Talk:Elemental spirit

Clarification
Can someone clarify this for me? id never seen this idea untill i came on WoW wiki and it seems a little vauge


 * Sign your posts, please. The Fifth Classical Element (henceforth, FCE), given by Aristotle as aether, has, in recent years, typically been interpreted as something more spiritual, such as Heart, Soul, Spirit, etc. Golden's interpretation of the FCE, put forward in Lord of the Clans, is consistent with this more recent interpretation. In LotC, Golden describes Thrall's transformation from an apprentice to a Farseer as a series of conversation with Earth, Air/Wind, FIre, Water, and Wilds in turn. Nobundo recieved instruction in shamanism (as described on Blizzard's website) from Air/Wind directly. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:37, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Its interesting to note that the chinese had the element of "metal" and "wood" as their fourth and fifth element and some other cultures had some other alternate ideas for the fifth element. These all apparently fall under the category of classical elements... Only bring it up since I came across a reference to chinese classical elements in one in a textbook I was reading.

That would explain the spirit of metal in pandaren philosophy considering that much of their culture is based on chinese tradition. Also like in chinese elements, earth is seperate from metal. Checking on Wikipedia it seems the rest of the spirits appear to be a combinatinof Wu Xing and Bagua/I ChingBaggins (talk) 17:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Earthen Ring
Are we certain that they're talking about the same Spirits? They sound extremely different from the ones Golden describes. -_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 15:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep its very specifically talking about the elemental spirits, that is the term given. Although I believe this implication is given in a few ingame quests for the earthen ring as well. Although by this definition it lumps the Twilight Hammer's elementals into the elemental spirit definition.


 * One also learns that each culture has its own terms for spirits and its own "spirits", for example pandaren split their geomancy elemental spirits into, "fire", "thunder", "earth", "water", and "wind".Baggins (talk) 08:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Differences
anyone could tell me what is the difference between elemental spirit that helps shaman and elemental pawn of the old god?--Dainsleaf (talk) 17:58, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Cleaning
This article needs some serious cleaning, since most of this information is from the rpg.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:00, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I take it back this article is a nightmare.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:13, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The Infobox
The Infobox only contains information about Elementals and nothing about the actual Elemental Spirits...--Ashbear160 (talk) 16:51, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Cite the difference.-- 17:24, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * That's a pretty thing hard to cite, but i'll try. Besides the fact that the spirits are incoporeal and nameless (besides the descriptive), while elementals are coporeal and have names, you can't ignore that for now they are different things--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:34, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Or i could rename this article to avoid confusion, since it seems that Unbroken uses the term of Element more.--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Would "Spirits of the Elements" work to distinguish between them for you?--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:56, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * They are already distinguished, and some spirits are named and corporeal.-- 18:59, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Which one the Spirit of Fire? or maybe the Spirit of the Wilds? i think you're confusing some thing... or i'am. I thought this article is about the elemental spirits that are described in Unbroken(both incoporeal and unamed), Lords of the Clans (Also incorporeal and unamed), and Wow:Shaman. What do you want this article to be about?--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:09, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The same thing you are talking about. However, they have bodies and names when they show up in WoW, and in The Shattering they are based on their portrayal in WoW.-- 19:19, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm confused? can you give a few examples?--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * These sections (The Furies, Other named, Known types in WoW) which you discarded.-- 19:33, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * But those are not Elemental Spirits or the Elements that Thrall, Nobundo and Muln talk to, they are just normal elementals. This article is supposed to be about them(the Elements) not every elemental that appears with spirit on the name, since elementals are already spirits in their concept.--Ashbear160 (talk) 19:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Explain and cite your reasoning. You have not proven the divide. Elementals called spirits that help shaman seem to fit the idea of the elemental spirits to me.-- 20:05, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The explanation was on the RPG, and i haven't yet found a alternate explanation. The concept still exists in the lore. Now attempting to cite and explain the name change.


