Talk:Yogg-Saron

Wotlk Template
This IS an Old God but should he be considered a major wotlk article? From my understanding the template isn't supposed to be used on possible bosses or major lore characters even if they don't appear prior to WoTLK, correct me if i'm wrong.
 * Perhaps we should wait for a possible Nerubian Raid where this being could be a boss. And then decide again. --Afaslizo (talk) 15:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * By now he's only mentioned on WOTLK quests and also is somehow linked to some resources of northrends. Althrough, he is an old god indeed...--Azahel 19:52, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can accept your reasonings and i'm new enough to the wiki to not mercilessly edit everything i don't agree with, but even raid bosses arent part of "Major wotlk articles" the way i see it. Amirw (talk) 20:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Credits
There's a beast in the credits that might be him... -- 10:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Any pics of said beast? Put it in my talk page, interested to check it out. :) Amirw (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Finally got a picture of him, beast with a thousand maws (hideous!):



-- 20:31, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks more like a normal undead than an old god for me Azahel (talk) 08:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Where did you find this, and are you certain it is really Yogg-Saron? [[Image:INV Misc Orb 04.png|20px]] Xavius, the Satyr Lord  14:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

In the MPQ it is called MaginnisTGC. my guess is it is a Icecrown undead boss. Leviathon (talk) 04:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Almost sounds like Mal'Ganis. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 13:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

This was just a random undead image from the Wrath of the Lich King art book from the Collector's Edition. It's not Yogg-Saron, just some pointless abomination that didn't make it in the game. -Mykael Mourningsun


 * Until patch 3.3.0: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/october/boss_10596_1.jpg -- 09:18, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks like Rotface to me and apperantly A'noob. BobNamataki (talk) 10:45, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Art



 * That's a flying spaghetti monster :P --Kinkku (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I put much faith that we'll see something like this spaghetti monster on wow, as c'thun had at last some remembrace of cthulhu, both from books by H.P Lovecraft on wich many namesfrom World of Warcraft are based. We can also expect him to be something like a "form of a conglomeration of glowing bubbles/a congeries of iridescent globes" also mentioned on the book "The Horror in the Museum - H.P Lovecraft". Azahel (talk) 08:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * C'thun resembled nothing like Cthulu... Cthulu is reptilian humanoid with a squid-head, and wings. He was not a wriggling orifice or an eyeball...Baggins (talk) 19:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm talking about his head... and forget the eye Azahel (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry even if we talk about Cthulu's head, they don't even closely resemble each other... Cthulu's head was a squid. The nautilus-like skull in the Master's Glaive is somewhat closer to Cthulu, but even that's a stretch...


 * Cthun looks more like Mantorok from Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem that is manipulating the main characters in order to destroy the various elder gods in the game... Perhaps vaguely towards the description given for Lovecraft Mythos creature Azathoth. Perhaps a little bit of Shub-Niggurath too...Baggins (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with Baggins; C'thun looks nothing like Cthulhu. If anything he more resembles this species of Alien Intelligences i read about in an RPG book, which were known as the Splugorth; basically a huge mountain of flesh covered with tentacles, mouths and eyeballs.  JPlowman2 (talk) 03:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * well, he still have a head that's a weird thing with tentacles, and he gives u a weird feeling when u get on his chamber and see taht... thing...

anyway, this is not about the article anymore, and JPlowman2l i moved ur post here, it should be the last one to keep the order Azahel (talk) 06:31, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that HP Lovecraft gave no clear description as to what these gods looked like. And even when he did, they were far to vague. It was about his fear of the unknown. BobNamataki (talk) 10:51, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Forgotten one??
I know no one took the information out of nowhere but, is the source really reliable? Illidan easily released an old god that couldn't do the same even with his incredible power and the later is then defeated by arthas who now as the lich king keeps him under the control of the scourge? I'm starting to think that he's not one of the old gods "darker than even the lord of the burning legion" Azahel (talk) 00:37, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Arthas doesn't control Yogg-Saron. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 00:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

" the Twilight's Hammer might be interested in the Old god Yogg-Saron that the Lich King holds prisoner." "released by Illidan's recently caused earthquakes... ...As they fought their way through, they soon encountered the monster who Anub'arak called "A forgotten one". " "The Old god Yogg-Saron is the Forgotten One that King Arthas the Death Knight fought alongside Anub'arak in the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne Undead Campaign Chapter 7." Azahel (talk) 00:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The information about Arthas holding Yogg-Saron prisoner was taken from Blizzplanet, and while they are ussualy reliable i didnt saw it being cited from any official source in itself. As for him being released, it was not from the Lich King's control but rather from whatever imprisoning enchantments the Titans casted on him, which Illidan's havoc on the earth partially destabilized. If he would have fully released Yogg-Saron, it is probable that Arthas, Anub'arak and whatever number of crypt fiends that were accompanying them would have perished, along with a world or two. Just for reference, it is a common theme for lesser races (or single beings in illidan's case) to allow Old Gods influence to seep, such as in the Trogg case, the Well of Eternity incident from the War of The Ancients trilogy, C'thun's growing might under silithid protection, etc etc. Amirw (talk) 13:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Amirw. While Blizzplanet is usually a reliable source, that doesn't mean it's gonna be 100% official, 100% of the time. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 14:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Toran: No source is ever 100% correct, 100% of the time. Including Blizzard, including the Star Ledger, including the BBC - seriously. Example: Blizzard saying they won't do PVE to PVP transfers. AND BOOM! We got PVE to PVP transfers now. I consider Blizzplanet reliable in this scenario and won't think otherwise till further proof or evidence is brought to the table. FieryAxel (Talk) 11:21, 14 September 2008 (ETC)

