Wowpedia talk:Warcraft pump/Archive04

From Wowpedia
Jump to: navigation, search


A New Faction

Isn't there a rumored 3rd faction being introduced with the advent of WoW II?

I think they are based on the moon or some other planet. It is conceivable that pandaerans could be a sort of pet race for a higher order intelligence, or could be one of many 'neutral' races associated with the new faction, whose primary race (ala humans/orcs) could be spiritual in nature, hence above the conflict, but able to participate if necessary for maintaining the balance of neutrality.--;> 21:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... of the games I've played with 3 factions it always goes pear shaped. the playerbase becomes too spread out and griefers get a hayday. I would rather deal with 1/2 of the jerks on my server then 2/3rds of them. -- Aki no kaze 16:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Considering Blizzard has said they aren't working on WoW 2 anytime soon I would discount any rumors you here. --User:Mucke/sig 18:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
they'll never make WoW 3 because then WoW would completely empty and during the interval they'd go bankrupt so, they're just gonna make expansion packs. Blizz ain't stupid.--Gnomez 21:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
well i wish they use the panda but sadly they wont,why,because the pandaerans are ultra rare to see. i read some where(in wowwiki i belive) that if one persone see on in it live time he is extremy lucky.So how could a race that is rare to see be a new race is unlikely to happend
The Pandaren as a race really isn't as far-fetched as that. The reason the Pandaren are rare to be seen is because they supposedly live on another continent in a reclusive oriental nation. The Draenei were in space, for crying out loud, considerably more migration than the Pandaren would have to make to get to Azeroth.

Yes, they may be ultra rare, but if what Jamvaru said was true, if they came from another planet, then why not? There could be a whole organization of them hidden somewhere in azeroth aswell, eh. Maybe Northrend is the host of them.

I read somewhere, and I wish I could find it again, that the creator of the Panderan has asked that they not be in WoW, or at least not widely spread. He wants them to have that ultra-rare and fresh feel. --User:Mucke/sig 19:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

~ The most likely new faction would probably be the races with Old God/Elemental Lords connections: Naga, Murlocs, Nerubians(?), Shadow Trolls, Centaur, Dark Iron Dwarves, etc. Maybe even a sect of Goblins. It would make sense that non-aquatic races would require a underwater suit to visit the Naga City which would require goblin enginuity thus requiring the introduction of the goblin Undercity which is just southwest of the Maelstrom. ~ --NightBeard 05:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean Undermine. This city is likely the main area for a future expansion pack. User:Reacheround/Sig 04:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I think they considered Naga at one point, but then it came down to the problem with pants... I personally don't think it's such a big deal, considering that Tauren and Trolls don't have boot models, but Blizzard has always been picky. I'd like to see the Panderan, but if what Mucke said is true, gotta respect. Besides, they'd be Alliance anyway, probably... us Horde would be left with the short end of the stick, since the only races I'd like to see on the Horde would be Goblins and Naga. However, there's no plan for new races in any expansion, and there's no plan for a WoW2. --Shinsen 21:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I think adding Pandaren to the Alliance would be pretty cool. Yes, I am an Ally player, but I don't think Horde would get the short end of the stick at all; it seems like no one has said anything about Satyrs, but I think that would be a cool and also quite feasible race. The other elven factions have already been included (Blood Elf and Night Elf). In case you didn't know, Satyrs were originally elves but they delved too deeply into magic. The High Elves(now Night Elves) warned them about the magic and eventually banished them, causeing them to "show off" their power in revenge and summon the Burning Legion to Azeroth. I think Blizzard could explain their breaking off from the Burning Legion and add them to horde, as Night Elves would not accept them and the Blood Elves would. Centaurs and Naga could also be feasible, but the Centaurs have been fighting the Tauren for years and I cannot really see them joining Alliance, and I think the Naga would fit Horde better...unless they have Night Elf connections, I dunno...but that would explain why Illidan knew about them I guess. Nerubians would be aligned with Arthas, so that wouldn't work, Goblins left the Horde already because Blizzard wanted a major neutral faction, but I can see them coming back, although that would cause problems with Neutral towns like Booty Bay and Gadgetzan. I'd like Blizzard to expand to the island by the Southern tip of Kalimdor, call me crazy but I've always wanted to go there and that could very possibly be home of the Pandarens. Adding another planet could be fun, but it would't make much sense as the major war is with Arthas, who is in Azeroth, however I guess it's possible for another planet to attack Azeroth. But then it would be hard to explain someone attacking and then befriending either side. --Pandem 20:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

