Horde lore jumps the shark

Yup the horde is no longer a group of misunderstood races trying to find their place in the world. They are now just mindless evil creatures waiting to be killed. It wasn't enough that the alliance got all the good cities,pets and have an easier time raiding,you had to make me the horde evil too. This wallpaper says it all. [1]. Looks like an evil horde full of half naked elves was more profitable for Blizzard. So all the character development in Warcraft 3 and lord of the clans was completly wasted. The horde has once again had another evil race forced on it. While the alliance with a pure angelic race. Looks like Grom and Durotan wasted their lives, for the horde is back to being evil creatures with no purpose other then to die. Makes me glad I rerolled alliance. I mean what purpose is their playing a faction with dead wasted lore,half assed towns and quests,and has been officialy labled as the evil side with no purpose other then to die. Thrall should have given up,just let the races of Azeroth kill the orcs. For the proud orcs have de evolved from shamans unfairly persecuted by humans. to dumb bloodthirsty caveman waiting to die to the perfect humaan. The Tauren are now just dumb beasts for the dwarves to hunt,trolls just thin morons who should have gotten eaten by murlocs and undead the pure evil creatures that were put into the horde for marketing. And of course Blood elves the demonic elves with big Tits. While the alliance has gotten a pure angelic race the horde has been tied down by antother evil race. The noble shamans are now dead replaced by dumb evil monsters. I mean lets face it Blizzard has given up on the horde since the game started. They got half assed towns,the alliance got great towns,no exclusive mounts or pets,almost no chairs while almost everyone alliance town was full of them. And now the finals straw has gone,the horde has gotten big breasted evil elves. You should have just let ya race be eternal slaves Thrall,even thats better then whats happened to ya now. Drek'thar

If and when Blizzard implements Hero types, the Horde will have meaning again. Right now there isn't much reason to play horde because the biggest lore advantage they had in Warcraft III is gone. The blademaster was the best solo combat hero in the game, and there is no equivalent in WoW. If horde players could be blademasters and spellbreakers, with powers greater then just warriors and mages, then the horde would make sense again. At the moment, the only reason people play horde is that, if your goal is flat out being better in paper, the horde have better racial traits.
That said, the horde got the blood elves because the census information has shown that humans and elves attract the most players, and horde is predominately undead. Which would suggest that appearance plays a significant roll in what types of characters people play. The blood elves will, I believe, attract many more players to horde. This is of course a double edged sword. Right now, on the PvP servers I play on, horde tends to attract better players, and alliance just attracts more players. As cynical a view as it is, the Blood Elves will likely bring the "screaming noobs" issue crashing down on the horde.
That said, do I think the horde got misrepresented in WoW? Yes and no. It was the faction system that caused it all. Even in PvE, cooperation between horde and alliance characters is impossible, so the general case is that at best they ignore each other and at worst (in pvp), they fight each other. There can't be the 'Jaina Proudmores' and 'Thralls' because players can't communicate or cooperate. What's really needed is true world pvp where factions mean jack, and anyone can train to any language. If, as Blizzard says, this is a time of uneasy peace, then ideally there should be some room for cooperation between the factions. But no, the setting of WoW has been constructed to be an informalized state of war. No marching columns of troops, no beseiged cities, just lots of players killing each other out in the wilds. Piroko 10:47, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

One of the big problems with the horde is the character models are awful. They have should given orcs a blade master like body,and trolls should hunch but only in combat. And I really hate the whole Ha ha we're evil aproach they do with blood elves and forsaken. And its even more humilating that we get dark paladins. Honestly its horribble for the orcs,trolls,and tauren to have half the quests be evil. Maybe it was just easier to make the horde evil. I want the true shamanistic honorable horde of Orcs,trolls,tauren and stonemaul ogres,screw blood elves and their two dimensional personalities Drek'thar

It's all a matter of taste really. When you're in the middle of combat with epiced out gear though, that charactermodel hardly makes a difference. And try playing a tauren. Around zero of the quests are evil. Pzychotix 03:10, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

The Horde is not evil. In a sense, the Forsaken and Blood Elves are only allied to the Horde. The Blood Elves in the whole are not evil. The Blood Elves are still very much High Elves. With the loss of the Sunwell, they simply resorted to drawing magic from anywhere they can get it to revive their fallen civilisation. I agree that communication should be allowed between the two factions so we can have more "Jaina and Thrall" kind of situation. The concept that the Horde is Evil shouldn't change. It simply enforces the fact that they are misunderstood. Actually, Blizzard should make the Orcs more attractive to players considering the Horde was originally the Orcish Horde. --Invin Dranoel 11:00, 3 October 2006 (EDT)

Anyone with something to say on the new models?

I find it hard to believe myself that Thrall and Cairne would let in blood elves who blatantly torture angelic beings,and its going to suck when all the blood elves in outland give evil quests. Angry ogre

Its only getting worse,I hear the expansion is making the orcs seem like Genocidal bastards who want to kill the draenei for no reason and making the blood elves have a quest to vandalise Uther's tomb. And people say Blizzard didn't ruin the horde's lore? Drek'thar

Um? Where the fuck did it say that the orcs were turning into bastards? Where the fuck are you getting these bullshit ideas from. Are you like 12 or something? The orcs who do this are Fel orcs, who are NOT Horde members. Blizzard seems to actually be making the Horde's lore even better by adding these races in, because it increases their outcast stance and how they are misunderstood by the Alliance. The Blood Elf guy who does this is simply misguided, and I don't know what fucking fantasy website said they were turning the orcs into that. Have you actually played TBC, instead of bitching, whining, and shitting all over the things that didn't go your way? If you haven't, then I suggest you should. You'll learn quite a bit. Eman91 00:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Eman91
Wow, you put a real spin on things. Why are they still called the horde? And wtf with the evil stuff. I hate how he horde are labelled evil. I always thought of them as the good guys team. And yeah, the orcs look like crap. And you have no idea how cheesed off I was when I found out there where no Spellbreakers, insted dark paladins? Omg! That is the most screwed up thing, its like the training of death knights or something? The blood elves to me seem more like adolescent's with a big powerful gun (>_<) --Double Fury
.... I hate you drekthar.... the horde isn't evil... and how dare you most of all, call blood elves evil, I'm amazed you could be so assumptiuous! Blood elves are merely a troubled race which uses magics most shun (Same thing goes for demon hunters but are THEY evil?) and are determined survivors with at leaste some sense of honor. Think of all points of views and study what yer talking about before you start basing things.Feldaldor 07:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Heh, Belfs really are a messed up race. They don't have real honor, they're idea of honor is to steal the magic of some one or something else for there own personal gain. Its like a civilisation of children that never got taught the rules of life. Double_Fury 1:59, 13 January 2008