Ever heard of an expression? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

No. FieryAxel (Talk) 11:28, 14 September 2008 (ETC)


 * No one's gonna tell you who to trust FieryaAxel, but considering ample evidence for Old Gods being stronger then anything the Lich King should be able to handle, i'd stick with my assumaption that the top "imprisonment" Arthas is doing can be summerised in stopping Yogg-Saron's nerubian followers. Feel free to elaborate why you disagree if you wish though. Amirw (talk) 17:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * well, that's all the information we have, but I still think that he wasn't the forgotten one on TFT Azahel (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me? I was just saying you shouldn't say a source is unreliable because its unreliable - it makes no sense. FieryAxel (Talk) 23:36, 14 September 2008 (ETC)


 * If you go by Anub'arak's comment in TFT, and later lore in the rpg, the forgotten one that Arthas fought was just one of many forgotten ones living under Nothrend. The fact is they are dangerous creatures but that doesn't make them all 'old gods'.


 * Finally FieryAxel you should know better... We only allow verified official sources to be cited, and listed as official information. Fan websites are always questioned (if they are referenced they must have citations to official sources). Also info from them generally only appear as notes, or speculation sections. They must never be cited as primary citations.Baggins (talk) 00:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Now that's more like it. It may be true, one day, but we can't say it now. Azahel (talk) 00:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression via Toran's response that the reason why the source is faulty, is because "no source is reliable 100% of the time" - which is no reason to claim a source is unreliable. As I said even the BBC gets things wrong, even Reuters, even Blizzard. I did not attempt to argue lore, I did not attempt to argue facts. I argued unlogical reasons. Please don't putted me in the middle of this, I want nothing to do with this. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was. FieryAxel (Talk) 24:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * No, don't take itwrong, he was just explaining to you, just as you did when you said your opinion, if we did not understand what you meant before, we got it now. Anyway, talk pages are to talk about the content, so let's stick on it. Azahel (talk) 01:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I guess, this concludes our little talk... yogg-saron is imprisioned beneath Ulduar as expected,although his influence extends to far away places like icecrown where you can see his blood, the saronite, flowing from the walls on the saronite mine. that said, there is still a possibility that we will be involved with more of his servants, probably a second atempt to release him as a first one would fail due to our intervention. but, he was not a forgotten one lurking freely on the old kingdon. Azahel (talk) 17:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Speculation...NOT!
he is THE forgotten one, blizzplanet has confirmed this, so do not make it "speculation", /sigh...Noobi666 (talk) 12:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It says, I quote: "The Old god Yogg-Saron is the Forgotten One that King Arthas the Death Knight fought alongside Anub'arak in the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne Undead Campaign Chapter 7." There are NO facts AT ALL from Blizzplanet that this is the truth, other than their word. I'd like to see some reference on it. 12:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Gourra speaks the truth. Blizzplanet is not Blizzard, and with no source for this bit of info we can't claim that it's anything other than speculation at this point. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Though "awesome", they are not infallible.-- 22:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Blizzplanet while an awesome site, is a secondary(interviews) or third party source. It is not a primary source.Baggins (talk) 22:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

And as said be4.. i dont belive Arthas and Anub'arak and some few undead were able to bring down an old god

Whispers - can't hear them
I've never heard his whispers in the Howling Fjord. I play Horde and have already finished all quests there. What's wrong? -- 20:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * They're only in the cave just to the north of Westguard Keep full of the crazed miners (Whisper Gulch). I don't think any Horde quests are down there. -- k _d3 20:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sweet KD3! -- 22:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