 * "Will I be able to use these abilities to help my people?”
 * Yes. The relationship between the elements and the shaman is one of synchronicity. The shaman’s influence helps to calm and unite us, just as our influence enriches and fulfills the shaman. When you have completed your training, you will be able to call upon the elements in times of need. If the elements deem your cause just, we will assist you in any way possible.
 * Here the Spirit of Water refers himself as the Elements, also notice how blizzard phrases how Nobundo talks and the Spirit of Water talks.


 * MULN: Well... normally we save this for later in an apprentice's studies... but you know I can't refuse an opportunity to slake your thirst for knowledge. It is the inner spirit of all living mortals, the spark in our hearts that connects us to the elements. The spirit of life is the place of ultimate truth. However, few shaman ever make that deepest connection.
 * Here is Muln referring them as the Elements too


 * The days passed in routine fashion. Thrall now spent most of his time studying with Drek'Thar, though on occasion he went hunting with a small group. He utilized his newfound relationship with the elements to aid his clan: asking the Spirit of Earth for advice on where the herds were, asking the Spirit of Air to change the course of the wind so that their scent would not betray them to the watchful creatures. Only once did he ask the Spirit of the Wilds for aid, when supplies were running dangerously low and their luck in hunting had taken a turn for the worse.
 * And the last one from Lord of the clans that says the same thing.


 * This is hard without a clear and concise explanation.--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:52, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Cut
Put element only information, got a stupid inforbox :(--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:10, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem with the old one was only that you are trying to make up hard rules for the subject matter.-- 02:51, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem with the old one is that it refereed to elementals in general and not the topic of this article.--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:18, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * No... I think it was right. Maybe not the Elemental Planes bit, but mostly.-- 03:29, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Well the elements don't answer to elemental lords, the furies or the templars, and as far as i know they also never talked in Kalimag using what i can assume to be a mix of Telepathy and Empathy to talk with the shamans directly--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * They furies are related to them (and seem to be their mouthpieces, if not their "leaders" in Outland), and they do speak Kalimag in WoW, which you disregard.-- 03:34, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Affiliated? ok. Their leaders? No. Also a mouthpiece still means that they answer to the element they serve, much like a ambassador answers to it's rulers. The Minor Manifestations speak Kalimag?--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * The relationship of the furies to their elements is a complex and confusing one. The Manifestation of Water certainly did.-- 03:53, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Like i said affiliation is what you mean, not leadership.--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Apparently affiliation is a NPC box thing so i'll just put them in faction...--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:45, 22 April 2012 (UTC)


 * So, why were the spirits seen in the game discounted again?-- 22:22, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Because i wanted this article to be about what it implies to be about: "the elemental spirits" and not any type elemental that had spirit in name. Coobra seems to want to make this article be about the "pandaria elemental spirits creatures" maybe this article should be reverted; Or split since "the Elemental Spirits" have been also been called the "Spirits of the elements".


