Talk:Garrosh Hellscream

Clarify
Could someone clarify that last sentence: "not similar to his father from this side..." What does that mean?--Ragestorm 22:43, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


 * At the end of the article, where it says "Greatmother may be Garrosh's mother"... This is false. Greatmother is actually the Grandmother of Thrall, although it is not apparent on which side.  Chaztheweird  12:05, 23 October 2006 (CDT)


 * I think it's fairly well-established that Geyah is Garad's widow (making her Thrall's paternal grandmother). 12:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll change it in that case... I wonder how will Thrall react to knowing. And the last sentence is supposed to mean that Garrosh doesn't have a similar personality to Grom's... I'll change that as well =D --Tysar 04:25, 22 October 2006 (EDT)


 * "Orc Clan leaders are refered to as Chieftains, while the leader of all Clans is called a Warchief" Think we should change the part about Grom, since he wasn't the Warchief but the Chieftain of the Warsong Clan

"The Drained Chieftain"
Citation? we don't randomly make up titles for a sense of drama. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well he certainly does look like he's drained of all hope.At least before Thrall came to Draenor he seemed like the most incompetent leader in the history of orcs.......I like Jorin Deadeye better(Andy91)


 * Unless there is a citation, it shalt not entereth the article.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It also would make no sense in the continuity, since he isn't drained at the end of the Burning Crusade . 02:46, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No need to shout Ragestorm i didn't include it in the article....shees(Andy91)


 * I'm not shouting. Shouting is done in all caps. Italics denote an ominous tone. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:36, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Rage, I'm Italic don't exploit me, pls! :P --N&#39;Nanz 15:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. I expanded the initial section a bit, to make clearer the psychological things going on with Garrosh when we first meet him in Nagrand. It's a great storyline and I wanted to make sure people get a good sense of what's going on. --Benefice2 (talk) 17:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Change in Wrath of the lich king
How'd he go from a depressed and passive character to a brave/crazy orc whose savage tactics shock even Saurfang? Zarnks (talk) 03:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * After a long questline he finds out that his father was a hero, and since he was depressed because he thought Grom was evil and doomed the orcs that cures him. - Don Quijote (Talk) 04:45, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I just completed the Nagrand quest-line and there really is no explanation for Garrosh to be who he is in WotLK. At the end of the quests, Garrosh has got his confidence back and he's proud to be the son of Grom. Fast-foward to WotLK and he hates humans and the Alliance and is a brash and reckless leader. He's also disrectful of Thrall who might as well saved his life since it looked like Garrosh was going to /wrist when the Greatmother died. Maybe Cataclysm will have some kind event where Garrosh or somebody who knows explains why he is the way he is now. Nathanmaxtro (talk) 06:00, May 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, Garrosh has been only on the Outlands side of the Dark Portal so after the portal closed during the Beyond the Dark Portal events, he recived no word that the Horde lost and that the Alliance pretty much in-slaved his race. So when all these green skinned orcs show up and start telling him about all the crazy stuff that happend between the 2nd and 3rd war along with the WoW events, he gets pissed at the Alliance. Pretty understandable, right? Gorlack2231 (talk) 02:50, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Future Warcheif
yep, he most likely will be the future Warcheif, provided Blizzard makes a big battle in Northrend that Garrosh leades the Horde and is a hero, but doesnt die like his father!--Sig:User: Maelstrong 17:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC) Oh that could be a good poll, who do u think will be the future Warchief.


 * Blizzard hasn't shown any sign of killing off Thrall yet, and he clearly has a large role to play in the events in Northrend.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I know i'm just saying that Garrosh Hellscream can defeat THrall in a Duel showing that Garrosh could kill Thrall and assume postion as Warchief, but this is only likely if the new horde has the same politics of choosing a Warchief as the Old Horde.--Sig:[[Image:IconSmall_DragonBlue.gif]]User: Maelstrong 18:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Can we at the least put it down as Speculation?--Sig:[[Image:IconSmall_DragonBlue.gif]]User: Maelstrong 18:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd rather not, in this case. Speculation should be well-supported and have a purpose (this one is well-supported to an extent, but is not that purposeful given that Thrall's death isn't imminent), and should preferably not need to take up more than a few lines. We're still in the midst of an extreme speculation cutback.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 18:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok well while were still fresh on this topic, i'd like to make a Fanfiction page, how do i do that?--Sig:[[Image:IconSmall_DragonBlue.gif]]User: Maelstrong 19:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Just put it under your user page, like, WWW.WoWWiki.com/User:Maelstrong/How Garrosh Became Warchief, or something like that. Or go to the Warcraft Fanon Wiki (Warcraftfanon.wikia.com). [[Image:INV Misc Orb 04.png|20px]] Xavius, the Satyr Lord  19:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to throw in my two cents, but I don't think that just because someone can kill Thrall, that means that they're fit to be Warchief (or will become Warchief at all, for that matter).