-- I think that The Blood Elves were once High Elves, not Night Elves. (sorry, OCD.) Totemface 04:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

(Apologies if I'm arriving in this conversation really late, just feel that I should state my opinion). The way I see it, "WoW 2" is just a stupid rumor started by players. We are playing in the World of Warcraft, there is no second world. "WoW 2" would be a bad thing for Blizzard to make, forcing players to level all the way from 1 again to a much higher level cap in the same zones and with the same quests, just with better graphics, would be stupid. There will be no third faction, there will be no "WoW 2." WoW is "Warcraft IV" and Blizzard won't make another Warcraft RTS, unless it's a recap of everything that happened between the Frozen Throne and World of Warcraft. So, in short, no "WoW 2," no "Warcraft IV," no third faction. Once again, sorry if I came in here really late. Zentyr 10:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless you have some new evidence no one else does, your comments on Warcraft IV are just as false. --   10:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Didn't Blizzard say somewhere that they were continuing the story through World of Warcraft? I'm afraid I don't have a source, I just remember reading it somewhere. Zentyr 10:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Not afaik, they've never said what they'd do past World of Warcraft. The only mention of Warcraft IV has been fans saying WoW is essentially it iirc, which makes sense sequentially. That doesn't restrict the RTS continuing with it's naming and excluding WoW from the sequence though. --   10:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

There is an possibility for a thrid faction. I created the idea for my emerald dream expansion. Its neutral races. At level 20 they choose if the ywant to join alliance or horde through a quest-line. Nerox 21:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason to count just writing a fan fiction about one as a possibility for a third faction.--SWM2448 20:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
How would these neutral races communicate with themselves? Horde and alliance are very specifically prevented from talking to each other. Would the race forget how to talk to others of the same race? And think of all the extra quests that'd have to be written... There's a lot of logistical problems involved in adding any sort of neutral faction, or even a third, mutually-hostile faction. It's just not going to happen. --Bobson 22:01, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I would love to play a Tuskarr, Walruses are my favorite animal. Nerubians would be fun to play also. Tuskarr would have to have Hunters. Tuskarr Shamans, Warriors and Druids would make sense to put in also. Another faction would take a lot of time to make, it would be easier on Blizzard to add more races for the Alliance and the Horde. Blizzard also announced they aren't planning on adding new races, but it's still possible. --Komash 22:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Panderan druid FTW, they have a human form! Aseh 02:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Concerning Goblins as a race, I can imagine a "third" faction, Steamweedle Cartel, as their base, being friendly to Booty Bay, Gagedzan, Everlook and Ratchet, yet being neutral to all 10 main factions (Stormwind, Ironforge, Gnomeregan Exiles, Darnassus, Exodar, Undercity, Thunderbluff, Orgrimmar, the Trolls and the Blood Elves (dunno their faction names tbh). At some point players should have the option to choose a side, or remain neutral to all (and thus abandoning all hope for PvP combat unless a suitable solution can be found for that, can't imagine though). Also, Racial Passive could be "Merchant" - everything costs 10% less, and generates 10% money (including trade, AH and vendor). just my 2 ct. Chibby 6:45, 8 March 2008 (CET)

Wouldn't it most probably be the Naga? From what I understand, they are an extension of the old gods and can certainly be a new faction. I don't exactly see them on either the side of the Alliance, or the Horde. But they could certainly even form their own side. This could be a mix of races such as Naga, Murlocs, and other watery serpents. Perhaps the Pandaren race could be included into this for some unknown reason. It would be very easy to conceive. - Triangles.

