Talk:Watchers

2006 post
Actually................. Most of that is false.


 * Oh? cite basis for your accussation and sign your posts, please. We're more than reasonable people, and will more than willingly correct the article. --Ragestorm 21:34, 9 November 2006 (EST)


 * Lore looks solid to me. ::Stamp.:: 21:39, 9 November 2006 (EST)


 * Montag, they were devotees of Elune's Night Warrior aspect. Nameless One above, still waiting for your response. --Ragestorm 22:16, 9 November 2006 (EST)


 * Ah, okay. I based that part of the intro on other text within the article. Some external sources would probably help flesh out this one, since I can't recall much lore on the Watchers from the game. 22:21, 9 November 2006 (EST)
 * Though I'd rather wait for Sylvarios to tell us why he made the accusation, I'll fix it with the info from the Warcraft Encyclopedia. May Elune shine upon the lore team!--Ragestorm 22:29, 9 November 2006 (EST)


 * Based merely on the number of periods in his post, I will conclude that his accusation is mostly unfounded. 03:28, 10 November 2006 (EST)


 * Perhapso. As it turns out, he was technically correct in that Cenarius apparantly had nothing to do with the Watchers. Like I said, I'll update when I have the time. --Ragestorm 09:11, 10 November 2006 (EST)

First sentance
says that the Watchers worshipped Cenarius rather than Elune.

From the reference cited at the bottom to the Official WoW Encyclopedia.
 * First sentance of Membership starts 'At first, volunteers from the Sisterhood of Elune made up the Watchers...'
 * Sisterhood of Elune page says 'The Sisterhood of Elune is the highest echelon of the priesthood that serves the goddess of the moon, Elune.'

The rest of the article has similar factual problems. --Dga 13:04, 15 December 2006 (EST)


 * as stated above, we ran out of time. This is high on the list.--Ragestorm 13:07, 15 December 2006 (EST)

Barrow-Prison
What's a barrow-prison? (Mr.X8 00:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC))


 * The prisons of the night-elves? Barrows are basically their underground dwellings, so I'd guess cave prisons. Pzychotix 01:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Disbanding
What about the Wardens - were the Watchers just one unit of Wardens? If so, that should be worked into the article. If both were the same (as it somehow sounds) then we've got a major lore issue here, since a lot of sources state that the Wardens are still active whilst the encyclopedia says they were disbanded. I might add that the idea of disbanding the police would also be a quite stupid idea. But since the encyclopedia has made several stupid mistakes already that wouldn't surprise me. Tulon 14:25, 25 June 2007


 * Wardens are a character class and rank, similar to a Priestess of the Moon. The Watchers were an organization of various classes led by Warden Shadowsong. Wardens in general are independant of the Watchers. -- Ragestorm (talk &middot; contr) 14:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Prisoners
I know the prison was said to hold more then just Illidan. I know there was a wolf there, were there any other prisoners listed or more that we know of? Mr.X8 02:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Who removed the block of text I added?
I distinctivly recall posting an added part called "sleepers" was that removed or moved?--The last Alterac 09:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed split
This article should be split into two articles: Watcher (titan) and Watcher (night elf). While the two groups are named the same, they have vastly different functions and are entirely unrelated. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * How related to the titans in the Storm Peaks are the Stone watchers?-- 22:00, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That I don't know. We may need to split it three ways. Either way, at minimum, the titanic watchers need to have their own page. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:14, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * All the titanic watchers are also called titanic keepers (usually, if not always, without the 'titanic'). I have no idea what the difference is. Do you know?-- 23:26, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, the two terms are used interchangeably. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:35, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think we should leave this page as it is, moving the correspondent content to 2 new pages for NE and Titans and replacing it here with "see: main article here" links.
 * That way, we can keep this page as a proper disambiguation page, with the "other" watchers still in.--Lon-ami (talk) 16:08, October 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * I split the titans off to a separate page, but I've left the bronze dragonflight ones until someone who knows more about them can do it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:31, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see no split. All you've done is remove the section and put a link to a round about redirect... -- 14:43, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
From the Wolfheart book, ch. 29:

The high priestess acquiesced. “No one can deny you that right, and you have proven your abilities, Jarod. . . which brings me to my first point. Not all of the Watchers were surely aware of Maiev’s plot, and from among those proven innocent I intend to have a new leader appointed. However, the Watchers will play a different role than what we need from you, Jarod.”

