Talk:Blood Knights

General Discussion
So Thrall and Cairne just let the Blood elves rape and torture a angelic being of divine energy! And the light can just be stolen by any common thug now huh. If they had to have blood elf paladins couldn't they have had be small sects of blood elves who still believed in the light,or had them be like the scarlet crusade

Angry ogre


 * Well, Thrall and Cairne don't consider the Light a legitimate philosophy, just like a Roman Pagan doesn't believe in the powers of the Christian god. To them, it's better than consorting with demons. Also, it's not really the "light" in the sense of the philosophy, more like holy energies, which are two different things. Just as a Troll Mage is not a practitioner of arcane magic like the rest of the mages in the game, they're actually shamanistic/voodoo practitioners whose spells are similar to those of other mages. The same can be said for Troll Priests, they don't follow the light either. I see Blood Elves as an analogue to that- they are just using similar spells. Omacron


 * Honestly I find it very hard to believe that Thrall would just let this happen. He obviously has some respect for the light and human culture. Why would he let Blood elves do horrific experiments on an angelic being. And this can' be compared to the forsaken apothecaries because thats done in secret,this is out in the open. And Thrall lets them get away with it because he wants them for military might. For god sakes Blizzard why must you continually try to make horde evil,can't horde and alliance both be equally good and equally evil like in WC3. I'm telling you next thing ya know blizzard's going to make Thrall a baby killer.


 * Angry ogre


 * The hell are you talking about? Thrall doesnt "let them" do it. he is not the leader of the horde in that sense. he is the warchief, but as you can tell by his joining with the others, he sees them as equals. He "lets them" because it is a joining force for the betterment of each race within. Not for military might. The only reason the Horde HAS a military is defense against the other forces, and as a passtime.
 * While this new lore bit is horrible, it doesnt make the blood elves any worse than they were, as the naaru arent "angelic". they are simply a powerful race, just like demons or old gods or titans. they are a means to power, which ALL races use, naaru are simply one of them. It is better than them dealing with demons, the old gods, or the scourge, however.
 * And honestly, who is to say the naaru is being "raped and tortured"? it is held prisoner, but last i checked, rape and torture and being captive are MASSIVELY different. --Haddon 00:35, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

I doubt that the Blood Elf scholars and magi are "common thugs." It says in the new lore it took months of study and research to for the Blood Elfs to learn to manipulate the naarus energies, not like they just started poking the naaru with sticks and they got super-happy-light powers. The new lore also states that Cairne and Thrall don't like the whole Blood Elf paladin things but they accept in the terms that the horde now have paladins as allies. -Karye 15:51, August 1, 2006 (PST)

Editing
I had created a Blood Knight page before I saw this one. Personally (and I know I'm biased) I like that page better. Should we combine them some how? --Horik 09:09, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

I copied it over, nice job by the way on your page. -Karye 15:51, August 1, 2006 (PST)

Untitled
Please note that talk pages should be used for discussing how to better edit the topic, not rant pages to express your views. Pzychotix 02:37, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

Raid set-up
"Some have felt that the addition of a new class will skew current raid set-ups. However, others have suggested that this can be easily readjusted to allow the addition of new classes, changing from the current "standard" of 8x5 classes to a new (9*4)+4 make up." -- this is false in either case as raid sizes will now be at most 20(25?) players.

--Pure.Wasted 20:21, 30 September 2006 (EDT)


 * It is more misleading than false. 40-man raids will still exist, but they will be relegated to the back-burner once BC comes out, if not abandoned. So, although in MC, Ony, AQ and Naxx situations this will be true, the 60+ raids are all 25 or lower. 05:13, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Racials
"There will be racials along the lines of Priest racials for every class come expansion" - Where is this info from?

--Hirurg 06:43, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-paladin/spells.html http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-shaman/spells.html

--Pure.Wasted 00:39, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

I'm sorry, those links above don't specify - the quote. "every class come expansion" - there is no official information on that - and you have to look closely at that sentence (it was enough for me to search like mad and make an account to edit this information.)

This is what I mean - "there will be racials" (as in race specific spells) "along the lines of the Priest racials" (which means class related) "for every class" (including warriors, rogues, etc)... So, will night elf warriors have a different spell than dwarf warriors? The pages linked as 'proof' do not show this.

