User talk:Xporc/Archive04

Archived : 05 / 16 / 2019

Anduin Wrynn Before the Storm
Any suggestion on what to cut out or rewrite for the Anduin Wrynn's Before the Storm section in order for it to be trimmed? I've tried to cut out all the fluff but at the end of the day, it's still a summary of 25ish chapters and will still be wall of text.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 16:19, 10 July 2018 (UTC))
 * Mh, good question :/ Maybe take a look at Khadgar to see how someone wrote the story of The Last Guardian from Khadgar's POV? There's probably no need to put as much details as you do :p Xporc (talk) 17:46, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
 * In general, you want to summarize the broad strokes instead of detailing absolutely everything he does. For example, see this edit for how I summarized Prophet's Lesson in a mere two paragraphs. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:01, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

"Times Change"
Well... I was afraid this time would eventually come, and here it finally is. As I was saying a few months back, I can no longer bear the burden of giving so much time to wowpedia. In the last 48 hours alone I put like 16 hours of work on this site just validating content, not even adding some of my own or anything. And that was after switching to a new method requiring much less work than before, but even with this new validating method it still takes me so long to go through all your edits. Congrats on that, I guess.

This is not a call for pity or a passive-aggressive attack against y'all. I am seriously impressed at how much you guys are involving yourself, I just can't follow you fast enough anymore. Don't worry, I am not leaving wowpedia, I am not resigning from my admin position, you guys are still my friends. I just decided I won't be as dedicated as I was watching over the Recent changes page anymore, it's too much of a toll on my personal life, including my health (after a few weeks of improving my arms are back to giving me pain). I'll probably keep hanging around and validating some stuff, though I don't know how. Gotta find a new balance between being helpful here and protecting myself a bit.

Tagging User:Mordecay, User:PeterWind, User:Surafbrov, User:DeludedTroll, User:Alayea, User:ReignTG, User:MyMindWontQuiet, User:Ryon21, not because I'm an attention whore, but because you people are some of our best & brightest and I want to be sure you all know that there's now one less safety net on this site. If you want to take over what I just gave up on, that'd be pretty nice :p Xporc (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * It seems I'll be the first. I don't know that much about any of you since I'm the newbie but after all this time it's been a pleasure to work with you all and I'm looking forward to still keep doing it. And xporc, you've been really, really working hard on the wiki and we all appreciate it. We really do. And for that you really need to rest and take your time. Health and life comes first. Always. You don't need to take such a burden. At least you shouldn't alone. So try and enjoy what is left of the summer! The wiki will still keep going on, but oneself goes first so try to have a good time with the wiki even though you won't validate that much.
 * I think we all together can make this work. All we need to do is edit more carefully and not do as many mistakes so we should try to check it twice. And remember, always work in a healthy way.
 * And that's it. I don't want to be the center of attention or anything. It was just a thought. Thanks for everything everyone! --Ryon21 (talk) 17:45, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you recognize the burn out and are stepping back somewhat. Your physical and mental health comes first. Thank you for all the work you've done! =^.^= Aliok (talk) 18:40, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Right! Take a break and drop by when you feel like it. Just don't overexert yourself :) PeterWind (talk) 23:23, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks y'all... To be honest, as I start a new day and am feeling refreshed after sleeping, I'm telling myself that things are not that bad, and that maybe I should still work on wowpedia like I usually do... but after checking the RC page I see that I already have hundreds of entries to validate so fffff I'll just grit my teeth and trust you'll do a good job Xporc (talk) 07:24, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

