Talk:Othmar Garithos

According to the Wc3
According to the Wc3's World Editor and the Unit's speeches in the campaign he was Lord Garithos.

Garithos' Death
It says in Lord Garithos' death, "Sylvanas instantly ordered Varimathras to kill Garithos, which he did with no reluctance. His body was then cannibalized by ghouls.", when Varimathras killed him, he didn't decay, he dissapated (what heros do when they die)... What the heck?

It did dissipate, but his bones remained. Then the ghouls ate the body. This is a special case, made so by Blizzard. StarShade 17:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Game mechanics aren't the same as lore. --


 * Er yes, that's what I should have said.;; So in-game it may have looked as if he dissipate, but in lore he simply fell and the ghouls ate his remains.

Garithos the Hero
Garithos was a true hero, he took a situation of inevitable doom and created an organised resistance. He took back Dalaran and nearly took back the City of Lordaeron. Shouldn't there be monuments to him?--Mannerheim 03:31, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Yes, he was brave for trying to save Lordaeron but he also despised everyone who wasn't a human. This guy is the reason why most high elves became blood elves and joined the Horde. Thanks to Garithos, the Alliance now has another powerful enemy. I wouldn't expect anyone- Alliance or Horde- building monuments for him. --TM41 22:40, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

And he was stupid too! Mr.X8 01:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually most high elves became blood elves long before Garithos was in control, due to massive loss of high elves by the scourge and destruction fo Quel'Thalas. Go play TFT again... Garithos just has the distinction of forcing the blood elves out of the Alliance.03:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

A brave racist general who can organize the pitiful remnants of a utterly defeated kingdom and retake a city and some ground, is still a racist. Likewise he couldn't have been that smart, he allied with the Forsaken and was gullible enough to believe Sylvanas' lies.--Nurizeko

No, Baggins. I wont go play TFT again. The term "blood elves" was just a name until Garithos kicked them out of the Alliance. "Long before Garithos was in control?" actually, it was less than a year... --TM41 21:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't even have it, sorry man


 * TM41, actually it was about a year, give or take a few months (although, this is one of those murky timeline issues actually), still a pretty long time, imo. In anycase, there are plenty of sources that state that the moment Kael named himself blood elf, 90% of the elves high elves followed his action and became blood elves, forsaking their high elf heritage.


 * From a letter written by a high elf, Ramao around the moment Kael'Thas declared himself a blood elf, while he was still in Quel'Thalas, and before he went to Lordaeron to help Garithos;


 * ...few others also survived the assault. Although sad, they were also… angry. Vengeful. Different, somehow.You remember Prince Kael’Thas? He leads the elves now, being the last elf of noble birth. He calls his people “blood elves,” supposedly in homage of the dead. I am glad they no longer think of themselves as high elves, for they certainly are not. Melena, they plan to raze the forest - all of it! “We will not let the Scourge enjoy their plunder!” declares Kael’Thas. Travesty! I will try to stop this folly, but I doubt that I will be successful. These blood elves are crazed, manic, inflamed by vengeance and fueled by this unnamable need that seethes within our consciousness. They will go on with their plans despite my efforts. They may even try to slay me. Yet I will do what I can.


 * ...and further explanation to the burning of the woods of Quel'Thalas;


 * The high elves lost at least 90% of their population in the Second and Third Wars. The embittered survivors, calling themselves “blood elves,” resolved that the Scourge would not relish its victory. They set fire to their beloved forests...


 * However there is more sources that state that there were big changes to blood elves when they first were lead by Kael'Thas;


 * Prince Kael’thas was once a respected member of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran. He was an accomplished wizard and a hero of the high elf kingdom of Quel’Thalas. Yet when the elven kingdom was destroyed and the high elves pushed to the edge of extinction, Kael’thas and his surviving brethren grew dark and brooding. Renaming his followers the blood elves...


 * and


 * Not all high elves who survived Arthas’ purge of Quel’Thalas went with the Alliance to settle in Theramore. Many stayed behind in hopes of driving the Scourge from the area, to no avail. They became very bitter when the Alliance went to Kalimdor to fight the undead and never returned to help them defeat Arthas and his army. They hate the Alliance for deserting them. These high elves have renamed themselves “blood elves” in memory of their fallen companions. As they struggled to stay alive amid the Scourge, the effect of being away from their Sunwell began to take its toll on the elves, and many became brooding and dark. To give his people hope, Prince Kael’thas, a high elf noble, embraced their Highborne ancestry. They decided that because their already formidable arcane magic talents failed them in defending their homeland, they needed to find a course that would grant them even more power. Although they hate the demons that destroyed their homeland and caused the Alliance to abandon them, they see the demons as resources of raw power and magical knowledge and are obsessive about hunting them down. Their common method of going about things is to hunt down the demon, get whatever knowledge from it that they can — using whatever means necessary — and then dispose of it. It quickly became clear that the blood elves’ numbers would only diminish; they had no homeland, and they were constantly fighting powerful enemies. Hope arrived in the form of Illidan Stormrage...They joined with the naga in Illidan’s army and aided him in their former city of Dalaran and later in Northrend... When the high elves heard what Arthas had done to Quel’Thalas, they assumed that their friends, relatives and lovers had died in the carnage. They hoped for survivors, but lacked the means to send aid. When the blood elves made their appearance, the high elves had great reason for concern The blood elves nurse bitterness toward the humans for leading the Alliance to Kalimdor and not returning for allies left behind.... A small group of high elves survived Arthas’ razing of Quel’Thalas and the Sunwell’s destruction. Caught in the midst of the Scourge, the elves struggled to survive, bereft of their homes, their allies and their families. One band of survivors, led by the wizard Kael’thas, so deeply grieved for the fallen that they named themselves “blood elves” to honor the dead. Desperate and devoid of magical foundation, the blood elves soon turned to other sources for power.


