Talk: Timeline

Previous discussions archived:

• Talk:Timeline/Archive01 (February 20th, 2006 - October 1st, 2012)

The RPG Dates

Since the RPG are non-canon, what should we do with the dates only stated there? For example, the date of Mythology of the Titans and the betrayal of Sargeras were dated in the RPG, and nowhere else. I would delete them, but I prefer to ask first. Maybe there are other options. --Cemotucu (talk) 02:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

For now, probably just make sure they're properly sourced as having come from the RPG. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:20, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Pandarian Lore

Someone should probably add the things we have dates for.

• -12,000 = Fall of the Mogu Empire
• -10,000 = creation of the Sha. Pandaria hidden in mists by Shaohao

I'm not sure if they've given a date for Lei Shen's ascension to power or Liu Lang's departure from Pandaria, but those things might be worth mentioning as well. --ShaddaStarsong (talk) 08:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Warlords of Draenor's Alternative Timeline

While it is true that we are in 31 ADP during the Warlords of Draenor expansion, wouldn't the fact that we travel 35 years in the past send us to Year 4 BDP instead of 19 BDP, since it matches the calculation (31 ADP - 35 = -4 = 4 BDP) more properly while still corresponding to the new lore interfering with the events of Rise of the Horde? TheGim (talk) 02:30, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Two Years of Cataclysm

Metzen said DW death to the end of MoP is 1 year. Copeland confirmed from Metzen that Azeroth at the end of MoP is now year 31. That puts the end of Cata/start of MoP at year 30, as described in the UVG. So while Cata started in 28, its events took place over the course of 2 years. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:44, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

I found another source indicating that it was about a year between the Cataclysm itself and Deathwing's demise, and added it in. That should make things a bit clearer. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:50, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The Sundering (Past) ends

Why is this under 9000 years ago? Sundering didn't last 1000 years.--Mordecay (talk) 15:15, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Yea, The Sundering didn't last 1000 years. Appears person was trying to line it up with the -9000 given for the unaltered timeline given on the official site. But The Sundering's events differ greatly from how things went originally without time travel. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Ah, yes, re-read the last chapters and in the novel, creation AND the blessing occurred shortly after the sundering of the world and there was no gap of 1000 years. Do we mention this on the page that wota trilogy changed that? --Mordecay (talk) 19:59, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Timeline B - how do we handle it?

Since we already know about the alternate timeline existing prior to Garrosh's arrival, and some of the events happening a bit differently than in the prime timeline, how should we handle it?

A new section, or a shared section with 31 ADP, with all previous events documented in its respective years marked with alternate timeline note, or maybe something else?

Discuss.

User:Insivel/sign 09:39, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Considering how little there is of pre-Garrosh Timeline B, I think how it is now with the pointer is fine. Most everything will be concurrent with the expansion and "year 31 Azeroth". --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand what the 2 years building of the Iron Horde army means. We know that Garrosh's arrival and the drinking happened both in year -4 on AU Draenor. The technology is already in use when the drinking happens. So is that picture trying to say that from the drinking (or arrival) passed 2 years and then AU Draenor is connected to MU Azeroth? If so, wouldn't Azeroth's years move on too? I have been under the impression that we are in Draenor's -4 year. --Mordecay (talk) 23:03, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

It's more about the age of the machines when we see them in WoD. They are 2 years old at most, as indicated in the citation.

The opening scene with the demon blood in the cinematic only takes place a few months after Garrosh arrived and convinced Grom to turn against Gul'dan, as indicated in the short story. There's really just that one Iron Star and a few catapults, we don't really see any signs of the massive industrialization here.

The now of year 31 is just the time-period the Vision of Time shards are resonating with. Any passage of time before the DP was opened and made the connection doesn't really matter.

It's also possible that Blizzard scrapped that 2-year-old-army idea since BlizzCon. But I haven't seen anything to indicate this. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 23:32, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

-19

Rise of the Horde (Past) ends - what exactly this refers to? The past of RotH is meant to be Argus, no?--Mordecay (talk) 19:11, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure it means Durotan's childhood. ReignTG (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Yea, I think so too. Grom was born in Year -26 and is only a few years older than Durotan. The Draenor "past" part has Durotan almost 12 years old. That part of the novel should be around -10ish. Then it jumps a few years for Drakka to become of age on their courtship hunt (A Warrior Made shows child-Durotan holding newborn-Drakka). It then jumps a few more years again before Ner'zhul is visited by KJ and calls all the clans together; Kashur and Garad died during the intervening time.

Going by the time references in Rise of the Horde the war started around Year -3. It was a few months before Kil'jaeden began teaching Gul'dan to be a warlock. When presenting the demon blood, Gul'dan says they had advanced further in the last 2 years than they had in 2 centuries due to Kil'jaeden. Then 6 months later, the DP was opened. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:40, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Retcons retcons retcons (not really)

I almost fell from chair reading this!

Ten years passed after the fall of Archimonde in Kalimdor, and the Horde, led by Warchief Thrall, expanded its ranks and embraced the Forsaken as allies. (Annual 2015)

Ten years?!

