Talk:Scourge

Faction, not race
The Scourge is a faction of the Undead, not a race.--FeldmanSkitzoid 21:03, 7 Mar 2005 (EST)

Agreed. It should be removed from the race listing. Saimdusan 01:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Member Races
I noticed that the races included in the Scourge are quite diverse but interestingly do not include Orcs. I seem to remember Arthas and Kel'thuzad slaughtering the remnants of the Blackrock clan in Lordaeron back in WC3. Does it not make sense that they would raise their remains and encorporate them into the Scourge as well? --(Julzwinfield 10:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It would make sense, but we've never seen Scourge agents who were clearly undead orcs. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There was an undead half-orc and an orc ghoul in the scourge in Manual of Monsters, and I think there was discussion of some in the short stories in one of the other books as well. But they seem rare. In most cases you couldn't tell much difference if they are skeletal scourge, except an orc would probably appear bulkier... But on the other hand scourge skeletons and ghouls appear exaggerated anyways...Baggins 03:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't forget the tusks. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 03:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

It talks about that the Forsaken have let undead orcs into the apothecary society, so that means there has to be some, somewhere, I think Mr.X8 02:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Havent you guys played the Night elf campaign in TFT (The 2nd level) where in an optional quest you put to rest some orcs (Don't they look skeletal to you?)--The last Alterac 10:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * They weren't part of the Scourge. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, canonically Liches are Warlocks of the Shadowmoon clan thus orcs --N&#39;Nanz 12:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You raise a rather effective point. But I reiterate that the ones at the Broken Isles were not Scourge aligned. Judging by the appearance of Liches, their skeletal structure has been altered- but they are still technically undead orcs. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The first Liches that was created alongside the Lich King were Orcs, but not all Liches existing today are former Orcs. As you know, there are Human Liches aswell, such as Kel'Thuzad and Ras Frostwhisper.--Odolwa 20:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I have another interesting point: Ner'zhul was an orc!!! :D --N&#39;Nanz 11:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I just said those were undead orcs. I never said any thing about the scourge--The last Alterac 09:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The matter is that you are on the Scourge talking page... --N&#39;Nanz 18:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Cant we just put undead Humanoids?Because there are probuly a lot more races undead.Such as Gnomes,Dwarves,Yetis.Blood elves?Orcs? 01:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Not just humanoids can become Undead, and thus, members of the Scourge - just look at Frost Wyrms, Crypt Lords, and Crypt Fiends. Any race that was living can die, and can then also be brought back with Necromancy. EDIT: Oh, and Orcs are definately in the Scourge. Its led by one, as brought up by N'Nanz.Torturer(OldStyle) 15:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think its also intresting to note there are no signs of demons (yet) being raised despite there were alot of 'em during the second invasion. Though it makes sense they have (or created) an immunity for being raised, incase their pets would turn against them. (Duke Ragereaver 14:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC))

dreadlods can be necromancers,so they are probuly part of them 18:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it. The Burning Legion and the Scourge don't get along. I can't see Ner'zhul allowing demons into the Scourge, especially demons as cunning, deadly, and potentially traitorous as the nathrezim.  -- Dark T Zeratul 19:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Balnazzar? 19:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well technically the majority of the orc liches are built from the human bones of the death knights, IIRC. Not sure if we have seen any specific liches that have actual orc bones, or not. Possibly the lich in MoM, but I'm not sure.Baggins 19:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

All the scourg is is dead people, so there is probuly a lot we havnt seen.Probuly even dead kobolds! 20:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, technically some scourge are still living, or at least on their way to becoming undead. Some death knights, their trainees, some acolytes, some necromancers, most members of the Cult of the Damned, etc.

If skeletal orcs (raised from the dead) exist, then we can assume that it is possible to bring orcs back as undead and that the Scourge has done so. They have killed orcs, and they raise corpses when they kill. What would have stopped them form raising orc corpses? Makesfolkslose (talk) 02:28, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't think anyone in the Scourge is a "member race" like the Alliance or Horde. The Scourge just takes anything they can and turns it undead. I don't think they have meetings where the Lich King asks individual "leaders" what plans they should come up with next. It is more like "former races" who are now Scourge. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:12, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

This picture I found on this site (and a hell lot of places)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Scourge.jpg