Blood elf hunters

My belief is that the Blood Elves will get the Hunter class : see [2] --Kirochi 19:42, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

Rangers have always been an elf thing, so it's likely. --Kakwakas 23:1

i think they will, cus most hord races have the hunter class. --Isidar 17:16, 19 July 2006

I don't see this happening. Just the fact that the horde HAS hunters is reason enough, but the Blood Elves are ivory tower types. They don't have shamans because shamans have a bond with nature, something which the blood elves lack. Piroko 07:14, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
Oh well, as of now it's getting more and more odd. The rangers have always been a tradition for the High Elves and if they announce some day that the Blood Elves are getting Hunters they'll have to give another class to the Draenei to keep balance. Means Warlock (they seem to have predispositions to the demonic magic, as two thirds of their people fell to it and some Lost Ones also practice it but it would be awkward that they get Warlocks with such an experience of fighting the Burning Legion), Druid (OMFG first Shamans and then Druids ? No way) and rogues (they look too fat to be so, except for females, and that would leave the Tauren as the only one race to have not this class). So ?--Kirochi 06:14, 29 July 2006 (EDT)
Draenei warlocks would be like night elf mages, it's a path forbidden in thier society. Comming from outland and having no connection to cenarion, they can't be Druids. Rogue actually would make sense, after all the broken are excellent assasins, but they are smaller and don't have big hooves, so theoretically they would explain it by lore, but it would look stupid anyway. The other way to give BE hunters would be to take away one of thier classes. Warrior have to stay for obvious reason, mage and warlock are a must for BE, so we are left with rogue and priest. Not giving them priests would make sense, since they don't really follow the light anymore, but it would make the horde cry with only 2 priest races vs 4 priest races for alliance. What I can think of now, would be giving mage class to dwarves or something... --Nea 07:02, 29 July 2006 (EDT)
Yeah, true point, except for the Dwarves (I'm still disgusted by the possibility of playing a Gnomish Warlock or Mage ... That doesn't make sense). First I couldn't even imagine that they would add other classes to the Draenei and the BE after having announced them, so now I can think they can remove the Priest class from the BE, and too bad for the Horde. Otherwise they could add Rogues for the Draenei (Garona, queen of the Rogues of all times was herself half-Draenei) and that would be almost OK, if not for the beefy males.--Kirochi 09:32, 29 July 2006 (EDT)

Here you have it, hunters instead of BE warriors. Makes Gnomish warriors even more retarded in my eyes :p.--Nea 02:23, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

On the Dwarven Mage point... yes. We need dwarven mages. If we had dwarven mages, I probably wouldn't be in such a hurry to join the horde once BC comes out. Why? Because dwarves have everything. They can use mechnostriders (the coolest mount in the game), do ****ing RIVERDANCE... Piroko 06:29, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
Dwarven Mages make some sense... As there are green item, Dwarven Mage staffs to be found in the game as we speak. ;). Baggins 09:14, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Ok, so apparently they DO get hunters. Guess what they lose to get them? (It's a deal with the devil I tell ya.) So the whiny shojo-ai otaku fangirls can now out-smart each other coming up with all the special vowel permutations of Legolas. I'm not upset over it (though I'm sure some people might be), but am... annoyed by how much of an obvious cop-out it is. Why not just make it World of Arda and be done with it. Forget Naxx, you could have Thangorodrim, a 50 man raid-dungeon-BATTLEGROUND with mounted gryphon-dragon combat, heaps of orcs and elves and men and in the middle of it an npc battle between Morgoth and Fingolfin; 'cept that Blood Elves are horde so that doesn't work. Piroko 06:47, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

*shrugs* Seems only right to take them out. Blood Elves are less geared to be warriors than anything else. They are a bunch of magick-obsessed elves, while their elven ranger heritage makes it natural that they be hunters. Then again..... Gnomes as better warriors than Blood Elves? I still the fact that gnomes can be Warriors hilarious. Tank? Pshh. Football is more like it. *PUNT!* Pzychotix 11:43, 3 August 2006 (EDT)
I got it! Look at the male blood elf dance and male gnome dance, Gnomes have more testosteron, thus can be warriors. --Nea 04:21, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Blood Elves had swordsman in Frozen Throne. I'd venture to guess swordsman are just like warriors... So there is precedence for warriors to fit into lore as well, just as much as hunters... As for RPG lore, there is a couple of articles about High Elf warriors in those books, IIRC. (So I guess its possible if a High Elf became a Blood Elf and was consumed by his/her addiction to magic, s/he can no longer can be a warrior, but its possible for him/her to become an NPC swordsman perhaps).

...or are blood knights the replacement for swordsman?

And hunters are nothing like Legolas. He never had pets fighting for him. Oh ya the person that said that "Draenei warlocks would be like night elf mages, it's a path forbidden in thier society." Warlocks are actually forbidden in human society as well. Which is why you usually see them in hiding out in dark underground basements, or in graveyards, and other remote locatins (the fact that warlocks aren't liked is mentioned in the character selection screen, as well as quests in the game). Unfortunately this doesn't stop the fact that you see warlocks in the game everywhere, and teaming up with paladins and priests which are their anathema. Brann Bronzebeard notes in Alliance Player's Guide that its becoming more common to see warlocks, but everyone thinks them as evil, and if they aren't evil yet will likely be in time.Baggins 08:43, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Here's a little argument (not written by me though):

To those bitching about how gnomes shouldn't be warriors, I want you to explain to me one thing. Explain to me how even the largest playable race, tauren, can tank something such as a full-grown dragon. By your logic of gnomes can't be warriors, tauren shouldn't be able to tank dragons. Do you agree we should take out Onyxia and Nefarian along with gnome warriors?