 * I mean, all the orcs, tauren, and trolls would probably go ballistic over Garrosh killing Thrall. They'd most likely just hang Garrosh for treason, rather then letting him be Warchief. After all, the Horde isn't nearly as barbaric as it was during the First and Second Wars.


 * Not to mention, anyone who becomes a big leader needs good leadership skills. Garrosh doesn't necessarily have good leadership skills, as the first time he was the leader (when he was chieftan of the Mag'har), he pretty much flunked his duties in favor of just sitting around all day being emo, and the second time (leading the Warsong Offensive), he's a bloodthirsty berserker who cares for nothing but battle.


 * Like I said, just my two cents. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 04:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * New information came out involving Cataclysm. Blizzard has stated that Garrosh is now the new Warchief, has redesigned Orgrimmar, and has kicked the Trolls out(of at least the city.) saying that only Orcs and Tauren are strong enough to defend it. Rallas (talk) 00:06, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm seeing a issue with this information we are getting. Looking at the videos of the Beta I am seeing not only Trolls( With new buildings of Troll design) In Orgrimmar, but they also have Goblins and their machines in their too. It seems that the report we got is false since it is doing the exact opposite of what we are informed. Also I am not finding any solid evidence that Hellscream is the new leader of the horde. We have one, ONE, report from a third party magazine and even they made it seem more rumor mill. Unless there is solid proof in Beta about either Hellscream being Warcheif or him kicking out half of the horde out (Which Beta videos are showing the exact opposite.) We cannot trust on this third party source. More sources are needed for this. --Kuthalas (talk) 16:18, July 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I had the same issues...once. The first part we are unsure about though it was reported through a reputable source and that source is given so there is no issue with it in the article. While they do remain in the city they are outside of the center of the city whoch is (without spoiling too much) very clearly defined. The second part has been confimred multiple times. It is what it is. 00:21, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Thrall vs Orgim/ Thrall vs Garrosh
hey i'm bringing up the whole possiblty that Garrosh Hellscream is fitted to be warchief. I was just reading Lord of the Clans and theres a similarity to Thralls duel with Orgrim and Garrosh. Well first off Thrall lost both duels, so Garrosh actually defeated thrall pretty well. So if someone wants to add in there that those two duels are similar events then that would be awesome-- Maelstrong 02:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry but WoWwiki articles are no place to present a whole lot of theorycraft, even moreso because of how this particular subject will lead to nothing conclusive or constructive. 04:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thrall won the duel with Orgrim. And he didn't lose to Garrosh, either. Just look at the comics. They were fighting hand to hand (no shamanism) until Saurfang came in and said the Lich King was attacking, then Thrall knocked Garrosh on his ass and one-shot a necropolis.Skreeran (talk) 20:09, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's pretty clear, I think, that Blizzard is setting up a leadership conflict between Garrosh and Thrall. There is, of course, the world event that preceded the launch of Wrath, in which Thrall promises an end to his fight with Garrosh. And now we have the official Blizzard Ulduar promo video, which shows Garrosh being insubordinate (again) and insulting toward Thrall. This is conjecture, so I don't think it should be put on the main Garrosh page, but certainly as we discuss the character, these events appear to be fleshing out his story arc very clearly. What this will lead to... who knows? Garrosh is a jerk, though, so I hope he eventually gets the whooping he has coming. Knowing Blizzard, he'll probably be given a chance to redeem his bloodline. ;) --Benefice2 (talk) 18:59, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Lot's of Thrall vs. Grom conflict implications are in the trailer to Patch 3.1, and it looks like Garrosh is becoming increasingly arrogant and untrustworthy. Eman91 16:41, 19 April 2009 (UTC)Eman91

some new pics
someone wanna add these new pics to the page? I would but.... it would look bad lol!--Maelstrong 14:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Warchief of the Horde
I'd like to see another source for this information (as it was first datamined). I don't believe a wow.com link is enough.

