Talk:Shadowmoon Necrolyte

Vs. MU necrolytes
It does matter. The MU necrolytes attended Gul'dan's schools and started off as warlocks before transitioning into necrolytes. These AU necrolytes have nothing to do with Gul'dan. They followed Ner'zhul into harnessing the power of the Dark Star, they were never warlocks. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:38, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep using faulty logic, keep ignoring facts, and keep unknowingly reverting your stance on this matter. On Ner'zhul's discussion page you yap about Ner'zhul being a Warlock and not a Necromancer/Necrolyte and how Warlocks can do some Necromancy and not be a Necromancer, and now you're telling me Ner'zhul was never a Warlock and that his Necrolytes followed him into doing what he did (harnessing the power of the Dark Star)? Please enlighten me, what separates Ner'zhul from his Necrolytes in terms of what they do and what energy they use.


 * Necrolyte is a Warlock "sub-class". Warlocks can focus/specialize on the Void and they both use Void and Fel to raise undead, so please explain how the Shadowmoon Necrolytes in the AU are different from the Necrolytes in the MU in terms of what they do and what energy they use. Ner'zhul is a Warlock, why? Where are his demons and Fel magic? Where are these WarlockS the "Secrets of Soulbinding" mentioned? It was not just talking about Ner'zhul. Please explain why Ner'zhul is a Warlock but not a Necrolyte/Necromancer. You're all about presenting evidence right? Where is Ner'zhul's use of Fel magic and where are his enslaved demons? If Ner'zhul is a Warlock, his Necrolytes who do the same thing as Ner'zhul with the same magic as Ner'zhul are Warlocks


 * The Orc Necrolytes in the MU originated from Warlocks, and so Warlocks wielding Shadow/Void magic came before the Necrolytes. These Necrolytes were just Warlocks who focused on Necromancy. Warlocks wield Shadow/Void magic and that is canon, and Warlocks who specialize in Shadow/Void magic are still Warlocks. Warlocks pursue power, and Gul'dan opening the school of Necromancy for Warlocks to expand their power fits into Warlock lore. Necrolytes are Warlocks.


 * How does being a Necrolyte conflict with being a Warlock? How does Necrolyte not fit into the Warlock category? Answer all the questions I asked and explain all the things I've asked you to explain. You can state, "Oh, a book item called Ner'zhul a Warlock and not a Necrolyte, so him being a Warlock and not a Necrolyte must be canon", but if the book doesn't explain why Ner'zhul is a Warlock and not a Necrolyte, openly contradicts known lore, and disregards plain common sense, is him being a Warlock really canon? Or is he obviously both Warlock and Necrolyte. Is Warlock and Necrolyte/Necromancer obviously one and the same?


 * There isn't anything that suggests Warlocks and Necrolytes/Necromancer/Necrophytes are different.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 23:03, 20 December 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * The problem was with your evidence. You linked the TCG card for MU necrolytes, which has no bearing on AU necrolytes. After doing more digging, there actually is indication for AU Ner'zhul's followers being warlocks in the quest Secrets of Soulbinding.


 * "There isn't anything that suggests Warlocks and Necrolytes/Necromancer/Necrophytes are different." Except for devs explicitly saying they are different disciplines. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 23:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I linked the TCG card for the MU Necrolytes because it does have bearing on the AU Necrolytes. The MU Necrolytes use the same magic as the AU Necrolytes to do the same thing. Warlocks are Necromancers, and Necromancers are Warlocks. Mages who became Necromancers and use Void magic for their Necromancy became Warlocks. Necrolytes/Necromancers who use Void magic for Necromancy are Warlocks.


 * Here's your problem, Devs stated Warlocks and Necromancers are different disciplines, but they did not explain WHY, and you're just accepting whatever they state. We have retarded Micky who generalized all Warlocks as Necromancers in Blood of the Highborne but eventually came to state Gul'dan was a Warlock and not a Necromancer, instead of both. He also stated Fel magic and Death magic are different even though Fel is obviously Necromantic. So, let's see if you can do what they cannot, and explain WHY Warlock and Necromancer are different disciplines.


