Talk:Calia Menethil

Fate
...What happened to her? --Kakwakas 12:24, 29 Nov 2005 (EST)

Blizzard never addresses it. We've got only fan speculation on that. She may have been married off to some lord, or she may be dead. (NORMAL dead, not undead)- Ragestorm


 * Most likely dead, if you go with the cliches (I hate that word, how is it spelled correctly again?). A heroes family-members almost always die tragically: By accident, getting murdered, or by natural cause but with a tragic revelation on the deathbed if it suits the further plot, By illness if they don't suit it anymore. So I beleive we can say Calia died of illness. Oh, and she has not been retconned from the story, as she is mentioned in -Alliance Player's Guide- page 139--Maibe 07:50, 30 October 2006 (EST)
 * I'm assuming something happened to her during her betrothment to Deathwing, aka Lord Prestor. Perhaps when he was discovered to be a dragon in disguise he killed her or something. You know how dragons like eating virgin sacrifices and what not. hehe ;) --Anticrash 22:11, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

Lol,Blizz needs to bring her back...As the leader of the Argent dawn. it would provide some intresting conflict.

Dont expect Blizzard to bring her back as leader of the Argent Dawn, as she most likely lived during at least some of the second war (havent read DotD) she probably got a searing hate for the orcs as all other Lordaeronians (or whatever its called) and as the Argent Dawn remains indepent between the Horde and Alliance she coud not lead it. -Rovdyr

Sadly, it seems Blizzard forgot about her. A quote I saw once on the WoW message board was "Arthas has a sister?" which was attributed to Chris Metzen. I can't confirm if this was a joke or a real comment ;). It's kind of ironic that after her introduction in Day of the Dragon, her little brother pretty much stole the spotlight in the series. (Omega2010 (talk) 02:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC))

The 'girl' from Horde's players Guide
I doubt the mentioned girl is Calia...From the other sourcebooks we know DotD was set in year 8, when Calia was some years from her 15th birthday (15, as we know, is the age human children reach adulthood). The 3rd war started a good 13 years later, so I doubt she would still be called -girl- the time that story is set.--Maibe 11:33, 25 December 2006 (EST)

I have the book, though I haven't read that story. I'll have to see if it calls the "princess" a girl. If it calls her a girl or says that princess is young, I would have to agree with you.Baggins 11:39, 25 December 2006 (EST)


 * Just checked before typing. It clearly says -girl-. So, princess could also be a pet-name...perhabs the girl is Trevor's girlfriend or daughter...--Maibe 11:43, 25 December 2006 (EST)

Could be, or she's a princess of one of the other six human kingdoms. In anycase I don't think the info belongs here. Maybe put it under an article on Trevor for now?Baggins 11:46, 25 December 2006 (EST)


 * Might be an good idea.--Maibe 16:15, 25 December 2006 (EST)

You up for the task? Kind of busy working on other articles right now. BTW, trevor's story is interesting as it goes into idea of light vs. shadow.Baggins 16:16, 25 December 2006 (EST)


 * I shall read the whole story again first. then I shall try. Never wrote a complete entry before...--Maibe 16:30, 25 December 2006 (EST)

I think we should not read too much into the word girl, if the woman is the princess and recognizes the priest -which she did- we might argue that Trevor was a known figure at the Menethil court and thus quite old. Kind of like an old man calling his grandchildren boy and girl. --Sander 12:43, 27 December 2006 (CET)


 * But if we take that the side-stories so far always made a difference between girl and woman...It's not Trevor who calls her -girl- it's the story.--Maibe 07:01, 27 December 2006 (EST)

One of the things I find curious about the short story in HPG is that Trevor mentions that he "learned to wield the spears of the Light in the First War" (quoted almost literally). Not really useful info about the identity of the "princess", but it means he was maybe a Cleric of Northshire when alive, and fled to Lordaeron with Lothar, thus meeting the court of Lordaeron and the Menethil family. Pure speculation though, and it would fit better on an article about Trevor than about Calia Menethil.--Morgaur 17:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Retaking Lordaeron
What would REALLY be great is if the Scarlet Crusade finds Calia. There could be a power struggle that allows the uncorrupted crusaders to get back on top. The Crusade would then be able to unite the remaining humans of Lordaeron (Scarlet Crusade, Alliance and Argent Dawn). Mannerheim


 * Another Battleground? Humans vs. Forsaken based conflict. Btw. Scarlet Crusade won't unite with Argent Dawn due to the former being led by Balnazzar and the latter being the uncorrupted part of the former who left it (there's something about it written in relation to the Corrupted Ashbringer).08:44, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * Right now, the Scarlet Crusade actually has already engaged in diplomatic talks with the Argent Dawn to do just that. Don't think that every Crusader is corrupted. Commander Marjhan looks fairly normal to me. I also highly doubt that the Crusaders actually are aware of Dathrohan being Balnazzar - else it would have become public knowledge long ago. Tulon 20:30 07 April 2007

call me crazy but isnt it possible that she died & rose into undeath it sounds like something Arthas would do plus it could make an interesting plot twist if she then joined the Forsaken perhaps being trained as Sylvanas' heir?

