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Welcome v.2

Welcome to Wowpedia!

Hello, Morderi, and welcome to Wowpedia, the Warcraft wiki! Thank you for your contributions, and we heartily encourage you to continue contributing!

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wowpedian! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~) as this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, or need help, just ask on the relevant talk page, or visit the site forums. Again, welcome! --SWM2448 01:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome!!! --Ryon21 (talk) 09:08, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! At least this time I didn't have to ask for one :P --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 09:56, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


All the new pages you're adding (and thanks for that!) appear to be pretty complete. Do you mind removing the stub tag from your template for those? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

The quest ones? Ah, I see now, ok. Although I wonder if those supply quests are required to have a profession learned, or are just available without any requirements? Do you know? --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 20:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
I THINK - but I'm not 100% positive - that all of the gathering quests can be done by any character, but crafting quests require the profession. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

"Rename me" and similar

Do we really need everything from the database on the wiki? Quests like N [110 - 120] RENAME ME serve no purpose other than cluttering search. They were never intended to go live, players have never seen and will never see them, and outside of a database record, barely exist at all. We're not a database, we're a wiki. --Kaydeethree (talk) 21:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

There are lots of stuff from databases already on the wiki in the Removed from beta/alpha categories. Think, it's nice to see some development directions that the texts speak about, and are also included on other pages as trivia. Although the names are indeed silly, some of these entries don't exist on live versions of databases, so, imo, the texts should be transcribed somewhere. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 21:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I don't think we should be adding empty/tracking quests that consist purely of a quest name, but if there's some substance to them as with these, I don't mind. PeterWind (talk) 23:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
The only reason we're aware of these quests at all is because we're looking at database sites. If Wowhead wasn't able to pull unavailable-to-players quests, that are still visible because they didn't get properly deleted, would it actually change anything regarding the lore? --Kaydeethree (talk) 23:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, generally speaking I don't think "removed from testing" stuff has too much impact on the lore. I just think it's neat. PeterWind (talk) 01:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Warcraft 3

Excuse me, may I know who are you? You aren't an admin, are you? It's about reverting tmmy edits.--Oxlord (talk) 19:13, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not an admin, but xporc is, and he changed it the first time in this edit. Later, this edit from another admin happened, who also explained the reasoning in the summary. Anyway, the last time I kept the "paladin" there and simply added "(hydromancer)" to reflect the fact that while his class is presented as paladin, the abilities are not paladin ones, but they resemble what might be considered a hydromancer. Wouldn't you say that having "Paladin (hydromancer)" would be a good compromise to resolve the edit warring? --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 19:35, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

"File:" in galleries

In my opinion, there is little point in removing "File:" prefixes from galleries since they're just going to get automatically re-added as soon as someone makes a visual edit (which is bound to happen sooner or later on popular articles). Also, this part on MediaWiki makes a good point:

The File: prefix can be omitted. However, it is helpful to include it as an aid for quickly locating image specifiers in the wikitext (for example, when cleaning up page layout).

Since it makes absolutely no difference in how the page looks on the user end, I've personally stopped removing the prefix since it's just extra work for no gain. If anything, removing it can be slightly detrimental to editing, for the reason cited above. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 21:39, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough, I can take it out of my editing process. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 08:40, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Yesterday, I've added this note to Wowpedia:Image guidelines so others can hopefully follow through. If Visual Editor didn't cause this issue, I'd be more inclined to omitting the prefixes out to be honest but for now with some users using VE, it is just more of an hassle trying to clean those up when they happen. — SurafbrovWowpedia's wiki representative T / C 20:53, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Non-visible space changes and category reordering edits

Heya. If your edits solely consist of wikitext space changes that have no effect on the resulting display and category reordering, please consider not making them. I generally try to put manually-placed categories in alphabetic order so they're easier to skim through. Is there a reason you're using the order you are? Thanks. --Kaydeethree (talk) 17:06, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey, for consistency of course. As glanced on any other NPC/mob page, the order isn't alphabetical but the race category is always first then, class or service (vendors/flight master), then the faction category, then the zone category. That's how I have been placing it for over a decade now. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 17:34, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Kirin Tor