On your "All Trolls were buff before WoW" statement
In Warcraft III, Headhunters, Witch Doctors and the Shadow Hunter were skinny. Additionally some Warcraft II artwork depicted skinny trolls. Gann Stonespire (talk) 15:29, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, you're right, I guess. had forgotten jungle trolls were a thing in WC3 tbh Xporc (talk) 15:35, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the Shadow Hunter was the model for the player model for trolls. It was easier to do unique models in the RTS games, so more races had body variation such as skinny orcs and bulky Night Elf druids. With this in mind, do you think its fair to say the Alpha WoW troll model had some inspiration from the Troll Berserker, some of the skins for the model have the same face paint? Gann Stonespire (talk) 15:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, don't worry. I was a bit in a hurry when I reverted your change and had actually forgotten there were slim jungle trolls in Warcraft III. I thought you were talking about the following unit Troll Berserker (creep) which is why I said "all trolls were buff before" ^^ Xporc (talk) 18:47, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Taking a break
Hey guys, for those not knowing already, I'm taking a break from wowpedia. Not watching over the RC page, no debates, etc. I don't know for how long. Be sure to be on your best behavior, to make only good edits and to protect wowpedia from bad edits! I know I already said such stuff not even two months ago, but as you all noticed, I fell down the hole again at that time. This is a real addiction. This time I am more willing to stick to it, and I probably won't even read your answers here Xporc (talk) 13:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Toodles! PeterWind (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * monkaS. 18:54, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Good luck buddy ! -- MyMindWontQuiet 14:43, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Everyday. Everyday since last week is a struggle not to start validating again. It is friggin hard and I'm kinda lost tbh Xporc (talk) 17:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Find your inner peace. 17:43, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The first weeks are always the hardest. Hold it and it may get better in time! --Ryon21 (talk) 17:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Treat it as fighting an addiction. It'll soon pass away. :') 17:46, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Human Expedition
& you are mixing two things. The first refers to one group of the survivors from Lordaeron, to go along with the others (Kul Tiras, Stromgarde, etc). The second one refers to the world editor-only name for the team of the human groups in the Stonetalon mission. We don't know if the term Human Expedition is used for the whole expedition made up from several groups (the equivalent of the world editor name) hence the bettername tag. It can't be a proper term for the whole thing as it has never been normally (anywhere in canon) used, only terms like expedition, survivors of Lordaeron and the Alliance refugees were. It is known that only a part of the big group was named the Human Expedition. It is the same situation as the Great Alliance. We know that the Horde, Alliance, and night elves allied together, but the name is only from the world editor, and has the bettername tag. --Mordecay (talk) 21:56, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm replaying Warcraft III from scratch and in every single mission starting from The Oracle to the battle of Mount Hyjal, 100% of the dwarves, humans and high elves appear under the "Human Expedition" faction. The "Human Expedition" name is officially used in like 6 or 7 missions in a row. So that's their name. Xporc (talk) 22:12, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The page says that the Stonetalon groups are collectively named Human Expedition because world editor through datamining used that name for the Stromgarde Brigade, Kul Tiras Elite Corps, Lordaeron Corps, Lordaeron Brigade, Gilneas Brigade and Human Expedition. Even though Jaina leads her Human Expedition through Ashenvale and Hyjal later, it is not known if all those groups from Stonetalon were collectively named like that because at the same time in the Stonetalon mission, there is already a Human Expedition group going along with the other groups. --Mordecay (talk) 22:50, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * I really don't care at all about whatever world editor shenanigans you guys are having. Human Expedition is the name of their in-game faction. There is nothing to bettername about. Xporc (talk) 22:53, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

QQ
Heya, left you a quick question on bnet :) --Mordecay (talk) 21:15, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Lost Glacier
Could you explain this? Dihunter (talk) 23:42, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Seemed more appropriate to put it there. Xporc (talk) 07:53, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thx. :-) Dihunter (talk) 19:03, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Gamepedia and Fandom wiki problem on official french forum
J'ai poste sur le fofo français de warcraft europe le fameux sujet :

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/fr/wow/t/wowpedia-est-dans-la-mouise/4009

Est ce que tu pourrais éventuellement y jeter un coup d’œil pour expliquer la situation ? Car moi et l'anglais ça fait 2^^ Klakmuf (talk) 21:53, 14 December 2018


 * Yep j'ai laissé un message Xporc (talk) 21:01, 14 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Merci. Klakmuf (talk) 22:07, 14 December 2018
 * Ça commence à répondre ! Klakmuf (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2018

A Long Time Coming
"A Long Time Coming" isn't a cinematic, it is an in-engine cut-scene that is unusually complex. The rest are not listed.-- 20:29, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * okay Xporc (talk) 16:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

The Dusts of Outland - Invasion of Draenor.jpg
Hello.

