Talk:Warcraft: Orcs & Humans manual

Apostrophe in title
The recent addition of an apostrophe in the article title is incorrect. If you have a Prius, you would call the owner's manual "the Prius Manual", as in "the Manual to the Prius"; you would not say "The Prius' Manual", as in "the Manual belonging to the Prius". This way you can say things like "I borrowed Brian's Warcraft Manual" and avoid the ridiculousness of "I borrowed Brian's Warcraft's Manual". Same goes for, say, the "iPod User Guide" on the Apple website - it's not "iPod's User Guide".

I would revert the move myself, but there are a lot of pages linking here. Once someone assures me I don't have to manually revert every reference, I'd be happy to do it... - jerodast (talk) 22:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it is incorrect? Since the manual belongs to the game, should it not enter the possessive? --[[File:CogHammer.gif]]D oo meЯ  T [[Image:Battlegroup_RoundIcon.png|16px]]C  18:33, 26 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply. I am pretty sure, but not 100% sure since I could not find any grammar guides specific to product manuals :) I did list several examples in my original post which I think illustrate the issue well. I also could've gone on to point out that they don't call it a "car's manual", they call it an "owner's manual". That is, the possessive applies to the owner, not the car. I have also heard the term "product manual", but not "product's manual". Do any of the examples I gave seem wrong? Again, I'm only going off the common usage based on my experience.


 * I think you're making an inaccurate assumption with your logic: The manual does not "belong to" the game. The physical manual belongs to the consumer, and the copyright to its contents belongs to Blizzard. The manual is associated and included with the game, it refers to the game, but these are not the same thing as possession, so that grammar isn't technically correct.


 * Anyway, I wasn't the one that moved the page back, so at least one other person seems to have voted for the no-apostrophe version :P - jerodast (talk) 23:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me. --[[File:CogHammer.gif]]D oo meЯ  T [[Image:Battlegroup_RoundIcon.png|16px]]C  23:53, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Difference from printed manuals?
How does this differ from the printed manuals? Should someone interested in the history of Warcraft lore track one down, or is this the same content (perhaps minus some punctuation fixes and such)? The article takes pains to mention it is a reproduction of the ONLINE manual, but it also lists no differences, which I would expect to be quite relevant to a page like this. Someone who has the original manual might want to add in a quick sentence to clarify the situation. - jerodast (talk) 22:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

implications of time of battle with dather and connection of Azeroth to Draenor
I was reviewing Sir Lothar's description of year 593 and came across something which confuses me...


 * The battle left both combatants drained, but Medivh held enough power to banish her from his sight, and command her never to return.
 * His magiks were strong enough that even she cannot break this bond, and so can offer no aid in his downfall.
 * The traveler also informs King Llane that it was Medivh who was responsible for the coming of the Orcs to Azeroth.
 * During the battle with his father, he inadvertently opened a gateway to the domain that they, and many other foul creatures, call home.
 * The Orcs are disciples of chaos, however, and not even Medivh has the power to control them.

I wasn't sure what "the battle with his father" meant... until I looked back to Lothar's account of year 571:
 * Medivh makes his way to the bedchamber of his father.
 * As the Conjurer reaches out to touch his fevered brow, a burning fire ignites in the child's eyes.
 * This backlash of power must have reached as far as Northshire Abbey, for within the hour over one hundred clerics arrived at the castle.
 * The Conjurer lay dead, drained of all life, and Medivh fell into a deep sleep
 * The Conjurer lay dead, drained of all life, and Medivh fell into a deep sleep

I guess I had only skimmed the section before, didn't actually notice that Nielas Aran was killed here or that it took him + 100 clerics (five score!) hours (possibly days) just to tire out 12-year-old Medivh (they both just collapse inexplicably).
 * At the time Llane woul've been merely 7 years old.

Based on what the traveler (Medivh's mom Aegwyn) told Llane after the nine years of raiding (ten years since the attack on Stormwind) the pinprick tiny rift to Draenor opened in year 571, which was actually twelve years prior to the attack on Stormwind keep.

It's basically 6 years after that (559>577) that 18-year-old Medivh awakes from coma (with an epic-beard) and gives 13-year-old Llane the hourglass, and 6 years after that (total twelve) when 19-year-old Llane tells his dad the hourglass ran out and Orcs attack while Medivh (now 24) isn't anywhere around.

Despite the rift being open for 6 years prior to the hourglass-gifting, odds are it was just too small for it to have an effect. It was probably not until the orcs found it and widened it that the farming/children problems happened.

The question is basically when did Medivh actually contact Gul'dan? This might've actually happened prior to him waking up and giving the hourglass, because it was MENTAL contact. Medivh never actually claims to be unconscious during the entire six years at the Abbey:
 * The years of constant tending from the clerics of Northshire Abbey enabled him to gain control over his powers.
 * When his spirit and body became attuned, he awakened himself, and set out to Stormwind Keep at once.

"He awakened himself" is a conscious effort: so he was conscious prior to actually waking up. Clearly astral-surfing the nether and torturing orc warlocks and kiljayden with dreams but for some reason not approaching Gul'dan until Gul'dan reacted to his warlocks' nightmares and investigated.

Medivh actually waking from his astral-surf slumber and bringing the hourglass to Prince Llane could probably explain the period in which Gul'dan couldn't contact him: maybe he's basically AFK from his astral computer while operating his physical body? He had to log in and check his messages to know to go give Gul'dan a response.

The point at which Mediv is promising the route to the Crypt of Sargeras is probably before giving the hourglass while still at the Abbey. Tycio (talk) 03:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)