No? Then quit being stupid. Gnomes can be warriors because it wouldn't make sense for them to be one of the classes unavailable to them.

As for blood elves, it's not like blood elven warriors will cease to exist. Warriors are such a basic concept that they'll always exist in every race even if they're not playable. On the other hand, if Blizz had taken out another class (rogue or hunter), then lore would likely be written for that class to no longer exist in blood elven culture. --Vorbis 08:03, 12 August 2006 (GMT)

An Argument by me: Since blood elves are constantly addicted to magic, it would make sense, (in blizzard terms) to have them only to have mana using classes, hence no warriors, though it brings up skepticism about Blood Elf rogues. And in a comment about gnomes, generally in all mmogs gnomes are highly intellegint crafters/engineers, so its just going with the trends, the fact taht many mmos had their gnomes as "fingerwigglers" aka int classes such as summoners, burst magic users, necromancers and so forth. whereas dwarves are more stereotyped as wise or wisdom users, and are given more priestly roles, like paladin, cleric, and so forth. However in WoW beta they DID have gnome priests, and dwarf mages, which doesnt seem right. In terms of class balance, most (and this is going on a limb) pvpers play rogues/warlocks. Since all of the alliance can be rogues, whereas only 3 of the horde can't (tauren belive its dishonorable) It wouldn't be fair to have 5 alliances to be rogues while only 3 hordes can. And if I'm correct the draeni will pretty much be the alliance's tauren, in terms of stats. Now think of what would happen if you got a good str boost early on, PLUS the innate ability to heal yourself over time, (racial ability naaru's gift) it would be a whine fest. For blood elf hunters, it sorta makes sense, although the high elves weren't as connected to nature and druidic stuff as the Night Elves, so I'm pretty sure they could care less about animals. But if you're gonna give a character in WoW and say, here shoot some stuff, and have decent melee abilities, I'd suppose they'd want a tank. What I'm interested in is what their racial mount will be. I could understand a dragonhawk (warcraft 3 frozenthrone) for outland. Yet in terms of class balance the alliance seem now more than ever to have the upper hand in the defense abilites, with humans, draeni, and dwarves able to be paladins AND warriors. Meaning they will have two plate wearing classes. The thing that irks me the most is the draeni that will be playable in WoW:Bc crashed from a space ship...try to explain that blizz o_O

Hi, justed wanted to say, as a BE hunter (Ethalen Vashj & Bloodhoof EU) I am not a clone of legolas, I don't look act, or feel like him, I don't have blonde hair, or blue eyes, I don't listen intently to the winds and give really bad one liners, I prefer to pose for WOMEN not teenage girls, my armour isn't very elegant, its rough, ready, and covered in a dirty blood spattered guild tabard. Also I like to carry around a big pissed off looking bear with a huge appetite, Legolas couldn't tame a kitten. Secondly I don't even know WTF a Shojo-ai is, If I am fanboi anything its of WoW addiction, I chose the least anime'ish haircut I could find, and the last Japanese thing I was interest in was my ex girlfriend. Just figured I would put in my bit, also hunters for BE make sense, their military has revolved around Rangers protecting the forestlands of Quel'Thalas since its creation. --Nurizeko
Yeah, I second that. BE hunters are not Legolas... I get really pissed off when people tell me stuff like that, and how hunters don't belong in WoW. Come on, WcII: Elven archer, Elven ranger, and in WcIII: Elven archer. There is so much history and law to support BE hunters it isn't funny. --Double Fury

....some of you I'm ok with... but others... I got a bone to pick with you... Ok as for the idea of elf rogues being odd I'll explain this... Blood elves, along with being addicted to magic, hold mobility and stealth and agility above physical power, and in an official Blizzard approved guide, the fact that blood elvan rogues aren't magic users is described like so:"Even though BE rogues do not use magic actively. do not underestimate them, their dedication and discipline of a BE rogue is almost mystical in itself" if that's not enough... notice how the BE silvermoon gaurds DON'T HAVE MANA EITHER! Mana doesn't = magic even though mana is almost always needed to cast spells, mgic comes in more forms than spells. Now as for whoever said BE's lack a respect for nature... you need to learn what you're talking about before you start spewing things from yer mouth... BE's love nature, why do you think in WC3.. if you've played that that is... that the Blood elf captive said "The trees themselves protect our city" blood elves love nature and respect it.However, BE's are vane and stuck up, and consider themselves above nature, and almost everything, and everyone, else, a mindset that they and the night elves do not share when it comes to nature at leaste. And also... the whole ivory towers stereotype annoys me... BE society is separated into two groups. The ranger class, whom prefer to live in the forests, patrolling BE borders, and the magister sect, THAT is the section that lives among tall beautiful white and gold towers, although the military sect also resides here along with some rangers as well.And lastly on my BE correction lecture fer you all, yes HIGH elves are used to fighting demons... somewhat... however highelves have also been known to HELP demons, (AKA War of The Ancients) and Illidan himself is a demon hybrid who for a time served Kil'jaeden... whom kael and company served, and serve, and kael spread that manipulation of fel magics amoung his bretheren, and with almost any race that uses magic especially the blood elves, warlocks will be among those magic users to some extent... and because BE's don't hold the light as part of a religion, and fel magic is the most prevailent magic, warlocks are almost, certain to be there... now for none BE related subjects... Warlocks wouldn't have a chance in hell amoung the dreinei... because ALL the dreinei that you play as pledged themselves to the naaru and the light, and not to mention warlocks are thing the drenei associate o demons and orcs, both which dreinei despise above almost all else, it took serious debate for even shamanism, a non demon related orcish practice, to be let into dreinei culture. And ummm idk about the gnome issue... but... quite frankly I've thought about the thing of a gnome being a warrior myself... kinda silly you ask me... cuz even though a dragon is physically larger than a tauren... a tauren... among other resources... is physically better built than a fucking midget gnome for strength. Gnomes are just so obviously not good with brute force (They're at most 3-4 feet tall and are so damn round and stubby!) that I really am surprised when a tauren sees a gnome he doesn't laugh and charge him and kick the gnome into the field goal about 30 feet away or so! that or just step on em him without noticing.... xDFeldaldor 08:08, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Still no explaination

