Talk:Stormwind (region)

Stormwind Harbour!
On the PTR blizzard added new NPCs in Stormwind that is on their way to build the Stormwind Harbour! I hope Horde get a harbour or something too, possebly they whould get one in silvermoon or orgrimmar. Anyway, the stormwind harbour will be a huge RP boost in stormwind, and possebly they will have boats to darnassus and azuremyst isle, making newbie alliance much less issolated. Chaos of Warcraft (talk) 10:53, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No, the boat in Stormwind Harbour is going to Northrend, and Horde will have extra zeppelins going there too. Besides, why can't night elves and draenei just walk to Ironforge? For the first 20 levels or so they would be leveling in their own zones and after that Wetlands isn't so dangerous for them. Jormungand01 (talk) 20:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It has a boat going to Auberdine too at the moment. And no, characters should not be restricted to their own races' starting zones. 20:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In the WotLK beta? I'm not on the beta so I can't really comment, but I did hear that it would be going to Valiance Keep. And Blizzard did intend for characters to level in their own starting zones, which is why many of the quests there are race-specific. Even still there is nothing to stop them going to other starting zones, but it just takes longer. Jormungand01 (talk) 09:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Political Status
For the longest time I've been wondering why this article describes Stormwind as a "city-state." Is it described as that in one of the RPG books? Because in WoW numerous NPCs refer to it as a "Kingdom" encompassing Elwynn, Westfall, Redridge and Duskwood. Anyway, clarification would be super.


 * I think one or more of those citations must say something about it being a city-state. I am not sure which specific one though. If you click on any of the citations, then it will take you to the citation page and you can see where it is from.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 09:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Article should be renamed
This article should be renamed to the "Kingdom of Stormwind", and article Stormwind City should be renamed to "Stormwind". That's because there is no faction called "Stormwind City", there is only faction called "Stormwind". Thats the reason why this article should be renamed to the "Kingdom of Stormwind". Faction (current article Stormwind City) should be named "Stormwind". --Novis-M


 * Okay the Kingdom of Stormwind was only a part of the Kingdom of Azeroth? I always thought they were one and the same. The Kingdom of Azeroth split into smaller groups which includes the kingdom of Stormwind. All the other parts didn't call themselves kingdoms? Now the Kingdom of Azeroth does not exist?    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 02:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * From my understanding, which does not incorporate any of the information in the various RPG books, the Kingdom of Stormwind was known as the Kingdom of Azeroth up until its conquest by the Horde during the First War. During the Second War, the Alliance defeated the Horde, and reclaimed the region, and it was renamed Stormwind.

Rewrite
This may get me banned, I don't know. But I had to rewrite the introduction to this article. I've consulted the RPG sources that it originally cited, and found they've all been cited for the wrong reasons, and were just generally confused.

Look, there's a difference between Stormwind City and the Kingdom of Stormwind. This article is about the kingdom, which includes Elwynn Forest, Westfall, Duskwood and the Redridge Mountains, but for some reason people have decided to write this article as if Stormwind City is itself the kingdom. Stormwind is not a "city state nation" or anything like that: it is a kingdom, with its capital city at Stormwind City.

If this doesn't get reverted and I get banned, I may well go through the rest of the article to clean it up, and move all the city-specific information to the Stormwind City article. But we'll see. I can only imagine the backlash I'll get for this. It needed to be done, however. -- Aubin


 * Firstly, the Kingdom of Stormwind DOES NOT include Elwynn Forest, Westfall and all the others you mentioned. The Kingdom of Azeroth DID, but after the Third War it broke up into independant states, of which the Kingdom of Stormwind is the most powerful. Secondly, in WoW Stormwind City is the kingdom. It actually also comprises of the area to the north, but since that is inaccesible in-game it doesn't really count. Jormungand01 (talk)


 * If Westfall is an independent state why does the People's Militia is waiting for the Stormwind Army? --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 16:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Further, if that's the case, why does Magistrate Solomon in Redridge specifically refer to Stormwind as "our Kingdom" and as Lakeshire being within the Kingdom of Stormwind when characters talk to him. I have consulted the books and done researched the applicable quests in the game: none of them say that the regions I listed are not part of the Kingdom of Stormwind. They all simply indicate that these areas are growing increasingly independent because the royal government won't respond to their troubles. -- Aubin


 * Because its under Stormwind's control. Its one of Stormwind's controlled regions, its just not the Stormwind region itself. As a seperate region, it has its own ruler (think something like a Governor, who is allowed to have his own form of government). They'd even have Westfall if they hadn't let it fall into defias hands. More or less yes Stormwind was larger at one time, and had more direct control of the various regions. But thanks to Katrana that was changed.


 * Aubin you won't be banned, although I had to revert part of your changes. If the status of the kingdom is progressed with the return of King Varian, the page will be updated to reflect this, with the older info moved into the history section.Baggins (talk) 17:26, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Not to belabor this point, but I just don't understand the political distinction between a "controlled region" and a province or territory. For example: Gaul was controlled by Rome as a province, with its own provincial army and government, but it was still considered part of the "Roman Empire." Massachusetts is controlled by and part of the United States, even though it has its own state government and state laws. So I just don't understand the distinction.


