Talk:Ered'ruin

I've seperated Ered'ruin from doomguard due to the fact that an npc using the fiend/terrorfiend model, is also referred to as a doomguard. That's not to say that the fiends and the classic doomguards aren't both derived from the same demonic background, much like Go'narg, Mo'arg, and Felguards are. It is however enought to seperate the info out, and discuss the differences.Baggins 05:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Merging?
Since the RPG were deemed un-canon, there's no canon stating that the doomguards' race is "doomguard". Doomlords and doomguards might be different roles or position inside the ereduin species, like the Wrathguards are still being eredar. --Cemotucu (talk) 22:01, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * There was never really any doubt, even with the RPG. However, what are the fiends/terrorfiends/terrorguards? If they are not the same race, but can have the same rank, then the terms are not synonyms.-- 22:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I see. You're right. But we don't know if all the background info and the abilities of Doomguards are race-related or role-related. I'll tweet Sean Copeland about this. Hope we get an answer.--Cemotucu (talk) 22:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The... whatever they ares... are "Doomguard Outland" in the files. However, they seem to have become their own race, not just advanced-looking ered'ruin. So, yes, they are doomguard, and the doomguard race (the RPG just lists them as that where a race should go, because that is their name) is ered'ruin in demonic. However, these guys stopped being the same race, and perhaps never quite were.-- 22:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


 * With the recent sayaad/succubus merge, should merging ered'ruin and doomguard be looked at again? ReignTG (talk) 23:14, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure Xporc (talk) 22:55, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


 * We can look at this again issue again, but do not try to use the recent sayaad/succubus merge as justification. I'm not saying that you did. That was largely the will of Xporc just that page, and this change is now somewhat permanent due to merging their edit histories. Moving forward, we should talk about this.


 * The succubus and incubus are both of the sayaad species, per the Exodar Holographic Emitter. The felguard, fel lord, mo'arg, and gan'arg are all of the mo'arg species. The doomguard is of the ered'ruin species. It is possible in all cases that the species name is the Demonic term for the race, while the generic term is the Common (let us be real here, English) name for the species. However, the naming scheme is inconsistent across the demonic races. Only succubus and sayaad have been merged. Before cries of consistency cause the others to be merged, we need to be sure the consistency exists.


 * A related (and slightly separate) issue is the "Outland" series of demons, and whether or not terrorguards get merged into the doomguard page too. Terrorguards/terrorfiends are advanced doomguard in the same way that shivarra/shivan are advanced sayaad/succubi, but in the latter case they are explicitly different species. We have terrorguard-as-doomguard per Dealing with the Overmaster and terrorguard-as-doomlord per... Grol'dar's Doomlord. However, something way back when (I'll find it, maybe) held us back from merging the pages, and a Tweet (allegedly) says that they are "close in rank and role" and thus not the same. Is doomguard a rank of ered'ruin that could be attained by another species?


 * More cynically, this page is very bare-bones but it is clean and complete. It defines "ered'ruin," mentions when the term has been used, and provides a little extra information to connect those usages back to the doomguard lore. The RPG notes fill in a small lore gap regarding Archimonde, that was not (yet?) re-added to canon with the Chronicle series. This page is like Eredar warlock: complete, clean, and manageable. If we merge the pages, those things would be lost. Yes, it could be said that I am acting like I "own" this page, but in this case it is not about preserving my work, it is about preserving what I see as a bare minimum standard. There are certain problems that have become endemic to the wiki at this current time, and I do not want them coming here.-- 03:49, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * "That was the largely the will of Xporc"??? There had been a "merge" notice for months on the sayaad page, a thing no one seemed to disagree about, so I just did the work that was requested :( Plus succubus and incubus only seemed to be the names for the females and males of the sayaad species, so it seemed normal to me to merge them, it's not like we have a page about female humans and then another for male humans.
 * About an eventual Ered'ruin/doomguard merge, I don't mind whatever option. Xporc (talk) 10:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * As of this writing, incubus is still separate. If it was needed at all, it was done hastily.-- 02:38, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Considering we still have yet to see a single incubus I thought the merging wasn't as urgent as Succubus + Sayad. I can still do it as long as everyone is willing, tho, are you for or against it?
 * (Plus come on man, don't be unfair. We're all doing this with no monetary compensations out of our spare time. I already devoted several hours of my lunch breaks on this merge, don't be upset at me just because the work isn't perfect on the first try)Xporc (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * You're unfair. That said, I AM NOT CALLING YOU OUT AND I'M SORRY IF MY TONE CAME OFF AS HOSTILE.-- 20:57, 23 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yaay let's hug Xporc (talk) 22:43, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I am arbitrarily holding this merge to a higher standard because it should just be the normal standard. Basically what I want is a plan for the new page and citations (not rhetoric) that argue in favor of the merge. Doomguard is a worse page than this one. Smashing them together will not be a net gain.-- 00:15, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * While I would personally prefer to merge Doomguard into this page, I do absolutely agree that given the current states of the pages in question we should sandbox out what it would look like first rather than just smashing them together. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:08, 1 March 2017 (UTC)