Praise be we have an answer to the question,[3] Now we can all rest easy in knowing where the heck Azeroths BE's come from. And notice it says Illidans enemies are the Lich King and the remaining Lords of the Burning Legion, the guys on his own man, Kil'Jaeden made it clear their would be hell to pay if he failed, which he did.-OtherHalfofYang

I've been pretty ticked for a while that we still have no explaination from Blizzard where the Burning Crusade BEs were when the rest escaped (FT made it look like they all did) or why the Horde is letting them in even though they're allied with an agent of The Burning Legion (which they might not know, so I can let that slide).

I guess you can come up with all sorts of theories, but its still irritating that they've done so little to explain themselves.

Especially after a post like this from an MVP.


Well, because of Blizzard's decision not to have their archives saved like every other forum, ever, the thread is gone, but basically Palehoof admitted that the primary motive for adding BEs to Horde was server balance by giving them a "pretty" race. And now they're not making any sort of attempt to justify this lore-wise, which really hurts Blizz's rep in my eyes :\

I for one think being able to play as Illidan's faction (BEs, Naga, Draenei, Satyrs) would've been the coolest thing ever, and reworking the game for a third faction would make things so much more interesting in PvP.

Thoughts? --Dreyfuss of Durotan 12:00 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

The horde blood elves were the blood elves that didn't follow Kael to Dalaran in his quest against the scourge with Garithos and the other humans, not because they didn't want to, but because they remained, under kael's order, in quel'thalas to restore it and free it from the scourge. after that, from outland, he sent rommath to teach them how to tap fel and mystical energies, and with this new power they were able to restore quel'thalas and proliferate again, and they want to reunite with kael wich promised them a golden future (that's what he told rommath to say to the BE on quel'thalas)

--Orkk 19:44 6 Aug 2006 (EST)
Here's the way I look at the Blood Elf dilemma. First, they were all High Elves. Then came the Quel'thalas genocide. Of the remaining High Elves, a portion opted to become Blood Elves. Same race, different faction. Of that faction, a portion (that led by Kael) chose to follow Illidan. Thus, only that portion followed him into Outland, leaving other groups of High and Blood Elves on Azeroth. The Blood Elves that stayed behind are the ones that rebuilt Quel'thalas. Personally, I find it illogical to assume that EVERY SINGLE Blood Elf followed Kael and Illidan. So, the ones that are going to be playable in BC are the ones that stayed behind and had no affiliation with Illidan what so ever.

Blood Elves, Draenei, Naga, and Satyrs would have been an awesome Team to play as, btw.. --Anticrash 12:23, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)
Well during the Blood Elf campaign of The Frozen Throne it seems to make it very clear that all the Elves calling themselves "Blood Elves" did go with Illidan. And if the other Blood Elves chose not to follow him, why are they attempting to reach him now? The site says they are attempting to reuinite with Kael. --Dreyfuss of Durotan 13:50, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

I think that the Blood Elves are a separate race from the High Elves. The Blood Elves have given into their racial addiction to magic and it permanently changed them. They are different in other ways than just red clothing and demonic magic. Their eyes are glowing and their skin is flush to show their transformation.--User:TopDread 12:27 Feb 1 2006 (EST)

That wouldn't make them an entirely different race.. that would only make them corrupted High Elves. If the effects of their transformation would be a little more drastic (such as night elves becoming naga or satyrs) then I'd have more faith in that idea. But since they still look pretty much exactly like high elves, I still consider them the same race. --Anticrash 12:36, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

The High Elves changed in appearence from the Night Elves because their color changed. Blood Elves changed in appearence from the High Elves in that their skin is flush instead of pasty white. This is the same thing.--User:TopDread 12:31 Feb 1 2006 (EST)

I'll have to agree with Anticrash in this case. I think Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, just like Dark Iron and Ironforge Dwarves are the same race. They look really different, but so do humans. --Dreyfuss of Durotan 13:50, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)
People, look at where the Blood elves live versus where the Night Elves live. Completely differant environment, and (surprise!) the Night Elves environment is predominantly purple and blue. So is their skin. It must be an adaptation that the Night Elves acquired from their shadowy new environment.--Skatrumpetx 23:25, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

If their racial abilities are different from High Elves, then they are a different race. --User:TopDread 14:00 Feb 1 2006 (EST)

Blizzard Entertainment defines reality in the Warcraft Universe. If Blizzard says that the new "race" is the Blood Elf, then Blood Elf is a race. --User:TopDread 14:00 Feb 1 2006 (EST)

Yet we can only play as Horde Orcs, and not Blackrock Orcs, even though they are the same race. We can't play as Defias, but we can play as humans, even though they are the same race, etc. etc. --Dreyfuss of Durotan 21:03, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

"Blood" is not the name of their faction. If it was the name of their faction they would be called Blood High Elves. The Blood Elf hero is labeled as being of the Blood Elf race on Blizzard's Mojo Stormstout Guide. --User:TopDread 21:07 2 Feb 2006

Maybe they're just not pale because of all the demonic fire magic giving them sunburns, hehe. Oh, and actually on topic, I still consider them the same race right now. They've changed, but not enough to classify them as a different race quite yet. If they stay on their path of using demonic magic, however, they will. The blood elves on Draenor are likely already starting to mutate. My reason for believing this is that when someone asked about blood elves raiding Kael'thas in Outland, Metzen (or another official, I think it was at BlizzCon) said that there was something that will make the Horde blood elves not want to follow him anymore. --Kakwakas 21:49, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