futurama reference?
In a Futurama episode/movie thing a main character is a super-powerful universe-like creature called the "beast with a thousand backs" named Yivo, which I realize sounds very similar to our Old God here. Could this be on purpose or am I trying to hard to make a connection? Thoughts are welcome Seacow42 (talk) 03:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't it beast with a billion backs? Anyway, not likely. The Futurama movie/episode thingamashosits is based on "the beast with two backs", a sexual reference. Beast with a Thousand Maws sounds more like a generic nightmarish term for an infernal god (see the Inspiration section on the page for a specific example)-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * More likely that both reference to Shub-Niggurath, "the goat with a thousand young", which is of course already mentioned on the article page. Also, there are many other "[beasts] with a thousand [something]" in pop culture, but Lovecraft's old god was probably the oldest reference, or at least the only one that survived its decade of creation. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 10:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * alright that's cool, I was just wondering :D Seacow42 (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yogg-Saron in Ulduar raid (3.1)
Pcj, you edited the article to mention that Yogg-Saron would appear in Ulduar as the final boss, but your source does not state that anywhere at all. The only mention of the "old god" is that he lies beneath Ulduar, "whispering". Would've reverted this right away if it was added by some random editor. Please, elaborate how you read that Yogg-Saron will definitely be an encounter, or even the boss of Ulduar (instance). I can only imagine skirmishs against tentacles or other parts of his body, but no actual defeat. The final boss will imho be something Iron Dwarf/Vrykul or corrupted-Titan-related, the forces that seek to free Yogg-Saron and which are mentioned often in the official article. The players will merely prevent them, keeping up the status quo. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 18:56, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Very true, I read a little bit into it. While I still disagree with you about the final boss still, it may not be Yogg-Saron. -- 19:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well this announcement is exciting, so I forgive you Yeah it might be possible, but considering the fact that we can't kill the old gods without destroying Azeroth* and that a 'copy' of the C'thun fight (poke his eye so that he retreats to lick his wounds) would sound to unoriginal, I'm sticking with my theory.  *  don't know about killing a single one, though - then again they already retconned Ulduar's purpose a bit to make it an all-out prison mechanism, instead of a "normal" Titan structure built on top of the prison.  ~ Nathanyel (talk) 19:16, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Considering C'Thun died then it seems pretty likely we will kill Yogg-Saron. It also could of meant that killing them all would of been bad for the planet or maybe the Titans were just wrong (maybe the Old Gods were able to effect even them a bit and put it in their heads that killing them is bad). But while he isn't named in the preview I think it is a pretty much given that he will be the final encounter. Leviathon (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "Considering C'Thun died" ARE YOU SURE MORTAL ? xD
 * Remember the Evil Prince who said : "Doesn't anyone stay dead anymore ?" Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 19:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Yea the comic is pretty sure he is dead. (the comic even shows his corpsew near Cho'gall). Course I guess we will find out what Cho'gall is doing around C'Thun. Leviathon (talk) 19:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * well, you cant even think about killing an old god, he is strong enough to obliterate the horde, the alliance, the scourge and murlocs. he could almost kill Hogger! i do think we will be on a rush to prevent his servants from setting him free and hopefully we mau fight a lot of his faceless ones, maybe the "optional hard mode boss" will be a forgotten one?!!?!
 * anyway, i wouldnt hurry to place him as a boss, the best we can hope is another kil'jaeden-like encounter Azahel (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoa whoa Spoiler! Thanks -.- Nathanyel (talk) 12:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't call that a spoiler, more like what he expects to get from the boss fight. Nobody even knows how the fight is. 13:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I meant the mentioning of Cho'gall appearing in the comic - well, I read that preview only a few minutes later, anyway ~ Nathanyel (talk) 17:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait a minute, wasn't said if one old god dies it would affect whole azeroth? How can he be dead with no side-effect? retcon anyone? Pudim17 (talk - contr) 19:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * nobody said he will be dead, i dont even think this could ever happen, even if some really powerfull allied fights by our side. the battle between old gods and the titans took ages, is not a some-hours-raid that will finish him. i think we'll fight to keep him where he is Azahel (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm talking about C'thun, the last comic say he is dead. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 19:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It was only said if Yogg-Saron dies then it would affect Azeroth. There has been no talk of Old Gods in general or C'Thun. 22:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

c'thun was defeated on the war against the panteon, he only remained alive because they thought he was dead. i dont think he would endanger azeroth with his dismiss. but no retcannon was shoted Azahel (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

How do we know the comic is right anyway? The bit where it says C'thun is dead would be from the characters point of view. They might believe him to be dead, but instead he could be hiding somewhere, waiting to regain his powers. It's happened before that he's been presumed deceased, only for the presumption to prove wrong. 23:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well you see his dead body in the image with Cho'gall. Now sure they can just be assuming he is dead. Leviathon (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * It could still be just an avatar or a limb that we severed, while the rest of the body still lies beneath Ahn'Qiraj. I second the thought that "dead" is from the comic's characters point of view. What I do find weird though, is that the raid (taking the AQ War background, probably a joint effort of Horde and Alliance forces) that killed him just left him there, instead of putting up guards or burning what was left there, so that he couldn't be raised again or made into evil talismans etc. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 00:54, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree, the dead isn't from characters point of view, reread the preview and you will see that the narrator is the one that tell it. So it is obviously true that he is dead. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 02:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * But if you think about the narrator as another character then he only knows what he's been told. It's not as if he was present in C'thuns mind at the moment of "death" and was able to experience the life force being extinguished. I can think of many other comics where what the narrator says and what later happens are completely at odds. 10:24, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We will probably find out how dead he is in the comic depending on whatever Cho'gall is doing. Leviathon (talk) 12:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Why is this even discussed on this talk page? It should be here. 12:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Consider it an... excourse We are discussing the contradiction of "Excising parasites would result in loss of host." to the comic saying that C'Thun is "dead" and relevant to the killability of Yogg-Saron. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 13:01, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * But if you think about the narrator as another character then he only knows what he's been told.-User:Jormungand01
 * Ok, then are you telling that the manual of Warcraft III could be wrong because we can think that the narrator is other character, also we can think that the story of the official site could be wrong because the narrator could be other character, that the books are wrong because the narrator could be another character... I think that doesn't work that way. What I think is that if something it's told, not by a character (like Brann or an NPC) but by a narrator (like the RPGs that aren't narrated by Brann or the stories of the official site (like the troll compendium)) are obviously right. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 18:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry Jormungand, but Benito's right. There's nothing to suggest that the narrator is anything but an omniscient voice. Saying "he might be another character so he might be wrong" is a slippery slope that would effectively throw out every single piece of lore in the game. Unless we find out otherwise, C'thun's dead. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:55, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * At Least for now he is. I get the feeling that Old Gods have a tendancy to not stay dead.Drpancake