Fist of all, from what i hear, these are, as you have stated, just rumors. There has been no official notice from Blizzard regarding "Pandaren." Second, I imagine that Blizz would use a faction that already exists in WoW, (a.k.a. Naga, Goblins, Furbolgs, Murlocks... ect) instrad of just making one up from the moon. Third and final of my rants, if there is to be another alignment, why not neutral? I know people have said this, but how about if players that choose a neutral race decide Horde or Alliance upon creation? Sounds like a good idea to me. Unfortunately I have a feeling that pandaren and new alignments are all most likely the result of some stupid teen running his mouth to much. Totemface 04:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Fire Mage Abuse

I am quite annoyed by the abuse that fire mages get....I am a fire mage and getting really annoyed by the magezines, the forums, the PvP mage guides,(which im not PvP...but still...)etc. That all say that if you're a fire mage, then you will basicly fail if you dont have ice block, improved counterspell, and all of the other arcane and ice talent spells.

well, I don't see why the forums talk about pyroblast, or blast wave, or the 10% chance stun in the FIRE talent line, or the 75% chance of fire spells not being interrupted. I think a lot of the forums for some reason were made by Ice mages. I wish more fire mages would talk about things in the forums. --Rabidmoncy 21:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

  • So do it. I don't know squat about mages, or I'd help. Add in sections where you think they need to be mentioning the other alternatives. --Azaram 09:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Well my mage is nearly all fire, 2 points in Arcane and 5 so far in Frost, the last two will be improved frost nova. Nothing can out DPS a fire mage, its laughable how hard my mage hits. I rarely use Frost Nova as I can take the one or two hits anything non-elite will give me as it doesn't survive for 3 hits.
Ice Mages == EASY MODE. Its basically the sissy style of play. You have ice block and rely on it because you can't manage your opponents. Its used mostly by PvP and lack luster mages.
Arcane + Fire is great if you want to be a 3 minute mage (PoM to cast an instant Pyro is awesome) and I may covert that way, not sure if I want to give up Dragon's Breath though. User:Sharlin/Sig 09:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Now, now, both specs have their advantages and disadvantages. Certainly fire mages have oustanding DPS, and frost mages have much better survivability. But saying that ice mages can't manage their opponents is ignorant and rude. On the contrary, some of the best mages I've ever met are ice mages. In addition, I've had many warriors tell me they much prefer having ice mages in their group for instancing because of their increased survivability and their slowing effects. If they do pull aggro (slightly less likely, given their lower DPS), they're less likely to get hit, as the mob will be walking very slowly towards them, and even if the mob does reach them before the tank gets it back, they can ice block to give them even more time.
I've played both specs, leveling to 60 as fire and respeccing to frost at the talent review. I'll probably switch to hybrid with focus in fire soon to take advantage of my Spellfire gear. Both are very fun to play. One of my favorite things to do when I am bored is to try to solo higher level instances, a feat which was much, much harder as a fire mage. I'll miss that, but I'll also enjoy sending my opponents to firey hell so fast they don't even cover the distance to me. --Mikaka 23:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec. Most raid mobs are immnue to slowing effects. As for it being ignorant and rude, the last person I want in my raid some easy mode ice mage who thinks his spec will keep him from getting killed. Too many of them are just that. Instances and Raids do not follow the same rules and they just don't seem to get it. User:Sharlin/Sig 11:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That's a little presumptuous. Pzychotix (talk · contr) 11:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
What the build or the experience of having played with too many of them? Its an observation from play, some builds are just refused from raids anymore because they can indicate the wrong mindset/playstyle from what is required for raiding User:Sharlin/Sig 13:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm a 10/48/3 mage, and I also must say that I would not allow a frost mage to go raiding with me. Frost mages simply fall short on DPS...the survivability options are essentially useless, because a good mage should never draw aggro in a raid. If somebody wants to spec frost, that's fine, but they need to stick to PvP. Putts 23:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm full frost right now (0/0/61) to get every bit of damage I can out of it, was sitting at 10/0/51 for a while till they added the damage boost to Arctic Winds and with that much in Frost I opted to just take everything from there as I did not think I would get much impact from another tree.
I agree you should never take hits but I'm not usually the one that pulls aggro and as a frost mage I love how long Frost Nova can hold things for someone to take better control of the situation. Add Cold Snap / Imp Blizzard and you get some pretty nice options for CC beyond a single sheep. It's very mana efficient and when I'm soloing allows for burst DPS through FN/FB and Ice Lance to clear things quick.