 * Anyway this is just my opinion, i think there should be one article to talk the "spirits of the elements", but do what you want.--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Self-correction: Actually they have been called the "Elements" and not "spirits of the elements"; So im suggesting a split between the Element and Elemental Spirit pages. Tell me what you think. I'll concede in whatever way you want...--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Merge
Can we just merge this article with the Elementals? Ragnaros himself answered to Thralls call to the elemental spirits. So it should be pretty clear that they are the same. Otherwise we should remove Ragnaros from the Elementals page and put hin in here ;-) We also don't have a "Spirit of a blue dragon" page because of Azuregos or "Spirit of an ancient". --LemonBaby (talk) 09:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The spirits of the elements are different from elementals (altrough that difference is tenous), they don't talk directly like Ragnaros did, they are 5 spirits (or 6) instead of 4, and they exist connected to their planet, except for the spirit of the wilds which is a universal spirit.--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think however that this article should be renamed Spirits of the Elements (or just Elements?)since that's what they call themselves, and reserve this article for pandaren elemental spirits.--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The spirit of Azuregos is different from Azuregos. So why don't we make a "Blue dragon spirit" page? And Ragnaros answered to Thralls call. So he definitly is a elemental spirit.--LemonBaby (talk) 16:04, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Azuregos has nothing to do with elemental spirits, he's not even a spirit himself, he just travelled to the spirit realm, so your argument on that point is invalid. --[[File:CogHammer.gif]]D oo meЯ  T [[Image:Battlegroup_RoundIcon.png|16px]]C  16:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The Ragnaros argument still stands as solid as before ;-) And there was an NPC called Spirit of Azuregos as there were different other non-dead spirits. We already have an spirit article and none other creature got an extra article for its spirit version - why treating the elementals special?--LemonBaby (talk) 16:35, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The overlap between the elementals and the elemental spirits is unknown. The "spirit" page is about a stat.-- 22:02, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The overlap is known: Ragnaros is an elemental spirit. So expanding the spirit page might be necessary, this page however not --LemonBaby (talk) 22:06, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The argument can be made, but there seems to be some sort of difference. Also, again, the "spirit" page isn't about anything like this.-- 22:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thrall called upon the elemental spirits, and Ragnaros answered. That doesn't mean that Ragnaros is an elemental spirit, any more than calling on Elune and being answered by Hakkar would mean that the two are one in the same. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What difference are you talking about? Expanding the spirit page with a lore section seems the easier solution. Something like: Beeings all around Azeroth can also seperate there body from their spirit, such as elementals (Ragnaros etc), Ancients (Agamaggan), dragons (azuregos) or dwarves.--LemonBaby (talk) 22:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a difference between normal elementals(like Ragnaros) and the Elements, with each world having it own set of elements with the Spirit of the Wilds uniting them all according to Unbroken, and as far as i know Ragnaros is not the only elemental of fire in Azeroth.
 * I still think we should rename this article, i suggest using the only name given in Unbroken, Elements (or Spirits of the Elements if you want to keep with name theme) unless someone opposes this name change.--Ashbear160 (talk) 10:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Fun Fact: You can even attack the Spirits of Earth and they look like earth elementals. Must be a coincidence ;-) Those Elemental spirits on this page are nothing more than a shamans view of the elementals. Thats all. --LemonBaby (talk) 10:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I have seen nothing that says that Elements are just Elementals, and according to Unbroken each world has it own set of elements(one fire, one water, one earth and one air/wind) with the wilds being a universal element, trough the elements are able to have manifestations in form of elementals (Minor Manifestation of Water) or use elementals as their representatives like the Elemental Furies in the Outlands, but never portrayed as the same.
 * The beginning "Elemental Spirits or Elementals" is highly misleading since Unbroken nevers call them that.(and i don't have the other sources), does anybody know where the name Elemental spirit come from?--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:03, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * yes, every world has its own elements. There are Water Elementals in Outland as there are in Azeroth. There are also tons of quests who support that they are one and the same like Call of Earth (Azuremyst Isle 2) or Call of Water (Exodar, 3). Igoring those quests isn't possible. I am by the way not saying that the Wild doesn't exist. Just saying this page should be merged with elementals as those are the same.--LemonBaby (talk) 11:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Those could also be interpreted as treating the elements like factions instead of beings. There is no point in continuing this conversation if we disagree on the differences between what's a elemental and a element which exist. My only suggestion is for you to go read Unbroken or any other publication that has shamans communicating with the Elements.
 * I'm still asking where the name elemental spirits come from, i'll ask around and do a bit of research, if i don't find anything to back the name Elemental Spirits, i will suggest a move.--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:30, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The differences between the spirits of the elements and elementals seem to ride a thin line, and depends on how people interpret the information provided. I believe there is enough of a difference to keep the articles separate. One source for the name is on World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game pg 71 as well as Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game pg 93 which even states "While a shaman's powers come from his relationship with the spirits of the elements, these spirits should not be confused with actual elementals — although a shaman can gain the power to command such beings through the force of his will alone." A rename to the article, as suggested, may be needed to avoid confusion. 20:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok Omacron in SoL pointed out that in the Shaman Manga Muln refers to them as Elemental spirits.