 * I think the crux of my problem with this article has always been this: no one has clearly established the difference between the Stormwind region (i.e., the gray area we cannot access in WoW), the Stormwind kingdom, and Stormwind City itself. This article has always been a jumbled mess of citations referencing Stormwind City, Stormwind the inaccessible region, and Stormwind the kingdom. I feel that, as one of the major articles on this wiki and one of the major factions / nations in the lore, it deserves a clear and concise article. My intention was, I guess, merely to clarify. -- Aubin (talk) 17:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I'd agree for a while its more like rome. However, thanks to Katrana it reverted to a state almost like Greece, :p... While technically places were "considered" parts of the kingdom, it was ignoring some of its outlying regions, and letting them fall into anarchy. Duskwood is not controlled by anyone pretty much, just a small area around Darkshire. Redridge has become lawless except for the small parts around Lakeshire.


 * Westfall completely fallen, sentinel hill is more of a camp than an actual village.


 * ...and most if not all of of Stormwind's troops were called back to Elwynn Forest, and Stormwind proper. Thus why the leaders of the regions keep on making requests for more forces from Stormwind or the Alliance.Baggins (talk) 17:56, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * We completely agree on this point. The royal government did let the outlying regions fall into disorder, resulting in them forming their own militias and acting more-or-less independently. But that does not mean that they are not part of the kingdom, at least as a technicality.


 * I thought my description was apt: these regions fall within the borders of the kingdom, but only nominally. Due to the government's failure to respond to their problems, they have grown more independent. But they are no less a part of Stormwind, in terms of political scope, than Aquitaine was after Eleanor married Henry. Aquitaine stilled owed fealty to the King of France, it just so happened that Aquitaine was more-or-less its own country.


 * If I could make a recommendation, it would be to keep this article as the main Stormwind article, and have it address the kingdom and the region jointly, describing what each one is. Then move the city portion of this article to the Stormwind City article. I don't think the "Kingdom of Stormwind" needs it own article, else what purpose would this article serve except for a description of the inaccessible region? -- Aubin (talk) 18:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Since you like history, think of Westfall like Scotland at the time of William Wallace. :) Let's say it is contested by Stormwind and the Defias but Stormwind has very few control over it. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 18:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but the reference in the guides is that it is "independent" and that still stands until later lore updates the situation. In anycase I'm adding the comments from LoC that clarify how much control, or how much influence Stormwind has on the outlying regions to the various articles. Baggins (talk) 18:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Baggins, regarding Kingdom of Stormwind page, I create the paragraph about his history. Do we have to mention Katrana and the nobility as responsible of its decadence after the war? Or lore article are not meant to reveal game plot? --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 18:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead, create a history section.Baggins (talk) 18:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

28000 dwarves?
It's hard to imagine that Stormwind City has a higher dwarfish population than Ironforge... Oberscht (talk) 14:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Faction box
Why is there a faction box? This article is about the region of Stormwind, not the nation itself. It should either be moved to the 'Kingdom of Stormwind' article, or be removed completely. The template itself consists of links to capital cities, but does not link to Stormwind City. In that case it should also link to the Kingdom of Ironforge, instead of the city. It's a silly faction box that is only used in this page. Unireal 18:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

three wars?
Stormwind commited it's knights, priests and paladins in the 'three wars against the Horde'. The article says. But I would say there were either two or more than three wars against the horde, you could even argue for their being only one war against the horde as the section 'prelude to war' in the second war article actually says the horde was only formed at the start of the second war. Perhaps it would just be easiest to remove the word 'three' from the text here. --Fransbal (talk) 12:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Unless the fact is taken directly from a written source, I agree with you.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 17:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge?
Given that most of the information on this page is largely speculative and concerning an area that's simply going to be water in Cataclysm, I think it should probably be merged with Kingdom of Stormwind. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:56, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably. We have Deathwing Scar. I'm not sure if this page was about the closed zone or... something in the RPG. I think it is related to the idea that the Kingdom of Stormwind is/was just the city, with the other zones being protectorates that swore fealty or something (not sure if that is just in the RPG or not). I'm not sure if the RPG really says anything about this area. I'll check. Then it seems someone decided that the lore region of "Stormwind" is not just the in-game zone/city called that, but the unused area north of it too, then naming the closed zone this. I know this is late.-- 03:55, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, just a tiny bit. Anyway, yeah, every single reference is from the RPG, so I'm revising my previous merge suggestion from Kingdom of Stormwind to Stormwind City. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:42, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I know I'm late on this, but I also vote on merging both. Xporc (talk) 20:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Well, after so many years I think it's time to merge this page. Maybe create a section in the new page talking about the region etc. as an RPG thing? Also where could be merged? To Stormwind (kingdom), Stormwind City or Northern Elwynn Mountains? Ryon21 (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for wanting to tackle this, that article is bollocks. Sentences clearly talking about Stormwind City ("A grand city with new construction that still gives a nod to human and dwarven architecture of old, one can move about Stormwind on foot, rent one of many mounts or even have a small boat take them through the several canals that bisect the city", the part about the shipyard, etc.) should go in the RPG section of the city, and everything else should go into Stormwind (kingdom) ("Even as the humans rebuilt, much of Stormwind reverted to wilderness, closer to the world's natural state than in a thousand years. The tribes of forest trolls and the ogre lords emerge to stake claims on the wild lands, resulting in rising clashes between all races.") since it's supposed to cover Elwynn Forest, Westfall, the mountains north of Stormwind City, etc. Xporc (talk) 16:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay I think I can do that. When I can I'll merge it then ;) Ryon21 (talk) 17:16, 8 December 2017 (UTC)