This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Death knight article.

Archived discussions: Talk:Death knight/Archive1, Talk:Death knight/Archive2, Talk:Death knight/Archive3

Please read Starting a death knight, before posting questions about starting gameplay of Death knights in Wrath of the Lich King.


Dead or alive?

Are the playable Death Knights simply living mortals infused with necromantiv power, or are they walking rotting corpses just like the Undead Forsaken?--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 01:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

They are like the forsaken... to put it simply. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 08:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense at all, and I believe you are wrong. The Alliance sees the Undead Forsaken (who are undead humans) as enemies because of their undead condition. But now the Alliance would suddenly accept undead humans in the form of Death Knights into their ranks? Besides, the Death Knights doesn't look very dead (compared to the playable Undead-race). Arthas never had to die to become a Death Knight.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 12:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Taking the group as a whole, no. Death knights are not inherently undead. They can be either/or, depending on the circumstances under which they joined the Scourge. The player death knights, however, ARE undead. It's made quite clear in both the opening narration and the intro quest chain that you died in battle and got raised as a death knight. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 13:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Create a DK and then you'd understand Odolwa, and I did say "to put it simply". I never said they were in fact exactly like the forsaken. And given the circumstances any faction would accept creatures that they wouldn't normally, if it were to help defeat a greater enemy. You think the forsaken were welcomed with open arms into the horde? User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I understand. In that case, all in-game Death Knights should be classified as "Undead Death Knight", instead of "Human Death Knight", "Troll Death Knight", etc. --WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 21:22, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The major reason for this confusion is how Blizzard handles Undead: They are always Ghuls, Skeletons or rotten corpses having lain a week or two in a tomb, instead of corpses being raised only minutes after death (which is the case at most of the undead), with few exceptions like Sylvanas, and, recently, the playable Death Knights. Oberscht (talk) 00:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC) And the "Forsaken" are a organization, not a race. The alliance doesn't like them because even with their free minds they kept being aggressive towards them... Meanwhile the Ebon Blade is a completely new organization. Oberscht (talk) 00:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The Forsaken (note uppercase) of the Horde are a faction of free-willed undead of a type that I have unofficially termed "revenants." Some "revenants" (such as Stalvan Mistmantle) are considered undead, others (such as player characters and members of the Twilight cults) are considered humanoids.  The term "forsaken" (note lowercase) tends to refer to all humanoid-type "revenants," whether or not they're affiliated with the Horde.

Now, with that out of the way: My thought on death knights is that they're rather like the Abyssal Exalted (who are, by the way, also called "deathknights") of White Wolf's Exalted.
IconSmall Draenei Female.gif Farseer Loloteacontrib 01:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

What the Forsaken are is a faction of free willed undead who banded under Sylvanas. the term forsaken does NOT mean any form of free willed undead who is just listed humanoid... Some of the scourge's forces arent dead. Like their necromancers, they are usually alive. Sure there are SOME dead necromancers but that doesnt mean they are forsaken. A free willed undead is just that, a free willed undead. You said that forsaken are all humanoid "revnants" which is inaccurate, a forsaken is a undead who has free will under the leadership of sylvanas. If a free willed undead doesnt join sylvanas they arent a forsaken. Sylvanas came up with the name in warcraft 3. Refering to HER undead. The humanoid listing is a gameplay mechanic to make it fair to players, I mean really noone would play a forsaken because they'd be getting spells spamed at them by paladins. Also Death Knights ARE dead. They were killed and raised by the scourge, it says it during numerous quests when you make a death knight, even in the opening speach of a DK.--User:Whitedragon254You know im seriously 1337 now. {T1337 to the extreme.CThe dragon protects me...that and my MG 30 glock of course..) 14:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

But then again: They were indeed 'reunited with their souls' as the letters of Tirion's letters suggest. Now then if they were undead the whole time and now being reunited with their souls is something worth mentioning then it might mean that having their soul = being alive, even if having a body that is held together by necromantic magic. Of course it doesn't really matter if they are officially dead. What counts is not the little number that will be on their grave stone at their eventual death (lore-wise they CAN die, see: Arthas) the thing that really matters and bugs me is: Do they have feelings? When they see someone they used to battle together with against hordes of enemies, can they sit down and laugh with them about the good ol' days, nostalgiacly? Or the only laugh they can produce is the laugh over miserable death of others? --Ictiv (talk) 18:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


i've heard allot of rumors going around concerning what specs add up to what. i've heard Frost=Tank Blood=DPS and Unholy=PVP

i read on wiki that each are basically suited to eachothers needs...but isn't there one that has a little bit of a heads up on the others? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tasque (talk · contr).

