Forum:Race capitalization

Forums: Village pump → Race capitalization
(This topic is archived. Please do not edit this page!)

For reference of those new to the discussion, this started with changes to Blood_elf, and the writing policies (and vote) are discussed here and here. The discussion carried over onto User talk:Gourra. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

From User talk:Gourra#capitalization.

I understand that the "community" thinks races shouldn't be capitalized, but if you look up any grammatical rules, you'll find that races are always capitalized. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The.bandit23 (talk · contr).

If by "races" you mean species (as is really the case in WoW), then...no. I don't call a bear a Bear. In any case, community guidelines > grammatical rules as far as race capitalization best practices on WoWWiki. --Pcj (T•C) 20:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Spelling, like Venery, is a game of conventions. While I agree in general, you might look here for another take on the subject. See also my note on the talk page. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

True, but WoW classifies Blood Elves as a race, not a species. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The.bandit23 (talk · contr).

Blood elves are a "race" of elves. Elves as the species are not capitalized. If you were to do something similar with the real world and humans, you wouldn't capitalize "white human" (as weird as that descriptor sounds it's the closest I could come up with). --Pcj (T•C) 21:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Was caucasian humans the term you were looking for?

(^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

No, because that involves a proper adjective "Caucasian" which is not the case for blood elves. (Wildhammer dwarves would be a good comparison for that though) --Pcj (T•C) 21:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

At least part of it needs to be capitalized. To simply say "blood elves" is incorrect. According to what seems to be "counted" as a race here, at least "Elves" should be capitalized. I think it irresponsible to ignore grammar just because the majority of an online wiki think they can do it better. -- the.bandit23, 16:14, June 16, 2009.

No. --Pcj (T•C) 21:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Please don't span the discussion in two pages, it gets counfusing. Elves shouldn't be capitalized as Blizzard don't do it, when you give me a recent source with elves capitalized we can continue discussing. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Look at the encyclopedia: [1] "As a general rule, elves are also slim, athletic..." Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, if Blizzard don't do it, then neither should we. The.bandit23 (talk) 21:22, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

And, actually, Blizzard does do it on their own site. Go to www.blizzard.com. Most of their races they have capitalized in their character/race section. "blood elves" isn't, but "Night Elves" is. The.bandit23 (talk) 21:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Here is the Blizzard page that lists all the races: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/races/ Every one is capitalized. The.bandit23 (talk) 21:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

That page is fairly inconsistent. Click on the blood elf page and it is lower case in that article. Night elf is strangely capitalized on its own page, though. We'll stick to the community consensus. --Pcj (T•C) 21:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Except for the fact that the only time a race isn't capitalized in the whole section is the one time on the "blood elves" page. So wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it's strange for "blood elves" not to be capitalized? It is not "fairly inconsistent," because, as I said, the "blood elves" page is the only time (and it's only done once) that lower case is used. Just my two (or 200) cents :P If the all-wise community says I must use lower case, then I must. The.bandit23 (talk) 21:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Blizzard also capitalizes the classes, its all about appearance for them. Do you think the classes should be capped as well bandit?

(^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Only when referring to a specific person's class. The.bandit23 (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

It just seems to me that at least when the race is the subject of a sentence, it should be capitalized: "The Humans are..." This seems acceptable to me, though: "Azeroth contains races such as tauren, blood elves, and night elves." The.bandit23 (talk) 21:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Blizzard may have capitalized the names in the page you linked above[2] because in their games many things are capitalized while in lore they shouldn't be, and that is a page about gameplay. But if you check any of the books or RPGs I'm almost sure none of the races are capitalized. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 22:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Aye, that is true, just went through a few races in the Dark Factions book, unless at the beginning of the sentence none are capped.

(^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The community has already chosen its policies. (WW:Writing Race name case - WW:Capitalization)

Why trying to come back on them, every lore aspect of Warcraft stand against you...

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 22:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Being the trouble maker and devil's advocate that I am, I have to say that you voice the reason yourself: It was community choice, not an immutable law. Things do change. It has been several years since that policy decision was made. It is appropriate to reexamine the reasons given for the choice in light of new evidence, to see if the consensus remains the same. We even have a mechanism for doing so. While I think the consensus is still strongly in favor of the current policy, The.bandit23 has the right to put the issue to a vote if he chooses. We should never become so fixed our ways that we never allow previous decisions to be questioned, for that way lies decay. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Because, even though a thing is a certain way does not mean that it should be. Because, even though a majority decides something, that does not necessarily make it right. I've argued my point, and I believe that the name of a race should be capitalized; however, if it is this community's honest will that the name of a race not be capitalized, then so be it. Just know that I'll not condone it. The.bandit23 (talk) 22:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, we know. Thanks for your input. --Pcj (T•C) 22:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Quick note, from a recent history perspective: as far as I recall Blizzard started off capitalizing everything. I'm fairly sure the early Warcraft stuff, like manuals, RTS text, uses a lot of capitalization. However, over time, as the franchise has got larger and novels have started to be written, I think they realised that treating everything as proper nouns doesn't make sense from an "in-world" perspective. That would generally explain inconsistencies between different texts and different authors. Kirkburn talk contr 19:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Even though I'm on the side of the current policy, I'd be interested in the results of an actual survey on this topic of recent material. I don't have the materials to do it myself, so all I can do is "express interest". --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Why are races like Old God (If it is a race.) and Lost One capitalized if races are supposed to be lower case like blood elf and high elf? Rolandius

(talk - contr) 07:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Capitalization, imo, should only be used for proper nouns and specific things. For everything else, lower-case.--Lon-ami (talk) 10:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Reasoning is weak on these, I would agree. Excuses, I can come up with, though. Capitalization of "Lost One" indicates it's specifically about that race, where "lost one" could apply to anyone. "Blood elf" doesn't suffer that problem. "God" is so often capitalized that it carries over, at least to that extent. Note that both of your examples might get de-capitalized in recognition of your point, Rolandius. Would like to hear more opinions on that. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

My opinion is that capitalization should follow in-world usage. For instance, it looks like most quest text (as spoken by in-world characters) uses "blood elf" (e.g.

[1-10] Blood Elf Plans), and I see mixed usage of "lost one" and "Lost One", while "Old God" seems pretty consistent. -- Har vey drone 20:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Lost One usage is already explained in the article. The race is called Lost One. The organization is called Lost One (same as before). When referring to the race of the organization is "lost one". Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 21:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't the organization be called "Lost Ones"? Okay, so pretty much all races are lower case except "Forsaken" and "Old God"? At least for now. Rolandius

(talk - contr) 07:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the organization is "Lost Ones", but also the race is Lost Ones, BUT when they are referring to the race of the organization it is "lost one". Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 19:00, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The last two parts don't make sense. The race is spelled "Lost Ones" but when referring to the race of the organization it is spelled "lost one"? Why would a race's spelling be two different ways? Rolandius

(talk - contr) 02:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, any ideas on the "Old Gods", "Old God", "old gods", "old god" subject? Rolandius

(talk - contr) 02:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that its a bad idea to comment in three talk pages for the same issue. About the Lost One please check the article, I've cited and explained as best as I could, hope you understand. About the Old Gods I think it should be left capitalized as it's the way that Blizzard does it and we should stick to it. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 02:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)