 * and


 * Blood elves are a desperate race who were once high elves. During the Third War, King Arthas’s Scourge sacked Quel’Thalas and shattered the elven race, slaying more than 90% of the high elven population. Prince Kael’thas Sunstrider was studying magic in Dalaran at the time of the disaster. When he heard what had happened, he quickly returned home and took command of the survivors. Kael’thas renamed them “blood elves” in honor of their fallen kin. Prior to the Sunwell’s destruction, all high elves everywhere were constantly bathed in its magical power. Now bereft of this arcane energy, the blood elves (and high elves) suffered. Kael’thas claimed that they would soon die without another magical source to replace the Sunwell. The blood elves therefore set about learning to drain magic from alternative sources. Soon, the blood elves clashed with the Scourge and the Amani trolls, who were making inroads into former elven territory. The blood elves defended their homeland, and eventually, having reestablished a degree of safety to their land and prevented their society from degenerating, Kael’thas left. He took a group of the strongest blood elf warriors and spellcasters and joined the Alliance against the Scourge. They were eager to revenge themselves on the undead forces. However, bigotry prevented the human forces from seeing the aid the blood elves could bring to their fight. Imprisoned and sentenced to death by the humans who had commanded them, the blood elves escaped, fled to Outland, and joined Illidan Stormrage’s forces.


 * and
 * Many of the high elves journeyed with Prince Kael’thas, the last leader of the Sunstrider dynasty...These elves eschewed their high elven ancestry in search for some way to placate their magical addiction and became the blood elves. Finally, the surviving high elves, calling themselves blood elves, resolved that the undead would not enjoy their victory and put the trees [blackened woods/ghostlands] to the flame.


 * and


 * They were bathed in power every second of every day. Some high elves never knew anything else: they had the Sunwell all their lives, up until recently. Now that the Sunwell is befouled, every single high elf suffers acute pangs of withdrawal and having a hard time of it. Some of them know why. Some of them don’t. This feeling inspired the schism that created the blood elves, who far outnumber the high elves. Blood elves have a different set of priorities and behaviors than high elves and no longer consider themselves high elves. Still, an arcane tradition links the two races, and arcanists appear often among both.


 * Obviously the high elves who remained high elves didn't think the blood elves was just a name, they thought they were something different. They already thought Kael'thas was mad. The blood elves were already siphoning magic from demons and whatever they could find in Quel'Thalas to drain (the blood elf racial ability), long before they met up with Illidan and his naga forces. I haven't even covered every quote on the issue...Baggins 18:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Self Appointed
There a source on Garithos naming himself Grand Marshal? Granted its been a few months since I played TFT, and my copy has gone missing so I can't check myself, but it seems like another attempt to make Garithos seem less important than he was. The allaince tries to make him out to be a lone bad apple, when infact he controled a sizable force of human soldiers who seemed to share his veiws on the other races. Denying that he actually earned his rank seems like another way to sweep a part of allaince history that they'd rather forget under the rug. Ofcourse, if I'm way off base and there's a source saying he named himself commander, I'll shut up.Tweak the Whacked 10:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, I point out that there is no way in the Nether that you can say his human troops agreed with him about non-humans. You might actually be right: this contradiction, depending on source, could be flavor lore, just as you said, an attempt to sweep embarassing history under the rug, though from in-universe. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 17:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * True, I can't account for the opinions of every human under his command, but I can think of two examples off hand that show that atleast some of them did, the messenger he sent to tell Kael that he had to hold the line, but they were taking the bulk of his support, made racist comments against the elves(oddly enough, that messenger used an elf model, but was definatly human), and the humans that were guarding Kael after he was imprisioned also echoed Garithos' opinions. The only other time his troops talked was when they informed him the dwarves where in trouble, and this is the only time anti-demihuman sentiments aren't displayed by his forces.Tweak the Whacked 19:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't recall him making any racist comments, but I suppose his attitude could be seen as scorn (though for who is unclear). The emissary model you refer to was a retooled elf priest ( half-elf? )-_ Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 23:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I seem to remember him making a comment about the elves ears/hearing, which can be taken as a racial slur inuniverse(as per day of the dragon), though I could be wrong. And yes, the model was the slightly altered elf priest which was used as a "messenger" in a few missions, the one who delivered Arthas' orders to return from Nothrend before he burnt the ships used the same model, as, I believe, did the elf runners that Sylvannas sent to Silvermoon to warn them of Arthas' approach.Tweak the Whacked 03:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, this one carried a staff, and the high elf runners wore less elaborate clothing. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 04:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Infact The Emissary was the one that recalled arthas troops and the one that recalled Kael'thas troops, he has the same model and even the same name in both cases, the only difference is the voice, it could be that are two different emissaries or that they couldn't recontract the voice actor. In Quel'thalas a high elf named simply Priest used the same model too, he was a prisioer of Arthas and explainen that Quel'thalas was defended by gates and trees, and he didn't tell any insult but the attitud he use is like rasist and many of his warriors were rasist but not all of them. Benitoperezgaldos