Each tree and tank or dps, it's mostly a matter of personal preference.   Zurr  TC 10:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Black Metal?

"The appearance, mannerisms and even some of the names of NPC characters used by the Death Knights in World of Warcraft are based off of the Black Metal subgenre of music. Notable are the names of the talent specializations Blood, Frost and Unholy which all appear in Norwegian Black Metal band Immortal's thematic elements in their music. Of particular note is the phrase used by Death Knights as a parting statement, "Suffer Well", which is commonly used by fans of the band Satyricon in the same manner."

First off, the apearance has little to do with Black metal influence (they are based off of Wc3 Death knights, which I would hardly consider resembling Black metal). Blood Frost and Unholy aren't black-metal specific (Immortal Souls wouldn't be considered black metal, they use the themes, as do many other bands). "Suffer Well" is a single off album "Playing the Angel" by Depeche Mode, who also mentions "frost" in the same song, so I'm not sure why it would be a Black metal reference only since they are an electronic/synthpop band. Not to mention the entire thing is unsourced. Doomhand (talk) 03:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Still, I'd say the original poster has some valid points from a speculation point of view. Also it is known that (at least) Samwise is a BIG metal fan so it's not that much of a stretch to think the original poster's theory might have some merit, if only as speculation. Xarantaur (talk) 14:03, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I need help :)

I am an 80 death knight. Its easy for me to kill stuff but i have a bunch of crappy gear. my only epic is my hateful gladiator hands that i got from VOA. People ask me what my hit cap and stuff are and i have no idea how to figure that out so can someone email me at or just reply to this to tell me how to figure that stuff out and also where i can get some better gear. thanks. 5/6/09

Your best bet is to read There are discussion threads for DK dps which will help you out. Also, reading the articles on here can help for starters too. Paly 1 (talk) 03:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Join a guild and start raiding. The hit cap is 9% and is based on your hit rating. Check your character pane ('C'). --User:ShandrisForever 12:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Added New Rune Frames

I been watching this wiki a long time and it drove me crazy that it only showed the blizzcon 2007 frame, so I finally added the beta and the newest frames, hope you dont mind :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mightylink (talk · contr).

And thanks to Coobra and Fandyllic for providing a better final frame, sorry im new to wikis >.< Mightylink (talk · contr).
No problem. Thanks for the addition! You can ping me if you have questions. /chomp‎ Howbizr(t·c) 2:50 PM, 7 Jul 2009 (EDT)

Account Transfer?

ok so what happens if I have A lvl 55 and I make a DK. If I transfer him to my other account will I be able to play as him, or do I need a lvl 55on that account also?rconorfox 12:43, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

Blood Elf Death Knight(?)

Like Sylvanas, the Blood Elf Death knights were first of all High Elfs of the Alliance. Right? Now the easiest way to continue the reasoning how things happen lorewise, is saying that after this they simply became of the Scourge when Arthas stormed Silvermoon as a Death Knight himself, killing 90% of the High Elfs. But this can't be right. Then "Blood Elf Death Knight" would be called "High Elf Death Knights"? But they aren't, also in the ending Death Knight quest, it's quoted "you were once a hero of the Horde"... - High Elfs were allied with the Alliance - Therefore you are able to take the portal to Orgrimmar...

So, these Blood Elf Death Knights, who weren't quite yet Death Knights nor even Blood Elfs, would NOW start to call themselves Blood Elfs, the Children of the Blood, those who survived the fall of Silvermoon and the Sunwell. And they join the Horde since they thought Alliance failed to aid them.

Now. When being no longer of the Alliance, or a High Elf, the Lich King/Arthas will kill them, then raise and convert them to these Death Knights. After serving the Scourge for a while they, the Death Knights, are betrayed by Arthas, afterwards joining Horde again.

So they go from Alliance, Horde, Scourge, then finally Horde again.

Now "Blood Elfs Death Knights" are Undead(the condition), Forsaken(socially edit:since they free from the Lich King"), High Elfs(biologically), Blood Elfs(socially)... (?)

