User talk:Arrothin/Archive2

Warcraft III double images
Its good that you are replacing the dark tichondrious images. However, could you split them into two seperate images instead of just one?Baggins (talk) 08:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'm actualy just editing DarkTicondrius's, making them a little more bearable for the time being, but it's just temporoary. Eventualy i'm going to go back through and get better quality pictures of everyone. Like this one . And they will be seperate. 08:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Sweet... Well ultimate dream is if it would be possible for someone with the software to do it, to replace them entirely with animated gifs ;).Baggins (talk) 08:26, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see the desire for higher quality (this is why we have an eyesore on Bolvar's page), but why do we need to split them? I think it's a good idea to have the portrait and the model in the same image (unless it's a genuine screenshot). -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Better for gallery sections where alot of these screenshot stuff goes. Wide images sometimes wreck havoc. Also past images that I've requested from Warlock usually are for very nice closeup shots, so more details can be seen. He's going to get around to fixing those later. This usually means that the npc shot is a taller image, than the facial close up shots. This is only a stop gap until he updates the images with proper high resolution close ups.Baggins (talk) 19:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. Oh, on a related note, keep an eye on the Sylvanas article. I don't think that people will get carried away over the new model, but I'd like to be prepared for the worst. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * All I can say, its about time.Baggins (talk) 19:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I prefer the placeholder, though the new one is more consistent with other depictions. Apart from the hair, and where's the hood? -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 19:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't like the hair either, and a hood would have looked better.Baggins (talk) 19:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, DarkTicondrius showing that high elves and blood elves had their own vertion of every building in WCIII (when blood elves in WCIII were just red human buildings) was not needed. Not that he was a bad contributor.-- 19:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree on your last point. But agree on everthing else.Baggins (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The Doomhammer
I saw the in-game picture of the Doomhammer. It's amazing!!! Where did you get it? I looked around but can't find it... --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * After opening model viewer, on the left side panel go to Items > objectcomponents > weapon > mace_1h_doomhammer. 16:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thus it's not in-game? What does Thrall wield then? I noticed it's classified as 1 handed --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, i'm not sure. I don't have a lot of Horde chars and thus i've probably only ever spent and hour or two in orgrimmar. I can't tell from this angel what he is holding. 16:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Found: It's black all over the hammerhead. --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 17:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Brann Bronzebeard Avatar
Sure if anything is going to be added to the page, it should be cited beforehand... or at least marked as "presumed". BTW, luckily I have access to the pdfs of the books (which are easy to search through). So far there is no reference to "avatar" in any connection to Brann. The word search allows me to find every example of Avatar used in the Brann books. Generally speaking when Brann speaks of avatars, he's speaking of the avatar of Sargeras or Hakkar's avatar, or the Avatar spell/ability (very different from the class).

After I searched every one of the Brann books there was no reference to him calling himself an Avatar or of him using the ability (its limited to priests, mages and mountain kings). On a related note generally there isn't any references to the "dwarven avatar" class in the World of Warcraft RPG, i.e. the second edition (most references to the class are limited to the Warcraft RPG, i.e. first edition).