 * Muln Earthfury "Earthen Ring, focus the elemental spirits here! Spirits of earth, I implore you!"
 * However it refers to the spirit of the earth in plural which leaves me slightly more confused than before. Maybe Muln is calling out for earth elementals which are sometimes called earth spirits... :S
 * I still think we should rename the article to Elements, to both avoid confusion and free up the article for other types of "elemental spirits" like the minor elementals with spirit in the name or the pandarian elemental spirits.
 * Sorry if this causes problems, it's just that article has been a headache ever since i started editing in it, mainly due to discussions on what's the difference between a spirit of the element and a elemental.--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * There isn't just one spirit of earth, one spirit of fire, etc. And why would you propose renaming it to "elements" when the term is a) less specific and thus more easily confused with elementals, and b) you just pointed out that "elemental spirits" is a valid term? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:34, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I always had problems everytime i edited this page, since the RPG was declared non-canon. I wouldn't mind if it's name was changed to Spirits of the Elements. Note: Unbroken implied there was only one type per planet except the one of the wilds which was universal.
 * The Reasons are the following:
 * a) A lot of confusion between what's a elemental and a spirit of the elements (has Lemonbaby suggestion to merge has shown), because elementals often come with spirit in the name, with users often disregarding any separation between both. (As Coobra said "A rename to the article, as suggested, may be needed to avoid confusion")
 * b) It's what they were called in Unbroken, with no mention of elemental spirits, elementals or spirits.
 * c) Most of the links to the Elements page is supposed to link to the spirits, yet the element page is a very outdated copy of Magic schools.
 * d) I don't know the context used in Shaman manga.
 * e) Would free up the Elemental Spirit to be used in various different contexts, from those elementals that have spirit in the name to the new ones with animal masks from pandaria.
 * f) I'm not suggesting a complete split. The elements page would have "Elements or Elemental Spirits" in the first line, and the elemental spirits page would have the following " ==Elements== See Elements for main article. ".
 * TL;DR I want to remove the ambiguity in the article name for the article solely about the "spirits of the elements".
 * I'm mostly in this talk page to ask for Coobra opinion, because in my opinion he seems to be the best editor/admin that can deal with these types problems sucessfully. Sorry if this was long winded.--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * After thinking about it for a little bit, I think it should just stay where it is. 02:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay then, thanks for you opinion.--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I did as you told me and I read Shaman and I am sure you are right - the problems are the names. But after reading Shaman I am sure that an Elemental spirit (or element) is the same as an Elemental. As is the spirit of earth for example nothing more than the spirit of an Earth Elemental. This is shown on the pages 32 - 34, 56 and espacially 71 - 72. Those are not all, but not only the comic also in-game references like Call of Earth (Azuremyst Isle 2), Call of Water (Exodar, 3) and Seeking Spiritual Aid. So you can find as many names as you like for an Elemental, the shaman calls upon the spirit of an Elemental (or an element, an elemental spirit or whaotever). I provided you many sources, I now demand only 1 source that says that the spirit of water (or element of water) is NOT a water elemental.--LemonBaby (talk) 09:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * "I now demand only 1 source that says that the spirit of water (or element of water) is NOT a water elemental." elementals are spirits by default, the point is not whetever the spirits of water are water elementals but that the element called Spirit of Water is not one
 * I didn't say to go read Shaman i said to go read Unbroken. The Spirit of Water answers by the name of Water(which would be incredibly stupid if it was a elemental). And in contrast the elements don't talk in there, instead they narrate their words.(which is a cool touch) --Ashbear160 (talk) 13:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The Spirit of Water is a water elemental. You can see one talking to Muln. And yes, this one was answering by the name of water. As there was an air elemental answering to the name of air. So, what is the difference between a spirit of water and a water elemental? I still don't get it. And yes, I read Unbroken and there is nothing in the short story that points out, that there are differences between them.--LemonBaby (talk) 13:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Then we have to go trough the information on the RPG which states they are not the same.--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:16, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * They are not canon anymore and even if they would be - Shaman is the more recent source. I can't find the text passage in Unbroken were it is stated that there is only one Spirit of Earth/Air/Fire/Water per world. Can you help me?--LemonBaby (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I translated Unbroken and remember something similar. Hope this is what are you looking for: And suddenly Nobundo understood… something seemingly so simple, yet a concept that had completely eluded his mind: there were countless worlds beyond. This much he had known, as his people had traveled to many worlds before settling on Draenor. But what Nobundo had failed to comprehend was that the power of the elements stretched far beyond as well. Each world had its own elements, its own powers to call upon.