 * Canon states lesser Warlocks NEED Soul Shards to summon/command demons, and there isn't anything that contradicts/retcons this. The old vanilla quests stated Warlocks need Soul Shards to summon/command demons, barring the imp. The Rise of the Horde novel stated Gul'dan needed Soul Shards to properly command the demons he controlled. And current content from WoD states lesser Warlocks need Soul Shards to summon minor demons.


 * The Lore Historians and you are telling me a lot of things. You and the Historians are telling me Warlocks can't offer souls in their Soul Shards a choice to serve or continue being trapped in the Soul Shard for all eternity. You and the Historians are telling me Warlocks don't pursue power and they limit themselves to specializations lore-wise. Lore-wise, Destruction Warlocks who use demonic magic to destroy people are still using demonic magic, they are still performing Demonology. Affliction Warlocks who corrupt others with demonic diseases/plagues and drain souls with Fel magic are still performing Demonology. You are telling me Destruction and Demonology Warlocks don't seek to drain souls into Soul Shards when canon states Warlocks using Soul Shards is a part of their class. In Vanilla, TBC, and WoTLK, Soul Shards were not limited to spec and the reason why it is now is purely for gameplay reasons.


 * Succubi (lesser Shadow Priestesses/Warlocks), Observers (who spend their immortal lives bearing witness to new forms of magic), Terrorguards, Doomguards, and Shivarra (High-ranking Shadow Priestesses/Warlocks of the Legion) are immortal demons who have the knowledge of how to drain/manipulate souls, and it makes sense Wrathguards would know how to drain souls too, since they were Eredar from Argus who serve as the Man'ari Eredar Warlocks' honor guards, and had thousands of years to pick up the Drain Soul spell. Imps have the inherent ability to phase-shift and become intangible, and could most likely possess a corpse. You and the Lore Historians are telling me Warlocks don't pursue the power to control these beings and/or learn their secrets. Succubi have the ability to mind control the weak-minded, much like Shadow Priests, who originated from the Orc Necrolytes, who were Warlocks. There are two examples of Warlocks controlling a Succubus who in turn are controlling others. The Historians are telling me Warlocks who can control Succubi who can control weak-minded Undead can't control weak-minded Undead themselves by learning their Succubi's mind-controlling powers, let alone command their Succubi to command the weak-minded Undead for them.


 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/tomb/en/37/Mind-Shatter
 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/tomb/en/7/Mistress-Nesala


 * Warlocks were never just about summoning and enslaving demons, ex: Gul'dan mind controlling Garona. In W1, Warlocks had spells to summon great creatures - even Daemons and command them. Daemons and Undead came from the same place in Warcraft sweetie pie. If we went back in time to W1, wouldn't it make sense if Warlocks also had the ability to summon and control Skeletons since Warlocks could summon and control Daemons who came from the same place as the Skeletons? Since summoning Daemons and summoning Skeletons weren't far-fetched since they came from the same place, perhaps that's why Gul'dan practiced Necromancy and opened a school for it, and perhaps that's why his Warlocks also learned Necromancy? Summoning Daemons and summoning Skeletons were not far-fetched. Regardless of the fact that the information from Warcraft is old, from a lore-perspective, why can't a Warlock achieve what the lore in W1 states they can achieve? From a lore-perspective, why can't a Warlock make a contract/pact with an Undead in the Undercity that states the Warlock would have to summon that Undead wherever in exchange for his/her servitude? Could the Warlock not make a pact with an Undead with a conscious with mere words or a piece of parchment? People like you and the Historians need to think about these things.


 * ^^^^http://www.wowcards.info/card/ancients/en/111/Stormwind-Summoner^^^


 * Voidwalkers/Voidlords have the inherent ability to drain/manipulate souls. Voidlords, especially Voidlords, would obviously have the ability to redirect souls to corpses. Warlocks who can summon and control Voidwalkers/Voidlords obviously knows enough about the Void. The Lore Historians are telling me Warlocks who can control Voidwalkers/Voidlords can't learn more from them (learn their secrets), let alone command them to use their inherent ability to control souls for them. Voidwalkers/Voidlords are not demons per canon, so would summoning a Voidwalker/Voidlord really be considered Demonology? Or would summoning a Voidwalker/Voidlord actually be considered Necromancy? Ohhhhhhhh snapppp *mind blown*