Ok, beating a long dead horse here, but I was going over a few of my old contributions to see if any new info needed to be added to them, and I realized that I never got an answer regarding a source that says Garithos was self appointed. I'd also like to point out that the alignment noted in his infobox, while likely correct, is incorrectly sourced. Page 182(the 184th page in the manual of monsters) has the Stats for Kel'Thuzad, page 184 has the stats for the Lich King. Kel's alignment is listed as Lawful Evil, but neither page mentions anything about Garithos. So I'm going to go ahead and remove that.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 08:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * To follow up on Tweak's concern, I also haven't found any source saying Garithos was self-appointed and neither that he used to be one of Terenas' royal knights. I noticed a stray citation from Cycle of Hatred that doesn't seem attached to anything but I've read CoH and Garithos was never mentioned. If no one can back this up I suggest revising that opening paragraph. Dylan Bissel (talk) 23:19, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Status
I don't get it, is he dead already or is a Death Knight as it says on the infobox?--Andersmusician talk  20:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It says, "Dark Knight" not "Death Knight". Read what a dark knight is.Baggins 08:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Redeemed in Lore?
Lord Garithos' prejudice against the Blood Elves seems to be completely vindicated in World of Warcraft.

The majority of Blood Elves never saw Garithos or any of his troops, and none of the playable Blood Elves had any connection to Garithos or anyone associated with him.

At the same time all of the Blood Elves sentenced by Garithos to die at Dalaran are sentenced to die by A'dal, and the adventurers, and the Alliance/Horde.

Does this mean that Blizzard decided that Garithos was right and turned everybody's favorite person to hate into a hero?

If so then that just ruined my favorite missions of The Frozen Throne, since without a rediculously rascist idiot in command those levels aren't funny anymore.

.LangstonTheCoward


 * Actually, it means that the same blood elves who were the targets of Garithos later joined forces with the Legion and became enemies of life itself. The idea that Blizzard said "Garithos was right, the blood elves should just die" is one of the most absurd lore theories I have ever heard. Note also that Garithos was racist against all non-humans, whereas the Naaru aren't racist at all. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 05:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So wouldn't that mean it would have been a good thing had Garithos executed the Blood Elves?

The vast majority of the Blood Elves you targeted by Garithos are with Illidan, and are enemies of the Burning Legion, only the Blood Elves who followed Kael after his return to Quel'thalas are Legion.

You killed almost every Blood Elf Garithos would have killed, and you are good. --LangstonTheCoward


 * Here's an analogy for you Langston: a young black child is beaten up every day by his racist step-brother despite his frequent efforts to make peace. Finally he decides to run away from home to escape; eventually joining a violent street gang to better protect himself. He comes to appreciate his new family and even enjoy his new life, and works his way up to leadership. After years of waiting he decides it's time to take his revenge and returns home with his gang of buddies. He proceeds to kill not only his step-brother for assaulting him as a kid, but also the rest of his family for failing to help him. However, shortly after he is shot and killed by a police officer called to the incident by a neighbor.
 * There's no doubt that this guy was a murderer, but it would appear that this was mainly due to his step-brother's actions several years previous. Though the police officer can justify his use of force to prevent further bloodshed, would the step-brother have therefore been vindicated had he beaten the boy to death when he was younger? Think about it. -- 15:33, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, Langston, the best and brightest of Kael's forces defected and became the (heroic) Scryers. For the most part only the desperate, the weak-willed, and the corrupt are left with Kael or Illidan. So no, he was still quite wrong. -- Jetrauben

Naming Policy
Shouldn't Garithos be covered by WP:NCA rather than WP:NNA? He was a playable WC3 hero, not a WoW NPC. Egrem (talk) 05:53, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * He is a WC3 hero only, rarely appeared in books or stories and never under is full name.
 * The cannot be named Othmar Garithos imo
 * 06:12, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Why not? We never had his full name but now we do, and the charatcher articles should have the first instead of only the last one. Plus now we also have Garithos father so we can't have two characters with the exact same name article.--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:39, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It's a character with a full name, thus it falls into WP:NCA. -- 17:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)