 1 may 2007 02:57, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Pre-requisites?
I'd really like to see a link to the keying questline on this page. I'm having a horrible time identifying which quest starts this chain, and it should logically be somewhere on this page. -- DuTempete 16:31, 26 March 2007 (EDT)
 * The Key questline can be found by following the "Key : The Master's Key" link found under General Information --Pandaut

Can anyone list the pre-requisite stats to start karazhan? like HP and Defence for tanks, +heal for healers etc? --WHZeratul 14:08, 21 July 2007 (GMT)
 * See the (currently) last paragraph. I don't think you can really judge from raw stats alone, but to repeat, I guess equipment aquired from level-70-quests and -instances, maybe even heroic ones, should be enough. PS: Defense... of course the tank should have enough to be crit immune, durr. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

Ok I am no expert but from what I have been gathering for starting my guilds runs into Kara these are some stats you may want to consider as prerequisites

Tanks - Must Have 490+ defense Should Have at least 13k Health At least 15k Armor

Healers - Must Have 1080+ Healing At least 650 int At least 25 mana per 5 seconds regen rate

DPS - Must have 145+ Dps At least 9k health

Now Like I said I have been gathering these notes from other people who have done Kara since I have not yet. I will update this with more details as My guild progress's into Kara Added by

Trash section duplicative
The Trash section is obsolete with the addition of the trash mobs under "Encounters."

I removed the link to it earlier, but it was reverted. I'm not going to remove it again, but I suggest we look at merging/deleting it. Stillfresh 10:53, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

there is no more trash section, it is just a set of links in enounters. those link to provide useful information about getting through the trash, unless there's another section on the page besides 4.1 that i'm not seeing.Reskar 10:58, 11 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Ah i see what your saying but those lists under encounters are spotty. Midnight's fight gives no info on trash up to him for instance.Reskar 11:01, 11 April 2007 (EDT)


 * There are some omissions, which I plan on working on (I'm not in this week's Karazhan raid, so later) but the current impromptu list isn't much better. Stillfresh 11:19, 11 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I'm all for removing it if we have complete lists under encounters, just think it would be silly to not link the info we have until it is all organized in the individual encounters.Reskar 11:39, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Seargeant's Gate
Where does that lead? You can find it above attumen, but I could not find the other side of it (in a cleared kara)... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * I assume this was created for a certain event which was left out or is yet to be implemented/discovered. — Nathanyel 23:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There is nothing in the room as of 2.0.10, and there hasn't been anything about it in the patch notes since. -- Sunami 3:45, 23 June 2007 (EST)

That door leads to a ghost NPC named Bennett . The door stays locked at all times
 * wow! and how did you discover that? on a private server or what? --Lo&#39;oris (talk) 10:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Servants' quarters orbit
There is a series of rooms in front of the animal minibosses that allow you to run in a circle, killing respawns. Since it is adjacent to the animal boss room (and some strategies assume you pull the boss outside his room) I was thinking killing in a circle there would be a good way to deal with the respawns. I am wondering if you have to kill off the mobs in the hound room to summon the boss, because that would put a cramp in my proposal. The one time I was in there the boss didn't spawn till we had killed every mob once (including hound area and spiders near ramp to maiden); but the plural of anecdote is not data. If anyone else is familiar with the servants' quarters could they comment on this idea with confirmation, or counterexamples? - Igoar 14:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to kill ALL mobs in the servant's quarters, plus 3-5 extra spiders that respawn, in order to summon any of the random bosses. 06:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: add recomended gear
It would seem highly useful to have reccomended stats to obtain before entering kara listed somewhere on this page, however, since I am not an expert on other class's stats, I cannot do so. - Confirmtrash
 * I'd say a general guideline would be to have equipment adequate for your talents from Level-70-instances and -quests, possibly even from heroic instances ~ Nathanyel 12:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * My guild (a dinky little guild on Tanaris) just ran it for the first time last night. I had almost all blue items, aimed directly at my role, and most of the rest of the group was equipped with decent gear, probably half of them with epics from battlegrounds. One even was completely purple (one of our tanks). Yet we still couldn't get past Midnight and Attumen. We tried six times or more. Now there's a bit of discussion in our guild as to whether or not epics are 'required' for Karazhan, and if so, where the 'ell to get them (since some of us don't want to live in a battleground for a month grinding honor). As such, I would like to repeat Confirmtrash's request for a 'Recommended Gear' section, or possibly a section on 'Preparing for Karazhan' that explores the things you "need" other than the obvious key. Moleculor 02:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a listing for reccomended gear but it was removed because someone thought it arbitrary. Since this is a big question for people starting the raiding scene, I'm putting it back in based on the fact that people can make their own conclusions, and decide if it's not worth their time, but for those who want a general idea, it's a good spot to start. Thorndjl (talk) 23:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My guess is that the section was removed due to relevance to the dungeon's lore, contents, and denizens. I'd recommend creating a new page stating what kind of gear is expected. Much like some of the Old World bosses - the lore, features, and lifestyle is kept separate from the boss's loot and tactics (usually). Since there was a prior contention with it, that would be the road I'd recommend. Any further debate on the gear would be purely on content and not it's presence on the page describing Karazhan. Curtwulf (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, I removed it because all of the numbers there are arbitrary and have no actual relevance to success of the instance. Someone basically picked numbers out of the air and posted them as if they contribute to success or failure within Badgezhan.  They do not serve a true purpose nor do they answer any real question for the "raiding scene".  It isn't a good spot to start and in the end it is an opinion of one person that typed it up and placed it in an area that it really isn't proper to place it.