 * So.....Warlocks are not the same as Necromancers? Not all Warlocks seek to emulate demons and/or void creatures? Not all Warlocks seek to control demons and/or void creatures and learn their secrets? Warlocks don't seek to control Succubi, Doomguards, Terrorguards, Voidwalkers, Voidlords, Observers, and Wrathguards and learn from them? Stupid Sean Dopeland is telling me a lot of things indeed, he is telling me the majority of the demons we can summon and control is non-canon and he is telling me the void creatures we can summon and control is non-canon. Oh, look at me, I'm dumb Sean Dopeland, I ignore everything Vision of Perfection states and I enjoy making non-sense statements.

Sean Dopeland: Dreadlords are demons, just like Succubi Warlocks, Man'ari Eredar Warlocks, Terrorguards, Doomguard, and Shivarra Warlocks, calling demons Necromancers/Warlocks seems to pidgeonhole/limit their abilities. Warlocks are pidgeonholed/limited despite being able to summon and control them. Warlocks are pigeonholed/limited to the Warlock class even when they transform themselves into demons with their fel magic, which has the inherent ability to transform Warlocks into demons........The fact that people tolerate morons like him...drives me insane.


 * ^All of this aside, tell me more about how Blood Death Knights are the masters of life and death because they drain and manipulate blood (life-force) to sustain themselves. Undead are reanimated/sustained by life-force and Warlocks do the same thing as Death Knights, they drain and manipulate life-force, whether it's blood, souls, or that Green crap. Yes, Undead are those who have died and were reanimated by life-force, but the fact is, they contain life-force and they are sustained by it. Would Undead Warlocks healing themselves with the Drain Life spell be considered Necromancy? If not, why would an Undead Death Knight healing himself with Blood (Death Pact, Blood Tap) be consider Necromancy? That Green crap and Blood are both life-forces. So why would an Undead Warlock using the Drain Life spell to heal himself not be considered Necromancy when it's basically the same thing as an Undead Death Knight using Blood Tap? They're both using life-force to heal. Undead contain life-force and are sustained by it. The living contain life-force and are sustained by it. Death Coil may be a Shadow spell that oddly looks Green, but it drains life-force, and therefore it contains life-force. Using Death Coil to drain life-force to heal/sustain the living who contain life-force is the same as using Death Coil to drain life-force to heal/sustain Undead who contain life-force. Necromancy is an art inherently achieved through Fel, and so Fel is the same as Death magic. I wonder, if Fel magic and Death magic are not the same and Void/Shadow is Death magic, why does Void/Shadow magic contain life-force ex, Death Coil? Does it have something to do with the yin yang (the Light is life and contains a little Shadow and Shadow is death and contains a little life) mumbo jumbo? Here is retarded Micky for you folks: Death magic and Fel Magic are not the same even though Fel drains life. Death magic doesn't drain life and/or doesn't heal the living even though Undead contain life-force and are sustained by it, just like the living, and so Death Coil isn't really a Death spell. #getwrecked


 * Destroying your Ghoul minion and using their blood (life-force) to heal/empower/sustain yourself via the Death Pact ability is the same as destroying a demon minion and using their felblood (life-force) to heal/empower/sustain yourself via the Grimoire of Sacrifice ability.


 * Necrotic Pact and Sacrificial Pact requires sacrificing life-force, the only difference is that Necrotic Pact is using life-force to give life-force to the dead and Sacrificial Pact is using life-force to give a shield, so why wouldn't the Warlocks' Sacrificial Pact be considered a Necrotic Shield? Necromantic magic has many functions beyond raising the dead.


 * Unholy Armor uses your life-force to create shield/armor. Fel Armor uses your life-force to create shield/armor.


 * Please tell me how Warlocks are not the masters of life and death when their Fel magic requires them to drain and manipulate life-force. Fel magic drains life and the Drain Life spell ages the victim. You are telling me Warlocks can't age themselves by making their own life-force drain out via the Life Tap spell, becoming rotten and old, and you are telling me Warlocks can't use a little bit of that life-force they've drained out to sustain themselves, but barely, making a true transition into Undeath like Meryl Felstorm. You are also telling me Warlocks can't drain life from others, aging and rotting them, keeping them alive, but barely, and making them transition into undeath, then controlling them with Fel energy.