I'm willing to look at options but haven't been able to cypher out everything in Fire, I see Arcane to Clearcasting and Elemental Precision from Frost easy enough but what exactly is this raiding spec? --Casey37 22:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Playing as fire mage is a lot faster than as ice........people just dont want to admit that fire mages are one of the games strongest force of a something you would call "fire lover" but what would you say?Fire mages rule!!!Qerka 17:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Fire has its strong suits, but so does Frost. As Arcane/Frost I kept up with and/or surpassed all of my guild's Fire mages, and as Fire I enjoy the same domination. Not everyone enjoys the playstyle of Fire, for quite a while I certainly didn't, and Frost does tend towards superior threat reduction, slightly cheaper mana costs, and survivability at the cost of some damage. Calling 10/48/3 the "only" raiding spec is simple naivete - a good mage realizes that all specs have their place in differing situations, and can adapt summarily, something you often see among the mages of Nihilum, Death and Taxes, etc. what with changing specs as to fit the situation. (Also, I don't think I've ever heard of 'abuse' of only Fire mages - in fact, many mages tend to bash on every spec that isn't theirs for some reason, something that leads to much frustration and confusion.) Velrynne 09:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know a ton about mages (one of the few classes I haven't really played), but alot of the abuse given to fire mages is based on what were the high level dungeons before Burning Crusade came out. With dungeons such as UBRS (or LBRS, I forget), Blackwing Lair, and Molten Core the DPS of fire mages was greatly reduced by many fire-resistant mobs. However with the advent of Naxxramas and completely new BC content some of the balance has shifted back toward fire mages. Arcane mages are the ones who get no love as far as I can tell. Someone should stand up for them. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:11 PM PDT 9 July 2006
Ok. so here we go. My first Toon was an arcane specced mage. Still is arcane spec. Simply put, I find them rather mana efficient, as well as having a decent DPS. This however, may have something to do that along with the talents and everything else, I have actually geared my mage toward halfway melee. I am not saying he is god. All I am saying, is i find that i can tear through gnomer, and manage 2-3 even con mobs. Clearcasting state and arcane missiles, with the sheild and everything... i just manaburn them down while i am swinging my sword. throw a few arcane explosions in there, and I have saved the party.
We have a Fire Mage on everyone of our Kara runs...doesn't cause any problems at all. In fact they are only one of two that come close to me on dps. --Mucke->Blameme 03:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Ice Block and Improved Counterspell are really mostly important to PVP mages (along with goodies like Ice Barrier). If you don't PVP, fire mages are superior in straight up DPS (in my experience). However, in arena PVP, nowadays, focus fire is so intense that without Ice Block, you will simply die as a fire mage. Improved Counterspell is nice for locking down opposing players while focus firing someone down. I mean, it may mean nothing to you that the top arena teams have pretty much only frost mages, but if you can do better than they can as fire, show everyone they were wrong. =) --krakatoan 20:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec." <-- why does everyone take the same spec??? a few mages in my guild have this, so i went 12/46/3 1) better amplify/dampen magic for improved healing on melee boss 2) somone else will already have the +15% fire buff on the boss, you dont need several people with improved scorch Sharlotha 11:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Playing as a tank, I can't stand Fire Mages in my group, and I will tell you why. A majority of Fire Mages I have met have them same reaction to mobs in instances no matter if they are Horde or Alliance. Lay on the DPS hard and fast, gain aggro, run away. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal if they gain aggro, it happens sometimes, its the running away part that gets on my nerves. If you are going to play a DPS class with low survivability to melee damage, then you have to learn that running away from the tank is the wrong idea. In order for him to regain aggro, he needs to hit the mob, and it isn't going to magically stop chasing you when you run away. Stay put, stopping casting spells, and if the tank hasn't figured it out, tell them you have aggro.
In addition, I think it is utterly laughable that You can spec yourself as fire and not be expected to use spells from the ice tree. That's like telling a Paladin "Hey, I know you are Protection specced, but if the healer can't get to you in time, you're just out of luck, since we don't want you healing yourself, you aren't specced for that!" You use everything you have at your disposal. You may not be as good at it as someone specced for it, but every little bit counts. -[[{User: Geoffory|Geoffory]] Newcastle, Steamwheedle Cartel 10:13, 23 November 2007