--Solrium 2:57, 24, November 2007 (EDT)

Capital K
I think this should be with a capital letter K, as they're called Blood Knights in this article: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/burningcrusade/townhall/classcombo.html --Tinkerer 13:35, 9 October 2006 (EDT)


 * What I've seen in-game treats it as a proper noun as well.--Aeleas 01:28, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * That comment was quite outdated, and I had a dicusion about something alike (Death knights/Knights I believe), to see that is a group name as well as a "job name", thus without capitals. Thanks anyway ^^ --Tinkerer 03:23, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * It's quite possible that the two should be handled differently. Death knight is used as a standard noun, like knight or farmer. On the other hand, from what I've seen, Blood Knight is only used as a proper noun; as the name of an organization and the office held by its members.  It's like the distinction between knights and the Knights of Columbus.  Sir Lancelot is a knight, but Joe is a Knight of Columbus.--Aeleas 03:48, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * But then again, Blizzard seems to end up calling Blood K/knights the class itself (as in, not paladins) which would mean a lower case K. Ergh. This hurts my brain in the morning :p --Tinkerer 04:03, 28 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I don't think using it as a class name would mean it would be lower case, even though other classes are. It's kind of like how most race choices are lower case (human, night elf, orc), but Forsaken is upper case, since it's a particular faction of undead.--Aeleas 01:22, 29 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I consider "Blood Knight" to be more of a title than a rank. After all, they're not just simple soldiers, they're an elite order. --dourlynome 08:10, 14 November 2007 (PDT)


 * So is this "Blood Knight" or "blood knight"? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

BK's Charger
There is a legit, closed beta picture of a BK's Charger (same model, skin of Red Skeletal Warhorse) up at WoWGuru's BC Image Gallery, just fyi. AzraelOpacus 14:54, 26 October 2006 (EDT)


 * Then upload it? :) -- Kirkburn  (talk) 20:15, 26 October 2006 (EDT)


 * I definitely can't find it. I found the one where they changed their model to the charger, but not the one of the NPC riding one. :( AzraelOpacus 00:29, 29 October 2006 (EDT)


 * There is a picture of that NPC on the official site worldofwarcraft.com. SHall we use it?
 * Ooh, official pictures. Of course ^^ --Tinkerer 09:52, 29 October 2006 (EST)


 * D'oh, forgot I saw it at wow.com. X( I usually don't expect official pictures to be so yummy. >_> AzraelOpacus 23:43, 29 October 2006 (EST)

Seal of blood and Alliance.
Seal of Blood will be a Horde paladin spell, not a blood elf one. This is because the race-class spells have not been released, and the Alliance pally spell is seal of vengeance. Just like how bloodlust is a horde ability and heroism is an alliance one, well not exactly the same thing but you get what i mean. too lazy to create a small link: November 14 09:14 (UTC) --User:Jures

Well it said in the warcraft lore that at one time half-elves also known as highelves joined the blood elves in protection... well highelves had the power of being a druid. So with that being said i am sure the scourge didnt manage to kill every Blood elf Druid so.. shouldnt Druid be a playable race for the Blood Elf?.. before people say it is impossible check the lore.. many were kiled but not all so that means that a good number could be left. Just a seggestion

Point of controversy sections?
I've seen the "Controversy" sections on a few TBC articles and they seem really pointless to me. The vast majority of them rely on predictions that were made before the expansion even came out, rendering them fairly irrelevant now that the expansion IS out. These aren't documenting "controversy" (ie. two 18-year old shut-ins arguing about magical elves) so much as trying to make predictions about the game that have or haven't already come to pass. Maybe Elves unbalance the horde or make them homogenous or are too pretty or paladins shouldn't do this or that, but the expansions already out and if someone wants to find out whether blood elf paladins unbalance raids they should ask raiders, not go on what a few people said on a forum somewhere before the expansion even came out.

This defeats the purpose of wowwiki as a repository of information - it's just a heresay soapbox. Unless someone can make a compelling argument as to why they provide useful information to players, I'm going to delete all of the "controversy" section that tries to make predictions about raid composition and all that.

If someone wants to put forward FROM EXPERIENCE that paladins nullify shamans or whatever, thats fine, but we shouldn't be using untested histrionic forum predictions as a source of informations when the game is actually out.

Periodic 15:09, 2 February 2007 (EST)


 * Of all the controversy sections, I actually like this one the best. It's very journalistic, lays down the facts, doesn't make any assumptions about either side, and isn't exhaustive in its attempts to cover every possible viewpoint. It simply mentions Blizzard's intentions to quell controversy surrounding shamans and paladins, and that their method of doing so was to allow both factions access to both classes. However, I certainly agree that other articles have controversy sections that aren't properly wikified. 08:20, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * I concur. A number of the other controversy sections are essentially whining abiut things that people mildly don't like. This one just presents the issue without hints of bias. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 08:39, 16 February 2007 (EST)