Archimonde's fall year - 21. World of Warcraft - year 31.

I can't even!--Mordecay (talk) 10:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't pay much attention to that, not after the UVG was published and Loreology confirmed it depicted the official timeline of events. Though maybe getting a confirmation wouldn't hurt. Cemotucu (talk contribs) 15:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Times change :P Even their internal timeline (if it is really that in UVG) can change considering there is a year gap between the two books, no? Well, hope Micky will respond. --Mordecay (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hopefully! Cemotucu (talk contribs) 15:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

How Long Did Pandaria Last?

Currently this page states it was about a year, but I think it was much longer than that. As Nathreim mentioned in a thread in the Story Forum, according to Shadows of the Horde, we landed in Pandaria sometime in winter. Vol'jin and the Daggers in the Dark Scenario occurred during spring, and Vol'jin wasn't even talking nor recovering until mid summer. This was all well before the Throne of Thunder, the Rebellion and the Siege of Orgrimmar. Do we have any sources confirming that Pandaria was a year long?

I'll also add that all of the Sean Copeland twitter links I've run across lead to a dead end in Twitter. I don't think any of those links work. Cannibeans (talk) 00:26, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Metzen said DW death to end of Pandaria was a year.[1] This was then re-affirmed from Metzen more recently via Loreology. Loreology's tweet links don't work anymore because he deleted his account. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 02:45, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Battle for Light's Hope Chapel

Reading  [The Path of Redemption] got me thinking... When the Scarlets left EK, they built New Hearthglen and Barean Westwind returned to the town... and he told Abbendis that "The Alliance and the Horde were going to come en masse in response to a great plague that the Lich King was about to unleash upon them." Is that sentence trying to say that the fall of the Scarlet Enclave and attack on the Light Chapel happened before the plague hit the capital cities?? --Mordecay (talk) 20:19, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the "great plague" is referring to the WotLK Scourge invasion, not the actual 3rd War Plague of Undeath. The WotLK invasion is what caused the Horde and Alliance to invade Northrend en masse. Neither the 3rd War nor the Vanilla Scourge attacks prompted that kind of response. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:47, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Hmm... where do you see the Third War in this?? I'm asking about the plague in the capital cities (OG/SW) during the event second Scourge Invasion (also shown in The Comic) - if that one may have happened after the fall of the Scarlet Enclave (DK starting quest-line) because of that sentence.--Mordecay (talk) 20:58, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Mythos section

Shouldn't it be split? "Mythos" implies it being a false/fantasy idea often beheld of by individual cultures. And most of the things listed under the "mythos" section is well... not false, nor are they fantasies. WarGodZajru (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The term comes from the History of Warcraft series of blurbs.--SWM2448 01:17, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

It's also the first chapter of Chronicle Volume 1. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Welp, that sucks.

Someone needs a lesson in English.... ;_; WarGodZajru (talk) 01:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Stormwind Falls

Chronicle 2, pg. 129-138, places the full destruction of Stormwind in the year 3. This contradicts many other sources but is the most recent date we've received and since the new lore trumps the old, how should we proceed and cleaning that section up? -Cannibeans (talk) 08:56, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Any ideas? -Cannibeans (talk) 15:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

The way the book phrases it, the full destruction of Stormwind happens in the end of year 3, when before sources placed it during year 4. Doesn't make much of a difference... Besides the First War, Stormwind (kingdom), Stormwind City, Anduin Lothar, Karazhan, Llane Wrynn I, Garona Halforcen, Medivh, Khadgar pages, what would need an urgent update? Xporc (talk) 15:58, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

UVG and Copeland all said SW fell in Year 5. If the intent of this page is to be the most correct timeline we have, why wouldn't we update it to reflect all the page's events in years 4 and 5 to be in year 3 instead? -Cannibeans (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Legion & WotLK

So it is generally accepted that Legion is Year 32 based on the Magni comic's four years reference.   [10-45] A Pact of Necessity says that 4 years passed since Frostmourne was destroyed. So do we put LK's death to year 28 as well? Basically, it would put the finale of WotLK from year 27 to 28, similarly as the Cataclysm finale is in Year 29 and not just 28 as the rest of Cata. It would retcon UVG which says that LK's defeat was in 27, tho. --Mordecay (talk) 23:06, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Chronicles 3 will fix it :D Xporc (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Oh, right! It is bound to have years written like the second Chronicle had. --Mordecay (talk) 23:19, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Darkspear exile

Yes, they remember Mai'Zoth, but they could move out of Stranglethorn at any point during or after the First War (if he's an original rare two-headed ogre), and more speculatively even after the Second War, if the ogre was ogre-mage created by Gul'dan. --Mordecay (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Hm, not sure if a "0-9 (approx.)" would look good to place somewhere, but it would be the most "accurate" way to do it due to the limited information. So, no chance an ogre would be there before year 0 and it would've taken probably a couple of years for a created one to have made their way down from Quel'Thalas to STV. –WarGodZajru (talk) 21:04, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Deadwind Pass history/Sataiel/Ulthalesh