I think anyone whos says one is better than the other doesnt know what they are talking about. When u are a mage you are given the basic spells from all three classes. The only reason most people think ice is better is because it is easier to get used to because most fire mages don't understand that a tank is always very busy and can't always just jump over and help you. A fire mage does damage faster but has less survivability and ice mages is the exact opposite arcane mages(which by the way i don't see too many but beside the point) are an in between and probably the best spec for someone who is used to playing something like a hunter. I am fire mage and I've never had any complaints about the way I play.

It's a pretty simple concept. Fire is, and will always be, the true DPS tree for mages. Frost does great DPS in the right circumstances, but its most powerful talents are defensive. Arcane has been somewhat of an odd man out since WoW was released, though recently it has found its niche as a viable high end raiding tree, if you have the healthy mana regen required to sustain it.

Frost is seen as the PvP tree because of the survivability it provides the mage. With the constant barrage of dots, cc, debuffs, etc that get flung at you in PvP, ice block/coldsnap/ice barrier seem like a necessity to this mage, but of course, it is a matter of opinion. Fire does better DPS, hands down, but you will most definitely find yourself dieing faster in most PvP situations. It is a matter of play style and opinion which you choose.

Having played all three different speccs, and several hybrided ones (I am a very ambivalent person :P) I can say that most things you will hear about fire vs frost are false, or atleast very innacurate. Survivalism is one such obvious thing, you see most mages understand the concept of putting on Ice Block and Ice Barrier, but suprisingly few understand to use Dragon's Breathe and Blast Wave in the same way. I usually find myself surviving longer in PvP by slowing my enemys down, then confusing them and blinking away, rather then rooting myself in place so they can surronded me. Ice Barrier is of course a very nice thing to have, but Mana Shield works just as fine and doesn't have a cooldown, making it superior to Ice Barrier. It does drain mana but to be honest I rarely find myself out of mana when it takes only a few fire spells to kill of my target. Having Impact and Molten Armor on will also give you that 0.1 sec you will need to blink away from a rogues stunlock, whereas Ice Barrier would only give you another 1k health for the rogue to bash down. And I don't think I even have to explain why you wouldn't use Ice Block on a rogue. So for trading away Ice Barrier I instead get a instant slow and a instant confuser, both are AoE making them valid for both group and solo PvP. In arena however people will be aiming for you so there many says Ice Block is a must, and it probably would have been if it wasn't for Invisibilty. That spell is one of the most useless things ever made, it does however serve a purpose in Arena, namely giving you the ability to creep up on their healer, who you yourself won't see but who someone in the party can simply attack to give you a general idea. And then pop Combustion and use your 3 instant fire attacks. This will cause the healer to start healing himself making his friends easy target with your current 55-60% crit chance on fire spells (Atleast that is what I have at that point). Of course they might be skilled enough to purge you before you manage to attack, or they might have stealth detection. But because all mages go frost for Arena and never use Invís that rarely happens, and I still prefer that small chance of failure over the ability to let my friends die 10 seconds before me. : Darkstaffa 03:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I've been a 21/40/0, 3 minute mage since her creation and doing so has only paid off more in the later 70 dungeons. I've never gotten any flak for being a Fire Mage and don't see why I ever would. I always watch my threat meter and know my role. Survivability is never an issue because I make sure to never pull aggro. If someone does mess up and pulls early then what good would Ice Block do anyway? Save myself while everone else wipes? Makes no sense to me. As for DpM, with 10000 mana, it's never an issue, and if it is a long boss fight, then there is always Evocation. My point is, I would never want to play anything other than a Fire mage. (yeah, I've played them all) - A00627213

I have played as a frost mage and as an arcane mage. I do see the point they are trying to make, but that doesn't make fire mages any worse than frost or arcane. Also, just because frost mages may have better armor buffs, doesn't necessarily mean their chance of survival is any better, it all depends on the way you play. Same goes for the stereotype of fire mages and dps.: Themusikid 16:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Shaman Stuff

