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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ashbringer article.

Comic, WotLK, and Pre-WotLK Contradictions

With the release of the comic upon us, this article will likely see many changes in the coming days. The comic may, and likely will, contradict many aspects of the story documented in the article's present state. I'd like to remind everyone of our WP:LORE policy on such contradictions:

Two or more sources of lore may conflict on significant points. However, it is not WoWWiki's purpose to simply ignore older lore as if it never existed, but rather show the evolution of the story, and all alternate events. Perceived discrepancies may be retcons, flavor lore, or simply errors, but it is not up to wiki to decide which is the case. All versions should be compared and contrasted with citations, in order to portray the true publishing history.

In other words, don't remove info because doesn't fit with the comic or WotLK. Add what's not already in the article, and let's come to consensus on how to whittle it down after that. --Tyrsenus t c 01:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

That said, don't hesitate to remove debunked speculation! --Sky (t · c · w) 01:57, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Curse broken link

The reference to the Curse site is broken. You can find the Asbrinnger # 2 preview here: http://www.blizzplanet.com/blog/comments/world_of_warcraft_ashbringer_2_comic_book/

Stats

Could we please move the stats down on the page so they aren't the main Ashbringer picture, so to speak? Chances are, when it becomes obtainable, those won't be the stats :P ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 16:52, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Not likely. Check back in the archive, I've tried many times. The argument is something like "these are the stats we know." Apparently one admin or another has a very strong opinion about this and keeps reverting it back. You're welcome to try again, though. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Purified Ashbringer makes Lich King retreat?

Now, I haven't played WotLK yet, so I can only comment on what I've read, but the Ashbringer making the Lich King retreat? Come on! He's described at one point as one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen, suggesting his powers could very well rival that of the Old Gods (I know it doesn't say that, but the implication is there if he is one of the MOST powerful beings it's ever seen), and a sword which does probably only 700-odd damage to him if you take damage reductions and whatnot into consideration, makes the King of the Undead retreat...that doesn't quite sit with me. Thoughts on the matter? Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 18:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Well we have to take in consideration the Lich King got wounded on holy ground and felt the anguish of a Thousand lost souls AND the restored power of the Naaru.
I dont know if his power level is over 9000/same as the old Gods, but i'm pretty sure he would've been slightly scared since he hasn't been wounded for years and thought himself being to cocky and pulled back before he knew he would make a mistake and duke it out with Tirion without back up.
IconSmall Orc Male.gifHunterGorvar
As I say haven't played WotLK, so I wasn't aware of these factors. But the comment of his Old-God power level I am making based on the fact that Azeroth has born witness to the Titans, Burning Legion and Old Gods, and of those three, the most powerful have been the Old Gods (the Titans couldn't even manage to kill them all), so it all seems rather suspect that one sword could make him retreat. I'd say it would've been more down to being surrounded by a horde of very angry DKs. Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The Ashbringer is not a mere sword though, same with Frostmourne.
While one is the embodiment of Good, the other is of evil and both have shown to have great power.
IconSmall Orc Male.gifHunterGorvar
The Ashbringer is not the embodiment of Good, it can turn dark. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 19:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
True, but now it is a embodiment of good again, and i'm sure if given a same shot of sorts, Frostmourne could be turned too.
IconSmall Orc Male.gifHunterGorvar
Actually Frostmourne is far more than a simple representation of evil: it is an extension of the Lich King's powers, and as such, to turn it to the light would be to turn a part of the Lich King to the light. Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 20:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
So in other words, we can't purifiy Frostmourne. Didn't think we would anyways :) IconSmall Wolvar.gifBig, furry, and insane (Have a conversation with the homocidal furry!) (Come and stalk me! ...No, wait, please don't.) 20:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, one of the articles about Frostmourne mentioned something along the lines of the sword having been one of the items created for the specific purpose of containing the Lich King's powers(along with the helmet, breastplate and throne itself ((hence why Arthas could hear him through it)), and another that the sword was created by the Lich King within the throne, so either way it is actually part of the Lich King and not simply a sword forged by him on Draenor. Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 20:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Well also if you think about it, the Lich King is fighting the high paladin, most powerful holy dude in azeroth, on holy ground, against ashbringer. That's like attacking Russia in the winter. IconSmall Dwarf Male.gifPaladinOkolorionTalk Contribs 03:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd say the Lich King's power would by far surpass that of a mere paladin, regardless of who that paladin is. I'd say it would have far more to do with trying to walk on hallowed ground, as depending on how far he'd have to move, he'd be in a "ow, hot sand!" mode. Again, too much stock is being placed in the power of Ashbringer and less in the actual situation: hallowed ground and outnumbered, NOT simply overpowered. I think I'd be pretty worried if God knows how many Death Knights suddenly turned on me, along with a horde of paladins, priests and loads of other classes besides. It's the numbers, not the people that made the difference.
Scum of the Earth, COME ON! (talk) 03:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
But dude, that's not a mere paladin with a special sword. Tirion Fordring's already powerful, but then combined with the most holy sword ever, a amazing number of lost souls, holy ground, adrenaline and the element of surprise...Of course Arthas is going to be a bit scared, especially when Tirion is also reinforced and the Lich King has no reinforcements. Battm7 (talk) 01:48, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Battm7
Actually I think you are all severaly underestimating Tirion Fordring. The man purified the sword by merely touching it! Not only that, but despite him being more powerful than the Old Gods (apparently -.-*) he is still primarily based upon a foundation of unholy power. He basically has a disadvantage standing upon Holy Ground, weakening his power as the forces at work fight against him but on top of that the Ashbringer is an embodiment of Light and thus, it is doubley effective on Holy Ground, making Fordring stronger. Arthas comes across as having insane amounts of power but the fact remians that despite this, he was weakened by the terrain and the power of The Ashbringer in the hands of one of the original Knights of the Silver Hand, i would say at least, is strong enough to even match the Lich King, without the terrain advantage, because of the opposing nature of the weapon. Conclusively, it is entirely forseeable that Fordring could kill Arthas or even shatter Frostmourne "as we have seen now that the expansion is - for all intensive purposes - complete.