 * If someone wanted to put something arbitrary and up for discussion in the talk section, that's one thing, but to place it on the main page of an instance is bad. It is basically telling every person that is new coming to learn about it someones bad opinion of what is necessary to do a very simple instance. Hoochfly (talk) 22:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think a recommended gear list would be good. Not on the main page, but good to show what someone is getting themselves into. Now that attunement is technically removed (I say technically because some guilds may still require keys), a list would be of even greater benefit to the new players wondering what kind of pain they'll be facing. If they can look at their gear and say "I'm not ready for that", it would save them a great deal of time. There are so many factors that go into success, removing the table due to arbitrary numbers seems a bit misplaced. However, I do still stand by having it listed on another page away from the lore, denizens, and geography.


 * Our guild drew up recommended stats for Tier 5 dungeons, starting with Zul'Aman. We succeed even when the raid doesn't meet the recommendations. However, it's not easy and having a raid fill more recommendations does lend to easier raids. The raiders that don't meet the stats have started working to meet them so that they can get onto raids, and has been a great help guiding them in what to work toward. That's the main reason I see no problem in posting such a table.Curtwulf (talk) 23:07, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's the problem, you're making Badgezhan out to be harder than it is. With welfare epic weapons to carry you through the instance that has been nerfed to hell from what it was it shouldn't be hard.  Just because a guild decides to pull some arbitrary requirements out the air doesn't make those requirements of gear or a stat level correct.  How is it misplaced to remove something that is not based on any fact, but on 1 person's opinion???  If you want to post something in the talk page about how much DPS someone should be able to pull, or how much TPS they need to generate, etc, that's one thing.  To pull stats out of the air and call it a guide is asinine. Hoochfly (talk) 14:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I placed it back in originally not because they're arbitrary numbers, but because they're the combined research of observations, I and a number of other theory crafters have come up with when adding up the average gear of a successful raid group just starting Kara. It is a well known fact that skill only carries you so far and that new people to it, who the stats were primarily written for have little to none of that when it comes to raiding. Thus, they need a gear cushion to make it up. It is also an average level of gear of someone who has spent a deal of time replacing greens with lvl 70 instance blues. The math behind what it takes to do the bosses has already been done several times over, so it would be redundant to post them again when if someone took the time they'd find it already complete and checked. Though I can agree that it could use it's own page, but a link from the main needs to be available and clearly labeled.Thorndjl (talk) 03:48, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well known facts? It's funny that, as a rogue, I was able to complete Badgezhan prior to it being nerfed with lesser stats than you had noted and the group having lesser stats than you had noted.  I didn't have 1500 ap and I had just over 20% crit and lacking welfare epic weapons.  There is zero math behind it.  You just pulled these numbers from out of the air.  From a DPS perspective there isn't a baseline of stats needed to do anything.  There is a baseline of DPS that you should be able to achieve, but in the case of many classes that can be made up of multiple stat makeups.  I'd love to see your "boss math".  Don't make up something about this existence of "boss math" and not show it or link it for scrutiny.
 * You first mention the numbers being developed from anecdotal, "combined research of observation", but then try to say that they came from this supposed "boss math". So, the question is, do you have this "Boss Math" that somehow shows you have a point or some basis at least for your arbitrary numbers, or was it anecdotal evidence that led you to numbers that are still arbitrary?Hoochfly (talk) 18:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hooch, look at this from the perspective of a level 70 player that just leveled up and is looking at the next step in content. You keep using the phrase "Badgezhan", that makes me think you're under the impression this dungeon is easy - it's not. The stats have to be somewhat arbitrary, there's no getting around it. Instead of removing the content entirely, try to improve a particular stat to lower the % of arbitrary impression. I recommend Rogue AP.


 * Thorn, again I recommend you place this content on a separate page. May I further recommend using your own user space so that discussions concerning viability are separate from those of the dungeon itself. Once the stats are sound, or uncontested, I see no problem in moving them here. Curtwulf (talk) 04:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Are you kidding me? It isn't easy?  It was hard when Shade could Blizzard and Flame Wreath at the same time.  It is far from hard.  You don't have to tell someone they "need" some arbitrary level of stats to be successful or clear an instance or raid.  From a Rogue DPS perspective,for example, you tell them what DPS they need to be able to achieve (700-750 DPS is more than acceptable on most boss encounters and it is actually based on something).  The reason I removed it is because it is completely opinion based and those opinions have no place on that page.  Further, those opinions aren't even a fair or accurate system of explanation in some cases.Hoochfly (talk) 18:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Patch 2.3 - Boss Loot table BoJ additions?
I know BoJ was added to the Loot stubs on a per boss level but shouldn't we mention how many badges are dropped off each boss? If so would it be better to show the info on the Karazhan page or the individual boss, and which stub would be best to put it under? Garoun 19:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Patch 2.4 - 3 day reset?
According to guild members, Kara has now changed to resetting after 3 days. Can anyone else confirm this? --Zenero 01:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Karazhan is still on a seven day (week) reset timer.

what's this for?
I was exploring the empty karazhan and on the upper level of the stables found a locked door to the Sergeant's Quarters. What's this for?

~Luv —The preceding unsigned comment was added by. ]
 * I'll have to assume the door leads to Bennett's quarters. 02:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)