Talk:Karazhan

Tower underneath the tower
Before it came out, the description was there was a tower the exact parallel of the real tower underneath Karazhan. I think in the lore that was where Sargeras lived or something. Is there any sign of this? Either now or maybe as a future instance where we might finally run into sargeras?User: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.

I don't think it was "where Sargeras lived" considering the fact that Sargeras' essence/spirit/soul occupied Medivh's body until the time of Medivh's death at the hands of Khadgar and Lothar. --Karye 09:34, July 16, 2007 (PST)

Odd...
In the map veiwer, if you go inside itle be empty just like all other places that you cant go, but hte ground has a large smily face on it. where do I post this? Cormundo 03:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you confused by the presence of the smiley face or the fact you are unable to go in? The smiley face is a tile on the ground physically beneath the outer world version of the tower, it's been there for as long as I can recall and my guess would be it has always been there. If you are confused by being unable to gain entry into the tower that would be because it's an instance and with all instances it is its own separate area from its outer version. Of course you can still visit the instance as well in the Map Viewer. --Karye 09:32, July 16, 2007 (PST)

Freaky Place (Top of the tower)
I only recently noticed that after entering Malchezaar's room at the top of the tower, the player is no longer in the Deadwind Pass, or possibly Azeroth.

Basically, after the completing the Chess Event and going up the spiralling stairs, you are clearly still inside the tower, but at the very top, and you can still see the Deadwind Pass and the village below. But walk a few steps through the door and onto Malchezaar's Balconey, suddenly you're on the side of a massive cliff, a huge floating island some distance in front of you, and no sign of Azeroth below.

Apart from being called "Netherspace" in-game, is there anything known about this place from books, or RPGs, etc? any speculations? -- Raze 02:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It might be some residue from Sargeras's presence; he could've opened a gate to the land of the Burning Legion, and you're actually entering it. A weak possibility, but one nonetheless. --Sky (t · c · w) 04:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Can i post my suggestion? Karazhan was known to lie in a NEXUS OF LEY LINES, that means karazhan was not found in one location, it is found in other places rather than Azeroth, so the netherspace might be proof of karazhan being in a nexus of ley lines. -- Thuzadian 20 jan. 2009 8:30


 * Sure it might be one of the legion's worlds, that would also explain how the new inhabitants of Karazhan had arrived. Although if that were the case, Kil'jaeden might simply be able to come through instead of going through all the trouble of being summoned. If you follow this logic, maybe Malchezaar and gang had actually come in through the front door, discovered netherspace, and are now trying to figure out how to use it. -- Raze 01:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what so weak about that guess. Why haven't the rest of the Legion come through? Now that I think about it (and after seeing a vid of some of the fight), it looks kinda like they're in Outland; one of those obscure rocks that never has seen another soul after the breaking. --Sky (t · c · w) 02:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Its my understanding that this is netherspace and there is reference to Karazhan standing as a blazing beacon in the void and the Demonic Presence that came (The Prince). -- Shroom 12:25, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Note that Malchezaar's room is also known as "Netherspace" which is probably the chief reason why Malchezaar can summon infernals. Istvan of Rexxar 11:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There's probably some relation to the Twisting Nether with it, perhaps a week point where some were able to breakthrough into Azeroth; Kil'jaeden might simply be too powerful to simply cross over at this particular location, or perhaps this is a less well known entrance that happened to be stumbled upon by Malchezzar and, with a new entrance to Azeroth, he intends to try and take power for himself? After all, surely Kil'jaeden wouldn't allow another man'ari to claim the title of Prince, would he? The fact that he claims to be prince of the man'ari makes it seem like he's trying for some sort of power grab. -Scieran 13:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Demon Icon
I'd say there are a fair number of Demons in Karazhan. I tried to add a Demon icon under Races, but I was unsuccessful. Perhaps someone with a little more knowledge beyond what I have can do it? Stoptherobots 14:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * On behalf of not finding an icon, that's because there's no generic 'Demon' race and hence no icon for it. About the number of demons, 3 bosses, yes, but otherwise mostly minion-type (imps) or 'feral' like the hounds in Servant's Quarters. Yet, there aren't that many Ethereals either. I think, since e.g. Magtheridon's Lair has Pit Lord listed though it's only one boss (the only and last one, admittedly) I could be argued to add at least Eredar and Satyr. Well, I'll add it now, it will be removed if it's not fitting in the eyes of the majority :) ~  16:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason not to list the entirety of the races that can be reliably found there. This includes demons, dragons, and whatever fleshbeasts are. Istvan of Rexxar 11:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Karazhan's 3rd portal entrence
I was looking at karazhan's overworld tower with wow map viewer when I noticed that there's a gryphon roost with an instance portal next to it at the top part of the tower. Anyone have any info on this portal/flightpath? or is it possible this had a link to kara's original dungeon layout before it was changed to what is it in now? - Tenchworks 19:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Originally, way back when they first designed Deadwind Pass and decided that Karazhan would be an instance someday, Blizzard had planned to add a flight point so Horde and Alliance could get to the instance easily (they're doing much the same thing with Zul'Aman in 2.3). Somewhere before BC beta, they decided that this was a bad call for whatever reason and scrapped the idea. The flight point graphics (grypphon roosts and so forth) have been there since the creation of Deadwind Pass, but there is currently no reason for them to be there. It is impossible to get there, even with slowfall/levitate (I tried this), so I guess it's just eyecandy now, like the Naxx instance portal in Stratholme. NYET! 18:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It WOULD make sense to have a flight path up there... after all, in The Last Guardian Medivh and Khadgar take a few flights off the top of the tower on gryphon-back. ~Don't say Retnoob, say Peregrine 20:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If anything, they should just have it on the tower next to the back door Istvan of Rexxar 11:35, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The third instance portal has no connection to the instanced area. You cannot "step out" of that portal from within the actual raid instance. Also note that the actual instance is larger than the tower model placed in the non instanced world. The raid instance would never ever fit into that tiny tower within the deadwind pass, but that is just a little flaw related to the map design. ;-) Privatekey 00:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd attribute that, lore wise, to the magical nature of the tower, following the concept of the TARDIS from Doctor Who - larger on the inside than the outside. Given the fact that all leylines in Azeroth converge there and there seems to be some very powerful magic at work, it's quite plausible. -Scieran 13:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Reference: The Name of the Rose?
Is the design of the Karazhan Library a reference to the forbidden library in The Name of the Rose? I just watched the movie yesterday, and I was stunned by the resemblance in the labyrinthine stairways, the large, empty spaces between them, the numerous rooms with books lying all around... Dorenthas 20:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, didn't think of that - good eye! --Joshmaul 22:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * hey strange I didn't think about that, you're probably right! --Lo&#39;oris (talk) 10:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Contradictions
It seems to me that some of the contradictions (not all. The one about the village is spot on, and bloody weird) could possibly be attributed to previous tenants. It's made clear earlier in the article that Medivh was not the first to inhabit the tower, nor did he build it. Presumably whoever did build it actually asked for a Banquet Hall and a place to put his Harem, etc. etc. Since we can assume most of them were part of the original design, it stands to reason that they were desired by the original occupant (whoever that was!).

