Talk:Nathrezim

Hebrew
Like most demonic names, this seems to come from Hebrew, and the "-im" at the end is a mark of hebrex plural. We maybe gotta say Nathrez (sing), Nathrezim (plur). By the way, I can't get what "Dreadlord" means. What's "dread" ?--Kirochi 14:38, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Dread means terror. --- TopDread 01:19, 27 February 2007 (EST)

"Dread" signifie "effroi" en français, c'est à dire la terreur, la peur. D'ailleurs dans warcraft III, les "dreadlords" sont des "seigneurs de l'effroi". Par contre, je n'ai jamais entendu parler d'Un Nathrez.
 * Oh you're french! Salut ^^

"Dread" means "effroi" in french, i.e. terror, fear. Elsewhere, in warcraft III, "dreadlords" are translated by "seigneurs de l'effroi". But I've never heard of "a nathrez".-- Veher18 24 April, 12:25 (CEST)

"Nathrez" probably isn't real Hebrew. BLizzard may have done some sort of research on the Seraphim, the Cherubim, or (most likely) the Nephilim, all of whom are also used in other fantasy genre games. I tend to think of the Dreadlords as the Blizzard version of Nephilim. I think the current convention is to use "Nathrezim" as a species label, and used "Dreadlord" for the singular. --Ragestorm 09:42, 24 April 2006 (EDT)


 * Quite likely Nathrez isn't real Hebrew (although it might be), but -im is definitely a Hebrew termination. Before Seraphim, Cherubim, and Nephilim were in games, they were in the Bible. As for "a Nathrez," it would (assumably) more likely to see "one of the Nathrezim." That's my thoughts on that. I think they're just a way for Blizzard to not use their imagination too much, taking Pit Lords from Diablo II. Schmidt 07:16, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Thanks to all. Salut Veher merci de m'avoir répondu en Français c'est plus facile ^^. I think I'll keepcalling them "Dreadlords", and thanks for the translation ^^--Kirochi 07:41, 27 April 2006 (EDT)

Nathrezim is an anagram of Mr The Nazi and bizarrely Hitler had the same number of supporters in the German_election,_November_1932 as there are people playing World of Warcraft Worldwide. Hmm World War.World of Warcraft.coincidence?
 * Please tell me that last bit was sarcasm. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Mephistroth
Why is Mephistroth's field presumed Lightning? --Ragestorm 13:42, 1 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Um, maybe because the one who posted this information didn't feel like showing us his sources ;-)--Kirochi 10:42, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

It's interesting to note that each Dreadlord have their own Orb (Example: Tichondrius has Orb of Fire). Sometimes their Orb symbolize their power (Example: Varimathras has Orb of Fire and he has Rain of Fire ability, they're both fire) but sometimes not (Example: Anetheron has Orb of Lightning but his magical field is demonic, not lightning). Our problem is that Mephistroth has Orb of Frost (I don't know why his field of magic is Lightning, he's clearly shown to has Orb of Frost, maybe it's changed by Blizzard?), this could mean his magical field is Ice (like in Varimathras' case) or other (like in Anetheron's case). As ice is mainly Undead's magical field, I think his magical field is not Ice. I presume that it's Demonic, just like any other Dreadlord. Anyone agree? --Malygos 06:42, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Yeah, I say go with demonic. Just because Mal'ganis used an Orb of Venom, doesn't mean he uses nature magic. The fact that Varimathras has an orb of fire and can cast rain of fire is purely incidental. His magic is still demonic, not elemental. There's no reason Mephistroth should be any different. ---Flamestrider 15:31, 14 January 2007 (EST)

Cleaning up this page
Just one look at this page is enough to tell me that the first paragraph certainly needs work. First off, what the hell is a "corruption-derived ability?" The line about Nathrezim "[doing] it in the dark is simply ridiculous. All in all, the paragraph doesn't say much except that Nathrezim are demons and that they are subtle rather than overt in their methods.

Also, what exactly is the point of the passage about "standard dreadlord armor?" In RTS games, all units of a certain type look exactly the same. You might as well claim that Arthas wore "standard Death Knight Armor." It seems to me that somebody simply pulled this line out of his ass.

I'm going to take the liberty of changing these two sections; if anybody has an issue with that, please let me know.