14:22, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * WoW.com doesn't say he is WarChief of the Horde, and neither does the article. WoW.com is posting information from a PC Gamer UK preview.
 * From the WoW.com article: "PC Gamer UK was lucky enough to get the chance to grill Blizzard about the upcoming Cataclsym expansion, and they came away with quite a bit of new information, which is available in their latest issue, as well as as in the PC Gamer Podcast." --WarlockSoL (talk) 14:24, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fact is that those info were datamined the first time, and then spread on all WoW websites.
 * So PC Gamer UK claiming they have this "exclusive info" from Blizz is not really good to me.
 * So I'm still waiting to know (an admin around here?) if a wow.com link is enough to post such statements. (but yes they are true, I read datamining too)
 * 14:30, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * ??? What? Datamined?  Umm, no, it wasn't.  PC Gamer UK took a trip to Blizzard Headquarters for an exclusive preview.  It's their cover story.  It's not datamined info... --WarlockSoL (talk) 14:40, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is one piece of the information that PC Gamer UK got. See Kirkburn's full report here. -- 14:46, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok ok. Sorry for my precautions!
 * 14:51, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Uh, distrustful A'noob. You should download PC Gamer podcast, it's nice, and thenm you'd see by yourself this is 100% official.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:06, October 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * The discussion continues at Forum:Cataclysm.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  07:43, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

I've been gone along time, i dont care if you delete my account but i'd like to say this..... I TOLD YOU HE WOULD BECOME WARCHIEF!!!!!!!!!!--Maelstrong 23:53, October 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this helpful contribution.[[Image:IconSmall BloodElf Male.gif]] AMBER (RΘCK)  00:55, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

jez, your so worked up on the whole catacylsm business that you havent even added patch 3.2 data... well i already took care of that, except someone needs to add quotes from the Trail of the Champion and Trail of the Crusader--Maelstrong 15:21, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Beyond the Dark Portal
shouldnt the stuff from BtDP be added? Like how Karagath Bladefist visited Garad and insulted Garrosh, that would expand Garroshs character--Maelstrong 15:29, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * The hordes of wowwiki editing slaves are currently out to lunch. Maybe you should add it? 16:40, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

i'm working on it, i'm trying to find/get a good summary from forums.--Maelstrong 16:42, October 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, yea just saw your edits. Sorry bout that, I just start seeing red when i think someones upset the wiki isn't up to date not realizing theres no magical program that scans World of Warcraft websites, books, etc... and automaticly updates the articles. 16:47, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