 * http://www.wowhead.com/quest=28360
 * http://www.wowhead.com/npc=48455/felrot-courser
 * http://www.wowhead.com/npc=48455/felrot-courser#screenshots:id=208469


 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/azeroth/en/128/Life-Tap


 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/azeroth/en/190/Kena-Shadowbrand
 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/dark-portal/en/207/Dramla-Lifebender
 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/drums/en/104/Revival-Stone


 * ^Do you acknowledge that Warlocks manipulate life-force via Life Tap, Drain Life, Dark Regeneration, Revival Stone, Demonic Soulstones, Shadows of Death, Grimoire of Sacrifice, Blood Pact, Health Funnel, Blood Fear, Soul Link, Soul Leech, Siphon Life, Soul Siphon, Soul Harvest, Flames of the Necromancers', the Dreadlords' world, Xoroth, Demonic Rebirth, etc.?


 * Now, tell me, why are Death Knights masters of life and death (Necromancers) for draining and manipulating life-force but not Warlocks. Fel is inherently Necromantic. Necromancers pursue power. Warlocks pursue power. Necromancers manipulate life-energy. Warlocks manipulate life-energy. Necromancers use life-energy to raise the dead. Warlocks use life-energy to raise the dead. Please explain how Warlocks and Necromancers pursue different disciplines when they both use the same magics to do the same thing? How do Warlocks and Necromancers pursue different disciplines when Necromancy was a school opened by the so called "first Warlock" Gul'dan in order to expand his and the other Warlocks' power? Do you believe there are Warlocks who don't follow in Gul'dan's path or something? If there are Warlocks who don't follow in Gul'dan's path, they really aren't dedicating themselves to the Warlock arts. How do Warlocks and Necromancers pursue different disciplines when the "Warlock discipline" involves picking up different disciplines in their pursuit of power? How do Warlocks and Necromancers pursue different disciplines when Necromancy originated from demons who used Fel and Shadow and Warlocks learn to wield the techniques/powers demons employ? How do Warlocks and Necromancers pursue different disciplines when Necromancy can be attained through Demonology?


 * If Warlocks aren't manipulating souls, they are still manipulating that Green crap that is inherently Necromantic and they still use Void energy which is apparently Necromantic. When the Lore Historians state Warlocks are not the same as Necromancers they are telling me Warlocks don't use Fel (don't drain and manipulate life-force) for the "dark arts", whatever that means....I'm now under the impression that the Lore Historians believe Warlocks use life-force for good and not evil. Go back to Gul'dan's account of the Orcs' History in W2 and you'll find out that no where does he mention anything about learning how to summon and control demons. Demons and Skeletons came from the same place in Warcraft, the Twisting Nether, and although Gul'dan stated ancient demonic races were made known to him, he doesn't state he learned how to summon and control demons. Let's take a look at what Gul'dan stated. He learned how to separate his soul from his body under Kil'jaeden, this is when he learned that the spirits of the dead truly existed. He stated that these spirits would be a useful tool to those who could bind them to his will. He eventually bestowed the knowledge of the dead to Warlocks and after a time, a pact was formed with these dark spirits they have learned to invoke. Given the fact that Demons and Skeletons came from the same place, the Underworld, in Warcraft and Gul'dan and the Warlocks actually made a pact with demons and not dark spirits/souls of the dead, do you think these dark spirits from W2 were referring to the Demons? Necromancy extends to summoning souls/spirits and Demonology and Necromancy were therefore the same in Warcraft. Soul Gem and Soulstone are synonymous terms and the Soul Gems that were fixated into the first generation Death Knights' truncheons contained Necromantic energies of Gul'dan's sacrificed Necrolytes. These were either Void or Fel energies inside the gems, but knowing that Necromancy can be attained through Fel and these energies were culled from sacrificed Necrolytes and manifested with a Green color, it's obvious these Necromantic energies were Fel. Fel and Necromantic magic still does the same thing baby boy. Notice how Ner'zhul sacrificing life-force (souls and Draenei blood) to summon void creatures is extremely similar to sacrificing life-force (souls and that Green crap) to summon void creatures and demons.