I am thinking it could be possible that the Old Gods when they realized they couldn't kill the Titans just decided to do what they did to Loken and put into their heads that they couldn't be killed. Leviathon (talk) 20:36, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually the war was between the titans and old gods and their armies. As flesh is weaker than minerals they created this curse of flesh that eventually affected the titan's armies to make it easier for them to defeat the titans. This so called curse was spread in such a way that if the old gods were dead the life on azeroth would cease to be. But if they killed (or thought so) C'thun is because they knew he could be killed with no major problems, the same happens to the other old god dead in Darkshore. If they imprisioned the other 3 is because those 3 couldn't be killed especially because that would destroy Azeroth. But one thing is true, the old gods were there on the war and they know that the titans didnt have the power or the guts to kill all them. If the old gods could make the titans think they couldnt kill their enemies, they would have used this same power to bring them to their side or make them just give up on Azeroth. Azahel (talk) 20:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I still don't agree with the "C'thun is dead" bit, but I see I'm not going to win this argument. 19:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Well it is confirmed he is going to be in Ulduar. In the files we have his giant mouth, tentacles and his brain. Leviathon (talk) 06:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * wait wait wait.... i hope they really put all that together in a good fashion... because it looks like he have a face! what a mood killer!! ofc he does have a lot of maws but still a face, i hoped for something like c'thun.... anyway, back to the subject... he have a lot of mounths, cthun have a lot of eyes, i wonder if the other 2 have a lot of noses and ears... o_o Azahel (talk) 16:46, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I still don't believe we're gonna kill him... probably various encounters with those tentacles, and/or a full-blown encounter where we drive him back, until some Titan safety mechanism works again etc. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 18:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree.... speaking of what... the page really does need some update... i don't have much time now so, somebody? Azahel (talk) 18:59, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * We will probably find out Yogg-Sarons fate in the next few builds. Right now his model is incomplete with no animations and there are no voiceovers for anything in the instance yet. Leviathon (talk) 21:45, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, think about it. Yogg-Saron is from we've seen all maws. C'Thun was all eyes and a stomach. Doesn't it seem possible that they are the same or at least part of the same being? C'Thun was the eye and stomach while Yogg seems to be the mouth/brain. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * Perhaps. It would be an odd twist, but C'Thun had a few mouths of his own.-- 23:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

In the latest PTR patch Yogg-Saron had his animations added. It seems he drowns in the Saronite pool he is in as his death animation. So he indeed will die. Leviathon (talk) 05:02, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * does he leave a corpse like C'thun? Kil'jaeden also had a death animation, all the bosses do, doesn't mean they are indeed dying. Azahel (talk) 06:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes it is him floating in the Saronite pool dead. I'd imagine it will get explained a bit by Brann (since he will be in the instance) or even the Watchers why the Old Gods can die. Leviathon (talk) 08:33, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Dead? He could simply be unconscious. It would look exactly the same. --JarHed (talk) 15:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

He could be rendered incapacitated too. As we have also seen in Ice Crown in the saronite pool, that could be part of him. There is a mouth at the bottom of the water. What we kill within Ulduar might just be part of him. Old gods are massive beings. I don't see why people can't comprehend we may only be killing a part of them --

His physical form is killed judging by the fact that you rebuild Vala'nyr out of the saronite in his corpse. Leviathon (talk) 23:07, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It sounds to me as if you just have to stick the unfinished weapon into a wound to cover it with his acidic blood. Whether you can do that while he/the part of his body we fight is still moving or if it has to be slain, well... I still support the "we 'kill' only a part of him". Ants can draw blood from a severed limb, but that doesn't mean the body that formerly sported that limb is dead. ~ Nathanyel (talk)


 * for those who have watched the blizzcast 7 it is clear at this point that yogg-saron wont be really defeated nor his plans will suffer any delay in ulduar. it looks like the old gods are behing the lich king, the emerald nightmare, the nexus war and the infinite dragonflight. i would say our victory on ulduar is just another part of their plan, we are all pawns on a greater plan Azahel (talk) 18:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * What would Blizzcast 7 have to do with whether he dies or not. They only said that the story of the Old Gods won't end with him which is true considering there are at least 2 more Old Gods with 1 causing the Nightmare and another in the Maelstrom. Wanting to say Yogg-Saron isn't going to die is grasping at straws for any reason why he can't/won't die. Leviathon (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It would be all but impossible for players to kill him, if the presumptions on his size are correct. And if it weren't for his probably being a boss in Ulduar then I wouldn't expect him to be able to be hurt at all either. For a being the size of Northrend a sword wouldn't be long enough to penetrate his skin, which when scaling up could be up to a mile thick, and most spells would not even be noticed. Even if we somehow managed to get inside then finding a vital organ to attack could take years.