no problem, i'll have the info updated onto the article when i get it.--Maelstrong 16:56, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ulduar
When he got into a fight with Varian, what did Thrall do afterwards? Theoretically, he could have stayed as Jaina and, I think, Rhonin would have welcomed the allies. But I suppose leaving Garrosh to his own devices could have caused trouble. BobNamataki (talk) 11:11, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * When Thrall proclaims "You disappoint me, Garrosh", Garrosh is already on his way out of the Citadel. In the next shot, the Citadel is shown to be empty besides the presence of Jaina and Rhonin. Everyone else has gone. [[Image:IconSmall Amberrock.png]] AMBER (ЯΘ&#60;K)  11:37, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Plus you would have the Warchief of the Horde and Jaina....not Warchief and King. In order for them to form a coalition force, Rhonin needs both the leader of the Horde and the Alliance. Gorlack2231 (talk) 02:31, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Leader of the Horde
While it appears he will in fact take up the title, he is not leader of the Horde yet, therefore, I don't think the infobox at the bottom of the page should say he is, especially since it doesn't say he is in his infobox. My understanding is that those boxes are used to show positions they've held both past and present, not future. Based on some of the other stuff, it looks like he may take over whenever Thrall gets captured by the Alliance (Goblin starting zone stuff), and since that hasn't happened yet, I don't think we can give him the title. Therefore, I don't think this box should reflect the change until it happens in-universe (comics/game/book). Same with Thrall's page (as it lists Garrosh as the "succeeded by"). Just my opinion. Vund223 (talk) 16:33, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Garrosh actually becomes the new warchief when thrall resigns to become leader (or important memeber of the order of tirisfal) He is asked by Malfurion stormrage, but actually Orgrimmar is destroyed and it's either being rebuilt or a new orc city is built over the course of the expansion.. Garrosh boots everyone but orcs and tauren out of central "Orgrimmar/new orc city" but yeah he probably makes Trolls, Blood elves, Undead, Goblins pretty mad. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Says who?-- 21:10, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Says the pre-Blizzcon rumors which have so far turned out to be grains of truth concealed within layers and layers of falsities. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:16, January 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, actually Medivh's son Med'an is currently the Guardian of Tirisfal, and Rhegar Earthfury is the Shaman representative on the Council of Tirisfal in place of Thrall (who Jaina asked to join). It's been confirmed Thrall will appear on the Lost Isles during the Goblin intro quests in some form of prison.  Based on that, it looks like the Alliance will somehow capture Thrall, and Garrosh will take over in his absence.  And Malfurion Stormrage has no power over the Council, and will actually be returning to protect the remains of Nordrassil from a reborn Ragnaros. Vund223 (talk) 21:21, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * We also know that Orgrimmar doesn't get destroyed and rebuilt, just "upgraded" to match the black iron theme of the Horde's buildings in Northrend. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:41, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, just what we need. Hellfire Citadel in Orgrimmar. Ohten (talk) 21:38, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

My friend's friend, who works for Blizzard told him this and he told me... Apparently Blizzard changed or edited it because Orgrimmar does get destroyed... with most of Durotar.. by volcanoes Tsunamis or some sort.... Read up before you call it a "rumor" unless blizzard decided to lie :)
 * Given that nothing official has been posted on this matter, yes, it's a rumor. And given that there's no way for us to prove that your friend's friend works for Blizzard (and, likely, your friend hasn't proven this to you, either), that's not exactly a credible source. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:24, January 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes well actually it does say DUROTAR IS RAVAGED...
 * So's the rest of the world. And "Durotar is ravaged" is a far cry from "Orgrimmar gets destroyed." Unless you can find an OFFICIAL source for this information, please stop spreading rumors. Also, please sign your posts on talk pages by typing ~ four times. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:07, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

If Garrosh really does become the leader of the Horde in Cataclysm, I hope it means Thrall and Varian shake hands, sign a cease fire and proceed to kill him. I think it would make a neat raid. Tanooki1432 (talk) 04:22, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Forsaking my usual "this is not a forum" response, I shall instead /agree. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 22:49, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't believe I'm actually reading Ragestorm saying yes to a forum discussion
 * 08:08, March 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, I have a feeling that Garrosh will become a major raid in the future where you help the horde and thrall retake Orgrimmar from him. Varrock Saurfang will probably be the one to lead the attack since he stated that he wold kill him should garrosh ever start to lead the horde down its old war paths again.  I in truth really really want to kill Garrosh since the guy is a bloody git.  Dragoon13570 (talk) 16:52, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do you guys think Garrosh will be evil? Because he's aggressive? He's the son of Grom Hellscream. Plus I really doubt that Varian will get anywhere near an member of the Horde without his sword in hand. Saurfang just doesn't want the Horde to be chucking babies off of the tallest towers...like in Shatrath. Also, if you read the converstation between Garrosh and Krom'gar in Stonetalon, you'll see how great of a leader Garrosh has become. LOK'TAR OGAR! FOR THE HORDE! Gorlack2231 (talk) 02:40, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Action Figure / New Design
At Toy Fair, a new action figure of Garrosh was unveiled. It was revealed along with a few other new figures, including a goblin, a worgen, and Thrall stepping on a dragon's skull in a victory pose.