Actually, Brann is pretty notorious for not mentioning his class. Dark Factions doesn't even mention his specific class in his character section (although he does call himself a dwarven prospector).Baggins (talk) 10:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Search for skin or stone. Brann does indeed transform himself at least once when he comes under attack. I didn't at the time however realize dwarven avatar was a proper class as opposed to a informal nickname dwarves with the stoneskin ability are called. 11:09, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * All dwarves (or at least most can) can go into "stoneform" (aka stoneflesh or stoneskin). Just going into stoneform doesn't mean you have the Dwarven Avatar class, nor does it mean you are a mountain king. The ability to turn to stone is a standard racial ability that dwarves have (just like in the MMO).Baggins (talk) 11:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah Stop editing already haha can't get a word in edgewise :) LOL. Yea i get that now Baggins. 11:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I already took the citation thus I can't stop ;p From Dwarven avatar page: "...Most (dwarves) have discovered the ability to turn their flesh to stone for limited periods, but a few have persisted to unlock further secrets (further secrets aka Avatar).." --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 11:26, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I talked about the citation I already cut from Dwarven avatar and I can't paste before you posted here ;) --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 11:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thats already been discussed to death. I meant baggins on this page. Kept getting conflicting edits message. AND it just happened again. LOL 11:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually "further secrets" are secrets that dwarven avatars get in their upper levels, after receiving the stoneskin ability. Finaly leading up to the Iron Body ability.Baggins (talk) 11:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Comic appearances
Please treat the comic like any other source, if someone appears in it from the game. Use a "background" section title, and describe what happens in the story, and use. Please avoid out of universe descriptions like "in the World of Warcraft:The Comic", intead reference the specific issue. If you are not the one making the "World of Warcraft: The Comic" sections, buI apologize in advance, but perhaps you can help clean them up and turn them into proper background sections. Also remember if someone dies in comic, to change the status to "dead" in the infobox. If they survive, and it shows a clear progression set after events in WoW, change it to "alive".Baggins (talk) 17:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Meryl Felstorm
You added to Meryl's article that he was a member of the Council of Tirisfal. Now, where did you get that information? I didn't find it in the comic.. if it is, could you tell me the exact page upon which this information is revealed?  AMBER (RΘCK)  15:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * From the cast of charaters page at the back of the book. 17:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Vogin, where's he at?
Hey there. I just got an email saying you edited my page for my character Vogin, and now i can't find it anywhere? It's not where it was yesterday, and search results doesn't yield anything?
 * Nevermind, found it =P. By the way, feel free to comment on my story Stuffe (talk) 16:18, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Image Licensing
If you would start using them, it would be great =). 22:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Gotcha, will do. Sorry i know most of my edits lately have been getting sloppy. 22:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Titles
You seem like the kind of wikian who might enjoy this. I just added title - check it out! -Howbizr (talk) 21:31, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * OOOH awesome. Thank you :) 21:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Nifty composite pictures
Do you think you could make a couple of composite pictures like the ones you did for the dragonflight pages? We could use a composite picture for dwarfs page? As well as one for the earthen page (based on the three earthen model types)?Baggins (talk) 06:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure. What would we be talking here for dwarfs? Player (ironforge), wildhammer, dark, frost, and iron? 08:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya, Bronzebeard/Ironforge, Wildhammer, Dark, Frost, and Iron sound good. Though it could probably also show the "earthen" as well.Baggins (talk) 08:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Heres a real rough mock-up i did (Just saw the earthen comment i'll add em in). Any feedback? background, negative space, density, etc...? 09:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya, I'm liking what I'm seeing. Might be a little too much space in the middle, but I'm sure you'll come up with something that works well, once you experiment around. I think I'll use what you have so far in the dwarf page.Baggins (talk) 09:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, since you haven't gotten around to making the specific composite for the earthen page, perhaps for that page we could have a composite of the various colors of Earthen, showing off the different stone and earth colors for the various earthen types?Baggins (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yea was looking through the variations. Everythings a little hectic right now but i should have some time tonite. 19:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Nvm, here it is. 19:30, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Excellent. Hmm, the old-world earthen, is there more beard variety than that? Do they still have the short beard like many of the ones in the game used to have? ...or was the short beard replaced on of them in a later patch? If there is beard variety it might improve the composition to show some more beard designs. Also the earthen can wear clothes too? Maybe one or two based off of the elder spirits earthen added to the composite?Baggins (talk) 20:03, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Varian Article
I strongly prefer the sentence where it was, after all the other data of the first paragraph. It kind of wraps up the rest of the information, and leaves the paragraph on a stronger note than talking about his voice actor. Tevri (talk) 08:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree but the introduction is supposed to be a very short summary of the character his/her role. Three paragraphs is far too much, two is already pushing it. The first one does a nice job of summing Varian up and ends with his role in the alliance. The second paragraph is a few interestig tidbits. Going from lore > trivia > lore is very unfocused looking. If it really bothers you what i would recommend taking the second paragraph and working the first sentance there into the first paragraph and the second sentance (Voice actor) into the trivia section. In fact i think i'll do that. 09:43, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Tirion and Varian
Highlord Tirion Fordring is indeed a good friend of King Varian. In the quest "Where King Walk," Varian specifically says such:

