Are you deliberately trying to do edits that are directly in conflict with mine? If you're going to include reputation and/or experience to a quest, make it under a "Gains" section. It's not under "Rewards". --g0urra[T҂C] 21:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Look again. Don't fault me with every instance you disagree with. Only most of them. :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Apparently your memory only reaches back only the last hour or so, so perhaps I'll just leave it at there. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see one user thinks his edits are supreme over others and uses personal attacks. --Raisky (talk) 01:52, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Gourra is, in general, not a bad editor. He and simply have quite similar areas of interest, and differing opinions and preferences. And to be honest, you have to have some ego involved, the thought that "I can do better than that", to edit at all. In the same way I defend my opinions, he defends his. I have enough cheek to go around. :) ... on the issue of number of edits: they're not all alike. Some can easily be bot-driven, some are more difficult. And the most terrible thing is to abandon a global change half-completed. Thanks for the thought, nonetheless. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:44, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Apparently you feel I learn nothing. The links above do represent a change. The first also represents you disrespecting the very 'gains' section you call for. The second, what I feel is an unfair accusation. Should I have left the stub template there until a gains section had been produced? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:55, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
What are quest gains? I only get rewards. ;-) --Gengar orange 22x22.pngBeware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:00 PM PST 4 Apr 2009

Please use onlyinclude and not noinclude when add tooltips please

Using <onlyinclude>{{tooltip...}}</onlyinclude> both saves time and reduces mistakes when doing future editing. That way you only need 2 <onlyinclude>s over 4 <noinclude>s when putting stuff before and after the tooltip. --Gengar orange 22x22.pngBeware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:00 PM PST 4 Apr 2009

Nevermind, I'm looking at older stuff you created. Keep up the good work. --Gengar orange 22x22.pngBeware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:05 PM PST 4 Apr 2009

Eng waist tinkers

According to a comment on wowhead, spynoculars and EMP generators do not stack with each other. Either one does stack with the belt buckle. I will still try to confirm when I have a chance, and note it somewhere appropriate. -- Harveydrone 20:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm guessing, then, that the engineering things occupy the 'permanent enchantment' slot, and EBB is a new location sorta thing. I'd guess Socket Gloves also stacks. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Correct, the engineering "enchants" use the same permanent slot... which is why many engineers got upset that they had to choose between their personal stuff and having enchants that actually benefit them for raids... like all the other profession have. In 3.1 bliz is buffing the engineering enchants with stats for items that can be enchanted, like the cloak... um... I'll have to relook at the list, I know cloak can't be the only one they're buffing... Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 20:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
The cloak enchant is the single most valuable enchant I've got with me. It is worth carrying around an extra cloak just for the enchant. Particularly if you go anywhere near Wintergrasp... Stats on it would be nice, though. I guess I'm just too resigned: If it is useful and in engineering, it'll get nerfed. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Confirming the two waist tinkers do not stack. I have a belt with the belt buckle and spynoculars; I tried to "tinker" the EMP generator and got "Do you want to replace spynoculars?" (I said no.) By the way, what I read was the cloak overlay will in 3.1 also have an agility buff, which my hunter likes. PS Eirik, you owe me like 8g for training a recipe I will probably never use. -- Harveydrone 16:17, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Look me up on Chromaggus any time! Handing you the 8g would be worth it. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Where did this image come from?

Well, you asked. It is this thing from A [52] Signal for Pickup.--SWM2448 21:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I did indeed. Thanks. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

RE: The Book of Runes

I haven't commented or corrected it yet because I'm busy wiping in Ulduar. I'll correct it when I'm done here. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You are a being of many talents. I am entirely unable to wiki-edit during even casual play sessions, barring extrordinary circumstances. Please succeed at least once in Ulduar for me... Or if not for me, then for yourself! :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:26, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Well we wiped horribly due to bugged bosses... Either way, use {{for}} at the top to make it likes "For the Horde quest, see The Book of Runes (Horde)", by {{for|the Horde quest|The Book of Runes (Horde)}}. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, sure, that's fine with me. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Basic Training

You added a note to this quest that the chain continues with the discovery of the crystal, but that's not true. I looted the crystal way back on the start of Coldarra when I got aggro from a random mob that I didnt even had a quest for. So I did the ENTIRE Keristrazsa chain in parallel with the Basic Training one. Qurai (talk) 13:20, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Re:Northrend Gems

I personally thought the older way of doing it was much better. Northrend gems table just makes me want to puke, but I'm a bit afraid of edit wars if I just trash it (which I think needs to be done). I'm somewhat scared, now that I haven't been to these pages in a while, to see that this aweful table structure has multipled into multiple pages.