The reason the orcs are a purple team is because purple is also used by Magtheridon's army in the same campaign. And the humans are the red team because so is Kael's army. So it wasn't supposed to depict the Thunderlord clan. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 02:50, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi there. Mh, do you have formal proof about that, like a designer's word, or is it just speculation on your part? Xporc (talk) 14:15, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's speculating to say they are Thunderlords when the clan isn't mentioned at all in the game. The Kul Tiras marines in the demo campaign use blue instead of dark green, Arthas and his Lordaeron troops use blue instead of white, the Stromgarde Brigade uses brown instead of red, the Warsong use purple instead of red, the Stormreaver skeletons use green instead of blue, the Twilight's Hammer skeletons use brown instead of violet, and probably more examples. So I don't think team color is enough to go on.
 * Also, since I see you were the one who moved the mission names, what are your thoughts on renaming the Curse of the Blood Elves missions to have "(WC3 Human)" in the title instead of "(WC3 BloodElf)"? Considering that blood elves are not one of the four playable races, and have a tech tree and units largely identical to the humans (and the exact same in the first mission). It's confusing from a lore perspective, but makes more sense from a gameplay perspective, and is consistent with all the other campaign mission names. Alternatively all the TFT missions could use the name in the campaign select screen (Sentinel, Alliance, Scourge, Bonus). --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 20:33, 5 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, for the team colors.
 * I'd be reluctant to move the Curse of the Blood Elves missions back to "(WC3 Human)" because that'd be an outright lie compared to lore ... at no point do you play an human army, and you are in fact hunted down in a genocide attempt by the humans :/ Also their tech tree is different, considering you use archers instead of riflemen, for example. That's unique compared to the other campaigns AFAIK. Xporc (talk) 13:29, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * On the first mission, Misconceptions, you can use peasants, footmen, riflemen, knights, mortar teams, and so on. The archer is the only real exception for the later tree. Based on this interview, where he says the orcs would've been the only odd ones out if the bonus campaign wasn't made, it seems they consider CotBE to be a human campaign. But alternately we could rename all the TFT missions to Sentinel, Alliance, Scourge, and Bonus, which are all the official names. It would make them stand out from RoC missions too. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 03:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * That's one mission out of 6, and it's made very clear in the next mission that these human troops are not yours, they were merely lend out to you by Garithos. In the following missions you can't use any of these non-elven units yourself so I disagree that Archers are the only difference in tech tree. Also "Sentinel", "Alliance" and "Scourge" are all wrong as well, considering you actually spend half of these missions playing the Watchers, Blood Elves and Forsaken ... Xporc (talk) 08:25, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The High Elven Barracks doesn't even make a return, they use the normal human one with two Lordaeron flags outside it. I agree the titles aren't very accurate, but ultimately they are the official titles, and "BloodElf" is not ever stated in either the gameplay or the game's code. Using the "motherland human 1-7" cheat sends you to any of the CotBE missions, but typing in "motherland bloodelf 1-7" or "motherland blood elf 1-7" does nothing. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 04:46, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The flag argument isn't really relevant, because all orcish barracks of the game have Blackrock clan flags, and all human nations have Lordaeron flags, including the Kul Tiran, Dalaran and Theramore barracks. Anyway, any other opinion from other people on the matter? Xporc (talk) 08:21, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Despite the fact that you're playing as the blood elves the entire time, the game does call it the Alliance campaign (and the data files call it the Human campaign) and not the Blood Elf campaign. I'm inclined to go with how the game labels it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:27, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Bump? No more people wanting to chime in? Xporc (talk) 08:13, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Klakmuf : j'ai perdu mon nom sur ce site
Xporc, c'est klakmuf, j'ai perdu mon nom d'utilisateur maintenant c'est User-11957137 ; c'est quoi ce bordel ? User:User-11957137 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * C'est à cause de l'application de la loi européenne RGPD + le rachat du site par Fandom, normalement tu as dû recevoir des emails qui te demandaient ton consentement pour que les anciennes données de gamepedia soient transmises à Fandom. Du coup comme tu ne leur a pas donné ton consentement, Fandom n'a pas pu légalement recevoir les données de gamepedia. Je vais demander au staff s'ils peuvent corriger ça Xporc (talk) 16:27, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Voila ce qu'on m'a donné :
 * If you meet the following criteria, you need to email community@gamepedia.com with your current username, old username, and account email IMMEDIATELY Xporc (talk) 16:35, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Voila c'est fait, reste plus qu'a attendre... User:User-11957137 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Alors j'ai reçu une première réponse de support@gamepedia.zendesk.com :
 * "This is a quick note to let you know that your request has been received. However, we received your request outside of our business hours. One of our agents will be around to assist you within the next 24-72 business hours. We look forward to helping you!" User:User-11957137 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Voila ce qu'on a reçu comme instructions:
 * 1. Log out
 * 2. Visit Gamepedia.com
 * 3. Log in there
 * 4. Use the rename credit here: https://www.gamepedia.com/account Your username will then trickle down to the wikis.User pages (owned by non-consenting users) and user profile fields (for non-consenting users) had to be erased to comply with GDPR. Xporc (talk) 22:26, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * C'est bon ça marche ! En revanche j'ai perdu toutes les discussion sur ma page de compte ainsi que la page d'utilisateur, mais c'est pas grave ^^. User:Klakmuf 23:44, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