"Blood elves are not a kind race. Their only aim is to further themselves and their quest for arcane energy. They are united by this common goal and pursue it ruthlessly." RPG book. Found it on a Jeux form. That book (Alliance & Horde compendium, I think) is a bit outdated, though. --Kakwakas 22:02, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

Okay Blood Elves are High Elves that "quest for arcane energy". I accept the authority of an official RPG book. --User:TopDread 22:10 2 Feb 2006

Like I say, though, that was written before the Burning Crusade expansion was announced, so things may change. Also, they're likely to mutate further into a different race later on if they keep using demonic magic. They'll probably be more different later, but they're really just begun. --Kakwakas 23:02, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

The Blood Elves who went with Kael to join Illidan on Outland were just the first small group to take the name "Blood Elf". All that group consisted off were those High Elves who survived the Scourge attack on Lordaeron/Quel'thalas and straggled in to where Garithos was taking charge of the Alliance remnants in the area. Besides this small group, there were thousands of High Elves elsewhere in Azeroth - some far to the south in the other lands of the Alliance, and some across the sea in Kalimdor with the Alliance forces there. These elves had no part in the formation of Kael's group, and by the time they heard of it he had probably already left to chase after Illidan.

These scattered High Elves all felt the same magic addiction that the original Blood Elves felt, and over time the vast majority of them have become desperate enough to follow the same path of the original Blood Elves and have started dabbling in darker, demonic magics to satisfy their thirst. So they take up the name of "Blood Elves" and try to follow along (perhaps even with the help of a few original Blood Elves who didn't make it to Outland with Kael) the path laid out by Kael and his group while they were still on Azeroth, but in the process they become enemies to all their former allies. So desperate for allies (and knowing nothing of Kael's alliance with the Illidan and the Naga on Outland) and desperate to get to Outland and join their namesakes in the "paradise" they think waits for them there, these new Blood Elves wiggle their way into the Horde.

Blood Elves at this point in time are still pretty much the same as High Elves. They look the same, so much so that Blood Elves are able to disguise themselves as High Elves when travelling in Alliance territory, while the biggest visual differences between the two 'races' would probably be the Blood Elves' tendancy to wear the color red - and the High Elves' rejection of wearing the color in order seperate themselves from them.

However, the Blood Elves (primarily those on Outland with Illidan) are likely becoming something different through their continuous exposure to dark/corrupting magic, similiar to how the Naga and Satyr changed, but just at a much slower rate. When we see the Blood Elves who have been on Outland for the past few years, it is very likely that there will be noticable physical differences between them and the more 'tame' Blood Elves in the Horde. The differences between the Outland Blood Elves and the Horde Blood Elves, which will likely include several evil plans to gain power on the part of the Outland Blood Elves (who have been much more exposed to the corrupting magic of the Twisting Nether), will probably play a part in making the Horde's Blood Elves change their minds about joining their kin in Outland, and (since Kael is apparently going to be a raid boss) will likely cause them to join the Horde in defeating their corrupt breathren. --Caeyn 00:08, 2 Feb 2006 (EST)

"My reason for believing this is that when someone asked about blood elves raiding Kael'thas in Outland, Metzen (or another official, I think it was at BlizzCon) said that there was something that will make the Horde blood elves not want to follow him anymore. --Kakwakas 21:49, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)" Had I gotten that information sooner I could've avoided a lot of frustration. So apparently Kael only freed a portion of his followers, and now the others have reason for not wanting to join him... But wait... on the site it explicitly says that the Blood Elves ARE trying to rejoin him. So what's up with that? It seems the current info negates whatever was said at Blizzcon.

The Blood Elves of the Horde have remained on Azeroth, the Outland Blood Elves, those that followed Kale'thas to outlands, have been exposed to the dark and demonic energies that flow through that ruined world. If Kale is going to be a boss that we can kill it stands to reason that even though the Azerothian Blood Elfs want to rejoin their brethern in Outlands they will realize that something is wrong with their kin, something that cannot be changed and therefore they must fight against them. We're probably going to be seeing two types of blood elves, Azerothian and Outlands Bloodelfs. --Karye 04:08, 24 July 2006 (PST)

"These scattered High Elves all felt the same magic addiction that the original Blood Elves felt, and over time the vast majority of them have become desperate enough to follow the same path of the original Blood Elves and have started dabbling in darker, demonic magics to satisfy their thirst. So they take up the name of "Blood Elves" and try to follow along (perhaps even with the help of a few original Blood Elves who didn't make it to Outland with Kael) the path laid out by Kael and his group while they were still on Azeroth, but in the process they become enemies to all their former allies. So desperate for allies (and knowing nothing of Kael's alliance with the Illidan and the Naga on Outland) and desperate to get to Outland and join their namesakes in the "paradise" they think waits for them there, these new Blood Elves wiggle their way into the Horde." This is an excellent explaination. Why don't we have people like you on the WoW forums? :(

Still, I think the best choice possible would've been a third faction. How awesome would that be? And we'd get SO much more content than we are now :( 4 races > 2. New class > none. New continent > a few new zones/instances. An entire faction-worth of quests > just new end-game quests. etc. etc. Right? One day I ought to photoshop the character creation screen with a third faction on it :P --Dreyfuss of Durotan 03:13, 2 Feb 2006 (EST)