Anyway, the new design is light-brown skinned Mag'har with black tattoos on his chest, back, and arms, and what appears to be a black tattoo on his lower jaw (just like Grom). He's also weilding Gorehowl and is wearing a pit lord's skull and tusks as armor, bound together by rope and spiked chains. Additional pictures:  WoWWiki-Suzaku (talk) 09:47, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * His eyes look red, and he somewhat resembles Grom when he succumbed to the Blood Curse in WC3. Wonder if that's a sign?  It says the figure's coming out in October, which (assuming it comes out this year) would probably be around Cataclysm time.  Interesting. Vund223 (talk) 16:21, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Garrosh and Gorehowl?
This is a quick question, but does Garrosh know that his father's axe is out there? It would seem like he does not, but I belive that Blizzard should start a quest chain (perhaps) for players to go into Karazhan and obtain Gorehowl for Garrosh. Please leave comments on whether he know of it or your oppions on Garrosh obtaining his father's war axe.
 * The upcoming Garrosh action figure is holding Gorehowl, so they may just handwave away the loot item. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:11, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Malchezzar was carrying a replica he ordered while shopping in Kezan. --Super Bhaal (talk) 19:13, May 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * 'Course he was, everyone knows the Goblins are able to make replicas of any weapon, I was on a shopping trip and bought Frostmourne lately... Those souls are moaning constantly... --Meltheon (talk) 21:13, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Demons returning.
I was looking at Garrosh's new model in the Cata beta, and his eyes have changed from brown to fiery red. since Grom drank Mannoroths blood, and most likely Grom's wife did as well, could there be a chance that Garrosh obtained the blood curse from his parents? It doesn't seem like the Mag'har orcs, while still brown, are totally unaffected by it, during one of the quest he gives while he is still in Outlands, Saurfang the Younger expirences blood curse symptoms, rage, fiery eyes and bloodlust. What you guys think? Return of the Blood Curse part III? Gorlack2231 (talk) 19:24, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dranosh Saurfang was never exposed to fel magic in Nagrand, the red eyes just depict the natural orc lust for battle. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 21:51, July 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wonder if all the brown skinned orcs will receive a similar look. 23:03, July 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nah unlikely, Mag'har are still orcs, but Garrosh is an important story figure and soon of boss status (if provisional) so he got a more detailed model. Still waiting for the Thrall one, though :/ ~ Nathanyel (talk) 05:48, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

I noticed something.
Is Garrosh like a shade of red in the comics and was that a mistake by the artist or am I mistaken. Do you think Garrosh will try to invade Theramoore? Rimor Conscientia (talk) 15:45, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Garrosh_comic.jpg Nope. Red-brown, but more brown than red - and after all, a comic is a comic, it has exaggerated colors. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 16:01, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Why does Garrosh new model look like a monster? I liked his old model. Is Blizz intentionally making him look like a monster? Rimor Conscientia (talk) 19:24, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Blizz wants to bring back the older feel of the Orcs. And since Garrosh is a Hellscream and (?)Warchief of both the Warsong and the Horde, he's going to be on the front lines, and to enhance the shock value of him, Blizz decided to make him look like a real Orc and less like a regular Mag'har NPC model. I think they are taking his look from the comics as well. Gorlack2231 (talk) 19:29, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Personality change?.
I keep hearing words of Garrosh getting a personality change in cata, not so much from going a hard ass to somone picking flowers,  him jsut being a lot less thick skulled of sorts, anyone able to confirm this or is he staying the same? you can find chats between him and Vol'jin/Sylvanas will show he still is an ass hehe