Heya, I would have liked to have your opinion for the Kirin tor page, I thought of doing like on the other organization pages, and transform the "Named" members part into a "Notable members" part with a redirection to a paged name List of Kirin tor mages (to avoid throwing away all the work done), because it really takes up a lot of space, and it doesn't is not necessary very useful. What do you think of this? WardsJames (talk) 13:33, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey, yea the list is huge, so "Notable members" sound good. Since there are those "List of X paladins" pages, so one for Kirin Tor mages should be fine, imo. Go for it! :D --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 13:46, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
I'll take care of it right away!WardsJames (talk) 13:51, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

An other question, it's about the races in the Kirin tor, I found Human, High elf, Blood elf, Highborne, Night elf, Gnome, Dwarf, Half-elf, Draenei, and Worgen NPCs, it's not a problem. But what about the Orc, Troll, Pandaren, Forsaken, Goblin ? Do you know something about this ? Edit: I mean yes, i know that they are present in the Tirisgarde, but it's an other organization affiliated with the Kirin tor, and not the Kirin Tor itself. Such as the Sunwalkers and Blood Knights that were in the Silver Hand, but not affiliated with the Church of the Holy Light for example. WardsJames (talk) 17:54, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Maybe these could help:
Jungle trolls
Looking at it, some of them are just vendors and trainers or "regular citizens" tagged with the faction in the game. Also, for the Forsaken, it appears they are just former members (as in they were in the Kirin Tor when they were alive), so I think they shouldn't be listed as current members... Although there's Archmage Pratt so dunno. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 18:17, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
What do we do in this case? This is the first time that I come across a case like this. For Archmage Prattell... well, i look his page, he was an archmage of the kirin tor, but not anymore. WardsJames (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
So you mean like to differentiate between the races that are Kirin Tor mages and races that are Kirin Tor non-mages?
If so, I guess, one solution could be to include the mage races in the infobox and something like "Other races" which would be a link to a new section on the Kirin Tor page. This section would explain that the in-game faction is applied to non-mages of certain races (maybe even directly explain the technical side of it that certain NPCs are "just" vendors or generic citizens who would better fall into "Dalaran (kingdom)" instead of Kirin Tor and that there are visitors who, lorewise, are not members of the Kirin Tor despite the in-game faction), and it would list those races and maybe even the specific NPCs. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 19:05, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Indeed, I agree. In my opinion, there is a big difference between the agents of the Kirin tor and the civilians who bear the faction title but who have nothing to do with the activities of the latter. WardsJames (talk) 19:25, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, Kirin Tor is defined pretty well in sources, so pointing out the matter of civilians being tagged should be informative, imo. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 19:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
I agree, they have the Kirin Tor tag for the gameplay with players from both faction, but inlore they are affiliated with the nation of dalaran and not the kirin tor itself as citizens and merchants. (Edit) I wonder, do we really have to create a part to specify the subjects of visitors and merchants? Or putting that in the notes section might be enough?WardsJames (talk) 19:45, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
The Notes section could be fine too. The idea of the new section was for the link in the infobox, inspired by how Knights of the Silver Hand currently displays and navigates the leaders in the infobox/page. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 20:30, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Oh ! I see, understood. Now, should i remove the races and explain in the notes section? Or do you want to do it, to be sure there is no problems?
You can. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 20:45, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Forgot to mention it earlier, but Kirin Tor Invoker / Kirin Tor Invokers appear as orcs and jungle trolls. For the undead, I intersected the wrong category, so there's Intersection:Undead_characters::Kirin_Tor. Of them Old Fillmaff seems to be interesting. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 11:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Heya, I did not know that the invokers also have orcs and trolls, I am surprised :o But since this is only one type of npc, which is also optional in the order hall, should we mention these races on the Kirin Tor page? I mean, I already had the case for the Stormwind army's page where i find a gnome and a worgen, but it was judged good by the other staff to not put their race, because they were not representative on the scale of the army with a single in-game appearance. For Old Fillmaff, it's true that he's interesting, but as he is in the tirisgarde that unites the mages of azeroth, is he mentioned as being or having been from the Kirin tor? This is not to bother, it is that with our research to update the Kirin tor page, we saw that all mages in dalaran are not necessarily from Kirin tor, and even less in the Tirisgarde with Magisters and the others. WardsJames (talk) 15:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree, since this is the only appearance of orcs and jungle trolls, they don't need to be included in the infobox list of races. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 15:42, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Understood, now for Old Fillmaff, i was wrong, there is effectively  [Lost Research Notes], where he is mentioned as a member of the Kirin Tor. However, he is not a forsaken, as he came back to dalaran after w3, like nothing happen, and it seems he doesn't know he is dead (funniest sh** i ever seen), same for the other undead still affiliated with the Kirin tor. Should we add their race? If so, as Forsaken or Undead? WardsJames (talk) 15:49, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
Personally, I don't mind either way - include or exclude them from the listing. At first, I was gonna say "Undead", but looking at Dalaran it has "Forsaken", so probably that. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 16:06, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Wolf's Offensive/Warchief's Order