Assuming that undead die of illness or old age... --Mannerheim 23:43, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it would be cool if she had a son who rose to reclame Lordaeron from the forsakan User:IloveWhitemane


 * I have an awesome theory about what might happen to her or what happened. There are rumors about that she had been rescued from the Undercity. It was a paladin and an undead priest. I do not know what time zone it is, it may be late wotlk, early CATA, I do not know. But if she survived so she may have been transferred to Tirion Fordrings patronage in secret. What happened next is fun to speculate, because there are many outcomes of the story. She may have been trained to be a paladin and Tirion's successor. Or she and Tirion may have fallen in love for each other. King Tirion, and Queen Calia. It would be really cool. She and Tirion builds up and restore the Western and Eastern plague lands which will become a new realm. Maybe they have a son, Terenas III ... ;) Naaaa now I'm being silly, but if she is trained to become a paladin, She would be a cool character(I hope). --Mirdamor (talk) 21:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

An Idea for a quest.
This probaly wont happen since it involves killing Silvanas. In Triful Glades you find a lone human woman (Wearing rags or something a peasent would have). She offers you a favor to go to the capital city ruins. In order to assassinate the Banshee Empress (Silvanas is technically an empress since she conquored the town from Bal) Bring her to the city and in a boss fight or using a sniper rifle KILL THE BANSHEE. --The last Alterac 09:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

King Terenace was not an emperor and he ruled alot more of Lordaeron than Sylvanas gadget 20:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Empress by conquest, not empress by ruleing a lot.-- 20:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Queen of Stormwind Rumor
I have recently read a rumor about her having married Varian Wrynn prior to the third war. It is an interesting theory (in my opinion) supported by several facts:
 * 1.- Nothing is known about Varian's wife identity.
 * 2.- Nothing is known about what has Calia been doing since the story told in DotD.
 * 3.- His father Terenas wanted her to marry with an important Alliance governor. Since a wedding between Arthas and Jaina Proudmoore was likely to be already planned, Daval Prestor dissappeared, Gilneas and Stromgarde left the Alliance after the Second War, and Dalaran was ruled by a council of mages, the only possibility left was the king of Stormwind.
 * 4.- She already knew Varian from the time he spent living in the court of Lordaeron.
 * 5.- She is older than Varian, however that wouldn't matter for an arranged marriage.

One of the most interesting things about this theory is that, if true, would make Anduin Wrynn the rightful heir of both the kingdoms of Stormwind AND Lordaeron. I would like to know your opinion about this, if you think it can be possible and if it's interesting enough to include it as part of the main article.--Morgaur 16:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I am Gooing Right this instant to the Alterac Mountains, I search each and every detail at the Alterac Kingdom for any Rumors of Calia, Or any Signs, I will take my Undead Rogue on the Horde (I am ally, got a 15 rogue to just be in Undercity) and will Search Undercity, Do you know where did Trevor Free her from? we must search there as soon as possible! For Cenarius! 19:02, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I doubt you'll achieve anything by doing that, but don't let me stop you. If any reference to Calia Menethil was made in World of Warcraft, chances are that by now it would have been included in the article. Also, the location you refer to - a prison block - is simply not in WoW. -- 08:51, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * She'd actualy be about the same age or younger than Varian (quite a bit of time passed between Tod and Dotd), but regardless none of those points justify speculation in the article imo. A lack of evidence contradicting a theory is not the same as evidence supporting it. 1 2 and 5 are that exactly. 4 is true but is far too...general, not a strong point. And 3 is a bit inaccurate, Terenas wanted her to marry a alliance govener, in this case Prestor, because Prestor planted that idea in his head. Even if Terenas felt that way w/o Deathwing theres other possibilities, such as nobles. I personnely think it would be great. Give the humans an incentive to retake the plaguelands, give Varian more power and authority in the story, tie up a loose end, etc...i could go on. But it still lacks any sort of support. Not to meantion it would be difficult to explain how we would just be finding this out. It's technicaly possible, but just not plausible. 09:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I doesn't think she would be a suitable candidate. Varian already got a heir to his kingdom. He doesn't have to marry someone because of his duty to his kingdom to produce a heir. Only way as I see it would be if they both falled in love with eachother.--Mirdamor (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Age Confirmation
Please provide a confirmation of age for Calia. I'd like to know where you got the information that she's at least 10 years older than Arthas, and how and where you found that she was some years off from her 15th birthday during Day of the Dragon? - Psypho 06:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

