Talk:Elune

Status
"a legend which no-one belives" Come now. Many people believes this. I have changed it to 'a legend which no ELF believes' because that is actual fact. Saimdusan


 * Yes gods do not have classes as such... Although she is a "Healer" ...Baggins


 * She's also a warrior, a mother, and a thousand other things. GODDESS.-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:59, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Nah they didn't make her a warrior, she never fights according to the lore LOL. A mother isn't really a class ;).Baggins 20:08, 2 January 2007 (EST)


 * You're missing the point entirely. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:10, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Just having fun playing with you ;).Baggins 20:45, 2 January 2007 (EST)


 * Is "Awesome" an available character class? -- 20:48, 2 January 2007 (EST)


 * I know "Epic" is for certain classes, but "Amighty" might be possible, ;), :D. By the way she is an "85th-level...Healer"  with a "challenge rating if 92", of course those gameplay mechanics will stay out of the article :p. But there isn't anyone any higher as far as I remember when I scanned through that numerical RPG stuff. :p Boring as hell, and I don't understand what half the stuff means, or care to...20:54, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Difficulty is, She isn't almighty, not quite. Even so, She's never been seen in corporeal form. Unlike the gods in most Wizards of the Coast RPGs. I point out again that the Warcraft RPG reads more like a D&D campaign setting. And "healer" doesn't make sense. A cleric in the D&D/NWN sense would, but not healer. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:26, 3 January 2007 (EST)

A note about the artist, AD
I utterly loathe that image of Elune- but it's official, so it stays. --Ragestorm 16:36, 17 December 2006 (EST)


 * It is apparently the work of Allen Dilling he was an artist hired to do artwork for Warcraft III, and World of Warcraft, and has done artwork for Blizzard for the RPG as well. I do not know if he's an employee of Blizzard's or a freelance artist.Baggins 17:21, 5 January 2007 (EST)

I don't care if Metzen drew is personally, it sends totally the wrong impression; Great Goddesses are never portrayed as chibi!-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:31, 5 January 2007 (EST)
 * No, no don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with criticizing the artwork, I was just letting you know the pedigree behind it.Baggins 20:36, 5 January 2007 (EST)


 * Nehh, I wouldn't really call it 'chibi'. I mean, it doesn't look chibi, and in my opinion, it's better than the two pictures of a moon and a statue modelled after a stock Night Elf there were before.  --Super Bhaal


 * It's an eyesore, it has a chibi face, and it suggests one of the most powerful beings in Azeroth is a cheap rip-off of the Aphrodite character on Xena. And sign your posts. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:26, 13 January 2007 (EST)


 * Alrighty, signing posts. Would you like me to remove it, since it's creating all these 'problems'?  I mean, like you said, 'it's official', but you're one of the higher-ups, so if you think it's killing the page...  --Super Bhaal 16:27, 13 January 2007

Keep it, imo, it is official. We can keep all artwork critiques in the talk page where it belongs. If you hadn't had put it up I would have.Baggins 16:21, 13 January 2007 (EST)


 * I am being totally honest when I say I wouldn't dream of removing it. It's official, it's professional. I just don't like it. I don't like 18th century portraits, but I hardly think the Met should scrap their exhibition!-- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:44, 13 January 2007 (EST)
 * ROTFLOLBaggins 18:45, 13 January 2007 (EST)


 * Sir, it is Blizzard. They do this kind of thing a lot. Live with it. -- 16:33, 27 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Did you even read what he said? He is living with it! I agree Rage, it's fugly. Especially since she doesn't seem to be covered, like, I dunno, AT ALL! Saimdusan 22:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

what the heck do you mean it's awful? lol she's HOT. why would you say therwise? i think it should definately stay it's incredible i think the should have shown it in more detailt too. great pic.--Rahnumed 21:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Captain Objectification. Look, laughably skimpy paladin armor is one thing. This is a damn deity. This is Varda. She is Glithoniel Ever-white, glory of the starry host, not a Sailor Moon villain. Please. There must be another official picture of Elune out there. Bluemalkin (talk) 23:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)Bluemalkin


 * I agree that it's a nice picture, but as far as extra detail goes I think Samwise Didier was busy with other art. She's an eternal, and can afford to wear little to nothing.  I mean, look at Archimonde.  He wore nothing but a loincloth and shoulderpads that would make the cast of Dynasty jealous.

They could have really underdressed her like with the picture of Tyrande ( who wore less and nobody's griping )  from the same book...as for her lack of armor, it's a fantasy game for cryin' out loud! Grom Hellscream didn't wear anything but pants and a shoulderpad and according to Shadows & Light he had a +5 mithril full plate of fortification; Uther looked like he was wearing a t-shirt and a bunch of rags and he had +5 adamantine full plate of fortification...hell, Illidan doesn't have anything on but pants and a huge belt. --Super Bhaal 00:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Define "chibi".--Austin P 01:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Child-bodied. Potato1 (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Just a myth?
This Elune stuff is weird, one one side there is god like beings who shape worlds and all that and the lore recognizes the world as round and the stars as burning balls of gas, on the other it has Elune being some mysterious goddess and the stars somehow changing from balls of burning gas to the souls of night elves or something.

Is it possible that Elune and the night elf religion is just that, a set of myths, and the priestly powers that NE priests wield is just the force...sorry, "The Light" in another form?.

I guess I'm still getting to grips with this situation where incredibly powerful immortal beings are the ones interfering, shaping and all that, and the heavens themselves seem dominated by Titans, Burning Legions and Light loving Naaru, yet there is also honest to god (forgive the pun) Gods yet they don't seem to do much else apart from exist somewhere in some abstract function.

In Forgotten Realms, The gods could interfere, in some cases could die, but were still gods, whats Blizzard wanting to achieve?, I get the impression on one side they want a fantasy flavored sci-fi universe wide war, yet on the other they are trying to make room for abstract un-interfering gods. Are they more powerful then Titans?, why do they chose to not interfere with the world?, how can Titans be traveling the universe wielding powers beyond contemplation yet gods that are confined to small worlds and certain aspects and portfolios can exist and yet be considered gods where Titans aren't?. As a personal opinion alone, I'de love for Blizzard to be more sure in their lore about the status of the divine. While as a cultural quirk I don't mind a bunch of forest dwelling humanoids worshiping the moon (we didn't mind doing it for thousands upon thousands of years) I wouldn't mind knowing where gods fit into the grand scheme of things. If Titans and the Burning legion aren't spiritual or divine and aren't gods, then is there a proper hell? proper demons? real life evil gods?. Its like theres two mythologies trying to occupy the same niche, it does my head in. :P

In short, I'de like to know if the Titans fluff is "real" and the other religious mumbo jumbo is mostly just cultural flavorings?, on one account we have a god like stag creating the world and nature, and getting his jiggy on with the moon to birth Cenarius, while on the other hand we have a primal world ruled by old gods and elemental servants, with godlike (yet somehow not gods) Titans defeated the old gods who apparently held total dominion over ancient Azeroth, and shaping it into their own designs. It feels like theres conflicting lores competing for one world. It could be that Elune and Malorne were "good" old gods who stayed out the way so to speak, but it doesn't awnser the fact that theres a universe of worlds where these gods aren't worshiped, but don't exist. As I said, as cultural religious flavourings its all fine, but in a fantasy where gods and their powers are manifest upon a world, it kind of presents problems.

--Nurizeko


 * Elune has displayed (and the Warcraft encyclopedia confirms) that she is her own being; she specifically shielded Tyrande in the War of the Ancients. She can't be the Light at all, unless you've seen a paladin rain starshards down. The answer to most of the above is "we don't know." The titans have apparantly been retconned from "gods" to godlike," all I can really say on the subject.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 09:18, 5 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Hmm, apparently the Titans have challenge ratings ranging from 65 to 77; Elune on the other hand is a 92. I hope that sheds some light on your question.  --Super Bhaal 03:57, 6 April 2007 (EDT)


 * Personally, I don't buy that Tyrande being "shielded," and "starshards," are proof of Elune's existence. Although it doesn't give us any reason to believe so, I have a theory that Elune is merely a figment of Night Elvish imagination. To me, that's a Metzen-esque twist. Besides, there are no real deities in Azeroth. The Loa Gods don't seem to be... Gods. I mean, we KILL Shadra. Not an avatar of Shadra. We kill SHADRA.


 * We rebind Myzrael, we take can take down C'thun (where does it say he's weakened, anyway?), we kill Shadra, and sooner or later, we're going to be meeting the Titans. (-> Ulduar/Uldum, maybe?) Also, the "Light," isn't so much an abstract force, as it is a bunch of sigil-like aliens granting Humans (and then other races, subsequently) they've never contacted with otherwise, the power to heal and resurrect and such.


 * There really isn't anything that is abstract in WarCraft. And if there IS something, it doesn't remain that way for long. --Yaki 04:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * According to the RPG Elune is the only "real" or "true" God/dess, while all other Eternals are just, demigods or less.Baggins 05:06, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Granted, the RPG isn't very definitive in lore and storyline. I mean, Teron Gorefiend, amirite? --Yaki 05:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Depends, if its Brann, or other in-universe source, they give out several possible theories and never claims any specific one is definitely right. Brann has only given one theory for Teron Gorefiend, and he gave at least two other opposing and contrasting theories as well, for why it might not be Teron (Sargeras or some unknown being). In-universe sources having opposing views is similar to opposing theories given in World of Warcraft by various characters as well. As for the "Elune" being the only "true" or "real" God, that is mentioned in the RPG (in more encyclopedic style rather than in-universe for the most part), but its hardly the only source for that comment. Warcraft Encyclopedia brings it up as well. In anycase RPG is under Metzen's control and he is on its staff, like any other source material.Baggins 05:31, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it could all get clear if, instead of thinking about Elune as religious stuff, just take her NE idea as that. The most certain is that Elune is the light and the God-mother all in one, its just the diferent races sees her in diferent ways (religious stuff). It becomes much acepptable whe you confront Malorne NE and tauren tales. Elune wanted to create Cenarius (well, or just to fuck with Malorne, who knows), so she convince the Taurens, as the Earth-mother to hunt it. Or not...--Orcnoel (talk) 19:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No sources have called Elune the light. I hate to be the party pooper but we pretty much know exactly what Elune is. What the NE believe is not simply their perception, but the reality (with one or two small exceptions such as her sleeping in the former well). The tauren myths are just that: myths, they don't have to be anything more, nor do they have to be justified to make sense. 21:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Watch the language, please, Orcnoel. You can phrase that without resorting to R-rated language. Tiraline (talk) 21:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Reverted censorship. I respect people's opinions about words being "bad," but it's certainly counterproductive, overstepping one's bounds and against the spirit of Wikis in general to censor someone else's message on a talk page. Lethal Breastmilk (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Old God(ess)?
Just a thought since most of the old gods have there own cults (E.G Cthun the aquir and Ragnoras' dark iron dwarves). What if the Night elves are actualy worshiping an OLD GOD??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * 1) Sign your posts, please. 2) this is not a forum, the discussion pages are for discussing edits to the articles, and 3) Elune has diametrically opposed all previous schemes of the Old Gods and appears to be far more benign than all of them combined- if she is one of them, she's done a complete 180. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If Elune was an old god her lieutenant would probably be Therazane for obvious reasoms. Therezane is the most benevolent of the elemental lords, and druids still revere her. She seems almost completely opposite of what we know of the old gods and elementals in general. Considering that the various elementals are at war with each other, could the Old Gods been at war with each other before the Titans showed up? This would open up the possiblity that perhaps if Elune was an Old God and the only benevolent one, she may have sided with the Titans, thus establishing the connection between her people's druids and Therazane.Baggins 16:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This would mean that the Old Gods themselves don't conform to the elemental pentarchy, as Elune clearly isn't earth-based. The night elves believed that Elune slept beneath the Well of Eternity during the day, which is likely the legend that would arise if she were the Old God imprisoned/dwelling beneath the Well. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

A couple of those responses I've heard were like. "Yeah Right" and ironically in the same post "Maybe she was like a good/not evil old god". I want either flat out nubish response or something compelling (The flat out nubish response is so we can laugh at the idiocy). What I have hear is just unhumourous hypocritical (Generaly hypocrites are humorous in there acts) work with sympathy and idiocy --The last Alterac 03:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Huh?Baggins 05:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * ^ what he said.Warthok 06:24, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Short answer: Yes, it might be possible, but probably not. Long answer: No. --Sky (t · c · w) 06:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and put this in as speculation. Further discussion on the topic itself should be moved to the analysis page, discussion on editing the subsection should stay here Oakpack4 (talk) 01:58, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Troll god?
Going by the theory that the Night Elves were a tribe Dark Trolls who were mutated by the Well of Eternity, could Elune be one of their "gods" (Animal aspects, Hakkar, etc. - you know what I mean), and their perception of her was altered as they changed and years went by? Assuming that other Dark Troll tribes follow her as well, the fact that the presumably war-like and violent Shadowtooth Clan allied with the Night Elves willingly during the Battle of Mt. Hyjal makes more sense, having the same religion and what not. --Solbur (talk) 18:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Makes alot of sense, considering WCIII events and all that. I could see this as a possibility, considering alot of primitive cultures worship the moon. Hdrsa (talk) 19:30, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Zim'torga is very similar to elune--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:45, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Elune as a Naaru
The WoW Insider article was self-admitted theorycrafting and a photoshopped screenshot, NOT fact. It does not belong in the article. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:55, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or, in a video I often like to post... --Joshmaul (talk) 19:05, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Priest?
I realize she is a healer but isent a priest one who leads a religious group? And if she was a priest wouldent that mean she was worshipping herself? MoneygruberTheGoblin (talk contribs) 02:22, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's just an archtype in that Elune would use the same powers of a Priestess of the Moon, maybe even down to the same spells. She's not actually a priest - that indeed wouldn't make any sense. She was probably listed as a priest in an RPG book somewhere, just in-case she turned up in a pen-and-paper game o_O.--Weasel (talk) 03:51, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

She and Her
Is there any reason to capitalize "Her" and "She"?--LemonBaby (talk) 07:53, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I assume it's because she's a deity, and you tend to find 'he' capitalised in English refering to the Abrahamic god. However, I don't think there's any real need to capitalise it for Elune - the article isn't in-universe.Weasel (talk) 08:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Picture
Since the RPG is not canon, shouldn't the picture be removed from the infobox and moved down? Since, to my knowledge, there are no canonical illustrations of Elune, perhaps it's best to leave the infobox empty. - LucidFox (talk) 04:26, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Meh, better than nothing. A picture always helps with making an article more interesting and accessible reading material for visitors, which I'd say is our ultimate goal as editors. Arthakar (talk) 09:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * To retread this topic, as of Legion we now have the Val'sharah ending cinematic, which is the closest thing we have to a canonical depiction (ish) of Elune. Worth changing the infobox picture, perhaps? - Linneris (talk) 14:45, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Honestly, even if we keep the infobox, we should still have a picture of that somewhere on the page anyway. Xporc (talk) 14:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I am all for anything that gets rid of an RPG picture. I vote to have the moon image as the official depiction of Elune, since as you said, it's the closest thing to a canon depiction we have. -Cannibeans (talk) 16:59, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the "Elune, a Naaru?" bit
Any opinions on whether we should leave it in the Background section, or move it back to Speculations and theories? I'm torn on this--there's official commentary to cite from, but the whole thing is still speculative and open-ended at the moment. Arthakar (talk) 21:43, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, this section devolved into editors inventing justifications for and against this theory. I think the NPOV thing to do would be to remove all editor opinion from the article and just retain the description of the debate between Velen and Tyrande, verbatim. - LucidFox (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Speculation is unavoidable while official confirmation is pending. But I tried to ensure every view expressed is backed up by something Blizzardly, from the Ask a Dev postings to the official Warcraft Encyclopedia. The way I see it, we have two options: 1) Go with Zeratul's take, which translates to keeping all content but putting it squarely back in the Speculations and theories section, or 2) Lemonbaby's view, which means keeping it in the Background section but removing everything except for the first paragraph. I favor the first option, as we have dedicated speculation sections for a reason. Adding speculation/fan theory generally enriches the wiki as long as it's clearly marked as speculation.Arthakar (talk) 09:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's speculation. Even if it's "official" speculation, it's still speculation. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:52, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's in-universe speculation. Shouldn't it be treated as different to fan speculation? - LucidFox (talk) 04:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree, this section is too fan-influenced. What should be in a section is Valens visit, his opinion and Tyrandes reaction. Those are events that happened regarding Elune and had to be noted outside a speculation-section. After all, Valens visit isn't speculativ - it happened ;-) --LemonBaby (talk) 04:25, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Winter Queen
For what it's worth, we don't know whom exactly the Winter Queen called her sister. - Linneris (talk) 12:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Since it could also be referring to Eonar, but would be strange since Titans are supposed to go to the Arcane plane instead, I'll remove it until we know more. --Ryon21 (talk) 13:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * IMO it's actually probably referring to Eonar since Eonar is the one that made Ysera from a protodragon to a Dragon Aspect of Dreams ("she is OF my sister") and she can be considered one of the beings that the Titans and their keepers were playing with ("her pet"), and also the Pantheon of Death is parallel the Pantheon of Order as of right now. I'd probably just add one speculation section to the Winter Queen's page. 18:37, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * There's a good case to make for Eonar but it would be weird for her to be "sister" with a titan since they're not even remotely the same beings at all, nor have they the same origin. Unless we assume that each member of the Death pantheon as a "counterpart" (and thus "sister" is not meant quite literally) in another Pantheon, but that feels more like a stretch, at least right now, compared to Elune who has the benefit of having no backstory and thus could be the Winter Queen's sister.
 * There's also the fact that the Winter Queen essentially did the exact same thing that Elune did but backwards (Elune turned Ysera into stars, the Winter Queen turned the stars back into Ysera)- with even the music as a parallel between Elune's intervention and the Winter Queen's. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 18:40, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Which I think is what's going to happen, given the whole Elune-as-First-One chances. If every Pantheon is shaped by the First Ones, but different First Ones shaped different Pantheon members, then yes Eonar and Winter Queen and even possibly the Archon are all sisters by virtue of being Elune-shaped. So they would be almost literal sisters by virtue of being created by the same being/mother, with Cenarius and maybe even idk Golganneth (because Tides)/etc being their half brother and brother. 18:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I think the "First One" section has been left in an unsatisfactory state, since the First Ones page doesn't have a speculation section at all.--Kirotheone (talk) 21:01, 3 January 2021 (UTC)