I have seen this image in a lot of places (I think it is called the Infinite Army?). (Example Dark Ages Of Warcraft. I remember mentioning Azeroth wars strategy its another wc3 custom game like it. (The genre it is in is either called other or I love Ironflinch (I did a poll on a forum called wc3diplo.org to name the genre that had the second most votes))--The last Alterac 10:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

And what are you trying to say with this?--Odolwa 13:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I see that picture in alot of places--The last Alterac 21:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * yea it's good fanart. I believe blizzard has used it themselves a few times. 15:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It shows Arthas in a victory pose, like a leader who tries to encourage his forces. But you dont need to encourage an army of mindless undead. That's why I don't really like this picture. Oberscht (talk)

Major Faction
I was browsing the Alliance and Horde page, and I noticed in comparison the lore rich scourge is lacking on this page. I think Strengths and Weaknesses should be added.

Strengths: Nearly endless number: Self explanatory, if not, necromancy. Obedience: Other then the forsaken, all undead will follow the Lich King's order's without question. Variety: Spider, Gargoyles, Dragons, oh my.

Weaknesses: Holy Magic: easily takes them down. Lack of Free Will: Can't act on their own or adapt easily.

That's all I can think of at this second, but it should be added onto the page, the scourge may not be playable but it is still a major faction, especially with WotLK.

Rannulf 04:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

RP?
This might be abit of topic, but dose any one have any tip's on how to RP as a memmber of the Scourge? TerrorBlades (talk) 18:08, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I dont see any way to RP a member of the Scourge. Either you are a mindless undead, so you have to stay away from every civilization, use only grunts and sometimes a "braaaains", and level up with grinding mobs only, or you are an agent of the Cult of the Damned, but these are top secret, and they dont reveal themselves, so you have nobody to RP with. Oberscht (talk) 01:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

They're not all mindless. Many of the higher ranking undead do actually have minds of their own and they willingly serve the Lich King. There's also the death knights who are still with the Scourge - perhaps one of these could have infiltrated the Knights of the Ebon Blade. But yes I agree that anything of that sort would have to remain secret, so you would be very limited in your choice of people to RP with. 18:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I have more information on Scourge role-playing on my talk page, but to role-play well as Scourge you need to point out that your with the Scoure (either subtly of just plain out in the open) and role something that looks dead or could fit into a side-story for lore on your character (For instance, I have yet to see a Turen on the Side of the Scourge). --Morec of Gilneas (talk) 20:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Command structure and notable allies
Needs a major overhaul, if not a complete removal. Both this one and the one on Burning Legion have turned from an attempt at a ranking tree into what essentially amounts to a list of every member that people want to see mentioned, in a vaguely rank-oriented order. I also must point out that given the mindless nature of most of the Scourge's minions, it is possible they don't even have a real rank system. Tangental to this, I think that we should purge the word "notable" from our table headers- some apparently read "notable" as "any character you think is cool and should be on this table". So, any thoughts? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. It's important to only keep the important persons on the tree, because else it will get far too chaotic (as it is now). For example, there is no need to have a little irrelevant mob like Eyes of Dar'Khan on the tree.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 17:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Race?
So is Scourge a race too because I think I have seen it on some NPC's articles. Also, is "Scourged" a race because there seem to be a lot of former animals and soldiers with "Scourged" in their name and otherwise there isn't a good "race" name for some of them. Rolandius ( talk  -  contr ) 13:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Why is it a race? I do not think it is at all. If it is in their name, it just means they are a part of it. Scourged is the adjective form of Scourge. As in "You got Scourged, now you are undead."-- 01:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Why is it a race? I don't know, that is what I am asking. I think there are some NPCs I saw on here that had it as their race because I am guessing they didn't look like any other current race? With Scourged, I was just wondering why some NPCs called Scourge somethings while other NPCs are called Scourged somethings. I guess it is the same thing though, just an adjective. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 02:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well if you look at it this way: there's a difference between "Scourge Footman" and "Scourged Footman". If you don't understand that, I'm afraid I can't help you. -- 09:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Logo
So I was at a gaming site today, and someone had made a big picture of Icecrown Citadel. Now, as I watched a banner of the Scourge, I noticed that the logo had changed slightly from the old banner logo. Shouldn't WoWWiki make a new topic picture for The Scourge then, perhaps? Azkaner (talk) 18:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * What is this new image?-- 20:11, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well if you go to Icecrown Citadel, or go here: http://www.wegame.com/view/IcecrownCitadel you'll notice that the Scourgebanner has chagned slightly, bu that I mean that they extended the length of the Runeblade and removed some of the weapons. Azkaner (talk) 17:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The WotLK vertion of the one on the page now is mirrored on both sides (I assume for texturing reasons).-- 17:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I finally saw what you were talking about. Yes it is sort of new. I'll try and get a screenshot.-- 22:25, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