--Flamestrider 15:21, 14 January 2007 (EST)-


 * Excellent work, I say! 15:37, 14 January 2007 (EST)


 * While we're at it...where, exactly, does it say that they're genderless? (Aside from in this article, that is). 09:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Where in the article does it say that?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "Despite the title of 'dreadlord', they are neither male nor female." Seeing as we don't seem to have anything official to support that...mind if I nuke it?  23:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Succubus+Dreadlord=True?
The Nathrezim and the Succubus looks very alike, are the Dreadlords like Succubi males? Check this: Hooves Dreadlords and Succubus Horns Dreadlords and Succubus That light, pink/purple demon skin Dreadlords and Succubus Wings Dreadlords and Succubus "Standard Dreadlord Armor" as you said xD Dreadlords and Succubus (Female Dreadlord Armor to me xD) And many, other things!

Am I right? (Unsigned: Oscararon, 20:22, 27 Jan 2007)


 * Probably not, but it's still have to be confirmed. Altough if they were from one race, Dreadlords would be known as the Sayaad, or the Succubi were called Nathrezim as well.
 * Counts and Maids are different races. Counts are men, maids are women. Altough if they were from one race, Counts would be known as women, or Maids were called men as well. LOL! UeArtemis (talk) 18:17, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and you don't need to bold anything, and try avoiding that smiley - this South Park Cartman style laughter should be used only in very funny situations, and this one is not funny at all. 18:18, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * They are different races. Dreadlords are Nathrezim, Succubi are Sayaads. The physical characteristics are common demonic traits, note the Ered'ruin as well. -- 20:30, 27 January 2007 (EST)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Can you serious picture Tichondrius's sister sitting around, waiting for some upstart Azerothian warlock to summon her?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 20:43, 27 January 2007 (EST)


 * Then why do they look so alike? And how do Nathrezim Females look? --Oscararon 04:34, 28 January 2007 (EST)Oscararon


 * As I mentioned above, horns, wings and hooves are classical demonic traits. Dreadlords are generally much larger than succubi, they have a lot wider and more powerful wings, longer horns, paler skin, darker eyes, longer claws. They are at least as different from each other as a gnome is from a dwarf or a human from a high elf. We do not know what Nathrezim females look like, or indeed if any exist. -- 06:47, 28 January 2007 (EST)


 * Kazzak looks like a tauren, but I doubt we're suggesting they're related :) 06:48, 28 January 2007 (EST)


 * The Tauren have all characteristics to be demons : horns, hooves, tail, hair everywhere. You know why ? It's because humans (us, not Azeroth humans) have created demons with human bodies and animal features.-- K )  (talk) 07:08, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Correct. Also note the difference in the shape of the wings, and the insectoid style of the Sayaad's lower leg. Nathrezim wings are more classically demonic than those of the Succubi, and Dreadlords lack unusual, scaled-and-bristled legs. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 10:23, 28 January 2007 (EST)

What?
In the races rumor page, it says they couldn't become a race because theywere banned from killing each other.Why can't they kill each other and who banned them from doing it? If it was the Alliance, maybe they could become a Horde race, if it was the Horde, maybe an Alliance race. Mr.X8 03:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't know who did what. However, Varimathras clearly states that it is strictly forbidden for one of the Nathrezim to kill another. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 12:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It could just be a sort of code of ethics/honor/morals, much like this one claim ( White Wolf forums )  that the orcs invented honor to keep from killing one another.  Another example would be the Egyptian Ma'at.  --00:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense. Mr.X8 00:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Dreadlord and Nathrezim
Why is Dreadlord listed as a class for the Nathrezim, when it's another name for their race? Mr.X8 23:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Prolly because of the Warcraft III hero unit, the Dreadlord. That, and some people might find "nath-ruh-zim" hard to pronounce.  Then again, it could be that Dreadlord is a sort of position in a caste system  ( conjecture; look at Annihilan, with the Pit Commander and generic Pit Lord or whatever ).  --Super Bhaal 23:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We have seen Dreadknights in WoW too. One of the invaders during the opening of the Dark Portal event.Baggins

Balnazzar: "My kind are called Nathrezim. Dreadlords in your tongue..." --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 20:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This clarifies things a bit. The thing with the demon caste system is that it was assumed that each race had one rank (with some wiggle room as to task I guess), and the race, a demonic term, and the rank, a common term, became synonymous. This was thrown off with things like how the Doomguard can be from multiple races, and how the Annihilan Pit Lords could have other ranks. Now, it is revealed that it was never a rank, but a true synonym for the race.