WC3 Campaign units and heroes
What are your thoughts on making a campaign section for the WC3 template? Considering that the WC1 and WC2 ones both have campaign heroes on them. Also I am currently working on several improvements for the WC3 quotes pages. Many of them are wrongly transcribed, in the wrong sections, and other problems. I should have the edit finished in the next few days, maybe tomorrow. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 04:06, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's necessary to make a campaign section on the existing WC3 template, considering it would be overwhelmed by campaign-related units when it's supposed to be about melee ones, however it's possible to create a new template for campaign-specific units. I already did Warcraft III campaign units once but never found a proper formatting / usage for it. Xporc (talk) 08:18, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Reconstructed Terror zombies
Those hulking undead trolls are called zombies in Humbling the Terrors. What about the skeletal troll, dire troll, and zombie categories combo? Or would that be too much? --Mordecay (talk) 13:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Eeeh, using the three categories is fine IMO Xporc (talk) 13:14, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Statues
What say you on an idea about having separate pages of statue objects for important characters like the ones in the Valley of Heroes? To avoid having statue and object categories there. Less known characters can probably stay merged. --Mordecay (talk) 19:32, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't want to tag every character that has a statue, the reason I tagged those was about the plaque rather than the statue. Since the decision was made to put such content on the character's page, it should be categorized properly Xporc (talk) 21:02, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, statue, readable plaque, meant it that way. Simply, objects with ID. With the Llane case, I think having the transcript on his page seems redundant since there´s a page for it. A link should be enough. Where was the decision you mention made? --Mordecay (talk) 21:22, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Presumably 2008 or earlier, don't count on me to find the original discussion :p Xporc (talk) 16:51, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, and Sylvanas (Warcraft III)
Just to answer your question here, I knew those links wouldn't work yet but I was in the process of finding and fixing a large number of errors on the quotes pages, which I finally finished.

