Hi Reign... did you want to reclaim ReignG? Or would you rather have this account instead? Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 04:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Reign's good. Reign (talk) 00:29, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


I don't care that he's never been wrong before; he's not an official source. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

He is as much of a source as anyone on MMO-Champ or WoWhead, Curll has been to Blizzard previews as a member of the press. If Curll cannot be trusted, than neither can anyone from WoWhead or MMOC. Furthermore, Omacron (who Curll told about it and then he told us) has been recognized by Metzen and recently landed a job at CDev as an intern. If it was not reliable, then neither of them would have let it out into the open. Reign (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
It's not an issue of trust, but the fact that we don't use fansites as sources of lore. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:11, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Precisely. Accurate and knowledgeable though he may be, he's not a primary source. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:23, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
In that case, take down everything about MoP that Blizzard themselves have not stated. There goes all the Reign (talk) 23:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Everything about MoP has been taken from the game which is Blizzard. Please stop making such a big deal over this. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 23:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Blizzard is a primary source. The game is a primary source. Interviews and news articles are primary sources. One guy on a fansite, no matter how well-connected, is not a primary source. This is the same reason why we don't use Insane Guy of Doom's conversation with Metzen as a citation for anything. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I would like to remove this until a source is given. I don't like to see {{fact}} in articles
IconSmall Hamuul.gif Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 13:48, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Tides of War


I would like to see where did you found the infos on Tides of War. Can you give a link?

IconSmall Hamuul.gif Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 07:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Posted on Rhonin's page. Reign (talk) 08:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Winged arakkoa statue picture

Heya. Where'd you find the picture of the winged arakkoa statue? If it was from a sandbox we're going to have to (temporarily) delete it until non-Blizz employees can actually log in to the WoD realms. This is on the basis of the game's ToU and EULA and that mmo-c just had their Draenor zone screenshots all pulled. Thanks for your understanding. --k_d3 22:44, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

It was on MMO-Champ's picture dump. I assume they took it from the sandbox. ReignTG (talk) 00:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[
Well it would've need to be removed in the first place, reasoning can be found here at MMO-Champion from what kay said. — SurafbrovWowpedia administrator T / C 02:22, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

The Archidruids

Talk:Fandral Staghelm#Cause of Malfurion coma. --Mordecay (talk) 08:17, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Factional Icons

A discussion is taking place at Forum:Neutral Faction Icons about these icons, I'm attempting to get opinions from editors like yourself about this issue, please make your opinion known. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 19:12, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Xavius' allegiances:

Hello ReignTG, it seems you made the following contribution:

Considering it's conflicting heavily with information given by Blizzard so far, and you didn't source your citation, and it cannot be found anywhere else on the Internet when using Google, I feel that you should give us its context, so we can verify it and be sure we don't misinform our readers.

Also, I have a hunch that you got this from unreleased material, and if so, it shouldn't be disclosed like this.

Thank you very much in advance.--KIROCHI) 22:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

It's from the raid which was being tested on the beta mate. Xal'atath also talks about Xavius only pretending to leave the Old Gods.ReignTG (talk) 23:02, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
And I failed to acknowledge you were right, thank you ;)--KIROCHI) 21:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC)


Hi. Would you have a source for "Xe'ra and the Illidari speculate that Gul'dan struck a deal with Helya to get him there." ? Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ShellShockLive (talk · contr).

It's in the quest N [45R] Trial of Valor: The Once and Future Lord of Shadows, which I said in the summary when I added it. That's why the quest is a reference after it. ReignTG (talk) 20:51, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I guess I clicked the other one twice. -- ShellShockLive (talk) 21:44, 16 December 2016 (UTC)


Are you sure Hymdall is a vrykul?--SWM2448 19:00, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