There are two major problems I have with Blood Elves being member

I agree so damn much that Blizz should've made a third faction instead of all this crap they've added to the lore... until recently there was NO information of how there were blood elves not with kael. Then they made this stuff about how apparently dreinei and eredar are genetically the same race. And then,oh god...they gave Akama and friends lil tenticles coming from their heads! I pity those poor dreinei for having to take such abuse!Speaking of character abuse, I'm saddened by how they screwed with the appearance of Outlnd blood elves... to think all that game playing I did on wc3 with kael and company... and now they turned into THAT! What's worse, blizz did something that will make me hate them for the rest of my gaming life! They drove Illidan mad, and made Kael betray Illidan and make a deal with Kil Jaeden! That really ticked me off! Kael and Illidan were my fav wc3 chars until blizz made them a retard and a jerk! Sigh... I still hang on to hope that a blizz guy might read this some day soon and realize how much he and blizz screwed up and maybe decide to make a third faction after all... hey a guy can dream... *sniff*Feldaldor 08:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
i've allways been saying a third faction would pwn in terms of making more sence and also being more fun... also the blood elves called them selves blood elves scince quel'thalas was destroyed. in the WC3 campain where meive (the warden idk how to spell it) escorts kale they were calling them selves bloodelves at this time if im not mistaken and this is before they ever even meet illidan or used any fel magic. so there fore i think that the blood part of blood elf is not a new race or faction but its simply shows that they are breaking away from the alliance and what they formerly were... ILLIDAN FTW *User:stormrage1313666

Red Power (aka: Social Implications of Blood Elves to Horde)

The following is an observation, rather then a factual statement. Take it with a grain of salt. Recently, I jumped ship from the Alliance in order to prepare for the eventual BC rollout. I've played Alliance since the begining and had no horde characters to speak of until now.

Anyone who's played WoW, or even just looked at the census data, knows what race reigns supreme in wow... players like humans (dead or otherwise). They like elves too, but they like humans a lot. Across all the servers, humans, night elves, and forsaken make up some 70% of all player characters. So what happens when Blood Elves come on board? Let's face it, the blood elves are, well, attractive. Both from the simple visual design, and the numbers and racials.

Until now, it's been my belief that people who played horde did so because they saw value in the strengths of the horde, particularly the racial specs. Alliance had numbers, Horde had depth. Because invariably there were people turned off from the horde by appearances. With the Blood Elves, that changes. Now, it's possible to be an elf with human skin tones and human hair, and kicking racials to boot.

So what happens to the horde when the new "we make this look good" race comes to town?

If I were a long time horde player, I'd be terrified. The worst case scenario, as I see it, is that the traditional horde roles will be replaced with blood elves in the same tasks. Shamanism will disappear, replaced by arcane Blood Elf casters. The horde that was will become little more then brutes; ugly tanks to be LFG'ed when needed. Piroko 06:56, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

  • shrugs* play on PvP servers more. They on average have a 1:1 ratio. Population weighted problems are kinda non-existant. The problem would probably be really only hit hard when it comes to new PvE servers that may come out along with the expansion. I know I will be rolling a side BE pally just for a "pretty face" char. Pzychotix 07:02, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
  • I play PvP almost exclusively. Azgalor for Alliance, Mal'Ganis for my new horde mage. I was thinking more along the lines of social dynamics. I know full well the blood elves will be popular. Everyone will start one. My greater concern is whether it leads to a 'two horde' mentality among players. An 'us-vs-them' situation where people reroll blood elf from Alliance and then start whining to Blizzard to increase the possibilities for cooperation between horde and alliance players. Piroko 09:25, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
Hmm, an interesting viewpoint. I doubt it will have that effect though - being an alliance or horde player is not like a deep seated belief - people are quite able to play both sides (though some fools might disagree). Only a vocal minority seem to insist on the us v them mentality, whereas most are actually capable of realising no such thing need exist or matter. If there manages to be a within-faction split, I shall be surprised, if only by the idiocy of those making it appear. Of course shamanism won't disappear, that's just silly - firstly BEs can be shamans, and secondly, do you really think all those people will give up on all their level 60s just to play another specific race/class combo? (thirdly, the shaman class will become much more attractive now that it can be separated from paladins more easily) -- Kirkburn 06:55, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Personally I've played on PvP servers and on both sides. The alliance seems to have the upper hand in raiding and doing high level dungeon crawls when all the bad players or "noob" players get weeded out. Yet when it comes to Battlegrounds, or heck even World PvP the alliance pretty much stink. They're either fighting with each other or they will believe that they can go along their business grinding or questing and when a high level horde ganks them they freak. Battlegrounds are even worse. They flood the instance with 10's-13's in 10-19 WSG and 20's-23's in AB and they scream and yell at each other cause everyone except them needs to learn2play. And they believe that in past lore that the horde were evil and the alliance were good guys. Actually the opposite is true, whereas the horde are just trying to make due (except the Foresaken) the alliance are more geared to horde genocide, and world domination and cleansing. Also the horde seem to do well at raiding, as well as the player community is great, low idiot counts, possibly to the lack of people who say, "ooo pretty race I wana b tem" Even in barrens chat there are still a ton of people that are helpful and pretty much, not jerks. Also it seemed the same way in other mmorpgs. Star Wars Galaxies (the original) had a ton of rebel player guilds, that pretty much sucked. Whereas the few empire guilds were really really good. To me it seems that no matter what mmog it is, the "evil/ugly" races/factions tend to attract more mature knowledgable players. Bringing blood elves to the horde will probably do a lot of bad to the good community of the horde. Just from my perspective. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kire317 (talk · contr).