What are they really? Being a Blood Elf Death Knight is quite confusing.

Maybe someone has mentioned this before, but this page is very messy. Merala (Talk) 00:45, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's very heavily implied that most if not all of the playable death knights were members of the Argent Dawn who died in battle, so they could easily have entered into the service of the Scourge after joining the Horde. The one exception is Koltira, who could have chosen to identify with his homeland of Quel'Thalas rather than the few scattered "true" high elves out there. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:13, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
So, they were first of the Alliance as High Elfs, then the Horde as Blood elf AND as a member of the Argent Dawn. Then they got killed in battle, entered the service of the Scourge. And then we know the rest of the story if we simply level a death knight and read the quest logs... But still, what race is a so called "Blood Elf Death Knight" really? Like I said, biologically they are High Elfs, Undead as a condition, Forsaken since they managed to get free from the Lich King's grasp and a Blood Elf - the small remaining amount of High Elfs who survived? Merala (Talk) 01:21, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
I guess the faction of which a Blood Elf Death Knight belongs to is up to each player. How I interpret it, you are actually priviliged to be either Forsaken or Blood Elf, depending on to which you feel more loyal; The Undead High Elf Sylvanas, or the (alive) Blood Elf Lor'themar. Or maybe both? Merala (Talk) 12:48, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
These double-crossing lore changes can be annoying but all can be explained if you really put your mind to it. I think that the timeline doesn't goes like "year 25: everything in WoW; 26: everything in BC", but something like this: The first 60 levels of the game are happening in the year 25 (as the offical timeline says) but then: Blood Elves and Draenei happen to be starting at level 1 so in my opinion they were supposed to be there all along, but like 70% of the World of Warcraft, they weren't shown. (Lore says Theramore is three day ride from Ashenvale, on presumably galloping epic mount but the world isn't that big). This is also true to Death Knights. Some time near the opening of the Dark Portal (year 26) Arthas lost his grip over the Plaguelands (since all raids there were supposedly done by level 60-s before the opening of the portal, and therefore it is also explained how death knights get to fight Illidian if they choose to.
So on a recap: Every race of BC was present before BC (lore-wise) only wasn't shown.
Extra thought: So what's up with the new races? (See below in "What should happen with dk-s topic) And in the time line? How come the goblins play from level one on the side of the horde? Well my theory is that since most quests get deleted, the entire world shift... Basically the Cataclysm restarts the cycle and all new level 1-s start in year 28 (27 being WotLK). How can they go to Outlands then and Fight the Lich King then you ask? Well here's the answer:... I have no idea, but enjoy the darn game will ya?! :D --Ictiv (talk) 18:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

What should happen with Death Knights ?

If the Arthas is dead now , and Bolvar took over his place as a Lich King , will Death Knights eyes glow orange instead of blue ? Also i wonder who will be standing on his place in Acherus after Cataclysm goes live... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Morlokoskad (talk · contr).

Well it takes place in the past, so i'm pretty sure nothing will change, except a worgen and goblin NPC at the chapel. Hallowseve15 (talk) 15:31, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
At the same time, Worgen an Goblins joined Alliance/Horde after the Lich King died. No logic there.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 15:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
Death knight process takes place in the past and comes into the present. No DKs will not have orange fiery eyes, Bolvar is unique in that the fire from the red flight changed him. Please sign your posts, here I thought Hallowseve was asking a question then answering himself... Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 18:19, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
To Odolwal: Since I'm writing a fanficton, I've been thinking of the same thing, however i realized that it does makes sense on a certain level. Goblins and Wogen existed before Cataclysm, only didn't take sides. So for me it goes something like this:
Worgen: There's lots of them in Loarderon, some of them attacked the Scourge and got killed, Arthas raised them as Death Knights and once they are freed they don't have much choice, but go fight (They're Death Knights that's kind of what they 'live' for) and since the Forsaken doesn't exactly like Worgen and they are infact partly human their best shot is joining hands with some alliance heroes even though the other worgen didn't join the alliance yet.
Goblin: Some goblins always been at the wrong place, to be at the wrong time as well was predictable. Again some goblins got beat up by scourge (perhaps in Hasic?) and taken to Arthas. Goblins and Gnomes are pretty much the same deal, except the goblins like to go "boom" which is actually a good thing for the Scourge so obviously, they got raised. Once freed (again) they gotta do something and since from the Horde and Allaince, the Horde likes them more (not to mention the race between gnomes and goblins) they joined the Horde, just like many of their brethren already did (see past + zeppelins).
This is just my take on it, and as soon as they get implanted the letters from Tirion to the respective faction leaders will probably say something else but... Who really cares that much? :D WoW's awesome and... (looks at wall of text) Holy Molly! I better bid farewell. Have fun all!--Ictiv (talk) 18:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
To be frank, how Worgen become Death Knights leaves me clueless. The moment the Worgen appear into the world, is the moment Cataclysm hits Azeroth. Which is after the LK has been killed. So prior to this, the Worgen curse has not been seen in the world. Apart from the little village of Pyrewood. So would Worgen DK's be Pyrewood-villagers? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wolfstorm11 (talk · contr).
Or potentially Grizzly Hills worgen. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:47, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
As Zeratul said. Some worgen was under the command in of Arugal, and then under Arthas thanks to Arugal's ressurection so there is not that much to be asked about "how they became DKs" but a lot more about the "why did they join the allince?". :/ --Ictiv (talk) 11:40, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Race Stat Charts

