Talk: Magistrate Barthilas

//Actually, he was killed much earlier - when an orc war party raided Stratholme to free Eitrigg, as it is written in Of Blood and Honor. That's why Barthilas is so... digested. (Posted by Finger of Death in the article)

I don't have access to Of Blood and Honor, but if the above is true, the article should be corrected to reflect it. It would also cast signficant doubt on whether the Barthilas from Of Blood and Honor is meant to be the same person as the Magistrate, since a decade or two would have passed following his death and the coming of the Scourge.--Aeleas 19:12, 16 August 2006 (EDT)

By the way, what's the source suggesting that the OB&H character is "definitely the same guy" as the Magistrate?--Aeleas 21:09, 16 August 2006 (EDT)

I've restored the section to the earlier version, which left it open as two whether these are the same character.--Aeleas 19:59, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Kinda coincidence if not... Of course, we must not forget Hakkar. XAVIUS, the Satyr Lord (Praise · Creations) 18:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

It's possible that Barthilas is his last name, and the paladin in Of Blood and Honor was merely a relative. -- Dark T Zeratul 01:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it can be someboddy totally different ofcourse, But look at the Loot Table, it is very, very much his surroundings:

Crimson Felt Hat (Nothing) Death Grips (Nothing) Peacemaker - Peacemaker, Ah, Now would you look at that, when he was murdered, a Spear struck his torso and killed him, the word "Peacemaker"..How would a mere monster (Abomination) hold such a item named PEACE maker? The Word Peace is when Barthilas was killed, and Hearthglen went back into the road of good (Presumable ofc) Magistrate's Cuffs - (Nothing) Idol of Brutality - Hmmn..Brutality ? If it was Idol of Vengeance IT was SURELY Barthilas' but Brutality..it is still part of him. Royal Tribunal Cloak - Not sure what Tribunal means, but it is "Royal" He was given ofcourse Royal gear ready to get to Hearthglen (Presumable)

Crimson Felt Hat, a Crimson hat, dunno, Deaths Grip, as he wanted to throttle Tirion FOrdring to death, Peacemaker, the spear that went through his Heart, MAgistrate Cuffs, his cuffs, The Idol of Brutality, his Essence of Brutal and Vengeance, a Royal Cloack..they all add up if you ask meBy the mother moon! and the white Stage! (talk) 13:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Same as the paladin

It seems he is alive in the Culling of Stratholme of the Cavern of Time. Retcon or a whole different character? --N'Nanz (talk) 15:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

[1] --N'Nanz (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

he may die in stratholme or just bit later - no real need for big retcon Noobi666 (talk) 17:41, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

In the article it's stated that he died "during Thrall's raid on Stratholme", a few years before the culling. --N'Nanz (talk) 17:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

With the number of characters I've come accross that share the same names, I'd suggest seperating the info.Baggins (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's wait until we have further information about he Culling character. If he doesn't appear to be a paladin of some sort, split is needed. --N'Nanz (talk) 17:57, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The 'Year of Fear' WoW Calendar for 2009 does actually confirm that the paladin and the wight are one and the same; it states that Magistrate Barthilas was 'Once a Paladin of the Silver Hand..'. I edited the article to reflect this. --Tolthalan (talk) 17:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Then they really retconned the timing on Of Blood and Honor; in the book he's described as being a fresh paladin, which means in his early 20s according to everything else we see. By the timeline described in OBaH, it's the better part of a decade before the Culling. If that's true... Barthilas sure ages quite a bit in such a short time.--Scieran (talk) 11:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Magistrate vs. paladin, redux

Going to revive this discussion as, after reading Of Blood and Honor for myself, I can't really see the Stratholme magistrate and the paladin from OB&H as the same character. For the two to be the same guy, the following would have to be true:

1. Barthilas survived getting impaled through the back with an orc spear and seemingly dying at the end of OB&H. I can accept this one, seeing as several other characters have had improbable survivals.
2. He got a pretty major promotion from his (temporary) role as lord of Mardenholde to being the magistrate of Stratholme (which in OB&H is described as the capital of the entire province that the Hearthglen principality was located in), despite the fact that his superiors Uther and Saidan both seemed to have a pretty strong dislike of him.
3. He aged dramatically from a blond paladin in his twenties (OB&H describes Tirion as being slightly over fifty, with Barthilas being nearly thirty years younger) to a balding gray-haired man.
4. All of the above happened in the span of only some three years between Of Blood and Honor and the Culling of Stratholme, at least based on the unofficial timeline (even shorter if we go by the official site's 2004 timeline published 3 years after OB&H's release).

As far as counterarguments go, we have the quote from the Year of Fear calendar which Tolthalan posted in 2008 (as seen in the above discussion). The Year of Fear page has no real information about the calendar, so I don't know which people from Blizzard were involved in writing the text bits. I realize that it's kind of asinine to try and dismiss a counterargument by saying "Well, the writers must have just made a mistake" or "The source is less canon than other Blizzard sources because I said so", and the wording does seem to imply that the intention was to confirm the paladin Barthilas and Magistrate Barthilas as the same person. On the other hand, it's clearly possible for two people from the same family to both join the Knights of the Silver Hand without being the same person, so I'd argue that Magistrate Barthilas being a former paladin doesn't automatically mean he's the same as OB&H's Barthilas.

To me, there's too much that doesn't make sense when assuming that the magistrate and the OB&H character are the same, so I think the better solution would be to split the page between Magistrate Barthilas and Barthilas (Of Blood and Honor) (or something along those lines), with a Notes section on both addressing the inconsistency. -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 18:38, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

He says his parents are deceased ... could it possible that they are meant to be the same characters, he's just using a weird model? Xporc (talk) 21:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

"He says his parents are deceased", and? The magistrate could still be the paladin's uncle or grandfather or something. -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 22:02, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I dunno, Occam's razor would lead me to believe they are the same characters, just with an awkward haircut, but this stuff already happened with the Abbandises so whatever Xporc (talk) 22:30, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I'd argue that the Occam's razor assumption in this case would be that they're not the same characters since they have almost nothing in common aside from the name. Is anyone arguing that Willem from Northshire and Willem from Tides of Darkness have to be the same character? -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 11:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)