Tirion: Remember, sire, by blood and honor we all serve.

Varian: Indeed old friend... Blood and honor. Were it not for this letter from Tirion, you would be a stain upon my floor.

By the Arthas novel (which was officially released just a little while ago), King Varian becomes a good friend of Tirion while he is living in Lordaeron. It was only this friendship that persuaded Varian to allow Death Knights into the Alliance. He wouldn't have done it for anyone else. Tevri (talk) 19:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Everyone from the second war calls each other old friend. That isn't enough to call him a companion. I didn't know however about their friendsip in the new book (mine still hasn't arrived, damn collector's edition). What exactly does their friendship entail? Keep in mind Varian knows a lot of people and has a lot of mentor and father figures. A few conversations doesn't make a companion. They had to have formed a deep relationship if were going to list them in the infobox. 20:31, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Just read it, don't see anything about Varian or Tirion sharing as much as a conversation. I'm sure they did meet at some point and probably think well of each other, but it wasn't in the book and isn't anywhere near enough to be called a companion. A companion is someone whose like a brother, top 2 or three good friends, tirion is probably somewhere in the 80s...90s. 00:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Varian and Arthas
Up until this point, the extent of the friendship between Arthas and Varian was unknown. But chapter 25 and 26 of "Arthas" as well as much later confirm that they were "best friends" for a great many years (up until Arthas turned). In fact, even as a death knight Arthas twisted many of Varian's words in his mind. You know the scene in the "Arthas' Betrayal" cinimatic when he grabs King Terenas, he is thinking of something that Varian once told him (and later how Varian hates him now). Perhaps it dosn't belong in the infobox (though perhaps it does), but it definatly needs some more face-time in the main article rather than a brief mention that is currently there. Arthas is one of the few people who consoles him after the death of his father, in fact. He even played a part in Arthas' acention as a paladin. A few excerpts for your viewing pleasure, although it's just a small bit of the Arthas/Varian interaction:

(Arthas' inner thoughts) "He'd finally begin serious training, perhaps alongside his best friend, Varian." - Page 25

(Varian and Arthas while sparing) "Arthas, I don't want to sound mean, but..." "I'm terrible." "I'm just suprised that you're athletic and fast." Arthas sulked: he knew Varian well enough to know that he was trying to soften the blow. He followed sullenly, hanging up his sword and and unfastening his protective gear. "In Stormwind, we start training when we are very young. By the time I was your age, I had my own set of armor specifically designed for me." "Don't rub it in," Arthas grumbled. "Sorry." Varian grinned at him, and Arthas reluctantly gave a smile back.

Arthas' inner monologue counts Varian as one of the few people (besides Jaina) who "really knew him and understood him," (as an adult) not even counting his own father in that regard.

Like I said, there's far too much for me to copy here, but from the moment Varian enters Lordaeron, they both hit it off pretty well. I wish I could just copy and past the respective chapters, lol.