 * Actually the chat between Garrosh and Sylvanas does show a positive change in Garrosh's character(read the conversation on the Val'kyr page). Granted the chat between him and Vol'jin does show him in a negative light. It almost as if Blizzard doesn't know how to handle Garrosh. --Sairez (talk) 10:46, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The conversation with Vol'jin likely is rather early after Thrall left him in charge, while the major event that marks his change of stance occurs afterwards. Didn't want to put what I heard in rumors directly on this page, so here's a spoiler link. After that, he seems to remember what Saurfang told him in Warsong Hold and Icecrown Citadel, and even quotes him in Stonetalon. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 14:40, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting Conversation in stonetalon,bad-ass with a large side of honor, is that stripping of rank removing just what was in Krom'gar's army or is it stripping everything you gained through out your whole toon's (life) Omians
 * Just in Krom'gar's army. Not that ranks really apply in WoW anymore, since you seem to get reset after every BG and Honor points dont get you ranks. Gorlack2231 (talk) 19:34, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * In that Krom'gar thing, who is the old hero that Garrosh mentions? Saurfang? Tanooki1432 (talk) 23:20, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honor, young heroes... no matter how dire the battle... Never forsake it! --Sheffi (talk) 12:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Warchief of the Horde (again)
We know Garrosh is the new Warchief, but I don't think it should be listed as his "present position" yet. It hasn't happened "in-universe" (Beta doesn't count, as what's going on in Beta technically hasn't happened in the Warcraft universe yet). It looks a little odd that in the text, it states things like "Garrosh will become Warchief of the Horde" yet his info boxes show him as the current Warchief. My point is, in the current Warcraft Universe (in other words, patch 3.3.5), Thrall is still Warchief, and Garrosh has yet to hold the position, so we can't yet say that he was once "Warchief of the Horde" because, as of now, he never has been. Same with Thrall, we can't say he was Warchief, then Garrosh, then him again because that hasn't happened yet. Until it happens in Patch 3.3.whatever or 4.0 (live version, not Beta), he should never be listed as Warchief of the Horde. I know the boxes on Thrall's page at least have the Cataclysm flag, but, as I said a few posts up a few months ago, it was always my impression that those boxes only reflected past and current events, not future. Vund223 (talk) 16:55, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Garrosh Hellscream's New Model
Holy crap! Wow! What did Garrosh do? Take steroids?!
 * No Blizz finally decided to give him his own model instead of just using a Mag'Har Orc model.Gorlack2231 (talk) 05:43, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Shoulder Armour
You've got it written down that the shoulderpads that Garrosh's new model sports are made from the skull of Mannoroth. But isn't it already stated that Mannoroth's skull is mounted behind Garrosh's throne, in the new fortress at the center of Orgrimmar? - MyrionStarblade (talk) 00:21, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Acutally, it's just made of two long bones/tusks/horns/spikes and skulls on the side. The bones may have been taken from other parts of Mannoroth and not just his skull. As for the skulls.....well, Garrosh has a LOT of things in his days, who knows where those are from... Gorlack2231 (talk) 05:45, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Can we just stick with one photo?
It seems like for the last 24 hours...Garrosh has had his little photo thing on the right changed about 4 times. And it's all images from the comics, which i dont see how that's relevant considering we have an in-game image of him from both Wrath and Cata which are the most lore-relevant because they are current (or from the future!!) I don't like people messing with Garrosh. Him and his father are my favorite characters and he will lead the Horde to a new age of power, LOK'TAR OGAR!! Gorlack2231 (talk) 08:00, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fanboyish aside i reverted most of the changes and then updated to what I thought was the best drawing available (In game models are generaly only used as a last resort). If you can find a better piece of official art that represents him well, upload it and we'll be done with it, but otherwise I don't see why a change or two should bother you. Honestly i'm leaning towards the TCG art again, anyone else? 08:14, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Variety is the spice of life Korval (talk) 16:53, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I first thought of the TCG image to switch to, but it's far too small for the infobox and.. it's really not that great an image. Then I decided to go for one of the comic images already on the page... two of them had chat bubbles, so they were an automatic no. That left one and I placed it in there over the face shot from an in-game cinematic.... So I don't feel the image has been changed 4 times. It was vandalized, fixed, replaced, then apparently updated with a new version. 17:45, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly i'm just waiting for an official commisioned piece. With Cata and Blizzcon not too far off he's gotta pop up somewhere sooner or later. 20:49, July 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed...sticking to the comic image because its "more official" then Blizzards own renderings is like basing all of WoW off just one novel. Gorlack2231 (talk) 01:32, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's not what i'm saying (If it was i would have used the NPC) and i couldn't disagree more. 08:40, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I cropped out this image from the new Kalimdor loading screen. Considering posts about it haven't been ripped off the offical forums, I believe these weren't datamined, but here it is. Could it be used for the infobox?--TheUltimate (talk) 11:49, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it is the one to be used.
 * 13:10, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Needs to be flipped horizontally. It's pretty obvious that Garrosh and Cairne were mirrored for the sake of composition on the loading screen. Same thing happened with Arthas on the Northrend screen. WoWWiki-Suzaku (talk) 19:56, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just flipped the image... feel free to undo the edit if you don't like it. - Aedror42 (talk) 20:01, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * How is it obvious that they were mirrored? One might argue that they were mirrored in the first place. -- 21:05, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Notice how on the loading screen, all of the things are on the wrong side of his body (skull, glove, Gorehowl), compared to his in-game appearance and the official action figure. WoWWiki-Suzaku (talk) 00:49, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Wise old hero of the horde
I think the one he refers to is Varok Saurfang. Didn't link it because I'm not sure if he is.Orisai (talk) 15:43, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't that already linked? ~ Nathanyel (talk) 16:59, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The "honor, never forsake it" bit was indeed Varok Saurfang, addressing Horde players after we kill his death knight son in Icecrown Citadel. And I believe I did link it when I saw it, should be there somewheres. --Joshmaul (talk) 20:58, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