 * And yet chances are we are either going to kill him or injure him badly enough to put him out of action for a while. Only solution I can think of is if he isn't actually that big, but simply has a very large lair, which is why he can affect the whole of Northrend. 16:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Have some links for yogg saron here The encounter chamber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oh3yQeNotI&feature=channel_page Yogg Saron quotes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Pht3iRq8Y&feature=related The encounter will be insane Bundgaard (talk) 11:21, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Old gos are uber
killing their physical ofrm doesnt mean they are entirely dead. they are, indeed, gods Noobi666 (talk) 09:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

OFC they are! anyway, do we really need a reference for every single quote of him? cmon! Azahel (talk) 09:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it looks very exaggerated. [[Image:INV Misc Orb 04.png|20px]] Xavius, the Satyr Lord  13:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

sorry.Noobi666 (talk) 18:07, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Ulduar raid sub-zone "The Prison of Yogg-Saron"
MMO Champion has updated their newspost on Ulduar with screenshots from people testing the raid out. One of the subzones in the raid is called "The Prison of Yogg-Saron". Pretty concrete proof that he's going to show up in Ulduar. Screenshot can be found here Koletha (talk) 03:15, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

In the middle of the wings (one of which goes down there) you can look down and see his prison and the shards of the top part floating in the air. Leviathon (talk) 05:09, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Here are the areas of Ulduar:
 * The Archivum
 * The Conservatory of Life
 * Iron Concourse
 * The Colossal Forge
 * Formation Grounds
 * The Scrapyard
 * Razorscale's Aerie
 * Expedition Base Camp


 * -- 08:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

But the prison is empty and its ethereal chains broken thus we are going to battle Yogg-Saron elsewhere. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 14:11, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The chains are broken since he is free and he isn't there since only the bosses that are activated are spawned. It is also shown that he comes OUT of that Saronite pool to fight you by his animations so you we won't see anything till we enter his prison. Leviathon (talk) 19:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think too that that floor is made of Saronite and not ice as I read somewhere. Is saronite that cristals all around Ulduar (eg through the broken stained glass windows)? --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 19:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yea the entire area before Yogg-Saron has saronite popping out everywhere. Leviathon (talk) 19:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Thus saronite is some kind of secretion of the Old God, some kind of spittle as its shape suggests that with time changes its color from turquoise to black (Icecrown Citadel is made up of Saronite) --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 19:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's already known Saronite is Yogg-Sarons blood. Course I guess it may not have meant it literally is his blood. Leviathon (talk) 21:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm waiting to put up a tactics page because of the DNP on unreleased content... I would think it's as obvious now with the map, the lore, and the voices included in the last patch that he is going to be confirmed as an encounter. Does the DNP still apply? -- 20:31, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you actually HEAR his whispers
i mean, can you actually hear them like Cthuns ones, or just read them? Noobi666 (talk) 18:08, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there's audio, it's just much quieter than C'thun. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:56, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Yogg-Saron and Matthias Lehner Related?
I wasn't Sure whether to keep this in just the Matthias Lehner talk, or to put it here, since it seems to be very related to both. It makes no sense, as far as I can see, for Matthias Lehner to be a manifestation or Arthas' Humanity or whatever. An illusion, that only you can see, that you find in an Old God controlled Territory, that leads you to cripple the Lich King, and destroy his innocence, is an "incarnation of Arthas' Innocence"? Considering that the Old Gods' favorite tools are mental control and illusion to get their opponents to kill each other? And who, of anybody, would know that the blood of Faceless ones would protect you from Arthas' Sight? During the Yogg-Saron Fight(Judged by Sound Files on the PTR), he displays many examples of Old God Interference in the past, then says that you are no more likely to defeat the gods then Malygos/Deathwing/Llane/Ect. Then he shows you an encounter of the Lich King Torturing somebody, which will probably be revealed when more then just SoundFiles are available.(Possibly the same person that Alexstrasza refers to at the wrath gate) Yogg-Saron also has a nack for using Children... Throughout Ulduar you are guided by an illusion of his named "Sara" Does it not make sense that Matthias Lehner is an illusion of Yogg-Saron used to allow you to cripple an adversary, The Lich King, by hand guiding you through a process to destroy his heart?Drpancake 06:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you, Drpancake, are an illusion of the Lich King destined to draw us on Yogg-saron, so you'll have time to prepare defense for our upcoming raids on your citadel, after we nuked Y-S ! xD. Good theory anyway. Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 13:50, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Matthias Lehner actually wants us to help him (as Arthas' "good side") regain some power over the whole entity, how that questline ended probably wasn't his plan at all. Also, isn't Sara a grown-up woman? The sound files sounded that way. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 18:13, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Extremely Unlikely that he did not intend for the result to happen, given that he commands you to bring friends to destroy the heart...See this quest. Drpancake