I like the idea you proposed here. I don't know how this template works, so I was wondering if you could add it on the Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, and Sylvanas pages. Can this template be used to make two articles with completely different text or can it only make two different infoboxes? I thought I remembered seeing it used to make to completely different articles on the same page back during WoD before the alternate universe characters were given their own pages like they have now. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 22:06, 17 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Aye, I was expecting something like this, but I still fixed them to keep consistency until you overhauled the quote pages :p For the Arthas & the other pages I'll try to take a shot tomorrow, it's already past midnight here Xporc (talk) 23:28, 17 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Ew, turns out the template thing isn't that easy Xporc (talk) 20:21, 18 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Is it possible to create two different articles in one page, or can only two different templates be made? And I think the Reforged models could just go in a gallery section, it's not like they have different stats (and if they are a lot different then they could have their own page). --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 02:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC)


 * We're trying to contact Foxlit, the admin who originally worked on those :p Xporc (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Do you know if it's possible to link an article in a way that will display a specific alternate template first? Or is it always the one on the far left?


 * And about the Third War article... it kind of sounds like cities have gone missing in Lordaeron, which is impossible at that time (Kel'Thuzard hasn't even left the Kirin Tor yet). I think it is referring to Northrend, and at the time Blizzard thought it could have formerly had human settlements. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 03:10, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah it's totally possible for a page to display a specific alternate template first :) For example, if I link Blackpaw (mount) it will show up as Blackpaw (Blackpaw (mount)) instead of the default Caged Bear (Blackpaw (mount)) :) Sadly Foxlit does not answer my requests, so I guess we'll have to find how to make it work alone :/
 * For the Ashbringer sequence, you have to remember two things: first, that in the comics, the Southshore meeting happens after the Culling of Stratholme, and by that point several major cities were already gone. Two, Caer Darrow was completely wiped out by the plague before the Scourge was even created, as said by Rory, so it's not impossible for several cities to have gone missing before the Third War began. But I do admit I am not a native English speaker and I may be misinterpreting that quote in Ashbringer/Old Hillsbrad Ashbringer event ... I think at that point it'll be a matter of choosing which is the more canon, the in-game event or the comic one. Anyone else could chime in? Xporc (talk) 09:58, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * About the missing cities quote, I think it refers to cities in Northrend. Although the "northlands" are commonly known as the northern part of Lordaeron, in this case when it says "frozen northlands" I'd guess it refers to Northrend, which later he says he's heard it is lost. And about which one is canon, since the comic came out later, the comic would be first I'd say. --Ryon21 (talk) 13:00, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Mh, okay, feel free to do whatever then Xporc (talk) 13:30, 24 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't think we should be mixing up the two sources. The comic should be considered more canon because it's more recent and detailed, but that doesn't change how the Caverns of Time version was clearly meant to take place years earlier. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 04:37, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