If I had a good idea, I would have definitely changed them already. But even if I had a good one, I have a feeling it would be many hours of work to rework, and edit lots of page links. I'm just not sure if I have the will. -Howbizr (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

This would be my thought. If you're a hardcore jeweler (like myself), go back to the drawing board and think "What would like I like to know as a newbie, as a powerleveler, or as a completionist (a hardcore"). Write that article in seclusion. Then go back to wowwiki, read all the plethora of articles and see if they offer anything you could include in your precise version. Then purge for the love of god Purge that maddness, and replace with clean, holy article goodness. Or you could use a sandbox and bring it up on the pump. Grin.png. -Howbizr (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I still think the pages need changed, but I just don't have the will to change them. One more audience - people looking for a gem.
Something to keep in mind by grouping by color. Sometimes people say "I have a yellow gem, I wonder what I could do with this." But much more often the question is "I want a tank gem for a yellow slot." I'm afraid that while grouping by color seems logical, it has limited value. The same thing goes for the jeweler - you get the same number of points for different colored cuts, so you really don't care what all the yellow cuts are. You just care that you have some that a) make money or b) are useful to you and your guild.
Again... a more organized fashion to figure out "Okay I'm at this skill level, and I have these reputations at revered, what else do I need to do to get the rest of the patterns. How many patterns are world drops?" etc... -Howbizr (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Reply to <stat> gem pages... "holy..." It's worse than I could have imagined, batman! A plague has spread before our eyes! -Howbizr (talk) 21:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
A category would be good for advanced users. But I'd rather see article cross linking. Like a table or something that linked to other articles. I don't know... Do what you like. The whole thing frustrates me (no sh*t Sherlock, lol). -Howbizr (talk) 21:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I begrudingly have used gems by color, but I've just gone to wowhead because it takes so long to answer any of these questions on wowwiki. I'm not saying the information isn't there, I'm saying the access to the information is cumbersome at best. And jewelcrafting recipes, template or not, is not a very useful page. Almost no one needs that kind of format. -Howbizr (talk) 21:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Borean Tundra quests

Hi Eirik,

Can you help me with this page? The problem I'm facing is that I want to add the connecting quests from one quest hub to another, so when viewing the page you know what hubs to do in what order.

For Howling Fjord the Quests page is awesome, thanks in part to Blizz's quest design team, since all areas connect to eachother and just following the quests brings you everywhere.

Unfortunately it's not that easy in Borean Tundra; e.g. it took me a while to figure out there's not a single quest sending you to Coldrock Quarry and you really need to stumble there yourself.

Can you help me how to specify the connecting quests from one hub to another in a decent way?

Thanks! -- Qurai (talk) 12:05, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

RE: Bashal'Aran quest

The first quest with the same name should end with "(1)", and the name of the quest (in this example "Bashal'aran") would be a redirect to the first one, or a disambiguation of the different types. --g0urra[T҂C] 22:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: container objects

If the other similar articles aren't with the category, then remove it. And if you can't see the difference between a container item and a container object, I'm not sure what to tell you. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Point out to me where "the newbs" has been incorrectly adding "container items" instead of "container objects" and vice versa. --g0urra[T҂C] 21:15, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Point me to the newbs that have looked up containers on the wiki and encountered the category 'Container objects' instead of 'container items', and been confused thereby. There are a lot more readers than editors to this wiki, remember. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: The Collector

Are you serious? Does that matter to you? --g0urra[T҂C] 19:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Because quest starting items never, if ever, changes item quality - using loot instead of item does not make a difference. --g0urra[T҂C] 20:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Then why use an item quality link at all, why not a standard link? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


Ya, sorry about that. I'm not used to using "Move", so I kinda created/redirected on instinct <.<

And you're welcome. Happy to help out the wiki. IconSmall Wolvar.gifBig, furry, and insane (Have a conversation with the homocidal furry!) (Come and stalk me! ...No, wait, please don't.) 21:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


This is just a clarification about what Pcj said, if you needed it. Blizz.gif Bornakk is a "blue poster" from Blizzard, a forum admin. MMO Champion quotes "the blues" all the time. So Bornakk isn't (that I'm aware of) posting on MMO Champion directly, but MMO is quoting him and the other blues often. Hopefully that helps. -Howbizr (talk) 20:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

See also. This is why I'm not using forum links - they disappear after a few months but they stay on these forum aggregators presumably for a much longer period of time.. I realize also that {{bluepost|<link>}} has |link, but I like all the extra info you get with {{ref web}} - last access date, poster name, date, etc. If you're lazy, by all means use {{bluepost}} to just get your editing done faster. I wouldn't chastisize anyone for being less verbose than a woman! (Grin.png) -Howbizr (talk) 20:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe update the {{ref web}} and/or {{bluepost}} documentation, if you don't mind? Smiley.gif -Howbizr (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

5000 club

Grats and /cry! I'm getting behind. -Howbizr (talk) 20:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

LOL.. hadn't even noticed... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
/slap Put a watch on your user page, silly. Else I might have to defame it while you're not paying attention. -Howbizr (talk) 20:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 :) Really, though, I count your 300 template edits more heavily than the mere edit count suggests. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Aww. Ya getting {{achievementlong}} and {{achievementbox}} where I wanted them to be was a long process. {{User exalted}} has also been fun. -Howbizr (talk) 22:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

You should join the Watchdogs!