She is described as being a year or two away from being at a proper age for marriage in DotD. Arthas at the time is a "barely more than a toddler. Exact numbers are never used but "about ten years" is substaniated estimate. Her age is described on pages 24, 224, and 231 of Dotd. 23:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I do NOT know if we are allowed to post about this yet, but according to Rise of the Lich King, its only 2 years difference, Calia was to marry at age of 17 and at that time, Arthas was 14, so it comes to a 2 year age difference. User:Llanerian 21:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

"Unofficial" information from BlizzCon
So I'm starting this with a disclaimer that this was not an official announcement and thus can't be cited or put in the article, but I feel it's at least worth mentioning here on the talk page. While at BlizzCon I got a chance to talk with Senior Historian Evelyn Fredrickson, and when I asked her about Calia she said she's asked about Calia and "they haven't told me yet." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

"A possible candidate..."
Why do you insist on this wording? The preceding paragraph says she's probably dead, yet worded this way it implies that she's both alive and under an assumed identity (something that, let's be honest, has no real basis in lore), and then fails to offer any other options. That's why I initially used the "a popular theory" clarifier, and then changed it to simply "if she's still alive, she may be..." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Your last edit is agreeable. I simply had concern with the "oh, it's popular", which we cannot verify. --Sky (talk) 03:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Forsaken VS. Southshore
https://i.imgur.com/6vsmv8j.jpg If you read this anything could have happened. When she says the Forsaken were the ones responsible of destroying her city is because they were. When Arthas destroyed Capital City, she used the undead that would one day become the Forsaken. That's why she says that she hopes her husband and child became Forsaken instead of DYING as Scourge, meaning they were first risen as Scourge, meaning the town was attacked by the Scourge. It doesn't say the town was blighted by the Forsaken or when all this exactly happen. It also does not say that the town was destroyed, it just says it was attacked. --Ryon21 (talk) 20:22, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The key here is mentioning the blight. While the Scourge did use it, their version was wildly different from the Forsaken's. That the text specifically says "and then came the blight" instead of "and then came the undead" or something like that places great importance on the blight itself being there. And that immediately calls to mind the Forsaken attack on Southshore, because the blight ruined the town.
 * While you're correct that you could technically blame the Forsaken on a Scourge attack since they used to be Scourge, I think it's a dishonest twisting of the text. To take the text more upfront, what the paragraph says is that the Forsaken were the destroyers of her life/family.
 * As for Calia fearing her family became Scourge, the Scourge is still present in Lordaeron even now as we see in EPL questing and the Windrunner comic showing Ghostlands with them still there. ReignTG (talk) 20:36, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * But the blight is not a strong enough argument to point that. Writers use a lot of synonyms to refer to different things. It doesn't specifically say the Forsaken blighted the town. It also says "some time" instead of "some years". The attack would have happened 8-7 years after the fall of Lordaeron, that's too much time to just say "some time". Even though it may be dishonest the Forsaken were, under the Scourge, the ones who destroyed her life. And the Scourge is only present in the Plaguelands by the time of WoW-Cataclysm, that quite far from Southshore. --Ryon21 (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * My first thought is that it might just be best to put a disclaimer in the relevant pages, like "Calia Menethil claimed to Anduin Wrynn that 'the blight came' and she hoped her family became Forsaken intead of dying as Scourge etc., but it's unclear if this refers to the Forsaken attack on Southshore after the Cataclysm or a previously unknown Scourge attack on the town around the Third War". -- 21:09, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * How is the blight not a strong enough argument? By saying "and then the blight came" instead of "and then the undead came" the paragraph emphasizes that the blight was important, it wants us to focus on that. "Some time" and "some years" are both equally vague time periods, and don't contradict each other. If you admit yourself it's a dishonest reading to to stretch the Forsaken and Scourge thing instead of the more upfront "the Forsaken did it", then why use it as evidence? ReignTG (talk) 21:45, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * DeludedTroll's idea sounds like a fair compromise. ReignTG (talk) 21:45, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The Blight was important in the sense that people was turned into undead by it. I don't want to say 100% sure that it was the Scourge who did it, but we can't say that it was the Forsaken either. That's why I just put that the town was attacked by the undead so it could either mean the Scourge or the Forsaken. Neutral ground. Until Blizz or Golden clarify who it was better leave it like this. Maybe they did this in purpose just to confuse the readers so we don't know when it happened. :sigh: --Ryon21 (talk) 12:18, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