Yogg-Saron's Picture has been found!
It's finally happened; someone has found a picture of what Yogg-Saron is going to look like, and its awesome; if what they say is right, C'Thun is puny compared to this guy. Somebody see if they can post it in the article JPlowman2 (talk) 4:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Not until Yogg-Saron has been seen in-game (per WP:DNP). -- 04:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's been found, uploaded and deleted several times, since the 3.1 PTR came out JPlowman2. 05:18, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Isn't the one on MMO-Champion the confirmed one? Or to make sure information is as accurate as possible are we waiting to see his actual in-game model?
 * Body: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/yoggsaron_2.jpg
 * Brain:   http://www.spooncraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/yoggsaron_brain.jpg ::jclipps (talk) 05:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * He doesn't have a thousand maws. I demand more maws. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 05:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Unbelievable ! Silly we ! We did not trust the Dataminers ! We deserve punishment !
 * Please go to Hell with that two-months old picture until someone pulled Yogg-Saron in-game.
 * Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

WoWHead has a better picture of Yogg-Saron: http://static.wowhead.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/127801.jpg Orisai (talk) 03:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, silly you A'noob! Unbelievable as it might seem, they actually pulled the correct picture!! ZOMGWTF. Just was putting it out there for those who might not have seen it. jclipps (talk) 05:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Yogg-Saron pulled
Not even lasted a week... Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 20:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ragestorm's classic quote this is not a forum suits really well now, does anyone here actually read the real forum? Those guilds are dowing the content that was meant to be for the casual players, this is not the hard modes. Anyway, don't cut the pic, the funny part is hidden

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/april/yoggexo.jpg

"cower before my true form" burter has died shibou has died phovos has died

But yes, he's going down soon, this is the part of the game made for everyone see, not only the hardcore guilds who are suffering to clear it now. Azahel (talk) 20:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As he/she/it has been seen in the game without datamining, all pics are free game. The early datamined ones are still low quality.-- 21:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, he's tiny. Been killed yet? The skeletons surrounding him say "no"...--Nihil Morari (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ensidia killed him on the EU servers on the 16th. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:58, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, if he was defeated is irrelevant... Anybody got any -userful- information about the encounter? Why the hell he tells us to kill the faceless ones (Ok he's probably trying to send us to death like this before he's able to turn into that thing but who knows) Why is there a valkir flying above him? And why he looks so happy after being defeated and is him really dead? What's the situation in ulduar after this? Killed, contained... We need to stick to what matters for this page (which is one of the worst in wowwiki atm), information about the creature rather than a thousand references for every single quote. Azahel (talk) 21:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

He's toying with you. They mean absolutely nothing to him other than to serve him. The Vrykl is Sara, his female form to mess with your heads and as far as him being happy when hes killed, I can offer two theories. One is that we don't kill him. We simply fight a small part of him. Seeing as how he should be as large as northrend, it doesn't sound too off (Saronite nodes are his blood and they're all over). Two, he knows that Algalon would notify the titans and Azeroth would be reset leaving them the possibility of freedom. I don't know, just some thoughts. (Ibage (talk) 04:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC))


 * The cites do need a cleanup...-- 22:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Grizzly Hills, Vordrassil and Ursoc lore
Can anyone find a citation/reference that directly says Yogg-Saron is the creature that lies beneath the Grizzly Hills and corrupted Vordrassil? The Ursoc quest chain implies something very much like Yogg-Saron, but I couldn't find any explicit mention. Perhaps some different Old God? -- Fandyllic  (talk · contr) 1:02 PM PST 4 May 2009


 * "I thank you all. The druids of old were wise to tear down Vordrassil, for its roots seep deep into the dwelling of an ancient evil. You know their kind as Old Gods. Beware Yogg-Saron, the beast with a thousand maws. His evil extends beyond Vordrassil's roots." :Azahel (talk) 20:09, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The Spirit of Ursoc says it when you defeat the Evil Ursoc.
 * Ursoc, the Bear God - Notes
 * Loremaster A&#39;noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 20:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Videos of the Hallucinations?
Can anyone who is getting to this content please start posting up full videos of each of his individual hallucinations? My fail likes to live vicariously through your success.


 * That would be a bit hard, as sometimes, Floating Skulls are really on the wrong spot :)
 * I'll try screens next times.
 * 10:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think they are Laughing Skulls. Floating Skull is in Hellfire Peninusla. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * That's an appelation xD Don't jump on each word
 * 11:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Yogg-Saron - "derived from sauron"?
I don't think this ought to be in the inspiration. There are obviously many things in the game inspired by LotR, but I really doubt this is one of them. It seems more like wishful thinking to me. You can see lovecraft inspiration in a pattern of the old gods naming so far, in the theme of madness, in the noises made by faceless ones everywhere.. You can see the "ygg" derivation from norse mythology, as this whole expansion is ripe with norse mythology..