As...
As much as I look at his new model the much I can say hes beeing currupted! Does any one heard about him trying to get more power and drinking demon blood or something like that? Maybe he's currupted by being near the skull of Mannoroth? He did change the orcs with his blood--JVS (talk) 13:42, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * WTF are you talking about?Sl2059 (talk) 14:20, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fel orc--JVS (talk) 17:34, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * He isn't a Fel orc...Sl2059 (talk) 14:10, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Orcs are originally brown, "from bark-like brown to reddish-brown", the current green skin of the majority of Azeroth orcs was a result of the demonic energies they or their parents were exposed to. Garrosh might be a rather 'pale' orc, letting the reddish part stand out more, but that's about it. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 15:50, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, While he has changed significantly since Wrath, I assume this is only so he has his own model, not just a Mag'Har orc with fancy gear. I like the new model, it shows all the current orcs (green skin) what the orcs where originally, before they became the Horde, before Gul'dan and Ner'zhul and the Legion. If anything he's a giant middle finger to the orcs like the Burning Blade or other demon whorshiping clans. " Look at me! I'm incredibly ripped and a total badass, and i didn't even drink demon's blood!". Lok'Tar Ogar! P.S. Blizz, if you're reading this, give Garrosh a "Hellscream" ability since he's a leader. thanks!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by . 01:23, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Garrosh's ascension
Is it perhaps worth me sticking the Thrall/Garrosh dialogue from the PTR into the quotes section? It's a rather important and crucial event for his character, and the PTR has already shown it on loop, stopped it and relocated Thrall, so I can assume it was the final product. All hail the Sin&#39;dorei. (talk)
 * Which would mean it's been seen in-game in some fashion, like all the dialogues from Cataclysm. I say go for it. --Joshmaul (talk) 08:08, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

BC Quests?
So I've been doing some of the quests from when Garrosh was just a lowly chieftain and I noticed that the quests from Garadar point to Garrosh as the quest giver, which redirects me here which has no quests. This is for Garrosh's achievements not with him being a quest giver. Are the quests missing from here or should I be redirected to another page? -Flame484

Garrosh's New Pic
There is a discussion earlier here about what image to use and the changes made, but since it's kind of old, I decided to make a new section. I just wanted to comment on the awesomeness of the image Mordecai came up with. Getting used to the changes and updates 4.0.3a brought as well as Garrosh's appearance in-game, I'm leaning further away from my disdain I originally had with him. Great picture! 23:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Leaders of the Horde: Garrosh hellscream
Is there enough info in the story http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/features/garrosh.html#1 to throw in some edits? this was fairly interesting to read (Omians (talk) 08:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC))

Race
Garrosh is classed as a Mag'har, a statement I question. Can't the Mag'har be seen more as a clan, a faction than an actual race? I mean, the orcs were called orcs even before the demonic curruption turned their skin green, so if anything the brown orcs are the "real" orcs. My point though is that whatever the colour of the orc's skin, it's still an orc. What's your view in this matter?--Odolwa (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to be doing how we do the Forsaken... their race is really Undead and Forsaken more their group. 01:29, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to be precise, the Manual of Monsters says the the Forsaken are a subrace of undead with their own features, as does the Forsaken page in its first sentence. --  Forco   sussura agli abissi  07:54, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