He uses the same model as all of the other Stormforged vrykul instead of the watcher model, and nothing calls him a watcher. ReignTG (talk) 22:05, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
He uses the stormforged vrykul model as a base but lacks the runic filigree and looks more like stone. There are are a few things in Stormheim that use a silver version of his model, some of which seem to be animated statues, all of which are closer to being Odyn-sized.--SWM2448 02:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
The mere fact that he uses the vrykul model should be enough though. The only watcher that has ever not used the watcher model was Mimiron, and they even went out of their way to explain why that was in Chronicle. Unless something actually calls him a watcher there's no reason to think he is, because he doesn't use their model.ReignTG (talk) 13:04, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


Hi. What demonic features did Illidan have prior to his transformation into a demon ? You mentioned this here. As for the quote, this alone is no sufficient proof that he indeed has a demon inside of him, doesn't make much sense for a demon to have a demon inside them. Demon hunters get their demonic features from the demon(s) they have locked up inside them, Illidan has demonic features because he is a demon. -- ShellShockLive (talk) 17:19, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

The quote is proof, he literally says "Behold the power of the demon within." As in within him. As for a demon having a demon inside them, he wasn't a demon until he got the Skull of Gul'dan, but he was a DH before then, so he had to have a demon inside him. That's what makes you a demon hunter. As for demonic features, when he met Vandel during WC3 the book describes him as having them (no detail, just says "demonic features"). It's on page 98 of the hardcover. ReignTG (talk) 20:18, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
"he was a DH before then, so he had to have a demon inside him", no that's just Illidari demon hunters, better versions that Illidan created after having mastered his demonic transformation. You can be a demon hunter (as in, hunting demons) without having a demon yourself. As for the demonic features, that was the demonic tatoos. I'll settle for the quote, though I'm not personally convinced. -- ShellShockLive (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Illidan didn't create them after he mastered the demonic transformation though. He's been training demon hunters since the WotA, see Illysanna's backstory in her journal you can find in BRH. The tattoos are mentioned after it talks about his features. Legion and the novel have established that having a demon is a gigantic part of being a demon hunter instead of just some guy killing demons, and I don't know why the quote doesn't convince you because there's really no other way to interpret "the demon within." ReignTG (talk) 21:34, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Not true, Illysanna is not the work of Illidan, she became a DH by herself. As for the quote, it just seems like something you'd scream before going ham without any implications, like when bad guys yell "witness the power of a GOD!" even though they're no gods at all. -- ShellShockLive (talk) 22:01, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
As for the demonic features, it's pure english. If I say "I love Sarah's features. She has long hair, blue eyes, and a smooth skin" obviously the features are the long hair, the blue eyes and the smooth skin and thus I don't understand why you are trying to separate Illidan's features from his tattoos/visions. The tattoos/visions are the demonic features Vandel noticed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MyMindWontQuiet (talk · contr).
Just to jump in since this seems to be where most of the discussion is taking place, but according the inscription quest, N Inscription [10-45] Opposites Repel, the "demonic tattoos" are actually arcane runes. -- Alayea (talk / contrib) 22:43, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
First of all yeah, as Alayea said, the tattoos aren't even demonic, they're arcane. And how can they be demonic features when no demon species has them? The book also writes it as two separate ideas, presenting it along the lines of "He has demonic features. Here are his tattoos." Recall Altruis, and how he had no scales or horns or anything in BC, but Legion retconned them onto him. You're also ignoring the black claws in WoE which are absolutely not normal, no other nelf has those. ReignTG (talk) 22:47, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Well of Eternity - Illidan and Malfurion.jpg

Illidan and Malfurion in the Well of Eternity instance. Illidan has clawed toes, Malfurion doesn't. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 22:56, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Pre-Sundering Sentinels