If it's any help, Rogers used the term blight for the thing that was used by the Forsaken on Southshore. Then the blight is mentioned to be still in Gilneas. There are only those three mentions of the blight in the whole book. Then the term plague is used twice all in relation to the Sylvanas version. Mordecay (talk) 07:04, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It's kind of strange; the word "Blight" and what we know from Cataclysm would seem to suggest the Forsaken attack, but the overall story and context seems to be suggesting it was a hitherto unknown Scourge attack. Some clarification from Blizzard is likely necessary. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Rereading it, the context, and especially the Scourge - Forsaken sentence kinda imply a Scourge attack on Southshore, so what I previously said about the blight, this blight would be the Scourge's. But yes, it is vague and clarification could do us good. Mordecay (talk) 04:55, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Found something or maybe nothing. Chapter 32: "The priestess stared at the ring and thought of her family. Of her child, whom she imagined as having grown up to be like Philia. Would she say "having grown up" if they were separated in Cataclysm instead of the Third War? --Mordecay (talk) 13:40, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yep, same thought here. People have asked Golden about the attack and as far as I know she has not answered anyone. It seems they want to keep this a secret because knowing it would give interesting information and fans would put the pieces together I'd guess. Tbh, it seems we'll have some kind of connection between Bolvar, Calia, Taelia, Uther, the Naaru and the Light that could turn into something scary/interesting.--Ryon21 (talk) 14:28, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * mmmm Taelia says this "The Scourge took my mother, my father, and my homeland before I was even old enough to understand." So she must be quite young I'd say. --Ryon21 (talk) 14:57, 25 June 2018 (UTC)


 * That would mean that Bolvar was a Lordaeron footman. Not sure if that's what I imagined for the Regent of Stormwind and then the Lich King :-/ --Mordecay (talk) 15:03, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't know if that will be the outcome so :shrug: Also we don't know anything about Bolvar's past before WoW only that he had a daughter so anything is possible. And about how he could escalate ranks so quickly, Thrall went from Slave to Free Orc to Warchief in no time. Nothing new in WoW :/ --Ryon21 (talk) 15:44, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * And suddenly, Bolvar leading the charge at the Wrathgate and Arthas has a new flavor to it! --Mordecay (talk) 16:57, 3 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Re:"Growing up to be like Philia" - Philia is 15 years old. The Third War was 12-13 years ago, since her child was born before that, it would fit nicely. -- MyMindWontQuiet 14:37, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the bigger issue is that it's essentially impossible that Calia wouldn't have heard anything about Bolvar being the regent of Stormwind or dying heroically at the Wrathgate, and if he was her husband she would be searching for her daughter in Stormwind and not the Undercity. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:02, 25 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Plot twist: Bolvar Fordragon wasn't his original name, he's just a random footman that got very angry at the undead and decided to steal Lady Mara's name :^) Xporc (talk) 11:10, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know how I didn't realize about this but... “You’re hoping that your husband and child, too, became Forsaken instead of dying as Scourge,” he said softly. “You’re hoping you’ll get word of them at the Gathering.” This phrase basically confirms Southshore was attacked by the Scourge. It wouldn't make any sense for her family to become Scourge if the attack was orchestrated by the Forsaken. --Ryon21 (talk) 01:25, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

--Ryon21 (talk) 03:29, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Princess
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg8ercnVoAAM0br.png:large People may call her Princes, but if she herself states she has given up on the claim, the occupation is no longer hers, even if in-universe others think she is. That this may change in the future? Maybe. But at the time these are her words. I mean, it's not the title I have the problem with, but that it is her occupation when it's not. --Ryon21 (talk) 10:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * She can still use the title (like she did in Shadows Rising) but if later in the story she explains that she had given up the claim to the throne, I guess it makes sense to add "foccupation". -- 11:06, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Now that we have the proper scene in the game. It's pretty much confirmed. If no one opposes, I'll put it on former occupations later. --Ryon21 (talk) 09:21, 9 September 2020 (UTC)