 * While i agree with what the other's have said, i'll also point out everything you've complained about is exactly what is supposed to be in place. Speculations and arguments of controversy do need to be valid and justified before being documented. It is not a soapbox of course, but it is just as informative to document the issues at hand in an unbiased manner. -- Zeal  talk   contr  web 09:09, 16 February 2007 (EST)

I think you would very obviously have to play Alliance and only Alliance to say that shamans trump paladins in any PvE situation. Even living in the aftermath of BC, I would hands down take a paladin who isn't specced in Ret over any kind of shaman any day of the week -- and I know, because I've played both factions and experienced raiding and PvP on both prior to BC. They simply brought much, much more to the table. You want proof? All you need to do is head over to the Raid & Dungeon Forums. It's not rocket science why Alliance could clear BWL in blues (I was part of Denial in Demon Soul who were made up of rerolled Horde raiders, and we went from ZG to Chromaggus within 1 week of transition). The tremendous gap between shaman and paladin PvE was already acknowledged and confirmed by a Blizzard representative by a Gamestop journalist when he asked the rep about the rumor that blood elves would be able to roll paladins (And back then the idea would make you the laughing stock of the forums), and the rep simply answered, "We are well aware of the concerns between Horde and Alliance PvE".

I agree with Montag. It lays down the facts, and the facts were Alliance had a MUCH easier time raiding because the utility a paladin brought was infinitely more useful.--Zexx 06:17, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Why does Thrall let in blood knights?
Moved to Talk:Blood knight/Analysis -- 14:07, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Interresting Possibility
The Blood Knights draw their power from the captive naaru M'uru. This actually opens up the way for an interresting possible plot twist: What if M'uru were to die? We know dead naaru become masses of Shadow who trap nearby souls and turn them into voidwalkers. This may be a bad thing for Silvermoon, or perhaps the power hungry magisters will just start feeding off of those shadows. However, what will happen to the Blood Knights who draw their power from M'uru. Now, in order to completely answer this, we'd need to know exactly how the Blood Elves get Holy Power from M'uru, which quite frankly we don't. It is possible, however, that the Light that the Blood Knights wield may be transformed into Shadow, probably corrupting them further. There is currently no way to verify if this could or would happen, and Blizzard has announced no plans for M'uru's death, but it's something to think about. Meneldir

Definitly an intresting point, M'uru may die in Warcraft IV or something like that, but it can be saftly said he won't die during the events of WoW, as it would be unfair to BE pallys. Hordesupporter 23:49, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I could almost see it as an instance perhaps even in the caverns of time that is almost exactly like Silvermoon only darker and you have to go in and use Holy Power to revive him, but you're right, it's more likely to come in another game, or perhaps a novel, or, dare I say it, the movie. Pure speculation, but it's the sort of corruption Blizzard loves to use. Oh, and there is one incredibly ambiguous quote that could support the idea of M'uru's death:


 * ''Blood elf paladins have swiftly grown confident in their borrowed abilities. Nevertheless, as even the
 * ''most inexperienced mage will attest, when powerful forces are manipulated against their intended purpose...'The consequences can be perilous.'

Taken from Blizzards page: Stealing the Light Meneldir

the WoW event potential
If m'uru was going to die the "maytr" theory might be brought into play in this manner, in order 2 keep BE pallies useable: M'uru dies several npc BEs are corrupted and bust out of silvermoon in a grand faction to establish a duengon (under it [with a transport from theramore {highelf central}directly to annother door fo the alliance]maby??). However the good news is the most evil Blood Knights have been weeded out by this event leaving room for other naru to explain M'uru's plan of "slow weaning from demonic ect. energies onto the light" and reveal that any BE pallies who wish to survive must earn the light through work or become wreched. (Like those who left to establish said duengeon) This would allow the game to incorperate it (and make the pallies less moraly repungent) without trashing the BE.

Please sign your posts and... since when were the blood knights evil? Hordesupporter 18:15, 23 April 2007 (EDT)


 * I think they are evil due to the quest they give and are given. For example "Defiling Uther's Tomb" and "True Masters of the Light (3)" N&#39;Nanz 12:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

They jsut view the holy light as evil due to the fact it "abandoned" them, and view everyone who worships it as evil. Hordesupporter 04:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

They were never evil. Just zealous. I mean, look at the Scarlet Crusade: Fanatics, maybe, but not inherently evil. --dourlynome 08:15, 14 November 2007 (PDT)

Is is just me or were blood knights rushed
It just seems like blood knights seem like a last minute addition. Why they are still called palidans? There lore seems very flimsy and I haven't met a single good role player who plays a blood knight. They seem more like something you'd find everquest. Zarnks 11:11, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * They still called paladins for the same reason that Forsaken are still called Undead- because they are, however altered or perverted. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else feel that the blood knights were rushed. It just would have been cooler to get spell breakers. Zarnks 19:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Except that Spell Breakers would be a new class, and Blood Knights aren't ... Wait for the next expansion :) 21:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

You just can not rp with blood elf paladins. They're not loved even in their own city(seen in a blood knight quest),Blood elf, regular paladins don't make sense in the Horde. I say Blizzard should have introduced spirit knights. An idea of mine Spirit knights are a special type of Shaman focusing on battle and similar abilities to the palidans but a lot of their spells are different and revolve around spirits.