After the Lich King?
I've been doing some thinking on a subject i dont think anyone's touched on yet, and i'd like to draw opinions to this question; If the Lich King finally is finally destroyed, what will happen to the rest of the Scourge? Will all the zombies just drop dead with their master, or will they still be around in some form during the events of WoW: Cataclysm? 10:19, 27 Oct 2009 (UTC)))
 * Since the Forsaken are no longer bound by the Lich King and haven't ceased to be, my guess is they'll simply continue on as they are. Mindless undead like skeletons or ghouls will just rampage around, and the non-mindless ones like the liches and death knights will regain their free will, for better or for worse. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:51, October 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * You are forgetting there still is a Lich King; Bolvar took the Throne. So these Undeads will follow whatever mental order he sends out. They will likely disappear over the years, but I doubt they would just topple over... Wolfstorm11 (talk) 23:29, April 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you should look at when the question was asked... Oct 2009, ICC didn't open until Dec 2009. 23:44, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You are right, though the question still applies. Will there be Scourge released from the iron grasp of the Lich King by the new one? Would those able to live on and think for themselves be released from utter obedience? Wolfstorm11 (talk) 23:47, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well what I can tell from after seeing Beta is that Andorhall seems to be the only place beside Scoolmance that has undead controlled by a high ranking undead. The undead in what remains of Scourage controlled Andorhall are controlled by a lich. And also that lichs level is lower than before which leads me to at least two conclusions. First conclusion is that since Bolvar is the Lich King hes probably not giving any of his high ranking minions any of his power or two since Andorhall is split between three differnt factions and with the Scourage being the weakest faction there and since the level for the Western Plaguelands has been lowered, Blizz probably lowered the lich in Andorhal level probably to make it easier for lower level players to kill the Lich in Andorhal. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 06:23, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Former members of the scourge
in the former members of the scourge should the dreadlords be counted amongst this because they were members before the scourge broke away from burning legion control? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by. 23:57, September 27, 2010


 * I'm confused by your question... there is no former members section... there's a notable former servants section, but that contains specific people. 05:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, dreadlords were not part of the Scourge, they were Burning Legion members overwatching the Scourge
 * 09:19, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Command Structure
I think it would be a good idea to split the command structure into a diffrent page. I think it takes up a bit to much of the page, Also isn't the servants section a bit repetitive due to the members portion of the template, I personally think that should be removed as a whole. MoneygruberTheGoblin (talk contribs) 05:28, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
We need to find out a way to settle this edit warring that's going on with he page. First of all I would like to clarify that we have no proof that those are Scourge listed in the screenshots cited. Their proximity to Sylvanas further raises my idea that they are not. Next, I only that the undead creatures should be listed in the info-box. Along with Vyrkul and Ice Trolls as exceptions, if we listed all the raised races we would need to put undead high elves, and too much to fit here, so it's easier to simply just "Former Alliance and Horde members". That's about it for now. Anyone else have some ideas? (talk contribs) 20:03, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Minions
I was editing around and I found that the Minions of the Scourge section seems completely pointless, it just takes up space when they could click the link in the Info-Box. ( contribs) 22:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

leaders and Races
I think we should return it when it had more leaders and race because then it had more info. Death41 talk 1:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)


 * More text doesn't exactly make something better. Bolvar is the leader now. Besides everything from the events of Wrath of the Lich King is in the former commanders section so nothing of importance was lost. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]][[Image:inv_helmet_119.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 00:42, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Your starting to remind me of somebody, have you ever been on this site before? [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]][[Image:inv_helmet_119.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 01:19, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, he is Ultimatex. 04:25, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You would think he would try to be less obvious. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]][[Image:inv_helmet_119.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 05:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Passive.
Your telling me all those POST CATACLYSM Undead we're fighting in Andorhal and such are passive? One Giant Angry Badger (talk) 21:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The large and unseen main Scourge body is being kept passive by Bolvar. Some groups in the plaguelands can subvert this docile state.-- 22:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok. Some are passive. One Giant Angry Badger (talk) 22:08, 7 July 2012 (UTC)