And who's perspective is that? lol? ye fergot yer name bud :). Also, yer assumptions are groundless, you're basing yer ideas on the main idea that people who like decent looking races are morons -_- Idk bout you but I like nice lookin races, (Although I just like blood elves and high elves just cuz... well it's a long story but basically I spent alot of time trying to figure who i liked most and i realized one day that there was something about the high and blood elves that clicked.. before i had liked NE's but somehing about em... didn't click fer me.... I guess it was mainly that I dislike the Idea of such a tree hugging race that actually uses nature as their main source of magic and stuff...) and you know... until BE's before I bought wow... I had wondered which race i'd actually be... cuz idk bbout you guys... but the idea that alliance is the pretty squad... aint true... I don't think dwarves and gnomes look all to good... and humans... face it the males are hideous compared to real life... NE's were the only nice looking race but I didn't like the classes of NE's(No mage or lock or pally). so I just think it should be known... that pretty race doesn't really equal jack ass.Feldaldor 08:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Kire317, in that "ooo pretty race I wanna be them" stating. I`ve always played Horde in WOW, but have tried a Night elf and a dwarf just for checkin out the Alliance. Almost every time I`ve played with those two I`ve been Suprised how many noobs there are at the Ally side. Then I think; thank hell we dont have that in the Horde. Let`s face it, even though there is 12 years old rating for the game, it should have been higher, like 15 years. The reason for all the noobs in WOW on the Ally side, is probably that when those 12 years old first start up the character creation screen they choose Alliance because the races look like Disney-figures they`ve seen on TV or the movies. And kids around 12-13 years almost always choose "nice-looking characters" in other games, be fighting, RPG, you name it. While players that are older tends to choose Horde, since they think more about the lore and not thinking so much about having a nice-looking characters, more about the background of the race. Personally, I chose my main as a orc warrior because of orcs being proud warriors that believe in strenght and honor, things I believe in in the real world. Besides, I cant stand the holy light religion of the humans, just reminds me of the stupid real world religions. Another thing I`ve thought about is how many hard rock and metal fans there are on Horde. Me and my gang are metal fans, with bands like METALLICA, Finntroll, Hammerfall, System of A Down etc. and we all play Horde as main. Forsaken dance for ex. and then again how many 10 to 14 year olds listen to that kinda music? About the Blood Elves coming to Horde; WTF!? I first thought, both about the lore and lots of noobs coming to Horde. The lore went ok, but after BC; many noobs in Horde. Still there are some 12 years old that are so mature they are like playing with a 18 year old, so I`m not meaning every kid in WOW is a noob. Still no denying it the blood elves brought many noobs to the Horde. As Kire317 also said about PVP, Allies freak when going in PVP in world and being ganked by high level Horde players; I dont know how many low level Ally I`ve killed in World PVP, especially when running new alts of my friends. That`s another point to childish Ally players, I dont give rats damn if I`m killed by a higher lvl Ally when I go in PvP, I dont even have to repair. That`s the threat of going in PvP. boleviken 12:05, 2. April 2008

Kal'Dorei or Sin'Dorei

I have a though. The Blood Elves originate from the High Elves right? Well then, the High Elven Modles must have some models of different colored Night Elves. It is also possible that some Blood Elven Models are from Night Elven Models, right?

In WoW, the high elf models are totally separate to the night elf models if I recall correctly. The blood elf models are also a completely new model, but with a similar design to the high elf model (although it is not known if the high elves will also use this new model). Any help? -- Kirkburn 13:37, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
Logical if-then thinking is often a waste of time when it comes to Blizzard. You'd likely get more consistant predictions by tearing up last month's Newtype, dumping the shreaded pages in a hat, and pulling out words, like IGN does. Besides, at this point the High Elves are Noldor; all other lore at this point is pretty pointless since Blizzard decided to do the Mexican hat dance with Horde-Lore. Piroko 14:52, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
If you dislike it so much, tell Blizzard. Don't turn the wiki into a insult slinging match with comments like that. Blizzard know what they're doing, and it's not for you to dictate what is and isn't the 'correct' way forward - it's like dictating to a J.K.Rowling how Harry Potter should end :/ So far I have failed to see the problem with the recent changes - did you complain between War 2 and War 3 as well when they really changed a lot of stuff? I somewhat doubt it ... (this thread continues on User talk:Kirkburn :) -- Kirkburn 06:42, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

The coming blood elf models will likely replace the current high elf models. They'll just change the skin and eye colors and stuff. The current high elf models are built more like half-elves than high elves... --Kakwakas 15:48, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
And they all look anemic. Palest ghosts I've ever seen. A little skin tone wouldn't hurt you know. Pzychotix 07:33, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
Hopefully, with the final models, there will be a much more varied selection of skin tones - I wouldn't worry too much about it :) -- Kirkburn 11:00, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
The NE models are taller, longer eared, and even more rugged than BE and HE models. Also if the HE models looked like half elves they'd have smallers ears than they do and more bulkier bodies. Also... as for YOU Kirk.... it IS our place to critique the lore, especially if it effects the game itself in a large ways. This includes placing of races and such. You might THINK Blizzard knows what it's doing but I recently have seen otherwise. In Game Informer it was made aparent that Blizz only made the lore it did, to reflect it's new game changes and modifications, for instance the lack of a shaman in Alliance and Paladin in Horde, and of course... lol... the pretty versus... not so pretty... issue. The lore changes Blizz has made has outraged me and the choicing of turning dreinei into Eredar really annoyed me. Cuz face it in WC3 Akama and friends DID NOT have tenticles coming from their chins. And... well I'd love to take it up with wow my distatste for how their doing things... but I'm one guy.. I have no backing except my own strong opinion and I won't be taken seriously. and at this point Blizzard isn't likely to change things to ways I'd like them to...Feldaldor 09:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Really really old discussion much?Bagginshobbit.pngBagginstalk § contr
And who are you to gimme grief about which discussions I give input on?Feldaldor 17:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
One, I'm an admin here. Two, this discussion was a year ago... Its oudated, it was speculation made before The Burning Crusade was ever released, when people didn't have any information on what was going to happen in the expansion, and I'm pretty sure those involved don't care anymore... Essentially you are probably posting to deaf ears... At this point if you really had a bone to pick you'd probably get a better reaction if you posted your comments directly to Kirkburn's talk page...Bagginshobbit.pngBagginstalk § contr