--Mordecay (talk) 14:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, then it isn't stated that there is one spirit of earth on eacht world, only that each world has its own elements. Thank you! However i recognized that I don't have any supporters in my request to merge. So since wopedia is some kind of democracy I will give up. But please you to keep an open mind regarding that topic. --LemonBaby (talk) 15:42, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * This discussion has escaped my ability to be constructive, i give up.--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The spirits and the elemental hierarchies are separate for a couple of obvious reasons. First, if they weren't, shamans wouldn't be able to cast fire or earth spells. Ragnaros was actively trying to kill anyone who wasn't a dark iron dwarf or a member of the twilight's hammer, and Therazane had a disdain for mortals between vanilla and Cataclysm. Second, if Ragnaros was the spirit of fire, why would Thrall even try to summon him? That would be stupid, even by cataclysm standards. Third, Ragnaros and Al'akir are dead, while Neptulon is under naga control. Thrall is still obviously dealing with the elemental spirits. Hence, they are not the same. Now there is indeed some overlap between the two categories. Since they're both physical representations of the elements, it would be weird if there wouldn't be. They're both made up of the same elements, so both individual elementals, and aspects of the elemental spirits take the form of elemental units in-game. Because the aspects of the elemental spirits are still made from the same stuff as individual elementals, the elemental lords probably do have a degree of mastery over it. Hence, almost all fire elementals going nuts in cataclysm. But that doesn't mean they are synonymous. --Ijffdrie (talk) 01:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Split
MoP has been out for quite a while, and its pretty clear that the spirits on Pandaria and the shamanistic spirits are not one and the same. While there exact nature isn't clear, the pandaren spirits are pretty clearly individuals, rather than representations of the land. Anyway, this page needs a split. I vote for keeping elemental spirits on this page, and putting the pandaren spirits on PandarenElementalSpirits. Not the RPG ones though, those probably best stay on this page.--Ijffdrie (talk) 01:27, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I will repeat my suggestion split this page into Elements(singular? plural?), and leave the ones from pandaria here, it also gives it flexibility to put other minor elemental spirits here.--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I suggest Elemental spirit (Pandarian).-- 05:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Going off of the quest Pandaren Spirit Tamer maybe move the creatures to Pandaren spirit or Pandaren elemental spirit, I just prefer if the creature name didn't contain parenthesis. We might want to also consider just moving the page to Elements and keep the pandaren creatures at this location. Such as Ashbear suggested. 07:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree. Either "Pandaren spirit" as in Pandaren Spirit Tamer (quest) or "Ancient Spirit" as their titles and Quid Pro Quo suggests.--LemonBaby (talk) 10:07, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * That could work, however i still keep my sugestion to move most of this page to a Elements page to avoid confusion.--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:22, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm currently rewriting the Elementals page, as it was pretty outdated, large parts of it based off the premise from the monster guide that all elementals originate from the elemental planes, which definitely doesn't seem to be the case in World of Warcraft, where we probably can get at least twenty examples of elementals being born from the land being upset. I will include the information on the elemental spirits of Pandaria, going with the name Pandaren spirit (so pandaren fire spirit, pandaren water spirit, etc) for the species. The elemental spirits still get their own page here, just as the elemental lords get their own page (see my last comment on the topic above why the elemental spirits should probably still be considered independent entities). Only the greater spirits should be on this page, individual creatures belonging under elementals. --Ijffdrie (talk) 01:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I still say that it is wrong to disregard the elemental spirit NPCs in WoW (both named and not, especially the manifestations) as part of this because they do not fit the universal voice view present throughout most books. We do not know the exact relationship between the elementals under the Lords and the disembodied spirit(s), but I do not think that they should not be considered as the spirit(s) talked about on this page.-- 02:40, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Which is why i want to change this article name into "Elements" to avoid such confusions in the future.--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Elementals that are part of the spirits are still elementals, no less so than elementals that are controlled by the elemental lords. I've updated the Elementals page to reflect this. --Ijffdrie (talk) 03:27, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Element in the void
I was looking through the edit history and the tweets. I agree that what Nobundo sensed out in the void isn't the Spirit of Life itself. It is merely the life element. In the short story: Out here in the void was another element, one that seemed to bind the worlds together, one composed of unspeakable energy. The unspeakable energy is referring to the mysterious element Micky Neilson identifies as life. And he's separating life the creatures (sensed on the worlds) and life the energy (binding the worlds together). --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Nope. The "unspeakable energy binding the worlds together" is most likely the Twisting Nether, which is composed of mana. The Spirit of Life doesn't bind the worlds together: it is present in every being, as shown by the short story and subsequent material.