And then.. the second half of the name is similar to "sauron"?
 * That's maybe going a bit to far xD
 * 21:09, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats what I thought too :| Will remove I think, I just think whoever said this is seeing too much in it
 * WasniahC (talk) 02:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually don't think you are far-fetched at all. The developement team could've named Yogg-Saron anything else than Saron. And with the similarity Saron and Sauron has I think it's rather obvious Saron refers to Sauron in one way.Merala (Talk) 02:20, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

You will have to excuse me as im fairly new to this editing system but Yogg-Saron as actually blizzard borrowing from a classic writer, but this is not the first time they have borrowed an idea for H.P. Lovecraft. Yogg-Saron is a half borrowed character from Lovecraft's made up mythology he jokingly named "Yog-Sothothery," the character being Yog-Sothoth. Other characters borrowed can be found in Dagon where he almost in exact detail describes what we know as Murlocs. C'thun also a modified character, C'thulhu (I went with the most common spelling of the name) The Call of C'thulhu. And the Faceless Ones (as a race, not Yogg-Saron) are another depiction from The Call of C'thulhu, called either the the star-spawn of Cthulhu or Cthulhi, being similar in description but much smaller. With the latter said keep in mind Yogg-Saron's corruption had reached the new world tree in Grizzly Hills, and i don't think we have yet to see a Faceless One that big.


 * Yes most of this you are saying is in fact mentioned on the Inspiration-section of this article =) Merala (Talk) 05:43, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

One of "The Three"
What does Garona have to do with Yogg-Saron? Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 02:40, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Garona saw the assassination in Karazhan, and that memory being in yogg-saron's mind indicate that he could be behind it, alone or as part of "The Three" Old Gods imprisonned who banded to escape with a "Greater Plan" as Krasus mentions in War of Ancients.
 * 11:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know the Karazhan part. I just don't see any Old God connection except for this "memory". Garona had a vision because of the fact that she was in Karazhan which was known to show visions here and there to many people. No one ever "felt" some kind of Old God presence and there were some powerful people in Karazhan. In WoW, Karazhan does not have any creatures that are connected to the Old Gods does it? The only way there could be some connection is if there was/is an Old God underneath Karazhan. I remember one theory in The Last Guardian was that the area was created after it was hit by a meteor or something from space way back in the past. Kind of like Un'Goro Crater. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Just because he wasn't sitting under Karazhan doesn't mean he couldn't influence Garona or anyone else in Azeroth. It's pretty much implied that the Old Gods corrupt, infulence and drive insane for their own plans without distance being an issue. Metalmunki (talk) 23:10, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Dying words?
Does anyone have a translation of Yogg-Saron dying words "Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh." Been looking for something from wow or the Lovecraft universe to translate it but no luck anyone have any ideas or sources? Mattyankees (talk) 18:06, October 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't look like any Warcraft language- it might be the same language that the Faceless Ones are gibbering, but we know next to nothing about that. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:23, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's actually dutch. The translation reads: "I am only joking, you are winner." YOGG EPIC WIN. LEEEEEEEERROOOOOOY JEEEEEENKIINS!!! 00:57, August 5, 2010 (UTC)-- Andy73 (talk &middot; contr)

Curse of the Flesh
If the curse would kill those affected wouldn't all flesh beings die after you defeat Yogg-Saron? BobNamataki (talk) 14:02, December 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? I do not know where you got that. They would die a some point, because they become mortal.-- 21:37, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yogg-Saron is a female Old God?
Well, it's avatar is a female Vrykul. Maybe Yogg is a female Old God too? Besides, Yogg-Saron got a thing for tentacles too ;)--MurpieMurp 14:18, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * So he likes pleasuring himself?-- 21:30, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure the Old Gods really even HAVE genders... -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's probably very lonely up at the top, especially for Yogg-Saron, having been sealed in Ulduar for some thousands of years... --Super Bhaal (talk) 22:07, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Forms mean nothing... look at Chronormu. 22:10, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Never been confirmed that Chromie was a male.--MurpieMurp 22:27, December 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Blizzard almost always uses the pronoun "it" when referring to both Yogg-Saron and C'Thun, so I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be genderless. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:18, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

death or defeat part
I'd like to have a screen of that fact please, until then I'm reverting the changes, since for every "killable" mob in the game, death anim comes at 0% HP

16:53, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Influence over Ner'zhul?
I really figured the whole point of having Yogg-Saron under the Lich King's lair was that it was the true power behind corruption and undeath. Why is this mentioned nowhere on the wiki? I remember the Lorekeeper (whatsherface who works with Metzen?) on the WotLK Behind the Scenes talking about how Ner'zhul didn't have such powers of undeath from shamanism, and Kil'jaedon couldn't have given him that. The whole air of Yogg-Saron being a death god and one who can corrupt nearly anything (miners, Vordrassil, whathaveyou) heavily implies a connection. Any insight here?? --Nerit (talk) 00:56, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Kil'jaeden could have given him powers of undeath. The Nathrezim practically invented it in Suramar (or at least had the powers to experiment with it back then). The Ner'zhul/Yogg-Saron connection is hinted at, but never goes anywhere.-- 01:19, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * As I recall, Kil'jaeden gave Ner'zhul his powers over undeath before he even arrived on Azeroth (mind you, they probably decided that explanation was too simple and did away with it). Yogg-Saron could easily have manipulated him in other ways, though. Ner'zhul seems to have a habit of listening took closely to evil voices in his head. -_ Ragestorm  (talk &middot; contr) 23:57, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Link to the aforementioned clip from behind the scenes. She goes to some length to explain that Ner'zhul clearly did not have power over death as a shaman, that is was "never specified" where all of his powers came from, and Kil'jaeden "hooked Ner'zhul up some way." -- 01:51, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hard to say, for the simple reason that nobody knows what Yogg-Saron is. However there's an important distinction to be made here-- the Lich King represents an unbridled power over undeath, while Yogg-Saron appears to personify death. These things are not the same; undeath is unnatural and twisted, while death is in fact a natural and universal phenomenon. My guess is that Yogg-Saron is somehow the literal personification of death itself; the tentacles symbolizing the countless ways death can grasp life, and the maws symbolizing the countless ways death can and will devour life eventually. If this interpretation is true, it would basically mean that Yogg-Saron is the true name and the true face of the Grim Reaper in World of Warcraft.