On a related note, Karazhan has a murky history, but isn't the same true of Humans themselves before their wars against the trolls? Darien Shields 01:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC) 'third portal' thread above.-- 00:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Ghosts, or Memories?
The "spirits" in Karazhan, such as the party-ers and dancers - would they be "ghosts" - that is to say, spirits of beings that have not yet left the physical realm even though their bodies have long since died - or "memories", which is to say, fragments of the past that have somehow begun to intrude on the present? Medivh's explanation of Karazhan as an hourglass, with bits of time as the grains of sand, occasionally getting out of order and bumping into each other, as well as Khadgar's experiences in the tower, seem to support the memories theory, but they are classified as "undead" so they could be ghosts. Any insight? ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 02:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * In-game mechanics don't always equal lore, so don't measure that too highly. I'd say that they're neither, or at least some of them are- the real Khadgar spoke to the real Medivh, several years apart. From Khadgar's perspective, Medivh was a ghost- from Medivh's perspective, Khadgar was a memory. In fact, they were both, and neither.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 02:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Architecture
It's only me or Karazhan architecture seems very similar to Ulduar, only a little blackened and ruined? And the presence of the Maiden of Virtue perhaps explains who were the former inhabitants/constructor of it? --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 12:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Unable to under the tower.
It seems that I'm unable to get under the tower now. (which might be a good thing) Not sure if they fixed this or what. The Alchemic Warrior of Travels (talk) 02:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I would ask around on forums or wherever maybe, and update the article if necessary. --Bellocois (talk) 02:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Divide?
What about to divide to Karazhan (lore) and Karazhan (instance)?--Mordecay (talk) 17:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Pre-BC version?
If you watch some videos on YouTube that seem to be linked to that world explorer thing (the one where you can look at the terrain of the zones and is used in Machinima) there's what looks like an older version of Karazhan that's this big, spiky tower... here: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Medivh-Tower-Old-Karazhan-9-355422987. What's the deal with that exactly? Should it not be mentioned in the Trivia part of this article? Meganerd18 (talk) 21:15, 13 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It was an alpha model. It can be mentioned, but the image seems illegitimately obtained.-- 21:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Split suggestion, take two
I would think that with the extensive history of the tower as well as the attention Karazhan is getting in Legion, there is enough information to warrant splitting this into a lore article and a raid article. -- 18:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:57, 29 July 2016 (UTC)