“Me? I do not understand.”

“Once, you ably commanded warriors—and even demigods—in battle for us. With my husband’s agreement, I would have you lead a new security force, one designed to deal with troubles. . . such as Maiev.”

What several wowpedia articles currently say is that Jarod became leader of the Watchers after Maiev's betrayal which according to Tyrande's words from the book is not what happened. Someone from the Watchers was to be appointed as new leader and Jarod was to lead a new force composed of the members from the Sentinels.
 * The high priestess put a comforting hand on his shoulder. “In regards to Maiev, Shandris will assist you in choosing from among the Sentinels some possible candidates for your new force.”

I presume that this misinformation was used by the author of the first UVG. Later, the second UVG actually changed the wording to that of the book's. Although the second UVG changed the sentence regarding the Watchers, he is still listed to have the title Leader of the Watchers.

Looking at the history of the page a user wrote a summary close to that of the book's. Then another user rewrote it, adding things about Jarod leading the Watchers. He did the same in Jarod's page.

Before doing anything, is Jarod mentioned in any capacity with the Watchers in Cataclysm or Legion? --Mordecay (talk) 20:04, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is mentioned that Jarod is the new leader apart from the UVG. He goes to the Broken Isles as a volunteer to help the Wardens not to lead them. :shrug: --Ryon21 (talk) 02:25, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Wardens
The Wardens and the Watchers are the same group, no? Should we merge the lore of the two then, and treat The Wardens page just as the Legion in-game faction? Also, it'd be best if we moved "The Wardens" to "Wardens (faction)" to avoid any possible confusion? --Ryon21 (talk) 23:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Looks like wardens are elite members / leaders of the Watchers. I'm in favor of doing "Wardens (faction)" since the definite article is normally dropped from the name here. --Mordecay (talk) 23:48, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * According to the original Encyclopedia lore, "Watchers" is the name of the faction while "warden" is an elite rank that can be bestowed on some Watchers. Watchers don't just consist of wardens but also of other forces like druids (e.g. Sarius) or huntresses (e.g. Naisha). The best comparison I can think of would be the difference between the Cenarion Circle (a faction) and archdruid (an elite rank), or Klaxxi and paragons.
 * Blizzard seems to have kind of forgotten about this in Legion (given that they named the rep faction "Wardens" instead of "Watchers"; that no non-warden Watcher NPCs show up anywhere in Legion content, as far as I know; and there are even novices training to become wardens directly, which doesn't really make much sense compared to the Encyclopedia's description), but IMO the Watchers and warden pages should still remain separate. I agree that the faction page should be moved to "Wardens (faction)" to avoid confusion and be consistent with other articles, though. -- 07:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * TBH "Warden" is a direct reference to The Frozen Throne and more people will remember that name than the generic "Watcher" term, especially in the context of Maiev and people like Cordana Felsong. Also I don't see the problem with Warden Trainees, I mean you can technically be a SWAT or Delta Force trainee IRL as well :thinkies: Xporc (talk) 08:28, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Maiev and Cordana are both Watchers and wardens. The latter name may be more familiar to players, but we shouldn't make decisions just based on that. The terms aren't synonyms and shouldn't be treated as such, IMO. As for the trainees: the encyclopedia says that "Maiev was given the rank of warden, which she later awarded to a select few who had proven their exceptional fighting abilities, tracking skills, and tenacity". Then again... I guess after you get promoted to warden you still have to undergo training to actually be able to fight with an umbra crescent and warden armor if you were previously just an archer or something. -- 14:37, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying we should make decision based on player familiarity, I'm saying that's what Blizzard did when they created the "The Wardens" faction. Xporc (talk) 14:41, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. My bad. -- 15:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)