Tevri (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I know, but the field is reserved for group members or lifelong companions. See what it says on the npc box templates talk page. Arthas was a close friend for a period of time, so he doesn't qualify. Writing all this out on my talk page is kinda pointless, i already know all this, and i didn't remove him from the article, just the infobox (and it definetly doesn't belong). If you think he deserves more facetime in the article...well what are you waiting for? Take what you wrote here, modify (wikify) it and find an appropriate spot for it. The Infobox is to be kept as lean and trim as possible, it is not a restatement of the entire article. 18:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Garona
I'm sorry if I had to discuss the changes done before making them. I just thought it was a good idea to put an art of the character's face in the infobox rather than a model, just like most of the articles are. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong i can see where your coming from, and i kinda agree. It's just that in the past with articles like Thrall and Grom there has been heated debate over the picture used. Often cinematics and cinematic renderings such as File:Thrall model.jpg has been used instead of art. Also i'm not sure about the priorities but i think a picture cropped from a comic page would be under a commisioned piece of art. I'd try and get ragestorms opinion on the matter as well as some others from regular lore editors such as ourselves, rolandius, anoob, sandwich etc... 02:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I started a discussion over at Forum:Infobox images. 03:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Igorkasparov
Thanks for cleaning up after him. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No prob. 21:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Image cleanup
I'm assuming you know something about image editing based on your contributions. If that's not the case, then ignore this. But I could use some help further cleaning up File:OnyxiaMG.png. If I replace all the white with alpha, the image will be too dark. But I'm not sure how to make the appropriate white background to preserve the white in the middle. You might want to start from File:OnyxiaMG.JPG which is the original. A shadow would also be a nice to have. 1:06 PM, 15 Aug 2009 (EDT)


 * Yea sorry i'm not the person who can help. I can take screenshots of model viewer images against background but thats it, and the latest image i added came directly from wow.com as it is. Sorry :( 22:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. 8:37 PM, 16 Aug 2009 (EDT)

Stormwind
I know the page was about the city and the info was slightly unrelated but "Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, former regent of Stormwind, has gone off to Northrend to command the main Alliance forces stationed there" Is false information because he's not stationed there because he's dead and further more he's not commanding alliance forces because they to... Are dead... So i thought it would make sense to add a little about that but im not sure, you can decide. Nicktehplank 15:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We really don't need any details past his role relating to the city and why he's no longer there. But you do have a valid point and thanks for bringing that to my attention. A simple rewording accomplishes that same without straying from the topic. 15:17, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Fine by me, thanks for atleast listening and quick responses! =) Nicktehplank 15:35, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Forsaken Faith
I agree with the second source since you consider anything Warcraft related conical. The first source is ambiguous and never specifically states "use of the light". It is not a conical source nor a source of any kind. You cannot call it such unless you can clearly show the npc is specifically talking about using the light and I cannot show a specific source stating otherwise. Pyrolight (talk) 04:53, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter what i consider canonical (my personal opinions might surprise you). Wowwiki has a policy of neutrality towards all official source, a policy supported by statements made by official blizzard representatives including Metzen himself. As for the second source the quest text itself is pretty explicit. I think you are trying to grasp at non existant straws there. 04:59, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Divine Magic
Say, I have noticed that you have removed the 'Arcane' from the Divine page, why is this so? I have thought it was stated in the RPG books that Arcane is part of Divine? Correct me if I'm wrong. ~Zamoonda. &#39;Eya (talk)
 * Arcane and Divine are opposites. And i mean that they are exact opposites. Whatever isn't Arcane is Divine. See Arcane, top paragraph. It the first chapter, in the intro, in Magic and Mayhem. 16:37, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

WC1 images
Hi Warthok. I noticed you merged two pictures of Medivh from Warcraft I here. But is it really correct? I mean, the Warcraft III images merged like that have the cleanup tag as they should be separated, I think that should also apply to the older games. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 16:23, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, i'm the one who kinda started seperating the images and have done it for quite a few WC2 ones as well. But i'm not really sure if it applies just to the Warcraft III images or the older games since the older game's image don't look quite as bad and less pixelated because of the lower quality. There several cases we still do use them just because two tiny images look akward and break the page. I may still move them to the gallery, i'm kinda in the middle of playing with the medivh article on the sandbox atm which is why i didnt mark medivh7 for speedydelete and might revert 6. I'll figure something out, just give me a sec. 16:30, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thank You's
I really appreciate all your advice and help as a new membe of WoWWiki -NoahSullivan77
 * You're very welcome. 21:30, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