I was comparing a couple races on the charts to know what would be best for me and I found the pictures hard on the eyes. Could we use the regular pictures for the races here instead of the ones for Death knights?

This is the chart I'm talking about:

Death knight races

The pictures of the races strained my eyes from trying to tell them apart.-Abrahams (talk) 00:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Me personally, I think it should remain the same. My eyes are pretty crappy myself, but I can still tell them apart. ~EiorwrynIconSmall RavenGod.gif 23:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Remove External Link

The forums at are no longer active. The forum itself is only active with spammers for porn, etc... There are no truly informative posts in the past year that I could find. Possibly replace it with the link to the official WoW DK forum (not the greatest signal-to-noise ratio, but better than Sykotic (talk) 00:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Notable Death Knights

Updated this section to a table to match the style of other "notable persons" sections. Other notable death knights should be freely added. Crok Scourgebane comes to mind... -- Mebahiah (talk) 04:33, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


For purposes of clarity, I propose the removal of information related to the Death Knights of Warcraft II. The Death Knights of the Shadow Council already have their own page and their lore can go there. It does not belong on a page specifically related to the player-made death knights who are entirely former servants of the Scourge and members of the Ebon Blade. -- Mebahiah (talk) 17:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

This article is for all things death knight, as is the druid article is for druids, the hunter is for hunters and so forth. The page purpose is not solely for player-made characters. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 17:29, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
It's kind of tricky in this case, though, because the Scourge death knights really have very little in common with the Horde's death knights; apart from the name a one or two abilities, they're entirely different. From their creation (orc souls in human bodies vs. undead anythings), to their fundamental nature (armored warlocks vs. necromantic warriors), it really feels like they should have a separate page. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:49, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
They already do have a separate page: Death Knight (Warcraft II). Putting all things death knight on one page makes it redundant. Besides, this is a page specifically geared to the player class, hence the link to the disambiguation page on the top of the page. -- Mebahiah (talk) 18:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
On another note, the other class pages seem to differ in style greatly when compared to the Death Knight page. I already wrote up a possible replacement for the introduction and "Lore" sections. I could submit it and, of course, it could be changed back if it doesn't meet the standard. I based it on the page for Warrior. I don't want to change anything this big without some kind of consensus, though. -- Mebahiah (talk) 19:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Having a small section which talks about particular ones and points to the main article about them seems best, rather than removing them like they didn't exist, just because they're not the same. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 19:09, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
See, my idea was to put a short summary about the other types of death knights but make a link to their respective articles; the bulk of information on them would be in those articles. -- Mebahiah (talk) 19:12, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

On the Recent Edit

I made the edit. Should the other version be found better, feel free to revert it. Any helpful edits would be appreciated; this page needs love. -- Mebahiah (talk) 14:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Add Pandaren to the race list

There is an NPC Pandaren Deathknight in WoD. Her name is Gravewalker Gie. --EnderDragonfire (talk) 05:18, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Redirect from "Blood"

Shouldn't Blood redirect to Death Knight abilities#Specializations instead? Please, change it. I think, the consensus agrees with me as even that page itself says that Blood redirects there, yet it currently doesn't.--Adûnâi (talk) 13:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)