Talk:Blackhand

Old discussion
Doesnt it state in Tides of Darkness that Orgrim smashed Blackhand's head in with the Doomhammer? Yet on this page it makes inferences to his head being cut off instead. Anyone know the true story? Lodra 23:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * He could easily have done both, i.e. dispatching him with a blow to the head and then cutting it off to punctuate his victory. -- Dark T Zeratul 23:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Here's something I'm rather confused about. I could be wrong, but in Tides of Darkness doesn't it say that Orgrim officially challenged Blackhand for the rule of the Horde when Gul'dan went into his coma? It's just this article states that he lead a surprise attack instead. Any clarification? Thanks :) Warchiefthrall 22:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

The ToD novel says this: ''Doomhammer had not been pleased at being forced to kill Blackhand. He had been the warchief’s Second and sworn to fight beside him, not against him. But tradition allowed a warrior to challenge his chieftain for supremacy and Doomhammer had finally been forced to take that route. He had won, as he knew he must, and with the blow that crushed Blackhand’s skull he had taken control of their clan—and of the Horde.]] However, The History of Orcish Ascension specifies a surprise attack, and indeed the game shows shows something different.

This is just Blizzard retconning things again, even when there's absolutely no need to. *sigh* Irandrura (talk) 02:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, by making it a duel in single combat rather than backstabbing it makes Doomhammer seem a more honourable character, which gels more with the way Doomhammer has been portrayed since Warcraft 2 was released. Xarantaur (talk) 22:01, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Was Blackhand killed by Orgrim or by the shadow council?
In the eight mission of Warcraft Orcs & Humans it is told that the shadow council ordered the assesination of Blackhand and ascends you (Orgrim) to Warchief of the Horde, then in Tides of Darkness and in Warcraft II manual it is told that Orgrim kill him.Benitoperezgaldos 03:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what's called a retcon. -- Dark T Zeratul 09:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Horde
So again... what makes him affiliated with the Horde?--Mordecay (talk) 09:35, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, he was the first Warchief of the Horde. Fairly significant affiliation right there. Everen (talk) 09:42, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Fisrt Warchief of the current Horde? Really? --Mordecay (talk) 10:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep. The current Horde is really just a continuation of the Old, with an unbroken line of succession - Blackhand, Orgrim, Thrall, Garrosh. Despite his insistence that they've turned over a new leaf, Thrall's Horde is the direct continuation of -the- Horde, with him being named as Warchief by Orgrim. Everen (talk) 10:13, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * If anything. The king of Stormwind isn't part of the Alliance. Since it was only Stormwind at the time. This is the same Horde. [[Image:inv_helmet_44.png|22px]]  (talk contribs) 17:59, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, it is not a direct continuation. The warchief of the old horde was appointed by the shadow council, not by the previous warchief. The orcs probably don't really care about the regulations, and Thrall could theoretically fit the ancient definition of warchief, but he doesn't fit the term as it was reinvented by the shadow council. The latest person to fit the definition would be Kargath Bladefist, who, as a member of the inner circle of the shadow council, probably declared himself warchief. I'm going to make a note of this at the warchief article discussion as well. --Ijffdrie (talk) 21:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)


 * That is only if you define Warchief as "what the Shadow Council says", and not "the leader of the Horde". While the title was initially granted a certain way, all subsequent members have taken the title differently. Blackhand is a member of the same group as the current Horde, even though it seems weird with Thrall's Horde the way it is, and even with the slippery slope of retroactively applying things to the current playable factions.-- 00:25, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Blackhand comic
I asked because what we see here is the story from AU Draenor, as it was with the first part, don't we? This Blackhand seems... different from the one described in RotH, no? And while Micky confirmed LoW applies on MU as well, we don't have any confirmation for this comic. --Mordecay (talk) 18:44, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Blackhand may be different between the comic and RotH, but so is pretty much every chieftain. I just don't see any reason to think Blizzard would retcon all the others to be that way in the MU, but not Blackhand. It's safer to assume he's the same as well. ReignTG (talk) 18:49, 10 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, that section is from the Characters of Warcraft page (which is detailed in the comic). The format for those pages is 1st paragraph is general background common to both universes. 2nd paragraph after the break is stuff in WoD. Some of the pre-WoD background stuff is being retconned. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 18:53, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I was gonna edit the comic page to include links to both MU and AU pages of those characters, but couldn't think of an elegant way to do it. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:01, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

@Cravenlock re Gul'dan: Nothing says he didn't drink the demon blood in the MU. And even if he didn't, Blizzard is retconning some of the characters' MU backstories with WoD. There is a clear break in the page separating each part, that is not just a paragraph spacer. It separates backstory, from currently relevant info (can be seen on Tyrande's page). That backstory section applies to MU on other pages. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 21:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Blackhand name
It could either be moved to Speculation section. After a second thought I realized that the Legend story should be placed first because when Blackhand visited the village, Draka was a child. In the Blackhand comic, Orgrim was an adult and already had the Doomhammer (I don't believe that Draka is that young from Orgrim; thus the swith). In that legend comic he was already referred to as Blackhand. If the name thing is true, it could either be a retcon. In the comic, the name Blackhand was first used at that last page and that line is, at least, intriguing. I just asked Neilson and Brooks on it. Your thoughts?--Mordecay (talk) 18:08, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems like a retcon, yeah. I mean, I thought it was rather apparent when reading the comic that Blackhand only got that name after the battle with the ogres, since before that he was just referred to as "chieftain" by the others, and the whole "A new day, a new name" thing on the last page. -- 18:11, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Not just in that comic.

The elements, chaotic forces of nature that had allowed him to survive the ordeal, encased his fist in dark, heavy stone. He took a name worthy of it: Blackhand.
 * --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2015 (UTC)