 * Demons are considered "evil" are they not? Demons would go to the Void or the Twisting Nether when they die would they not? Would sacrificing life-force to summon demons in the Void be considered Necromancy, Demonology, or both?


 * http://www.wowcards.info/card/ancients/en/57/Call-the-Void


 * I can't take clowns like Loreology seriously, who believes Plague isn't Fel because Fel is Entropic. Does he think Plague is Nature+Shadow which is what the Plague school combines in-game? Isn't Shadow/Void energy Necromantic and therefore "detrimental" to the living? Wouldn't Shadow/Void energy "drain" or "kill" life from Nature?


 * Come now *in French accent* he explained how in-game talents and abilities work before, perhaps he'd like to explain how this in-game talent and this in-game abilitiy work.


 * http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155361/void-entropy
 * http://www.wowhead.com/spell=170480


 * Plague was called a life-draining sickness. Nature is Green. Fel is Green. Void is Entropic. Fel is Entropic. Void drains life from Nature. Fel drains life from Nature. That clown may state Plague combines Shadow+Nature to achieve the same SENSATION, Green color, and effect as Fel, but stating/believing Plague is not Fel is retarded. Loreology is not canon, he doesn't deserve to be imo, and so I treat him as non-canon, as he deserves.


 * Micky goes from generalizing all Warlocks as Necromancers to stating one of the holiest of the Warlocks, Gul'dan, was not. Micky wrote the Ashbringer comic did he not? Surely Micky reviews his own material? There was an Orc who was called a Warlock and he utilized an orb that spewed Green crap and drained someone's hand of life, turning their hand undead-like (rotten). How was the orb used to create the Ashbringer a manifestation of the Void when it was held by a Warlock and spewed Green crap that does the same thing as Fel? He can't state Death magic and Fel magic are different, or at least he shouldn't, he's making himself seem like a dumb dumb, and he ignores what I have to tell him, defying common sense, I can't take him seriously either. And rude as I am, I'd like to apologize for editing a bunch, I'm typing from my Ipad heheheheVisionOfPerfection (talk) 00:50, 21 December 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection


 * But. The problem wasn't the claim, the problem was the source. And now that a source from WoD calling them Warlocks is in the article, there's no problem. You are overreacting way too much about this, dude. ReignTG (talk) 07:25, 21 December 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem was not the source, and I wasn't making any claims either. I'm just using plain common sense, something that a lot of people are incapable of using. The Orc Necrolytes in the MU were former Shamans, just like Ner'zhul and his Necrolytes were. The Shamans who became Necrolytes in the MU were Warlocks who focused on using the Void to raise undead skeletons, but of course they were still capable of summoning demons and using Fel magic, but that's irrelevant. Prior to canon information that states there were Necromancers before Gul'dan and his Necrolytes (like the Dreadlords, who used Fel energy for Necromancy, by the way), Necrolytes/Necromancers who used the Void for Necromancy originated from Gul'dan, a Warlock, who opened the school of Necromancy for Warlocks, meaning Warlocks were the first class known to wield Shadow/Void magic, not Mages, not Shamans, not Paladins, not Druids, but WARLOCKS. Necrolytes/Necromancers falls under Warlock, and there isn't anything that suggests Warlocks and Necromancers are different, those two have been melded into the same thing, and so clearly the source was not the problem. The problem is that Historians and people on this site are using non-sense logic to support their theory that Warlocks are different from Necromancers....Anyways......The Shadowmoon Necrolytes were Orc Necrolytes who used the Void, just like the MU Necrolytes..... It does not matter if the AU Necrolytes were Shamans who jumped into using Void and not Fel. Shamans, excluding Dark Shamans, don't have anything to do with the Void, while Warlocks do.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 08:30, 21 December 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Lol. --Mordecay (talk) 23:54, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Warlock
Previous "conversation" aside, is that reference applicable to this specific unit? --Mordecay (talk) 23:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Holy shit that wall of text. I'm not sure "Warlock" belongs to this unit considering he doesn't use warlock spells, but I don't really care that much seeing as Category:Necrolytes already inherits from both the "Warlock" and "Necromancer" categories. Xporc (talk) 08:06, 18 December 2017 (UTC)