 * Hmm... An image on the wiki externally linked on the page as citation. Images like that as citation often get removed for one reason or another (even when 'd ), but it is interesting (not necessarily bad).-- 20:19, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sandy!? The image is on wowwiki :P It's from Ashbringer comic. I used a semmingly external ref in order not to display it on the talk page and overload it... --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 20:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Dreadlord has always was a true synonym for the race, see RPG. Just that its also used as a rank in some instances as well. The same goes for "doomguards" and "pit lords".Baggins (talk) 20:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Then I am confused about that Baggins. N'Nanz, I knew the image was on WoWWiki (hense "An image on the wiki..."), but I do not think it will be counted for long as a non-cleanup worthy cite. -- 20:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Images for comics will be in wiki for a long time since they are Baggins's favorite in infoboxes! :D --N&#39;Nanz (talk) 20:58, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

"Dreadlord" is a class/occupation in WC3 and distinct from the Nathrezim race. Tichondrius' occupation is listed as "Nathrezim Dreadlord". Following the same format for other characters' occupations as "Race Occupation": "Orc Warrior" for Grom, "Human Sorceress" for Jaina, "Night Elf Arch Druid" for Malfurion, etc. Also, Mal'ganis quest says the ones in the Burning Legion are called dreadlords, but are known racially as Nathrezim. This quest is newer than the comic, Death is Contagious. -Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Dreadlord's coming back
So after quite a few Dreadlords have come back... And even Varimathras's Page states that "Being a Dreadlord, its not known if he truly died" when Thrall comes to kill him for his coup... Mal'Ganis who was betrayed by the Lich King, it happened very fast and we must know that he was not expecting it... Still lives on as a Scarlet Crusade Admiral who came after Arthas... Would it be worth adding a section to the Nathrezim of some type of resurrection or false death? --Mordanath (talk) 06:12, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Technically its an aspect hinted of all demons... See Cycle of Hatred, I think Warcraft Encyclopedia, and a few hints in the RPG.Baggins (talk) 06:18, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I had alwasy thought that those were just cases of Demon being banished, not killed, and the quote reffered to the Dreadlord's rebirth cycle. Speaking of which, what happned to the mention of that on the Dreadlord page? I can't find it anymore.--&quot;The Scourge shall prevail!&quot; - Scourge-Lord Morec (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Killing a Dreadlord section
I have reservations, as Tichondrius is just as dead now as Mal'ganis was before Wrath or Balnazzar before WoW. So the section either needs to be removed or edited. Any thoughts?-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The tone seems a bit off somehow, like the "make Sargeras flinch" part. To me, but not to discourage additions, the note at the end of the lore section that says Balnazzar and Mal'Ganis both came back says almost enough for people to draw their own conclusions. Though, the causes of death could be expanded upon a bit there if the killing section is dropped.-- 21:41, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't it Balnazzar who held the Capital City?
The notable nathrezim part in the article says "Briefly held Lordaeron's capital before being defeated by Sylvanas Windrunner" about Detheroc but i though it was Balnazzar and not Detheroc, also if im not mistaken the map before the mission in which you kill Detheroc shows and "X" far away from the Capital City, was it changed later by novels or something else?Or is it an error in the wiki's part? User:Eity