 * The tension between the Lich King and Yogg-Saron can therefore perhaps be compared to a strained, tense relationship between the master of a castle (Icecrown Citadel) and the landlord upon whose lands this castle has been build (the domains of death). Yogg-Saron has no direct control over the Lich King, he truly is "king", but then again, no king will rule longer than the land, upon which his kingdom was build, shall exist. TheFaithfulOfYogg-Saron (talk) 15:18, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Did some work on it
Hello there people. I did some work on the article, mainly expanding and clarifying a bit here and there and ordering the article's content. Hope it meets with everyone's approval! TheFaithfulOfYogg-Saron (talk) 22:59, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the alleged Tyr/Vezax connection
I've noticed there seems to be some minor controversy regarding this part of the speculation section. There's two things to consider:

1) It's a subject which produced more than one blue post so far, so its inclusion in relevant Wiki articles is warranted at all times.

2) Both blue posts are ambigious in that they don't outright support or deny any one interpretation. The original blue post implied Vezax may be what Tyr has become, but doesn't outright confirm it. The second blue post states Tyr "was not in Ulduar" at the time Yogg-Saron was subdued, but considering Vezax is no longer Tyr by any stretch of the imagination, this doesn't necessarily contradict the original blue post.

Conclusion: It remains speculation, but with plenty of blue post references and with Blizzard neither confirminng nor denying. I'd opt to just keep it included in the article(s) for these reasons. TheFaithfulOfYogg-Saron (talk) 17:06, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ultimately, I don't think it has any place in this article; it belongs on Tyr's page and potentially Vezax's, but not Yogg-Saron's. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:15, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see the logic in that. If Yogg-Saron is responsible for Tyr having become Vezax, as a blue post no less implied, it's information that is directly relevant to this article. TheFaithfulOfYogg-Saron (talk) 13:12, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * IF*, yes. A later blue post all but stated they're unrelated, though, so it's a moot point. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:08, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Status: Alive or Deceased?
I'd like to reopen discussion on what we're classifying Yogg-Saron as in terms of whether he's active or deceased. The only evidence I see for him being active is we hear whispers when going back to Ulduar. My counterpoint to this is that Saronite Vapors appear right after, and Saronite being a material that causes whispers regardless, makes me think the whispers are coming from Saronite and not actually Yogg-Saron himself. I don't think that a vague, word-for-word quote that Yogg-Saron used to say is enough to completely classify him as Active. We classify C'Thun as Deceased, for example, despite the sources stating that his corruption permeates after his death. Why would we assume the same wouldn't apply to Yogg-Saron? What do you guys think? -Cannibeans (talk) 22:25, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding C'Thun, that Vanilla quest says he was "killed", but then The Comic showed he is still active and alive, and Kaivax's post implied he could/would return (in fact he was supposed to, in some form, in Cata beta, but it didn't make it to lvie), and then that Hearthstone blog said he was killed again. But then, Chronicle uses "defeated", for both C'Thun and Yogg. Not "killed" or "dead", "defeated". I say we stick with that rather than trying to guess what source or element we should dismiss or not. - MyMindWontQuiet 22:32, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die :^) Xporc (talk) 22:33, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * So change their statuses to "Defeated" and leave it vague, since that's what we've been given? The Comic also has Cho'gall going there to "resurrect" C'Thun, which... you can't really do to something that's alive. -Cannibeans (talk) 22:36, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Or just a firm "Unknown" for now would work too, I guess. -Cannibeans (talk) 22:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The comic seems to make clear that death isn't the impediment to Old Gods that it is to mortals, given that it both explicitly says C'Thun is dead and also has him whispering to Med'an and empowering Cho'gall. Incidentally, this is remarkably similar to what would later happen with Y'Shaarj. Personally, I think "defeated" works fine. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:59, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Based on the odd assortment of information we have on their status, I'd agree. -Cannibeans (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The comic had a progressive development, at the beginning it shows the "corpse" of C'Thun, but then as the story progresses you realize he is not actually dead, yes because he whispers to Med'an (but you could chalk that up to Old God-y remains will always have some corruptive effect or whatever), but mostly you can see Cho'gall being directly empowered by C'Thun as the story progresses, and he reveals his entire plan is to "free" his master from below the earth and remove the shackles that bind him (Med'an was how he planned to do it, by using his power he could free C'Thuun.. as was prophecized..). That's when you learn that we didn't quite kill him. But yeah, "Defeated" or "Unknown" would be more fitting. -- MyMindWontQuiet 09:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)