 * If the "unspeakable energy" was Life, then Nobundo wouldn't have identified it as "another element". Cemotucu (talk contribs) 23:17, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The mantra and epiphany of the story is about life. This epiphany comes when he sees this "new" element. It's "new" to him because he had only previously been speaking to the standard 4. When he comes away from this revelation, all Nobundo talks about is life. And everything Neilson tweeted was about life. I'm not saying the Spirit of Life binds the worlds together, but just the life energy/element. There isn't just one spirit for all worlds in any of the other elements.


 * However, that doesn't exclude its relation to arcane and the Nether. Well of Eternity was a fount of arcane energy that was created to nurture life on Azeroth. So maybe they are the same thing. :) --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 00:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Micky was pretty clear in his tweet; I asked if the "new element" was Life, and he said that Life was the multitude of voices, while the unspeakable energy was the thing binding the worlds together.


 * Nothing on his tweets suggest the two things are the same; they are explicitly different. Cemotucu (talk contribs) 00:46, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, the voice is the Spirit of Life. Micky said the thing Nobundo senses is life on other worlds.
 * And there was more. Out here in the void was another element, one that seemed to bind the worlds together, one composed of unspeakable energy. If he could call upon this one--but he knew immediately that he was far too inexperienced at this stage of his journey to commune with this mysterious new element. This was just a glimpse, a gift of understanding... An epiphany.
 * There is only one thing being sensed here (the "new element") which Micky says is life. "Bind the worlds together" and "composed of unspeakable energy" are properties of that one thing Nobundo is sensing. The distinction is between the element itself and the "unspeakable energy" of which it is composed. As I mentioned previously, it's possible that the life element is composed of energy related to arcane. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:42, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Before the paragraph you quoted and that mentions the new element, Life had already been previoulsy accounted, as the "multitude of voices, both masculine and feminine, a harmonic symphony within and all around him." Those voices were detected with his closed eyes, for when he opened them, he witnessed a "never-ending expanse filled with myriad of worlds". This thing he sensed was already acknowledges By Nobundo as "something very different from the other elements."


 * But then, at the end of the story, he sensed yet "another element" out there in the void. An element "that seemed to bind the worlds together, one composed of unspeakable energy."


 * When I asked Micky about whether both of this elements were the same thing, he initially seem to say both were the same. But when I asked him: "So, the 'new' element that was in the void, binding the world together and composed of unspeakable energy... is Life?", Neilson made a distinction: "Life is what he senses on myriad other worlds. The unspeakable energy is what binds all worlds together." If both were the same thing, he could have easily answered: "Yes." Cemotucu (talk contribs) 13:13, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Despite what I had previously argued, I concur with Cemotucu. :) While the wording of the story might suggests otherwise, Micky is the author and his clarification that they were two different things should be taken as the intended meaning. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 18:23, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Spirits and Elementals
I don't know about the stuff saying the spirits shouldn't be confused with elementals. Between consistently similar models, and that Cataclysm made it quite clear the two are indeed the same, or linked at the least, I think this should be considered in the clean up. The Elementals were tied to Azeroth since the Old Gods, and the incident with Thrall shows that the elemental spirits are linked to the Elemental Plane. Meganerd18 (talk) 13:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this page needs work and WoW was deliberately ignored as a source per Talk:Elemental_spirit (which is bad). I am not sure what the actual difference is, if any. The novels and short stories talk about universal voices, but often enough (especially in WoW) the spirits are groups of individuals.-- 15:31, 25 July 2014 (UTC)