You've basically been doing what they do already. I can give you Patrollers rights, if Kirkburn doesn't add you to the team right away. Once you're a patroller, your new pages will be assumed to be patrolled. --Gengar orange 22x22.pngBeware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:25 PM PST 28 May 2009

What I've been doing recently has largely been: "draining my pool of quest screenshots"; and sprucing up any items, objects, or links I run across in the process. ... including my own. You'll note me going back to patch up categories, links, etc. The Watchdogs seems to be "watching for vandalism" by checking the recent changes. While I do some of that, much of what I've been doing has been patrolling my watchlist. ... Which is fairly extensive, I admit. :) I'd be happy to do the occasional vandal/recent change patrol as well. I might need training on the 'patrolled' power, and 'rollback' looks scary enough that I'm not tempted to use it other than for vandalism. Is there an application procedure I should follow or something? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Okay I guess I was thinking of the second part: "Watching the new pages list, and commenting on the page's talk page, giving the author insight into how the page may be improved." Also, it doesn't mean you always have to be leaving comments on talk pages, but can also mean you add tags to things. To join you would add a request to WoWWiki:Watchdogs/Join. It does look like Kirkburn may not have looked at the requests in a while, thoug, so you might want to bump his talk page. --Gengar orange 22x22.pngBeware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:48 PM PST 28 May 2009

Speaking of templates...

Do you think these might be useful? I could make you some template(s) if you think you need them in quest / npc / lore pages.

  • {{NPC emote}} for emotes done by NPCs
  • {{NPC yell}} NPC yells:
  • {{NPC say}} NPC says:
  • {{NPC whisper}} NPC whispers:

Or perhaps it could be concatenated:

  • {{NPC talk|<emote>}}, {{NPC talk|<yell>}}, {{NPC talk|<say>}}, {{NPC talk|<whisper>}}

Side note, The <font> tag is deprecated in the latest versions of HTML (HTML 4 and XHTML). The <font> Tag Should NOT be Used -Howbizr (talk) 22:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

"... but it's so convenient!" The first would not work as-is, as it wouldn't color the text that follows. The second form ... would need another parameter. Why not simply {{Whisper|<whisper text>}}, {{Say|<said text>}} etc? Are they taken? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Among other things, it allows a uniform change of hue, should folks want. Conceivably, even driven by preferences or something. Oh, and Yell, Whisper, etc, could use a base {{NPCtalk|<color>|<text>}} or something. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I made a test here, and I was thinking of making an example such as {{Text}}, but I haven't made it to reality. --g0urra[T҂C] 23:15, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh Gourra you make me laugh. Applying CSS to a font tag. I hope you don't mind that I changed your sandbox with some ideas. I can't get it to work, but I'd like to add a parameter to specify "random" color, too. You can probably see what I was getting at with the edit I undid. -Howbizr (talk) 00:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
And Eirik, is <span style="color:red"> that much harder than <font color="red">? Grin.png -Howbizr (talk) 00:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Hey cut me some slack. I did that well over a year ago. Tongueout.gif --g0urra[T҂C] 01:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Still lol. -Howbizr (talk) 01:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Yay there we go. Got the random color to work. -Howbizr (talk) 01:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually, Howbizr, there was some occasion I tried a span, and it failed. I have no idea what that occasion was, but it colored me for life. You have a new template for me to use? :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
If a similar occasion happens again, let me know and "we'll work through it" Tongueout.gif. I promoted {{Text}} to the mainspace, so have at it. -Howbizr (talk) 13:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: Text templates

Bah, one is created, one that only takes one namespace, why to create 5-6 more templates, just to remove 5 characters ("text|")?

IconSmall Hamuul.gif Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 19:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Enter it in 30 times on a single page, and get back to me... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:52, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
You know you can get Firefox to automatically open an external editor right? From your editor (try Notepad++ or UltraEdit), you can do find/replace, as well as a multitude of other editing features.
Let's say for example you have this:
* content
* content
* content
Then find replace for "* " with "*{{Text|say|" is really no harder than replacing for "*{{Say|". Use the "end" key on your keyboard to help you quickly add those "}}" in. Again, not to be condescending, but in case you didn't know, "Ctrl+C" and "Ctrl+V" are keyboard shortcuts for "copy" and "paste" - also helps tremedously to edit faster. Replace "Ctrl" with the Apple key if you're not on Windows/Linux. One more tip, from the wiki preferences, you can adjust the size of the edit box to match your resolution perfectly.
OK I have to run to yoga! Be back tomorrow, unless we fail at raiding again tonight. /chomp‎ Howbizr(t·c) 6:01 PM, 3 Jun 2009 (EDT)


*poke* /chomp‎ Howbizr(t·c) 7:31 PM, 9 Jun 2009 (EDT)

What, just because I'm finding Things To Do all the time? :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Kinda sorta maybe. /chomp‎ Howbizr(t·c) 9:30 AM, 11 Jun 2009 (EDT)