Ohhhh sp you are someone of authority... ok then don't act like a rude smart mouth... it's not becoming of an admin of any sort, cuz even being admin doesn't give ya the right to gimme grief i think :DFeldaldor 07:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned you are the only one being a "rude smart mouth", and you are the only one trying to "grief" people. All I've done is be helpful by pointing out that a discussion this old is not likely to be answered at this point, and that you would have been better directing your post to the poster via his talk page, if you wanted an answer back.
Also you seemed to have missed the point that when Kirkburn originally posted that he knew next to nothing of what would be in Expansion but little bit that was told to the public, and what info existed at the time seemed to fit what he knew. That doesn't mean he kept that opinion after release however, after he access to the full details. So you are likely argueing on something that is no longer relevent to him, or part of his current opinion.Bagginshobbit.pngBagginstalk § contr07:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I appeal for calm. Feldador, Baggins had a valid point that you were responding to comment I made almost exactly a year ago (seeing August in the timestamp is indeed fairly confusing). Blizzard have always made their changes to suit their games, and to try and fool yourself otherwise is silly - however that is certainly not to say they do not care for it. Anyway, I'm pretty sure when the original comments were made, this had not been turned into a lore discussion page, and was intended to be about the article, hence my comments. Feldador, you are well within your rights to complain about changes (though not on normal article talk pages), but it is preferable that it was off-wiki, or at least written with less "..." :) User:Kirkburn/Sig3 07:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Sigh unfortunately kirk yer input has a bit less impact on me because it's likely that yer biased due to the fact that I disagreed with you.Oh and sry but at the time I was unaware that this post was that old, (I sometimes ferget to look at dates). and Baggins you better back up what you say, explain how I'm giving grief? And I'm sorry but your post was "Really really old discussion much?" if you didn't notice... and that's a sarcastic remark which in my book often ='s smart mouth you could have easilly worded that differently. And when you put quotes around my words that also sometimes means yer mauking me. And I'm sorry but I don't see where I'm being a smart mouth I've been fairly polite, except once you made that post. Now as for the talk page... you didn't post anything about that untill after I questioned your post. You sure you were just trying to be helpful? I can easily be wrong but if you wanted to be helpful ouldn't of been better to include that talk page info in yer initial post? And lastly Kirk I respect your opinion... but if baggins was being calm his wording would have been different...I may have seemed less calm due to the fact I was on the defensive against what seemed to me at the time like a rude attitude... If you wish to continue this... I'd prefer that we did so somewhere else. I don't want to flood this page with unrelated bickering.Feldaldor 21:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood Elf Paladin (Blood Knight) Mounts

Moved from Wowpedia talk:Village pump   --Mikk (T) 09:46, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

While the Blood Elf's racial mount will probably be the cockatrice, will the Blood Elf's Paladins get those smexy horses? Charger quest and stuff are all Alliance quests. So will there be Blood Elf NPC for the Paladin horses? Or will there be unique quest with different mounts for Blood Knights? Personally I prefer horses... I think Blood Elves will look freakin sexy on beautiful horses ala LOTR Discuss? --Invin Dranoel 09:25, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Yes, they will get Charger horses. Can't link you the source in here, though ;) --Tinkerer 09:26, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
Sweet... I kinda think Blood Elves will look funny riding on Chickens... --Invin Dranoel 09:33, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
The blood knight warhorses are red instead of blue, too. --Kakwakas 14:57, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Blood Elves will not just get the choice of having the class no other horde race can have. We can also have a wider range of Mounts. This is sounding cooler and cooler by the second. --Invin Dranoel 08:24, 3 October 2006 (EDT)

Blood Elves get these Chargers!! they look awesome, its the fourth picture

They're not Chickens! They're Chocobos! Which is why it was funny when I aggrovated two people until they raced with them. --AmrasCalmacil 14:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Blood Elf Maturity

Something I'm pondering (For ingame reasons) is what age Blood Elves reach maturity at, I recall reading somewhere (I belive it was Wikipedia, on a page which I can no longer find) that maturity was reached at 110. Anyone know? --AmrasCalmacil 14:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Now what?

Ok, with 2.4 having at least the paladins redeemed and with Velen, M'uru, and A'dal believing that this leads on to the rest of the race turning around, what happens next? Obviously, they have resolved their own internal issues and can settle the score with the Lich King, but based off the information that we have, there's not going to be as much emphasis on the BE's in WotLK as there will be on dwarves, forsaken, tauren, etc., which is a good move on Blizzard's part. As much as I love them, the Blood Elves need to give the others a turn in the limelight.

In the mean time, what does happen? There are indications that they would end up a very Light devoted people. It kinda looks like they have a similar story to the orcs, only instead of turning from Demons to shamanism, they turn from demon's to Light.

As far as relationships go, this could easily strengthen their relations to the Orcs, seeing how much they now have in common; their change in attitude towards the light may put off their forsaken allies, although they still do have their hatred of the Lich King as common ground. If they turn towards the light enough, the spirituality of the situation may appeal to the Tauren, and I have no idea about the trolls. As far as Alliance relationships go, they may or may not be moved to forgive the Humans for Garithos' bigotry and betrayal, they are not likely to get any closer at all to the NE's, I have no idea about the dwarves or the gnomes, and at least Velen is quite friendly with Blood Elves, and the Shattered Sun offensive relations might help these two rivaling races patch things up. Or it coud all fall apart like the Human/Orc alliance of the 3rd war. I doubt we'd see any of these changes really take place within WoW. We'd probably need to wait for either a WoW 2 or a Warcraft 4, assuming one of those two will ever be created. On the other hand, it's possible that it could be covered in a comic, manga, novel, or RPG manual. Any thoughts?Meneldir 06:00, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Old Alliance Ties

Well, to answer my questiion above, WotLK has the BEs applying for readmission to the Kirin Tor. Granted they aren't recieveing a warm welcome (this shows that that they certainly aren't rejoinging the HE;s soon). That said, these elves seem to be more willing than anyone else in the horde to put aside differences and work with people who they hate and who hate them. First the Shatterend Sun OFfensive working with Draenei who despise the them, then working with the Kirin Tor full of Humans who they feel betrayed them and HE's who have formed a n anti-Be society. Add to that, their orcish allies having huge trouble with Draenie, and their Forsaken Allies not so friendly with Dalaran Mages, does anyone else see the irony here? Meneldir (talk) 05:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)