Apparently, the Sentinels and hippogryph riders existed during the War of the Ancients.--SWM2448 21:41, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Chronicle says on page 114 they were created 600 years afterward by Tyrande. "She also forged a new fighting force: the Sentinels. Composed of devout and highly trained warrior women, this order dedicated itself to protecting the emergent night elf society." Latara's plaque would have to be wrong, since Chronicle can't be--the whole reason it was created was to be the new standard for lore going forward.ReignTG (talk) 22:18, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
I don't like that view. Blizzard will likely be contradicting it more and more going forward. The plaque can be wrong...--SWM2448 22:37, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Couldn't Latara go to Suramar and die there after the creation of the order? Coz Thaedris specifically associates the General with the WotA but not Latara. Thats purely speculation, tho. Or is it mentioned in the questline that the plaques are all results of the WotA? --Mordecay (talk) 23:31, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Yup, there's nothing saying she was a Sentinel during the WotA. - MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 04:08, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Her husband was sealed under the dome. If she was alive and outside of it, how would he know what she was up to? He may have just read her epitaph?--SWM2448 04:25, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure I follow but Tel'anor, where she was found and where the wife was buried, is situated outside Suramar City, so outside the dome. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 08:00, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
I know it doesn't make much sense but there's at least three plaques in Tel'anor related to the Sentinels. It is still possible that, even after the Sundering, some night elves traveled to Suramar to bury their loved ones there, but I find that rather unlikely ... Xporc (talk) 08:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah the problem is that it'd be hard for them to get there since the continent was literally sundered, and I don't see much reason why they'd go through all this trouble to get buried there in particular. Unless perhaps they were native of Suramar and wanted to be put to rest here. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 19:39, 13 March 2017 (UTC)


Hey, have you spotted Illidan with the Warglaives in 7.2? -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

When he rezzes at the Nighthold. Xporc (talk) 13:25, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
I meant after that yeah. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 14:15, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
Nighthold shows he clearly still has them, but he also has them in 7.2's key art.ReignTG (talk) 18:21, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I was wondering if there was another occurence that I had missed. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 19:46, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


Hi, yes, Blizzard have used the term "order leader", and also "leader of their order", and so on. And even if that were not the case, you are still the leader of your order, as such you should be described as such. There isn't a 1000 different ways to say that, and "class order leader" would be a bit too long.

As for rogues, it's more unclear than the others because the Uncrowned are led by a council of Shadows. Would you have an explicit source stating that he is the leader of the Uncrowned? Because as far as I remember he even pledges his blades to you, and you're made Shadowblade, whatever that means. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Show where they have used the exact term "order leader." Even if they have used it, it still isn't accurate. Rogues are not the Uncrowned leader, Ravenholdt is. Warriors are not the Valarjar leader, Odyn is. DKs are not the Ebon Blade leader, the Lich King is. Druids are not the Cenarion leader, Malfurion is. On the other hand adventurer is a term that applies to every player.ReignTG (talk) 15:47, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
You know what, I'm not going to get involved in another of these arguments you're always starting. Do whatever, it's just a word I don't care. ReignTG (talk) 16:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
This is just semantics, if order leader really irks you there's still order commander or order champion or whatever. I was being very polite here, it's a legit discussion.
"Thanks to your leadership, the <class> order has grown even mightier than I had dared hope" - Khadgar
"<name>, your cunning and leadership inspires awe in all of us!" - Rogue & Warrior campaigns
"<name> is strong! <name> is great leader!" - Death knight campaign
"I will inform the other order leaders of your discovery while you investigate the matter further!"
As for the rest that's just a nitpick, "leader" is more of a military title, that is made very clear in both the druid and warrior campaigns for example. You're basically the Supreme Commander of the Alliance but for your order. In all those cases, you are effectively leading the order, in the Broken Isles, against the Legion/Nightmare, for all classes. Everyone pledges themselves to you, and becomes your champion. You hand out all the missions, and orders. You direct the order and its resources. You improve the hall, you are behind the recruiting, and so on. All classes have these.
Now these are just nitpicks but at no point in the entire campaign is Ravenholdt called the leader of the Uncrowned. The closest thing to it would be when he says "We are the Shadows, the leaders of the Uncrowned". The Lich King is not the leader of the Ebon Blade at all, the Deathlord is. It's just that the Ebon Blade has allied with the Lich King. Darion himself says so. They accepted to serve as his hand, in exchange he doesn't unleash the Scourge upon the Broken Isles and gives them powerful weapons/resources. As for the druids I believe Malfurion is the leader but you've taken Greathoof's place as leader/archdruid of the Dreamgrove; and that dryad says what I said above about leading the armies & war effort against the Nightmare/Legion. Not sure how the Dreamweavers are related to that however. As for warriors, Odyn literally names you leader of the Valarjar armies, but it still belongs to him yes.
Going back to druids, it's implied that your title is temporary, at least for the war against the Legion and Nightmare, but that might be/likely is only for druids, and you'll give it back to Greathoof once this is over.-- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 17:03, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Baron Rivendare vs. Lord Rivendare