 * We've found that Xs on maps only rarely serve to assist our understanding of Azeroth's geography. I agree, it could use rewording, as Detheroc wasn't the one who was in charge of events that the capital.-- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 21:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Captured by Kil'jaeden
The very first information paragraph states that they were captured by Sargeras. I thought that it was Kil'jaeden that recruited them to the Burning Legion? jclipps (talk) 23:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The eredar and nathrezim joined to sargeras at the same time according to the manual of Warcraft III. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 23:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * They were captured when Sargeras was good. Being a demon and being in the Burning Legion may not have been the same at that time, so Kil'jaeden may have recruited them later. The draenei retcon changed the info in Warcraft III a bit.-- 23:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, maybe the part that every demon vowed to Sargeras was retconned and now the story is that Sargeras convinced many eredars (though not all) to join him and later Kil'jaeden convinced the dreadlords to join the Legion. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 00:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * What Sandwichman said. I think the earlier version said that Sargeras captured them and locked them up, but there was not a "Burning Legion" yet since Sargeras was still "good". When Sargeras turned "bad", he created the Burning Legion and released the Eredar and Nathrezim who then joined his new group. The second version says that Sargeras turned "bad" and created his "Burning Legion". The Eredar and Nathrezim were "mortal" races who were corrupted and recruited into the Burning Legion. I am not sure if it was Sargeras himself or Kil'jaeden who did the actual "finding" them part. I think that is how it goes? Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 03:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Something like that, ya. 03:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The Eredar weren't locked, they were good before Sargeras' betrayal. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 12:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In the earlier version of the story they were indeed locked as they were evil already. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out Sargeras and the Betrayal. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 12:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You are right, indeed. Now I see the reason for the Draenei retcon. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 17:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Where the Nathrezim fit in the new timeline is left unexplained, but yeah.-- 17:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unlike the eredar, though, there's no reason the nathrezim can't keep their old backstory. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that in WC3 manual sargeras recruited the Natrhezim at the same time as the Eredar, but then it is told in WoW that Kil'jaden was the one that recruited the Nathrezim. So it means that Sargeras didn't recruite them at the time of time when he gone mad but later.

Classes
Shouldn't we clean up some classes? -Secret police is not a class,same for dreadwarden,they're NPCs,not classes.Malygos Helper (talk) 08:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of them are just jobs or NPCs like you said. Rolandius [[Image:Paladin.gif|25px]] ( talk -  contr ) 09:07, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Nathrezite
I was reading through the Warcraft RPG book, and on page 96 the dreadlords are called Nathrezite and not Nathrezim, so could nathrezite be another word for Nathrezim or is it just a mispelling? Aedror42 (talk) 18:18, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's just a mispelling, although I I think it should be added to the notes. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:42, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * What's the context? It could be an adjective or ethnonym. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 16:42, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * the text says "For example, an 8th-level warlock could use a planar ally spell to call a nathrezite dreadlord to act as his cohort. As long as the warlock undetakes tasks that would increase the Burning Legion's power and influence on Azeroth, the nathrezite will serve the warlock." Aedror42 (talk) 16:46, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds like it could be an adjective form. Then again, I guess it doesn't appear anywhere else. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Never ending


According to those quotes... it would appear we may encounter Varimathras, Balnazzar, and Detheroc again... so they're not dead just waiting in the Twisting Nether... 21:51, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Makes me wonder... if you kill a dreadlord while in the Twisting Nether... will they permanently die, since they would have no place to be sent to... Hmm. 22:11, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Deepholm quests confirm that earth elementals have permanent deaths if killed on their own plane. It may work the same way for similarly-banished demons.-- 01:12, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wonder when we'll see Tichondrius and Anetheron resurrected... Much more interesting characters. --Sky (t · c) 02:32, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does make you wonder... if they're actually dead and or this "new" lore makes alive again... in which case, Tichondrius would still be the leader. 02:41, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is not really "new" lore, it is old lore that no one except the RPG and the Ogri'la quests (and some other minor places) care about. If you can kill demons by hitting them, why does their mystical physiology matter to the average Joe quest giver? They are no longer his problem in the 'now'.-- 03:33, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cycle of Hatred implies that demons are simply sent back to the Nether, powerless until someone like Kil'jaeden decides they'd be useful again. --Ragestorm (talk) 01:12, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Nathrezim on mortal plane
During a quest in Cataclysm you go take down Balnazzar in stratholme, then a paladin says something "Balnazzar is not finished yet, he is probably with his colleges in the twisting nether" and then something that Nathrezim can't be killed in the mortal plane, which then means Tichondrius is alive.

