Are there any physical differences between a human from stormwind and one from Stromgarde? Or Alterac? I understand the need to establish the fact that the playable humans are offically from the kingdom of Stormwind, but unlike the trolls and dwarves, who's playable versions have phisological differences from there counterparts, and forsaken who have a physcological difference(if not being mindcontroled by the lich king counts as such), stormwind humans do not. If this distinction is made, then a similar one needs to be made for the orcs, as not all orcs are members of the horde, though they are physically the same as the ones who do serve the horde, fel orcs not included.Tweak the Whacked 19:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Its a nationality of humans, not a race (I.E. Humans that come from Stormwind), and according to World of Warcraft manual & website, they are the humans playable in the game. Just like Darkspears are a nationanality/clan within the jungle troll race, and are the playable trolls in the game.
- Ironforge dwarves is a bit broader in that it covers a number of clans living in Ironforge, including the major one, "Bronzebeard Clan".
- This article like the Darkspear and Ironforge dwarf articles are discussing the specific playable races, as Blizzard listed them, rather than the races as a whole.Baggins 20:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. Though I would ask that separate articles be created for "Durotar orcs" and "Silvermoon Blood elves", as these groups have been made distink, separate from there races as a whole.Tweak the Whacked 20:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Actually lore wise, if you follow the Silvermoon quests, the blood elves are very much still tied to Kael'Thas, see Rommath. Only your player finds out what the blood elves have become once they reach 60 and chooses to turn on them. It doesn't appear to be entire race turning on them however. This is supported in Monster Guide, 2007, btw.
- As for "durotar orcs" that's not quite right, the manual for the game just says they are "orcs" it doesn't specify them as coming from "durotar" specifically, but implies they come from many locations in the Horde. Remember these splits are based on manual text, not pulled out of thin air.Baggins 21:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Well obviously no playable orc is "from" Durotar, the nation was only founded four-five years before the game starts. But the orc opening narration, at least, makes it clear that the playable orcs are part of the durotar nation, being discribed as "Proud defenders of Durotar". My point is that I believe there are enough, nonspeculative, differences between playable orcs and other orcs to warrent separate pages, a fact that was brought up, and unanswered, on the orc talk page some time ago, and since this is getting rather off topic for the talk page regarding stormwind humans(not my original intention) I suggest that we take any further discussion to the orc or blood elf pages, respectively.Tweak the Whacked 21:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Well, the intro might be good support for splitting off playable orcs, into "Horde orcs" or "Durotar orcs", or "Kalimdor orcs". However, splitting the blood elves doesn't quite work because lore wise they are still directly tied to the Kael'thas blood elves according to the manual (they are still waiting his return), Rommath, and quest lines in game. Rumor has it that they will be assisting Kael'thas return and Sunwell plateau thing. It's going to be the Horde against Silvermoon essentially.
- Lest you are intentially trying to keep this discussion horde centric, would be there be any specific citations that would warrant the split of say playable draenei from draenei article as a whole, or a split of night elves, or perhaps the tauren? etc? If we are going to go into this we need to pretty much discuss it for all the groups.Baggins 21:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
There might be some support for Orgrimmar orcs, or Durotar orcs in the manual too;
- Now based in the warrior city of Orgrimmar, the orcs look forward to a shining new future for their people. Though they are no longer driven by dreams of conquest, they stand ready to destroy all who would challenge their sovereignty or their supremacy. It is your duty to crush the enemies of Durotar, both seen and unseen, for the nefarious agents of the Burning Legion still wander the land.Baggins 21:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
The criteria for article splits is hard to say, but I think should be implamented when a large enough part of a race is not alligned with the horde or allaince respectively. The draenei page has it right, I think, in that there is a section regarding the separate factions of the race, showing that not all draenei are part of the allaince, not all answer to Velen. Similar sections should be added for the orc page, as well as the tauren, as a user discribed how several tauren tribes are independant of the "Thunder Bluff Nation" as he described it, though as what tribes are and are not part of the horde really isn't known, it limits what could be done with such a section. Troll and Forsaken pages are well split, so its mainly the orc page that needs work. Minor notes on the tauren and gnome pages could be listed.
But as I've said, the orcs are probably in the most need of disambiguation, since there is clearly a difference between the playable orcs and the orcs as a whole.Tweak the Whacked 21:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Well if there was a strong reason to split playable draenei out, I'd want to do it so that we could expand a bit on the offshoot groups, and add more screenshots of draenei subspecies. Much like we have done with the main Dwarf page. The playable content actually gets in the way of pure lore page like that.Baggins 21:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Gameplay mechanics do not equal lore. There are druid and priest spells that deal arcane damage, even though priests and druids wouldn't be caught dead using arcane magic. Anduin isn't going to be much of a challenge compared to Bolvar, and do you really think that they'd make a child a PvP boss? -- (talk · contr) 15:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a page for the new Human Racial?
I ask this because there's a page for the very similar Will of the Forsaken. The new Human Racial is called Every Man for Himself.
Humans of Stormwind
- I understand the change, but wouldn't this also influence the used terms 'Durotar orc' and 'Exodar draenei'? Unireal 4:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
- You might want to discuss this on the actual human page, not the playable one, and if you do think that they isn't any valid source that says that they are the most populous race, then feel free to discuss about it or remove it (like you're doing here but on the wrong page). --DoomeЯ TC 12:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Racial spell comparisons
Humans "Will to Survive" or Undeads "Will of the Forsaken" ??