Hey there, while the objective of the quest is Lord Rivendare, the scenario has it Baron Rivendare ([1]). It makes sense to be Aurius instead of the Baron (Baron had Deathcharger whose saddle was taken by the Ebon Blade from Stratholme prior to the paladin mount quest, for example), but do you think we can really state that it is Aurius or should it be put as a speculation? --Mordecay (talk) 14:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Ah, it does say Baron in the scenario steps. Weird. Well I mean, I suppose it has to be Baron if that's what it says, right? Lord would have made more sense though, but I suppose them's the breaks. ReignTG (talk) 15:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
Dunno, probably. But they shouldn't have used "Lord" in the quest as it really confuses between the two characters. Uh, why and how would Baron's body be taken from Naxx above Northrend to Stratholme... this is a mess! :D --Mordecay (talk) 19:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)


Hey, what class do you play? On my mage I have Kirin Tor guys in the Vindicaar on Argus and I was wondering if they were class specific or not. -- MyMindWontQuiet 16:53, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

DH and druid. They Argus guys are class-specific, yeah I got Illidari and Cenarions there. ReignTG (talk) 17:52, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Sort of like Deliverance Point then, confirmation that the Legionfall are there. -- MyMindWontQuiet 20:56, 12 July 2017 (UTC)


According to wowhead, it's Quoram who says that, not Y'mera. Edit: Nevermind, saw the pic. I was certain that it was Y'mera as I said on Xporc's talk page, but then wowhead published their article /shrug. -- MyMindWontQuiet 08:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)


Hi, would you have a source for "the Elemental Lords are a direct biproduct of Azeroth's world-soul sucking up the Spirit" ?

V2 says that elemental spirits are basically everywhere (source), world-soul or not.

V1 says that they are created when Light shards infuse a planet with the spark of Life. Nothing to do with the presence of a world-soul. The only consequence that a world-soul has is making these already existing elemental spirits more erratic and violent (source).

The only thing said about the elemental lords themselves is that they were just the more powerful (source). Even Draenor has furies.

Elemental spirits are not a consequence of a world-soul sucking all the spirit. The only consequence of that is making these elementals more violent. -- MyMindWontQuiet 13:37, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I didn't say spirits are a consequence of it. I said the Elemental Lords are a consequence of it. The lack of Spirit on Azeroth made the elementals more violent to the point that the Lords emerged. THat's why Draenor doesn't have Elemental Lords. ReignTG (talk) 19:16, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
We don't know if the Lords came to existence after the world-soul sucked in much of the spirit, or if they already existed before becoming violent. -- MyMindWontQuiet 19:30, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


The BtDP reference was used there for the time mention, not for Ikiss himself. --Mordecay (talk) 21:56, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

A time reference for Murmur's summoning yeah? That doesn't mean it's when Ikiss moved in though, we don't know how short or long after the explosion the Sethekk moved in, just that the explosion was the reason they did. It at least had to be long enough for them to abandon Sethe in favor of the Old God. ReignTG (talk) 00:29, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Visions of Another

What did Illidan say/do in the PTR? A note of the role he almost had should be made. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 03:47, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

After Magni said he didn't know how to find Eonar, Illidan says something along the lines of (not a direct quote) "Leave it to me, the Legion's portal network will help us." ReignTG (talk) 18:23, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Rokhan as leader of Darkspear