''hey there foxlit, would you have time to help us a bit with some templates? :D'' -- Special:CommentPermalink/376
 * I am relatively busy over the next few weeks, so whether I have time depends on exactly what sort of help you need. In any case, you're welcome to ask for something more specific -- just no guarantees on when anything might happen.
 * Skimming through the above, you might want to consider how you want the merged pages to look like for users without javascript enabled (see e.g. Blackpaw (mount) or Crystallized Drop of Eternity), and whether any content beyond the infobox would need to change (ability sections?). Using multiple articles and something like faction disambiguation might be more natural, but it's not obvious why the tabs are better than just linking to other unit variants in some sort of "see also" section if there are non-trivial differences.
 * (Unrelated: please use my talk page if you need to get my attention in the future; I don't regularly check or get notifications for profile comments.) — foxlit (talk) 23:15, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Arcanite
Since Arcanite Bar has Arcane Crystal as an ingredient, would it be too far to put the arcane category with "Arcanite" things? --Mordecay (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's a metal, let's leave it at that Xporc (talk) 20:31, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Berserkers and dire trolls
If the Berserker category says "This category contains articles pertaining to berserkers and troll berserkers, but not about the dire trolls, which have their own category." should dire trolls be put there? --Mordecay (talk) 17:30, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * One can be a dire troll and a berserker, and plenty of them are already tagged as such ^^ Xporc (talk) 17:44, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Baine exiling tauren
In Tides of War, Page 25, it notes "those who disagreed with Baine's decisions" like declaring Taurajo a valid military target, such as the "tauren who chose to strike back at the Alliance from Vendetta Point, were expelled from Thunder Bluff." Note the tauren of Vendetta point were defending the gate of Mulgore from Alliance soldiers. Baine's actions also go against Blood_Oath_of_the_Horde_(quest) which states the right to retribution is an oath of the Horde. Gann Stonespire (talk) 23:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Three years of wowpedia
So, with a 4-day margin, it's now been three years since I started editing wowpedia. I recently realized that I had 176,338 pages on my Watchlist, that I just managed to clear up thanks to pcj. So what's up since last time? Well, a lot I guess:
 * Went through a severe burnout and a long depression period, failed at quitting wowpedia at least twice, and I am now trying to see a therapist. I'm feeling better now, but that's mainly because I don't work half as much as before, resulting in most of my projects now being dead in the water. So yay for surviving I guess, even though people at my work have noticed that I spend too much time on random websites and not enough actually working for my corporate overlords, so who knows what'll happen next.
 * Battle for Azeroth was launched and was a very divisive expansion pack, leading many people to drop WoW. Sad.
 * The wikia buyout was certainly a surprise, but didn't had too much negative consequences so far.
 * Blizzard still doesn't seem to want to help us much, another sad thing.

For the next year I would like to finish my project about removed WoW content, and I'd like to resume my Warcraft III overhaul project. But who knows, really? I'm sure WoW Classic and Reforged will give us plenty of new work to do, so it's not like my plans for the next year are too solid. At this point I have accepted that finishing all of my projects is an impossible task and that managing wowpedia itself can't be done perfectly because it's simply too much time. So I guess I have accepted how wikis are supposed to work?

I don't think you see me yelling at people too much anymore, and that's good for everybody. Still, like the other years, I'll give some advice about stuff I'd like to see improved:
 * I believe some of you guys are way too focused about trivial edits that are pretty much wastes of time both for you and for the people that watch the Recent Changes. I'm talking about edits like changing npcbox to Npcbox, or reordering infobox information. We've got a lot of those now, and I consider these edits as useless or even dangerous considering I sometimes have to fix typos you introduced but didn't noticed. Feel free to make edits that actually change how the page looks, though ...
 * Similarly, I believe we do spend too much time working on very minor lore content, like making lists of all the people who ever had the ultra-generic rank of Captain instead of working on archiving WoW content that might someday disappear. I'm guilty of this too I guess, but that's mainly because most of my time on wowpedia is spent at a corporate computer.

Cheers. Xporc (talk) 14:51, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Was the lich king the best general?
Was the lich king the best general? lets looks at this strategically i personally think that he was a very sneaky and down right bastard but you can not judge a general on what he did you must judge a general on his tactics and his outcome of battle the lich king was very brutal and did not care for his servants or lower lackeys lives<by why should he he does not need too respect them he only has respect for his high ally's and death knights and after the downfall of the scourge i think we can all agree he deserved it after slaughtering hundreds of innocents burning Quel thalas the eleven kingdom of old to the ground but lets face it his tactics were amazing if you ever played the undead campaign we saw how arttharas commanded by the lich king smashed through allied army blitzkrieg through there defences and serounded and crushed them but this leaves the question was he a good General? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Beoendal (talk · contr).
 * I think he was the best general. Especially when he provoked the H&A to siege Northrend so he could kill the best heroes and resurrect them as his supreme death knights. A shame Tirion and the Ashbringer foiled his so amazing and not foolish plans. He was such the best general. Oh wait, that was Arthas... WoW has made so much harm to the lore... --Ryon21 (talk) 17:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
 * He didn't seem very good tbh Xporc (talk) 09:08, 24 April 2019 (UTC)