How about we compromise and classify him as a "Mag'har orc"? That's how they are reffered to in-game. In the Alliance quest "Downfall" the following text segment exists: "By the time that we received word that Hellscream had sent another mag'har orc to oversee the Horde troops in southern Stonetalon, it was too late."--Odolwa (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Logical. +1
 * As done in game. +1
 * Sounds like the way to go imo. A_F_K_sig_2.jpg A F K When Needed 16:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup
Is anyone against removing the wall of quotes from the Garrosh Page in favor of a section with links to the dialogue in question? The current monstrosity of jumbled jargon is ,in my eyes at least, irreparable without much simplification. Lyvefire (talk) 09:54, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

To add to that, a section for notable quotes is quite worthless if we quote everything that comes out of his mouth. Lyvefire (talk) 09:54, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Race
I've attempted many different ways to get it so say Mag'har Orc without leading to a dead page or just messing up the entire info box in general. For now im going to classify him as an orc and if anyone can change his race correctly, much obliged MoneygruberTheGoblin (talk contribs) 04:17, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * All Mag'Har Orcs are classified as Orc, Garrosh shan't be different.  Kookamooka (talk) 22:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Dialogue from Twilight Highlands
At the end of the Dialogue section it has him saying "Yes I live! No Twilight Dragon can bring this orc down!" And then says that his ship capsizes...

But I remember him saying this after he shows up once zaela has killed Mor'ghor, not before his ship crashes, can anyone verify? Sarm3 (talk) 23:23, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

New Page Quote Suggestion
I was thinking that the page quote should be "I am the Horde's warchief, Lor'themar. And as such, I am the Horde." It just really reflects Garrosh's current state of mind. For anyone curious this quote is said on page 27 in Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War. --Sairez (talk) 02:01, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Faction post-siege?
I feel he should be labeled as neutral now. He speaks for no one but himself, his "True Horde" is completely decimated, and he's an ostracized criminal. Falsetti (talk) 15:09, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's probably just best to keep it as Horde. 20:54, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I second this suggestion — until the WoD world update, the Horde tag seems more appropriate here. It's a little weird to have all the existing mentions of him lead to an article with a neutral-tagged infobox. While that by itself isn't particularly compelling, there's also no clear Horde/Garrosh break-up in the currently-released content; up to now, he doesn't really leave the Horde to do his own thing — it's more that his actions spark a revolution that leads to him being replaced as the warchief (but not necessarily being expelled from the Horde itself — think of Thrall not wanting to give Garrosh up to the Alliance). — foxlit (talk) 21:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Page needs condensing
Garrosh's page is quite long as it is, and I assume that we'll be hearing a lot more about him in Warlords of Draenor. Cleaning up the so-called "Notable Dialogue" section would be a start. -- Alayea (talk / contrib) 22:15, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Regarding ties to Mag'har
Does he abandon that affiliation after he's booted from the Horde? Them being a faction within the Horde. You could make the argument he's aligning with untainted orcs in the next expansion, but they would only identify simply as orcs anyway. The whole alternate timeline can get rather confusing, but does anyone have any thoughts on this? OneVeryFancyElf (talk) 01:40, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

He remains off to the side for lower level characters
You sure about this? I checked the place with 16 lvl and the quest enemy below is given by Vol'jin and Garrosh is not found there. --Mordecay (talk) 11:40, 31 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what the level range/quest progression prompts him to appear, then. But he's definitely there for 85s; right after walking in and the MoP intro cutscene ends, he is standing next to Nazgrim. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 18:24, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

New Page Quote should be changed
In terms of new page quotes, I think Garrosh's previous "I answer to NO ONE" would fit better than his conversation with Grommash in alternate Draenor. The opening quote is the first thing people see on a character page, so I think it should sum up as a whole who the character became. Garrosh's actions in alternate Draenor are just what he has done recently, not who he is or became as a whole. I believe the previous quote, his last one to Taran Zhu in the Siege of Orgrimmar Trailer best sums up who he ultimately became.

I went ahead and changed it back to the quote from the 5.4 trailer, since, as you say, the quote at the beginning of the article should be something that reflects the nature of the character in question. DeludedTroll (talk) 13:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC)