Talk:Lordaeron

Old discussion
Where should I put the information then? Lordaeron is a part of the human forces. If your the humans, you are victorius. If you are the orcs, you destroy Lordaeron in the end. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 13:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's an accepted fact that lore-wise, the humans won WarCraft II, the orc ending is non-canonical (if anyone reading this DARES to use the term Flavor Lore, they're banned). See if you can slip it in on Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 13:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I know that is why I said that Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal uses the Human outcome of Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness as the right one. Okay I will try to put it on that page you suggested.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 15:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well actually there is a Lordaeron (WC2) section in the article. Its placement should probably moved towards the end (as such sections are in other articles), but its definitely the place to show alternate outcomes, and all uses of Lordaeron in Warcraft II.Baggins (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. Well I put it on the page Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness already so I guess if someone wants to copy it onto the page Kingdom of Lordaeron they know where to put it now.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 15:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well the problem with your previous addition to this topic as Ragestorm pointed out was that all you added was essentially the outcome to the game, and that you didn't even discuss Lordaeron. What you typed was more of an explanation of the game, or a rough explanation of Horde, and Alliance outcomes, than having anything to do with Lordaeron alone.Baggins (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ya I know. I didn't want to make it too long by mentioning all the forces of the Alliance so I just wrote Human Campaign.    Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25x25px]] ( talk  -  contr ) 16:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Azeroth = Lordaeron (past)
Lordaeron seems to have been named Azeroth previously. Lands of Conflict made a few references that imply that the continent of Lordaeron, before it was named that, was named Azeroth. This could be true since the kingdom of Lordaeron, and subsequently the continent of Lordaeron, came along much later in history than the start of the Empire of Arathor. This would also fit because a group left Stromgarde to create the kingdom of Azeroth further south and subsequently named that continent Azeroth, which by this time the northern continent would have been named Lordaeron after the kingdom of Lordaeron's rise and Arathor's decline in the more recent past. The group that left Stromagarde were heirs of King Thoradin and may have named their kingdom, and the new continent Azeroth, in honor of their past glory when the Empire of Arathor was the greatest force in all the known lands.
 * ...the Arathi assured them the land would always belong to all peoples and named the land as a whole in homage to their ancient ancestors: Azeroth."
 * ...some of the survivors had made their way to northern Azeroth and established a new kingdom, called Quel’Thalas...",
 * ...The humans, on the other hand, spent centuries expanding their borders until the Empire of Arathor nearly covered Azeroth.",

symbol
What is the symbol of loarderan cuz i have know clue -IloveWhitemane
 * It's a highly stylized L. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:28, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * In Warcraft II, it looks like it has an ankh through it (I thought so for some reason), but Arthas: Rise of the Lich King confirms it is a sword.-- 00:53, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

The Many Lordaerons
This page does not really make it clear that, as with Azeroth, Lordaeron means several things. It means both a city, a nation, and a continent. Now which comes first is a biot wierd, because why name a continent after one city state (the others would not think much of the idea), but if the continent was named first (land of the peacful people, or some such phrase) why would a new city, founded by nobles from strom, name itself after the landmass onwhich all the peoples of the kingdom of Arathor dwelt at the time. It makes little sence really, and i prefer to call the region Arathor for my own purposes, but as Lordaeron is Cannon, i think this fact should be made more clear on the page. gadget (talk) 01:33, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

take it back
why has the alliance done nothing to take it back and have excluted the people who are trying to (The scarlet cruaide) i side with the scarlet cruaide i want Lordaeron back lol User:IloveWhitemane
 * Because most of the land is likely inhospitable because of the Scourge, there are a bunch of dead people milling about the capital who wouldn't be too happy if you tried to take their relatively new home away from them, and even more dead people wandering around the wilderness. Also, I hate to be a spoilsport but you really ought to take this to the forums.  The staff might get a little cranky.  --Super Bhaal (talk) 02:36, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Picture
We need a picture of the city from when Medivh arrived. BobNamataki (talk) 11:27, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

File:Lordaeroncity.jpg already exists.. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 11:39, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Continent ≠ Kingdom
I don't know why the continent of Lordaeron is in the same article of the Kingdom of Lordaeron. The CONTINENT are the Eastern and Western plaguelands (Scourge), Tirisfal Glades and Silverpine Forest (Forsaken, Horde). The only place that the alliance control is Gilneas. The KINGDOM of Lordaeron was Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest, and the place around Stratholme, Andorhal,etc. But Alterac, Dalaran, Gilneas, etc wasn't part of Kingdom of Lordaeron. --Edhu9 (talk) 03:35, May 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * It could be split, but it may be a messy one based on the current layout of the page. The continent includes everything connected to the mass of land north of the Thandol Span (except sometimes Quel'Thalas). The kingdom was what is now Tirisfal Glades, the Western Plaguelands, the Eastern Plaguelands, Silverpine Forest, and Hillsbrad Foothills (minus Dalaran and Alterac).-- 03:50, May 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree it may be not that easy, but it is confusing that both terms are mixed in the same article. As you have stated, they include different areas; furthermore, they refer to different things. I think we should start thinking on how to split it.--Sega381 (talk) 01:39, May 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Was just wondering the same thing. Does anyonw have any good reason why the article shouldn't be split? Just giving people a chance to speak up now. 19:42, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed for a split, like Stormwind
 * 19:52, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that as they are different topics they should be moved into different articles. (Science765 (talk) 19:53, July 20, 2010 (UTC))

Will Lordareon be reestablised in Cataclysm?
Ive been wondering if in Cataclysm Lordareon will be restablished. Will it be a member of the Alliance in Cata or will it be under the control of Stormwind or under Stormwind military control or under control by the Alliance military. Or will it be a protectorate or colony of the Alliance or Stormwind? And will Lordaeron refugees their way back to Lordareon? And who will rule a possibly reborn Lordareon? Arthas sister or somebody else? And also since the nation of Theramoore is basically just a island a few military towers and one outpost and since the Alliance reclaimed part of Andorhall and some of Lordaerons territorty didnt fall to the Scourage and also the Alliance will probably reclaim more territory from the former western plaguelands by the time Cata is launched so I think the possible reborn Lordareon will have enough land to consitute a kingdom. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 03:13, July 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * The kingdom of Lordaeron is done. It's not coming back. The territory belongs to the Forsaken. And any remaining members are either with Stormwind or another human nation now. 04:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Edit
Hasn't a lot of content been lost with this edit? Like the table of leader, etc...

19:33, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I already replaced the zonebox with the old version (because Lordaeron is no longer a human kingdom), but the rest seemed to be just tightening up the text. If someone else feels it should be reverted, though, go for it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:41, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Leaders' table at least. I start reading the rest
 * 19:43, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Alliance territory? Really? ...
I quite strongly suggest sticking the "neutral" or "contested" marker over the info box, seeing as it is frankly misleading otherwise. The Alliance has become by and large one of the weakest forces within the dead kingdom of Lordaeron, which is highly contested between the Forsaken, the Argent Crusade, the Scourge remnants, the Scarlet Crusade, and then the Alliance.

I'm aware of how potent rose tinted goggles are, but it's not Alliance territory anymore. Lordaeron is the epitome of what it means to be "contested territory", with several factions completely unaffiliated with the Alliance or Horde also staking a claim to it. This has become glaringly obvious as of Cataclysm. Grissom (talk) 09:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This page isn't based exclusively on the status of the territory, nor is it based on the balance of power within the former nations territory. It also includes aspects of it such as history, lore, and role thus far in the storyline of the Warcraft universe. For the entirety of the time that the kingdom stood, it was an Alliance kingdom, and the actions done from the kingdom were in the name of the Alliance. If you wish to speak exclusively on the state of the territory, I suggest you make a new page for the continent rather than attempting to twist the article for the kingdom to fit your own perception of the lore. Fojar38 (talk) 22:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Continent and Kingdom Part 2
Shall I (or someone else) then fill in the pages like Lordaeron, Lordaeron (kingdom) ect. in stead of letting them redirect here? ( Luxor (t•c) 17:06, 4 April 2011 (UTC))


 * You can try.-- 18:55, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It definitely makes sense, even if it's not an easy task. A start could be made, and others can polish it up later. Deepred (talk) 09:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made a little stub for the continent page. Don't know if you guys think it's good enough to begin with. Here it is: User:Luxor/Lordaeron. I'll make an idea for Alliance|link=AllianceLuxor (t•c) 18:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC))
 * Not a bad start so far, the rest can be filled in and refined. Deepred (talk) 00:01, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've got the one for the kingdom. It's bigger, becouse this article is mainly about the kingdom. I just had to change some things and get Quel'Thalas and others out of the area section. Here it is: User:Luxor/Lordaeron (kingdom). ([[Image:Alliance 15.gif|Alliance|link=Alliance]]Luxor (t•c) 06:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC))
 * Can I place them both? ([[Image:Alliance 15.gif|Alliance|link=Alliance]]Luxor (t•c) 06:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC))
 * I think the time's right to commence the split. Maybe have the continent article as the main Lordaeron article, and the city/kingdom article as the secondary. Deepred (talk) 13:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So I gotta place the the continent on this page, and the kingdom on Luxor (t•c) 14:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC))
 * I'd say it makes sense. The city & kingdom are subsets of the region as a whole. Deepred (talk) 06:53, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There we go then! :D (Luxor (t•c) 07:53, 5 May 2011 (UTC))

Remove the flag?

 * Moved to Talk:Lordaeron (kingdom)

Rulers
Ugh. Well let's get this over with. State your reasoning for whatever you want.  (talk contribs) 21:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

But still, Varian is ruling in Lordaeron to what?--Mordecay (talk) 21:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * He isn't. It's like adding Garrosh for the orcs there. But someone I wont name loves the Alliance. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Stop adding him. His domain is Azeroth not Lordaeron. Im sick of edit warring with you. Revert it yourself. Genn Greymane however...[[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The people of Hillsbrad, many of whom are still alive after imbibing Worgen blood, pledged themselves to Stormwind and its King all the way back in Vanilla. Furthermore, the Alliance still controls everything south of Andorhal in the Western Plaguelands, and with death of Galen Trollbane in Arathi, he is the highest ranking individual with influence there as well. Combined with Varian's control over the 7th Legion in Gilneas and I'd say he has more than enough influence to warrant him being listed as a ruler, certainly more than Crowley. Fojar38 (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Source?--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:26, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello, Ashbear. Anyway if your going to insist on adding Varian also put Garrosh and Genn. Garrosh functions the same way. Genn is just an important ruler. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Ashbear has a good point. Cite this stuff more.-- 21:30, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * For Hillsbrad: Hillsbrad_Town_Registry
 * For Gilneas: Orders_from_High_Command
 * For WPL: Alas, Andorhal (quest)
 * For Arathi: Hero's Call: Arathi Highlands!
 * Garrosh doesn't directly control any land in Lordaeron, and Greymane seems to have deferred to Crowley and Varian with regards to Gilneas. Fojar38 (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Orcs control a few towns in the area. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Varian is the ruler of Stormwind. He is not the ruler of the Alliance. Just because the Alliance holds territory doesn't make Varian its ruler. Now, to points:
 * "Everything south of Andorhal in the Western Plaguelands" is just a small camp and a graveyard.
 * Just because the ruling family of Stromgarde is dead doesn't mean Arathi defaults to Varian.
 * The 7th Legion is fighting in Gilneas, but they don't live there.
 * I would agree that Crowley shouldn't be listed as a ruler either, though I would replace him with Genn Greymane. Despite Gilneas's clearly contested status, Genn still nominally rules it at the very least.
 * I would also add Falstad Wildhammer, as ruler of Aerie Peak. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * When the territory is controlled by Varian's forces who answer directly to Varian, it does effectively make him its ruler. As for rebuttal...
 * The territory controlled in WPL included several permanent dwellings as well as a military outpost.
 * The original description text for Arathi Basin said that the players were there fighting on the behalf of their benefactors in Stormwind, which at this point in time would be Varian.
 * Granted, but many of them were from Lordaeron on account of the fact that the 7th Legion is made up of Hyjal veterans.
 * There is also the matter of the people of Hillsbrad who explicitly pledged loyalty to Stormwind. Fojar38 (talk) 21:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Heres a good reason why he's not a ruler. He has no right to that land and it's never said he rules. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Except it says that he does in the Hillsbrad registry. Furthermore, Sylvanas has no right to the lands she controls either, yet she's up there. Fojar38 (talk) 21:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In case you haven't noticed. Sludge Fields. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:57, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also. A little camp doesn't count. If it did we would have to include Garrosh. Sylvanas conquered her lands so she rules the Forsaken. Funny how you only argue against the Horde as if you only cared for Alliance. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * With regards to Hammerfall, is there any source that says that it is controlled specifically by Garrosh? Because it seems equally possible that its controlled by the Defilers, who answer to Sylvanas. And why doesn't a camp count? Fojar38 (talk) 22:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's an orcish camp filled with orcs. I don't feel he should be listed, but I was making a point. Why doesn't a camp count? It's a very small camp and the only territory owned there infact it's implied in a quest they will loose even that soon. Hell, Mug'thol owns an entire city. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yea most certainly Falstad. He's in Ironforge but he's still calling the shots for Wildhammers. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 21:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Being controlled by the military doesn't imply sovereignty
 * They pledged alliance to anduin AND magni, which none of them is a ruler right now, so it defaults to next rulers Varian AND the council of the three hammer.
 * This article is confusing too...--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you're arguing here.
 * They pledged to the Alliance, naming Anduin and Magni by name. Them dying doesn't suddenly mean that the people of Hillsbrad are no longer pledged to the respective kingdoms. Hereditary monarchy doesn't work like that. Fojar38 (talk) 22:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * But he no longer owns land. Correct? [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering we know that many Hillsbrad citizens are still alive having taken the Worgen curse upon themselves, and we know that they still maintain a guerilla presence in Hillsbrad even after questin, I don't see what the difference is. Besides, there's still the matter of Western Plaguelands. Fojar38 (talk) 22:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * To be a ruler you kinda need to. Rule land. Besides doesn't it strike you more that they joined Crowley's forces? A small war camp doesn't count. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Just because there are still surviving Hillsbrad citizens doesn't mean Varian still rules Hillsbrad. The Forsaken control it. That there are some citizens who consider themselves under Varian's rule residing there doesn't make Varian the ruler of their hideout. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * @MoneyGruber, you still need to explain why Chillwind Camp and souther WPL don't count.
 * @Zeratul, Varian doesn't rule all of Hillsbrad. The Alliance hasn't controlled all of Hillsbrad since the Third War. But the people of Hillsbrad still maintain a presence there even after Forsaken questing, on Purgation Isle and around the Ruins of Southshore. In that sense there's no difference between the current situation and what it was before Cataclysm. Fojar38 (talk) 22:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Im done trying to justify why it's not righ to list a small camp as a reason that they are rulers. That little isle was killed off. Theres no other signs of Alliance life. Good day. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:41, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't "killed off." In fact, the only quests that deal with it are stealing some attack plans followed by beating a hasty retreat. Fojar38 (talk) 22:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Orkus removed of them. also, no actual property was there. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 22:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Orkus and the player kill some Worgen and Stormpikes there, but there's nothing to suggest that the presence was entirely removed, and what do you mean by "no actual property was there?" Fojar38 (talk) 23:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * So since there are Blackrock orcs in Elwynn, does that mean we should list Rend Blackhand as a ruler? After all, Rend rules the Blackrock Clan, and they've pretty well taken over that little orchard there. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * That's different. In the case of Elwynn Forest, the player kills the Blackrock spies, mercenaries, worgs, puts out all the fires, massacres their standing troops in Northshire and then beheads their leader. Far different from killing a few mobs and then stealing a map before retreating like what happened on Purgation Isle. Fojar38 (talk) 23:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I killed them all, saw none left in my sight. If you think it's different you really are bias. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 23:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Following Purgation Isle's quest, You don't kill everybody. Bloodfang, Stormpike, and Belinda are very clearly alive. You also very clearly see Bloodfang still present in Southshore, As well as Stormpike. All together? This means that you wiped out the present forces on the Isle. Not everyone of the force. The Bloodfang made the isle their forward base, You raided it. Nothing's stopping them from returning. It still counts. Now back onto the topic at hand, With Gilneas under Alliance control (Military occupation or not.), and Gilneas' forces reporting to Genn Greymane their king who has sworn fealty to the Alliance once more, It'd still be Genn as a ruler. Crowley is like a General out there, He's Genn's version of Wyrmbane for Varian in a very loose sense. He'd be marked as the ruler, not Crowley. And if we're going to pull the "Varian is high king" card, That means every single alliance zone should have Varian marked as the Ruler, and Garrosh for all Horde zones since they're the Leader of their factions.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 23:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems most of us can agree Varian doesn't belong here. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 23:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Pretty much. It should be: Falstad Wildhammer (Even though he is in Ironforge, he is still High Thane of the Wildhammer Clan), Genn Greymane (Even though Darius is out on the field in his stead, Genn still leads the Gilneans and as such is the leader of their forces), and Henry Maleb (Hillsbrad Worgen. Doesn't matter if they pledged loyalty to the Alliance, Maleb was leading them and continues to do so. He's allied with the Gilnean worgen. Same race =/= same leader.). Varian is out of place due to there being no Stormwind kingdom holdings. They're of other kingdoms or alliance holdings in the general sense. And Darius is, as I said, leader of a Military group, A general. A commander. Like Wyrmbane, He's not a ruler since he reports back to Genn.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 23:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Wildhammer and Genn yes. But Henry is in a similar position to Crowley. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Debatable. Senator Henry Maleb was appointed back when Hillsbrad was under Lordaeron's control (The Kingdom). He retained his position when Lordaeron became defunct and the remnants were taken into the Alliance fold. As he'd answer to the King/Queen of Lordaeron, they'd be marked as the ruler. However, since that position is unfilled, he'd be the one people would answer to for that region as there is no actual "Ruler" for the remaining Lordaeron holdings. The only one I'd say that could work is Calia Menethil, but she's currently MIA. I'd also like to point out that Aerie Peak should be a major settlement, not a minor one.. It's the bloody capital of the Wildhammers in that region, It's pretty important.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 00:04, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Probably. depends how much you can judge in- game size. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:10, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, though, Maleb is still just "ruling" a small band of refugees. I'm not really sure that's enough to credit him as one of the rulers of the Lordaeron continent, any more than I'd advocate crediting Commander Amaren as the leader of Refuge Pointe. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:20, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If Danath is the legit ruler. He could be listed. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:21, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly, we won't know until Blizzard continues his storyline. In the meantime, I'd leave him off, as we have no indication that he's returned to reclaim his kingdom. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I need to fix some things then. It's written everywhere that he did. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Should probably take the blood elves off the rulers list; they have enough of an odd presence here and there to warrant a mention on the "races" list, but they've never ruled anything beyond Quel'Thalas... which is its own country, independent of Lordaeron and its current "rendition" with the Forsaken. I'd replace Theron with Galen Trollbane. Grissom (talk) 00:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * In many cases Quel'thalas is part of Lordaeron. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:52, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Eh, fair enough; I always assumed it was too far removed (and too far north) to have any geographical link to it aside from "neighbour." Grissom (talk) 00:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yea, Blizard's geography doesn't always make much sense. Especially since these should all be called sub-continents. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:58, 8 March 2012 (UTC)