Even Draenei(with the new technology using draenei) shamans don't make much sense,with futuristic totems. *_* Zarnks 01:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No offense, but how are Blizzard going to implement one of your ideas as a class? Futuristic totems might make sense to your interpretation, perhaps. But real-life shamans are constantly finding ways to reinvent themselves and the tools of their craft. Some modern shamans have working microchips in their totems.
 * As for the blood knights, we had a discussion a while ago; if the Blood knights had been introduced in an RTS game, like the rest of the series, then all of the plot holes and lore issues that are arising now wouldn't be an issue- it would be something that was resolved over the course of a campaign or two. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thats my biggest gripe with Warcraft,too much stuff stays static. Zarnks 03:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Disliked by the blood elven population
Some quests saw that the Blood knights are unpopular among most blood elves. Zarnks 06:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You kinda have to take into consideration: Blood Knights, compared to the rest of the blood elf population, are extremely full of themselves. They think themselves superior to the rest of their society, because they're not afraid to use (read: corrupt) the Holy Light - in the form of torturing a being of the Light (though whether M'uru's suffering is willing or not is another debate, and best kept on his talk page) to obtain their powers. Think of them as being similar to the Highborne when compared to the rest of the night elf population before the War of the Ancients. Same general idea. --Joshmaul 20:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Most Blood Elves are vain as it is.-- 20:38, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In deed. For the same reason the highborne were disliked by the low-born, because they were haughty.

--dourlynome 08:17, 14 November 2007 (PDT)

Illidari Blood Knights
Anybody who's been exploting Netherstrom and Shadowmoon surely have notices the amounts of Blood Knights .My question is:how did they come to serve Kael and Illidan,what is your theory?Mine is(are):1.Blood Knights from the Horde have started to break away to join the Illidari 2.Since Exodar was once part of Tempest Keep from before Kael took control of it and Exodar has a Naaru,then maybe before Velen went to raid TK one Naaru was sent to raid the fortress as well and was captured for a small time(or meant to be captured from the beggining to help the Draenei when they would raid TK)to sap it's energy and create blood knights of their own(and probably succeded). maybe Velen made a pact with the Sha'tar to help them to get a part of TK and was sent there for this purpose(and probably to make blood elves a bit more redeamable by allowing them to be influenced by the Light). That's my 2 cents anyway.(Marakanis 11:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC))


 * Blood knights came into being from blood elves feeding off the energy of M'uru, the captured Naaru that is held prisoner in Silvermoon City.  11:29, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I was refering to the blood knights in service of Kael and Illidan,on the official site it said Kael subjucated M'uru and then sent him to Silvermoon,didn't say he stole some energy from it himself to make BK of his own(if this was the case blizz should have said something) (Marakanis 14:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC))

It's possible that the Illidari used some of M'uru's energies before sending him to Silvermoon. Hawki 12:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

:p
i think that "stealing the light" sounds stupid and rapes lore. sorry —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Ah, but do we care about your opinion?

--dourlynome 08:18, 14 November 2007 (PDT)

Blood Knight Ranks and Titles
I think BE paladins should get available the title corrisponding to theyr rank. EX: My paladin's name is Arÿa, and I just finished the polearm quests at lvl 22, getting the "Adept title". I'd like to run throughout Azeroth with the text "Adept Arÿa" floating above my head! Gorund 20:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This isn't the suggestion forums. 21:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

"True Paladins of the Light"
The claim is made in the text that some Blood Elves retained their faith, and weilded their powers as true Paladins of the Light. I have heard this argued before (usually by those who wish to play High Elves rather than Blood Elves), but never seen it sourced. The passage is marked as requiring citation. Can this be confirmed through a reliable source? If it cannot, it ought to be removed, or moved to a section devoted to speculation. Jubaal (talk) 11:08, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
I seem to remember that Blood Knights were used in the expansion, having the same model as the captain, but with and updated skin like the priest or sorceress. Any lore to that effect?-- Sir Tristram (Speak, mortal. My Conquests.) 08:06, 31 October 2010 (UTC)