Would it be relevant to add the story of Sataiel, how she killed all the troll inhabitants of Deadwind Pass along with all animals and plants, drained their energy and made the pass how it is today, and then got killed by Magna Scavell? I guess finding an approximate date would be tough since we don't know when Scavell ascended to the Guardian of Tirisfal position though.--KIROCHI) 16:36, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

sure Xporc (talk) 08:12, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Name

How about moving Timeline to Timeline (disambiguation) and this page to just Timeline, since it's entirely made up of official information? Xporc (talk) 13:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

:ok_hand: --Ryon21 (talk) 13:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Aye since the page's intro explains what the page is, making "(unofficial)" a bit redundant. -- Mordecay (talk) 14:02, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Fine by me! PeterWind (talk) 14:45, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

This is the closest thing the Warcraft universe has to a consistent timeline, and it is one of our most valued treasures in terms of accuracy and usefulness. It is more precise than Chronicles even.--KIROCHI) 16:28, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Agreed.

The term "unofficial" hurts the credibility of this article and has led many people to believe this page was fan-made, as repeatedly seen on various forums or website, when this is a compilation of official sources.

Other Wowpedia articles don't have the term "unofficial" in their title, we tend to disambig by source instead (such as Timeline (Ultimate Visual Guide)). -- — MyMindWontQuiet 11:58, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

So, anyone against moving these pages? Thankfully there seems not to be many links, so it shouldn't be a problem. --Ryon21 (talk) 13:21, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Move done. Some of the links still need a fix I think. --Ryon21 (talk) 01:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

eldre'thalas

Why is it not displayed at year 25 that the horde raided it? It's so fucking annoying —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bahhbs (talk · contr).

Because too much things to update and not enough editors, yo Xporc (talk) 13:02, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

If it's so annoying update it yourself. --Ryon21 (talk) 14:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

original Orcs and Humans timeline

I remember seeing somewhere the claim that the portal had originally been opened ~20 years prior to the start of the 1st game (allowing the at-first-unspecified orc/human parents of Garona to meet and have her be mature during the game) but then later the timeline got changed.

Here is what I could find from Warcraft:_Orcs_&_Humans_manual

• Garona "Many years passed as the Warlocks sought to unlock the mysteries of this tiny rift."
• Garona "It has been some fifteen years since this costly decision altered the course of our destiny."
• 577 Medivh returns to mess with the Age of Ascension ceremony of Llane, then over next 6 years there's crop failures
• 583 Stormwind keep attacked by "hideous creatures"
• 584 surviving creatures identify selves as orcs to Llane, who is 20 years old (so AOA must be 13 years)
• 593 "nearly ten years of skirmishes"

If Garona is saying 15 yet it's less than 10, I'm thinking she might be counting from 577-593 (~14) because prior to the actual decade of skirmishes was the "many years" warlocks dealt with the "tiny rift" where worlds were connected (Draenor's blight infects Azeroth environment) but it wasn't large enough for large beings to get through.

Does anyone know where which source later changed it to merely a months-gap? Like the IRL timeline of when the timeline was changed. Tycio (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Definitely at least Warcraft 3. Possibly later. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

The second part of this page has year 583 for Medivh opening the Dark Portal as well as the beginning of the First War, which should be based on Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness manual. --Morderi (talk) 21:12, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

15 - 23 After the Dark Portal

Reading through Chronicles and other media for dates from 15 ADP - 23 ADP is a headache. I think the Timeline is a little off in that time period, though it's kinda confusing.

• 15 ADP is Kel'thuzad and the forming of the scourge. [Chronicle 3 specifically puts this one at 15] (timeline lists 16-17).
• Thrall's New Horde and the Liberation is a big confusing one, currently in as 16-17. Chronicles place all these sometime after Kel'thuzad, but before 18 ADP... But we also see that the continued liberation would continue through up to year 20, as seen in Reign of Chaos when they finally left for Kalimdor. The other timelines (UVG, 04 and 07 official site) all put these events at 18 ADP. Maybe we should list them as 15-18
  • Of Blood and Honor is also listed in the 04 and 07 timelines, as 19 ADP, which can easily be reasoned with the continuing liberation. currently thrown in with the 16-17 ADP
• The Frozen Throne is also a big one. Chronicles doesn't really give a clear answer, putting it somewhere between 21 ADP and 25 ADP. It's currently listed at 22 ADP, citing UVG. The other timelines (04, 07, official strat, TBC, pretty much all of the disambig timelines) all say 21 ADP. When reading the UVG, it specifically says The Rise of the Lich King, describing only the events of the 3rd (scourge) of TFT's campaigns, nothing of the NE or BE campaigns before it. Would it make more sense to split TFT in half, the NE and BE campaigns sticking to the 21 ADP events as per all other timelines, and then the Legacy of the Damned campaign onward marking 22 ADP? I do think the UVG is the newest of the sources though, it's just odd that it only lists that part in the timeline. (Both the original and updated UVG are the same in this regard)

-- XreaperDK (talk) 07:31, 21 August 2022 (UTC)