P.S. I'm a Paladin who named his guitar after Tirion Fordring so I'm biased, but the fact remains, both entities as "The Ashbringer" proved themselves to be more powerful than the Lich King. Extractum--Paladin-General of Stormwind 01:32, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Runeblade

Well, I was looking in the Runeblade section, and it said Ashbringer was a runeblade. Personally, I have a problem with that as Ashbringer is not known as a Runeblade and it doesn't have any known runes on it. So I was just wondering if anybody was with me and if I should take down Ashbringer. Battm7 (talk) 01:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Battm7

It's only with WotLK coming out that the notion of runic weapons are an evil thing. They were initially used by the titans and the art was used by generations of Paladins, if you look at the Trial of the Crusader promotional art, the high spec drawing of Fordring shows ruins on The Asbringer's blade just below the floating symbol of the Silver Hand.

It is a ruin weapon of sorts, just not as aubviously as Frostmune for example. Extractum--Paladin-General of Stormwind 01:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Stats, Part Deux

Since the new legendary is Shadowmourne, this seems to be pretty good confirmation that we won't get the Ashrbinger as an item. Can we finally drop the item stats from the main info box and put them further down the page as sort of a "legacy" section? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

We still have three more expansions before we hit 100, that's a lotta time to add ashbringer into the game... IconSmall Dwarf Male.gifPaladinOkolorionTalk Contribs 23:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't really see that as a justification to leave increasingly outdated stats for an important lore weapon that was never legitimately obtainable. We don't have the Frostmourne "stats" at the top of the page, after all. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Deja vu. Those item statistics are so prevalent in the WoW community that I think to remove them would raise questions from those visiting the article. I would, however, support moving the stats down the page. Being at the top of the page, it may mislead people into thinking it is an obtainable item (despite the notice next to it). --Tyrsenus t c 03:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
That's more or less what I'd suggest, yeah. Put the stats further down the page so they're there for posterity's sake, but don't put them at the top or link it as an item anymore (since it isn't obtainable, and even if it is in the future it never was or will be with those stats). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I have a problem with the Ashbringer not having an owner, it does in Fordring now and it did in Mograine before. Just because Mograine is dead doesn't mean that because they had a mutual name-sake, it is ownerless! Fordring has it now making him the new Ashbringer, thus he is the owner of the weapon and they are almost one entity. Not sure if my argument is totally incorrect lore-wise (almost sure i'm not making any major contradictions), I just think it's a reasonable rebuttal to the Ashbringer being "ownerless". Extractum--Paladin-General of Stormwind 01:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Tirion is an old fool who led the Lich King live, eventhough that armies of Horde, Alliance, Argent Crusade and Wyrmrest Accord could easly destory what little remained of Scourge (cause after all the war with the Lich King there couldn't be too many of them). Just because two ghosts who were trapped in Dark, Evil and Cursed blade tell you "there must always be a lich king" isn't the reason to let this happen. He should just give Ashbringer to someone not that naive as he is:P Encaitar (talk) 16:54, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Mickey Neilson Quote

RE: Mickey Neilson's tweet that the Ashbringer crystal was part of a naaru: "That was the plan although we never stated it explicitly."

I think the way this is currently phased on the article ("In reality, this was the core of a darkened naaru") needs context. Neilson had the plan that Ashbringer was made from a naaru, but that part of the story was left on the cutting room floor. I think that information should definitely be included in the article in some way... but I honestly have no idea how that should be treated canonically. Playing devil's advocate, if it's not in the story, should it be considered canon? And plans change... maybe that was just Neilson's plan, but others on the writing team had other ideas?

I'd like to hear other suggestions, but maybe the best way around this is to simply state the facts: "Mickey Neilson planned to reveal that the Ashbringer crystal was part of a dark naaru, although this has not been explicitly stated in official sources." Tyrsenus t c 19:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Interesting catch, gotta agree that the current sentence needs more context in respect to Neilson's tweet (as it currently doesn't really reflect what the tweet says; "There was a plan, but we didn't present it" doesn't mean that "In reality, this was the core of a darkened naaru"). The sentence you proposed seems more accurate to the problem, for me. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 20:14, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
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