I shall also thank Mr Warthok, I have used his advice a couple of times and it has worked out very well.--The last Alterac (talk) 03:02, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, i appreciate that. 17:25, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Dragonflight and Capitalization
Your voice is most welcome here

17:21, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Already on it but thank you. 17:25, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Guilds
Guilds go in the Guild namespace. See WP:GUILD. -- 01:01, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ugh i'm such a noob. I'm sure i've moved dozens of guilds into the Guild namespace, it just slipped my mind just now. 01:06, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Wei
Is there a particular reason that you've decided to just replace all of the infobox images with cuts from the Wei panorama? Some of them really aren't much better. -- Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:01, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't do all. Just Varian, Thrall, Vol'jin, Lor'themar, Magni, and Tyrande. Were those the problem?, because i thought those six clearly were better than their existing pictures. The other four (Cairne, Sylvanas, Velen, and Gelbin) i wouldn't just say they "aren't much better" i would straight out say are worse which is why i placed them in the articles but not the infoboxes. Other editors later went in and switched them out. 00:04, March 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I totally agree on the Thrall front, at any rate. I'm in two minds about Tyrande, Sylvanas and Velen. Anyway, dialogue is going, so no prob. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 05:12, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

What was wrong with my last edit of the Alliance Remnant?
I am sorry for the overlly long title for this talk thingy. You simply reverted the edit of mine with no comment, for that reason I shall revert your edit--The last Alterac (talk) 04:24, March 11, 2010 (UTC) Please disregard the above message that I commented in your talk section: I merely looked at the history of the Alliance Remnant page with out comparing, after comparing I have changed my mind and this section with the overly long title is now redundant or unnececary.--The last Alterac (talk) 04:30, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries. I agree it wasn't truely neutral. I just think removing all subjective language (racist) was the best choice, lest we accidently swing it too far the other way. 04:33, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

The funny thing is, I was just about to remove the comment I made about disregarding the first one. But yeah, an edit conflict occoured. Two questions I shall ask: Firstly; may I replace replace "Garithos commanded that all human and dwarven troops reported back to the front lines immediately" with "Infantry, cavalry and support teams"? Since that is the quote the emmisary uses. The final question: Is the fact that Kael Thas was late worth mentioning? Or would it risk skewing the article?.--The last Alterac (talk) 04:52, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The first is fine, however the second it seems to me Garithos was simply being an *^& and I didn't get the impression Kael'thas was actualy late, rather Garithos wanted to criticize him at any expense, or simply didn't like waiting, and Kael'thas knew arguing wouldn only make it worse. 05:00, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Remember how Kael Thas aided Mieve during http://www.wowwiki.com/The_Ruins_of_Dalaran mission It was because he was aiding the Night Elves in that mission is why he was late to meat up with Garithos. Also, Kael did try to argue with Garithos and the exchange went like this: Garithos: You are late, Prince Kael Thas. I thought you Elves prided your selves on punctuality Kael Thas: Me lord (I forget what he refers to Garithos in that line), there were these Night Elves from across the sea and... Garithos: I am not interested in your fanciful excuses...--The last Alterac (talk) 11:01, March 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then meantioning he was late is fine as long as its qualified by the fact he was under attack and outnumbered, and had to wait for assistance. Thus phrased in such a way that doesn't make the article sound like its being accusitory. For instance calling it an excuse, thus implying he was imept or incompetent, is not okay. "Excuse" was used by Garithos, not a third party omniscent voice. Though meantioning Garithos considered it an excuse (as long as it's phrased that way) is okay. Just stick to facts, not what one side or the other thought of the situation. And lets try and simplfy where we can and not get too wordy. 17:30, March 11, 2010 (UTC)