All the leaders of the races are present in both faction embassies, that includes Lor'Themar being in the Horde embassy. The reason Liadrin appears is that she is responsible for bringing the Nightborne into the Horde. In the Alliance embassy, the only non-racial leader characters appearing in the embassy are Alleria and Turalyon, who respectively bring the Void Elves and the Lightforged Draenei into the Alliance. This fact, along with Rokhan representing Darkspear trolls during the PvP quest, means he is at the very least the ACTING leader of the Darkspear Trolls. Kookamooka (talk) 17:55, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Blizzard's official statement is that the tribe does not have a leader and there's no dialogue or title on Rokjah saying otherwise yet. It's not something we can just assume without confirmation like that. Eitrigg is also in the embassy. Nathanos is also in the embassy. Rokhan being there does not mean he's the tribe leader. ReignTG (talk) 18:06, 1 December 2017 (UTC)


It's be mixed (discounting RPG). Sometimes 1 word in quests, in-game books, and dialogue. Sometimes 2 words in quests and dialogue. I put that one as 1 word because that's how it was in the citation source. Doesn't really matter either way. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:40, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. ReignTG (talk) 04:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Legends of Odyn

Hey, is there a counterpart item for The Favored of Odyn tablet? --Mordecay (talk) 11:52, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Not that I could find on wowhead at least.
Found it on Reddit, it's  [Lost Legend of the Valarjar]... and it actually has a page with its purpose! :D --Mordecay (talk) 21:42, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


It's from the RPG. Xporc (talk) 19:55, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

It isn't wrong.--SWM2448 20:07, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
Probably, I was just informing :p Xporc (talk) 20:18, 22 February 2018 (UTC)


Hey man, willing to join our Slack channel? Xporc (talk) 19:31, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate the offer, but I'm fine not joining for now. ReignTG (talk) 20:30, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
It's treason then. -- MyMindWontQuiet 03:08, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


Yo, could u direct me to the page that speaks of a sword mentioned by Ssarbik / Malus? Well first off, is it from the first or second book? --Mordecay (talk) 17:51, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

First book, page 364. Ssarbik says something like "What if he finds more pieces of the sword?" after Aram finds the shard in Feralas. And while I haven't read far yet in book 2, while looking at Aram's sketches in it there's a sketch of a draenei-looking sword hilt... :thinking: ReignTG (talk) 18:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
And here we have that it has 336 pages. Got kindle so can't see pages. What chapter? --Mordecay (talk) 20:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Chapter 35 on the same page Malus tells Ssarbik to contact his sister, here's the full quote: "And what if the boy uzzess the compassss? What if he findzz shardzz of the sssword?" The number of pages being different might be because my copy is hardcover?ReignTG (talk) 21:54, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! Kinda missed that sentence or something :-D Dunno about the pages, Amazon lists 384 for hardcover and softcover. --Mordecay (talk) 22:48, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
No problem! ReignTG (talk) 22:55, 1 March 2018 (UTC)


Hey do you have pics of the V3 preview that are not part of this album, so I can add them? I see you shared a few snippets but not the full pages as well : -- MyMindWontQuiet 00:04, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, those are the only pics I've seen too. ReignTG (talk) 02:21, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Ah, can I ask where you are getting the pics from ? I mean the little snippets like these, I'd be interested in the full pages. -- MyMindWontQuiet 09:21, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
The preview on Amazon. Isn't that where everyone's getting them? I mean here's the full page, but can you not see it on Amazon too? ReignTG (talk) 15:47, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
From what I gather not everyone has acess to the same preview pages Xporc (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Cheers for that page. Xporc is correct, the reason I was asking you for your pages is that the Amazon Prime preview pages differ from person to person, which is also why I was gathering them all and compiling them into one Imgur album. -- MyMindWontQuiet 16:19, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Ah, gotcha. ReignTG (talk) 16:22, 6 March 2018 (UTC)


Hey. I forgot to tell you the other day, b when you add something like "xxx can now be found at the xxx zone in Zandalar", could you please add the matching category? Xporc (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2018 (UTC)


Hi, the first quest here asks you to kill "Arlethal" Bloodwatcher, the "highest ranking member of the Reliquary", and High Examiner. However, the High Examiner and highest ranking member of the Reliquary should be Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher. Is this a mistake ? Or did Tae'thelan die and Arlethal replaced him ? Any idea which of the two it is ? -- MyMindWontQuiet 19:31, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

I haven't done that quest myself yet nor seen any sign of Tae'thelan, so I'm not sure, sorry. ReignTG (talk) 22:10, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Here we are, Tae'thelan is mentioned here on a drop from a goblin for a quest: So looks like he's still the boss. ReignTG (talk) 02:34, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
And it turns out that "Arlethal Bloodwatcher" was a mistake in the quest, the NPC is actually called Arlethal Sunwatcher.
So they created a whole new character and made him "the highest ranking member of the Reliquary" and "High Examiner" when that's supposed to be Tae'thelan it looks like. Still not sure if mistake or if he is supposed to replace Tae'thelan at some point -- MyMindWontQuiet 03:03, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Great Seal

Hi, were the Royal Chambers renamed to the Great Seal in Dazar'alor ? -- MyMindWontQuiet 14:25, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes. ReignTG (talk) 14:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Taelia & the Guard

Heya, what's the exact quote? --Mordecay (talk) 17:12, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Wowhead still says "My name is Taelia, member of the Proudmoore Guard and squire of Sir Cyrus Crestfall", but maybe this is different in-game. -- MyMindWontQuiet 19:53, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Dabyrie's Farmstead

Do you know the the Dabyries are confirmed deceased? --Ryon21 (talk) 23:22, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't see them anywhere, but nothing talking about them either. Just that they're gone and their farm has Syndicate now. Here's an album of changes if you're interested: ReignTG (talk) 23:30, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Is there Zidormi to turn the zone to its cata version? Or is is permanent for all (low level characters)? --Mordecay (talk) 23:36, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Zidormi is by Thandol Span. ReignTG (talk) 23:48, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Interesting. Many thanks for the album! --Ryon21 (talk) 23:37, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Undercity Plaguebat

I'm not sure if it makes sense to list  [War-Torn Reins of the Undercity Plaguebat] only on the felbat page and not on the bat page. While it uses a felbat base model, there doesn't seem to be anything about it suggesting that it's supposed to be a demonic felbat lore-wise. Blizzard does have a tendency of using whatever model is the most recent to represent creatures, ignoring said model's lore connotations (like representing Azerothian earth and water elementals in Legion using the models of earth and water furies from Draenor). -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 15:18, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

My listing it wasn't meant to be a lore-based thing, just for the sake of models. Like if someone says "I want a felbat for a mount, I wonder what options I have?" and checks the felbat page, they see that. ReignTG (talk) 15:22, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Hm, fair enough. I do think it should be listed on the bat page as well, though. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 15:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
It can be on both, maybe? --Mordecay (talk) 15:36, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Yes, that is what I meant. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 15:37, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
I don't see why not yeah. ReignTG (talk) 15:47, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
The Draenor earth elementals on the Broken Isles are actually called Furies as well. --Mordecay (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
True, but that makes even less sense than them just using the same models, since furies are supposed to be unique to Draenor (regardless of if one is referring to furies in the WoD sense of all Draenic elementals, or in the TBC and Chronicle sense of the four most powerful Draenic elementals). -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 15:32, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
Totally. --Mordecay (talk) 15:36, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


Hey is the Wardruid and the Hexpriest's divorce no longer mentioned by the NPCs ? -- MyMindWontQuiet 10:13, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

That's what someone else said. I spent a minute or two talking to Raptari Druid a couple times and it never popped up, but it may have been bad luck. ReignTG (talk) 16:08, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Sethraliss and Defeat Jakra'zet

Heya, do you happen to have an external source for this bit you added to the Sethraliss article? Any footage or screenshots of the beta version of the quest, etc.? -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 21:04, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't remember if the cutscene ever actually had Sethraliss on beta, but I do know for a fact that she showed up in the Sanctuary of the Devoted after the Jakra'zet quest instead of after the dungeon. You can see her at 1:54:40 here. ReignTG (talk) 21:18, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Hm, interesting. Could that have been unintentional, though? I.e., the avatar was only ever planned to show up in the Sanctuary after the dungeon but mistakenly appeared before the dungeon on alpha? -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 21:23, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
I suppose that's possible ReignTG (talk) 22:36, 25 August 2018 (UTC)


Hi. Do you recall a bit about the previous Zandalari palace being in Nazmir before it was moved to Dazar'alor ? Think I remember it from alpha/beta. -- MyMindWontQuiet 15:46, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

I never saw or heard anything about that except you mentioning it once before. ReignTG (talk) 15:47, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Maybe that giant building near Nazwatha? — SurafbrovWowpedia administrator T / C 15:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I may have heard it from User:WarGodZajru. -- MyMindWontQuiet 21:19, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, it was from a quest during beta, Talanji mentioned that the Great Seal had been reconstructed into a palace after the old one fell, I then drew conclusions based on all the ruins around Naz'Watha (they're the most concentrated, showing it was a very populated area) which would've been the center of the Zandalari Empire based on the ruins and three seal temples around Zandalar all having major, big roads leading right into it. Can't remember if she mentioned that it was in Nazmir or not, and it doesn't seem like the quest is still around as far as I've seen. –WarGodZajru (talk) 23:22, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Do you remember the name of the quest ? Do we also know the timeframe (more like 5 years ago or 200 years ago) ? -- MyMindWontQuiet 14:09, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm also curious now because I never heard anything about it at all, and I kept up with beta quite a bit. ReignTG (talk) 14:52, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Afraid I don't User:MyMindWontQuiet, was far too long ago. If I recall correctly it was during the intro quests to Zandalar, whether mentioned in a quest itself or her dialogue, can't remember exactly. :c –WarGodZajru (talk) 16:39, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Would be interesting to find it because it would relate to the  [Waterlogged Zandalari Journal] and Rastakhan's palace being destroyed. -- MyMindWontQuiet 17:03, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
The opening paragraph of the Nazmir Visitor's Guide supports the notion that the original capital was in Nazmir before it was moved to Zuldazar, if that helps. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 21:27, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
I believe the Vol'dun one too says that it (Vol'dun) was once the shining jewel of troll civilization, or something along those lines, to make matters more confusing. -- MyMindWontQuiet 00:22, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Nazmir being was the old capital before Zuldazar even existed, they left to avoid Ghuun. ReignTG (talk) 00:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
The tablet technically doesn't mention anything about capitals, it just says some trolls moved south because of the blood rituals/trolls/whispers. Doesn't say that Zuldazar didn't already exist, both it and Nazmir could have existed at the same time, until the Nazmir people moved to Zuldazar and abandoned it. -- MyMindWontQuiet 00:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
What I understand is that Nazmir is the birthplace of the troll race. Before the Zandalari united, before their mighty empires, Zul'Nazman near Uldir was the centre of their culture. Maybe similar to how Strom was to Arathor. Then they left because of G'huun, and Dazar united the tribes and founded Zuldazar to the south. Speculation, but it seems to point to this.
Although since this talks about the blood troll history, maybe I'm completely wrong, Carved in Stone, Written in Blood --Ryon21 (talk) 00:47, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't know about the "birthplace", but yeah this is basically what you get if you put Dazar's dungeon journal, the cracked tablet and the nazmani tablet together. -- MyMindWontQuiet 00:56, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Yep. About the birthplace, since this seems to be oldest known location inhabited by trolls, I thought about that. But yeah, could be elsewhere too (damn khajiita). --Ryon21 (talk) 01:17, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
The Vol'dun Visitor's Guide technically doesn't say that. You're probably thinking of H [30-50] The Warguard's Trail, in which Meerah says that Vol'dun was "once the jewel of the troll empire" (so technically it comes from the mouth of a potentially unreliable narrator, rather than the Word of God presented in the Visitor's Guides, not that I think it matters in this case). IMO, describing something as the "jewel of X" seems pretty subjective and not like something that has a lot of meaning. I.e., we know that there were troll settlements in Vol'dun, based on all the Zandalari ruins everywhere. Maybe back in the day some trolls thought those cities were prettier than the capital in Nazmir, so they called Vol'dun the jewel of the troll empire even though Nazmir was the official capital. To use another example, maybe in the days of the Kaldorei Empire, Zin-Azshari was hailed as the capital, but some elves thought that Suramar was the more beautiful city, so they called Suramar the jewel of kaldorei civilization, while others disagreed and called Ameth'Aran or Shandaral or whathaveyou the jewel. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 09:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


Hi, as far as I recall, trees of life used this model, and they simply did not exist before Legion.

And protectors used this one -- MyMindWontQuiet 11:29, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Yeah people on Slack have said the same, and Suraf looked up the model names. I think you may have gotten the two mixed up. -- MyMindWontQuiet 11:51, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Dire troll kiddos

Since you initially asked for source, whats your opinion on Dire troll kiddos now? --Mordecay (talk) 18:32, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't assume they're kids unless something explicitly says so, since they look nothing like it. ReignTG (talk) 02:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
TBH Shay Leafrunner, Lil' Crazy Daisy, Juliette and Raphael are all childs despite using smaller adult models. Heck, in Warcraft III, even Baine used a bearded Tauren Chieftain model despite being a smoll teen Xporc (talk) 11:45, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
It's not uncommon, and actually standard, for kids/teens in WoW to use smaller sized adult models. -- MyMindWontQuiet 15:52, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


Wait, what quest says that the scenario is not Zin-Azshari?--SWM2448 03:45, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

N [10-45] Huln's War - The Nathrezim "With his defeat, the attack on Azshara would fail and balance could be restored.". Azshara is not Zin-Azshari. ReignTG (talk) 14:54, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes it is, and the events in the Huln quest happened in the capital.--SWM2448 22:28, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I only remember the RPG ever saying Azshara is Zin-Azshari. Even if they are the same thoug, to make the claim that Eldarath is only a placeholder would need an actual statement from Blizz saying so, I'd say. The default should be to assume what we see is what it was. ReignTG (talk) 22:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I think the appearance of the Blackmaw furbolgs also confirms it being Azshara instead of Zin-Azshari, no? --Mordecay (talk) 22:34, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
I can be both places if they are the same place. Read what Malynea Skyreaver says.--SWM2448 22:46, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
But Azshara didn't exist until after the War of the Ancients. It was named like that because there are ruins of Zin-Azshari there, in someway, no? --Ryon21 (talk) 23:00, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Not necessarily. Duskwatch Subjugators could have been posted there pre-Sundering. My point is the area is used as a stand in for Zin-Azshari because it is Zin-Azshari, but it is clearly a stand-in. The outskirts are being used as the city proper.--SWM2448 23:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Claiming it is a stand-in would need a source from Blizzard saying so. Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation, is what we see is what it is. Plus yeah, the furbolgs. ReignTG (talk) 23:11, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
It is the same city. The location is technically correct. However, Blizzard is reusing existing ruins for a scenario that, while it wasn't really in the novels at all, and so has some wiggle room for an off-screen battle by the main characters far from where they should be, would be in the main city if it was.--SWM2448 23:21, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Malynea Skyreaver's dialogue was clearly inspired from the RPG and I don't know why it keeps being treated as if it ever had any ounce of logic in it, even the WotA novel contradicted it. It is literally the only source that says so and it defies both the lore and logic. Zin-Azshari never touched Azshara/current Kalimdor. -- MyMindWontQuiet 21:53, 7 November 2018 (UTC)