Found this out on Mmo-champion, but I can't find the topic, its some while since it was posted, and you know how threads get flushed on mmo -- Kevinjoha 00:30, August 6, 2010


 * New posts always go to the bottom. Now look up.... Moncole Smile. 05:49, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tichondrius COULD still be alive. While we know dreadlords can't normally be killed outside the Twisting Nether, it's possible that a powerful enough individual (such as Illidan after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan) would be capable of such a feat. Consider that despite being the leader of the dreadlords we haven't heard so much of a peep out of Tichondrius in a good seven years, while Balnazzar has now come back twice. Ultimately, until we get official confirmation one way or the other I'd say we should simply leave him as "probably dead, but with the possibility of a return." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:23, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Tails?
In Warcraft 3, Dreadlords had tails, but in wow, they haven't. Anyone knows why have they removed them? A dreadlord with a long tail in wow will be epic. --Inico (talk) 17:18, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Nathrezim Theory
I have some theroy about them: [] What do you think? --
 * The talk pages aren't forums. They are for discussing how to improve the page. SuperN (talk) 12:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Demonic Revival
Dreadlords as a whole I do not think can be completely killed only their mortal shells which they regenerate in the nether or after eating the soul of a mortal and possessing said person's body. To kill a Dreadlord would require being able to shatter their soul and destroy their body, which Illidan might have been able to do with the power of the Skull of Gul'dan. Other demons, I am uncertain if they remain in the nether useless. It could be warlock demons since they are tethered to azeroth via a mortal, they regenerate in the nether and are pulled back into azeroth via this mortal. And that might be their version of immortality, so if a mortal can do it. Kil'jaeden might be the tether for several other demons or other strong demon lords might be tethers to reality and be able to summon them forth from the nether. As far as whether this regeneration from death is due to being connected to a mortal, I have no idea. But this is all just a theory.


 * Dreadlords cannot die. They turn into bats and fly back into the Twisting Nether. I hope Blizzard realizes that every Dreadlord encountered, like Warcraft III and WoW in general are alive and will us where we won't see coming. Eventually we will go to their homeworld and completely end them, but they will not give up their lives that easy. They will unleashed untold potential energies beyond imagining. --Darksora110 (talk) 9:15, 16 September 2013


 * If they died in the Twisting Nether, then they are dead. If they did not, then they are still around. The time for revival depends on drama.-- 03:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Dreadlords more skilled at magic than the Eredar?
According to Warcraft: War of the Ancients #2: The Demon Soul, the Nathrezim were described as "cunning and extremely skilled at magic--even more so than the Eredar" which leads me to wonder, is it likely that there is at least one Dreadlord who could be considered close to Kil'jaeden's equal or above Kil'jaeden in terms of power. I highly doubt it but that quote makes me wonder if there is. The demon is called Hand of Sargeras and he does not look like an Eredar so perhaps Sargeras has a favored Dreadlord and blessed him with tons of power? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by.


 * The "Eredar" (used almost synonymously for the warlocks) in that book were pretty low level. I'm not surprised that Nathrezim could surpass them (though those were also pretty low level). Not even the leader of the Nathrezim matched up to Kil'jaeden.
 * The title "Hand of Sargeras" isn't very indicative of power. Mannoroth was referred to as sitting at the right hand of Sargeras, same as Archimonde and their difference in power is huge. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 05:21, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Demonic Revival
Since now all demons are revived from the Nether after a certain time passes, do we still need the speculation about how to defeat a dreadlord? Several of the examples, like Detheroc and Tichondrius, have been revived as of Legion, and its focus on Nathrezim alone misses that it is a feature that all demons share.HorstVanDoom (talk) 19:31, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that section seems a bit unnecessary at this point. -- 19:37, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Standardising Capitalisation
Should Nathrezim be capitalised? There's instances in this article where it is, and then is not... can we agree which it should be? Croondog (talk) 13:22, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Just like all the other races, they should be lower-case. Like draenei, blood elf, felhound, etc. 14:13, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks for clarifying! Croondog (talk) 11:14, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Blizzard used to capitallize race names ("Night Elf", "Dwarves"..), but there were still inconsistencies and instances of them not being capitallized (in quests notably), so they decided to just stop doing it and making them non-capitallized by default. -- MyMindWontQuiet 17:04, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Zhentarim?
i'm a little uncertain about this edit. being an anagram of another word seems sort of weak as a reason for assuming one thing is based on another, and imo that's about as far as the similarities go. one is, as far as i can tell from skimming, a powerful mercantile organization/crime network that uses dragon imagery to represent itself; the other is a race of demons with an affinity for deceit and a lot of parallels to vampires. they don't seem very alike —Eithris (talk) 05:36, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:47, 30 November 2020 (UTC)