heya, i have a question--do you remember if A [120] The Wolf's Offensive and H [120] The Warchief's Order were like, for sure confirmed re-added? i can't find any way to get The Wolf's Offensive, and i'm able to pick up B [120] Send the Fleet without it. just want to be sure before i go changing anything. thanks, Eithris (talk) 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Doublecking my wow chat log, I found:
12/1 22:43:14.394 Quest accepted: The Warchief's Order
12/1 22:43:15.346 Nathanos Blightcaller says: Champion, the Dark Lady summons you. The time has come to set her plan into motion.
12/1 22:43:22.087 Nathanos Blightcaller says: Our warships are ready to embark. The key to victory over the Alliance is within our grasp.
12/1 22:43:30.188 Nathanos Blightcaller says: Meet me in Zuldazar, aboard the Banshee's Wail. What we do next... we do for the Horde.
The date, December 1, corresponds with this edit. I did it on an alt, and the preceding quest was N [50] Infusing the Heart.
However, I didn't do A [120] The Wolf's Offensive, and I think I just based it on this revision. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 20:16, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
hmmm. so either i'm missing something, or for some reason only the horde one got readded. :thinking: okey dokey then, ty! Eithris (talk) 01:51, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Druid Trial page moves

What's the reason for moving the Alliance and Horde pages into each others' spaces? As near as I can tell, they're all showing the proper versions. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:56, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The quest N Druid [10] Great Bear Spirit has both versions in it, as they have identical texts. So I'm thinking that the same could be applied for the Trial pages. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I missed that it said "Merge" and not "Move." Well, if everything is identical except for having different IDs, I see no reason not to merge them. Go ahead and update and move one, and I can delete the other. I'll kill the redirects in the meantime to make way. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

After a pause and giving a second thought... N Druid [16] Trial of the Lake is identical in text and action the players do so that's looking good, but the N Druid [16] Trial of the Sea Lion quest, although it has identical objectives, description, progress, and completion, the NPCs required to speak to have different text depending on faction, and Alliance go to Westfall and Darkshore while Horde go to Silverpine Forest and the Barrens (to loot the same thing). Does the page look ok to you or would it be better if it was split back to Alliance and Horde pages? --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 08:28, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Dalaran NPCs affiliations

Hello Morderi, you could see it since yesterday, I take care of making updates on the affiliations and categories of the Kirin Tor NPCs. I would need your advice regarding civilian Dalaran NPCs, indeed they are affiliated with Kirin Tor for reputation gameplay reasons since Wotlk, but inlore they are simply civilians of the kingdom of dalaran, and not official members of the Kirin Tor. It bothers me to leave the Kirin Tor affiliation to them, as it can be confusing, but it also bothers me to just take it out like that, and I'm not sure other editors agree, what should I do ? WardsJames (talk) 11:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

???? This is a World of Warcraft encyclopedia, World of Warcraft content shouldn't be ignored just for the sake of neatness. Xporc (talk) 11:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Relax Xporc, I know that this is an encyclopedia and that the information of the game should not be neglected or ignored, that was precisely my question to Morderi, I wished to not withdraw that in favor of the lore because the information of the game are important, on the other hand I found it annoying because it could confuse on the fact that apple sellers could be members of an organization of the greatest mages of Azeroth. You see what i mean x) Now, Morderi has given me a well-constructed answer, instead of just raising shields to my question, and I agree with his reasoning, so I won't touch anything. WardsJames (talk) 11:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Heya, since they are tagged like that in the game, I'd say keep the faction there. With the matter explained in the Notes section, hopefully it is sufficient. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 11:43, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
I understand the reasoning, thanks for answering me, I was rather bored about it, but indeed it is better to leave it like that, and I hope that the information in the Notes section will be sufficient, like you said! WardsJames (talk) 11:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Kings' Rest mobs

Hey Morderi, mobs in Kings' Rest (and other Heroic-only dungeons) should use bfa-max for their level, since Heroics do not scale and are always max level for their expansion. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok. --HordeRace bloodelf male.jpg Mordecay (talk) 16:44, 30 July 2021 (UTC)