I'm kind of an in-betweener for WoW. I started maybe half a year ago, I've tried many things over that time. I've been known to be a kind of a char hopper, because I've used two/three months of that time to play every class and race in the game to try to catch a good option for me, and because when I thought I was settling down on a BE rogue I got him to lvl 22 and got bored (that was my main. I'd never had a char that high of a level before.). Well, now I'm determined I've found my sweet spot, a shaman, and I've FINALLY gotten him to level 23, over my last 'main.' But here's the thing--I'm a full-enhancement shaman, and I've found I suck at dueling and generally 1v1 combat, though I'm good in group combat. I nearly got beat by a druid four levels under me, and my good friend (a shaman who was two levels under me) beat him HARD with tons more HP than I'd had at the end. He seems to do a lot of jumping and spinning, but I still can't figure out what he's doing better than me. Generally I try to get up close, starting off with maybe some totems and a fire shock, then doing earth shocks whenever the cooldown wears off... what am I doing wrong?

On a different note, the same friend that beat the guy harder than me had better armor, and had equal/better stats than me on everything except Spirit. Considering I never use Lightning Bolts (enhancement, remember?), this is not a good thing. I need to get my stamina up, STAT--a warlock, yeah a WARLOCK in my last group had more health than me. I like to do instances a lot, so I've done WC ten or twenty times and have gotten three pieces of the Fang set... but apparantly that's not gonna cut it. What do I have to do to get more stamina-enhancing armor? I'm not going to use Spirit much.

Lastly, I have about 5 hours of play time a day in WoW, and I've found that the best way to use this is by doing instances. However, everyone around me levels ten times quicker than me! Is there a better way to gain experience, or do I just suck at that too?

Thx --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

--Well, I find myself to be very much like you... I am also a char hopper... I had a lvl 20 rogue before i got bored.. then made a priest to lvl 33, then got bored. Now I too have a shaman and love it. One thing is that shaman (enhancment at least) arent very good at pvp, the focus is more on lvling. If you want to be a PvP shaman... well dont.

Also, warlocks tend to have alot of health and stamina, considering it is basicly a second mana pool for them. (Life tap) Totemface 04:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I edited your question so it is easier to read and does not utterly obliterate our tables. Thank you --Ithar 00:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement Shaman suffer in PvP (dueling) and that has been acknowledged by Blizzard but they also said they have no fix. That being said, enhancement Shamans don't see much progression in DPS until they get their Wind Totems and the [Windfury] weapon buff. The next jump is level 40 where they get dual wield and the Storm Strike talent. Your also stuck in leather armor till 40 as well which doesn't help mitigate melee damage very much.
Most likely your problem in dueling is that you don't stay in melee range. All the running and jumping is simply being done to keep the melee class from hitting them, most likely trying to use frost, fire, or earth, shocks over and over. Don't worry about it. Dueling is for fun.
As for leveling speed, instances suck. The only time you want to do an instance is if you have a bunch of quests in their or just gotta have an item from one. The fastest way to level hands down is to do the quests appropriate for your level and gear. There are lots of free leveling guides on the net, try one. You will probably see that your wasting time in zones either too hard for you. User:Sharlin/Sig 09:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
About the warlock having more HP than you do, that's not unusual. Warlocks use lifetap and drain life for mana, and tend to stack tons of stamina stuff. As one forum poster's signature says, 'My mana bar is green'. (BTW, everybody please sign your posts with four tildes...) --Azaram 03:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
My main is currently a lvl 47 pure enhancement shaman. When I read the start of your post I thought, this is me, becuase I jumped around all the classes and races before I settled on my shammy. First, I wanted to enourage you to stick with it. It is a somewhat hard and complex class to play, but you can really lay out some damage especially in pve. I don't do much PvP but in PvE I can consistently(and have always been able to) bring down mobs 4 levels above me, solo 2-3 mobs at my level, and in groups I am usually have the highest dps. So here's some tips: first make sure you have invested your talents wisely - read up on the best talent builds; conc. on armor that gives strength, stam, intellect, and agility (I try to go for all but prioritize strength); always train all you spells and learn what they do and in which situations u should use each one; and go for the weapon with the highest dps you can. Aim to get dual wield and windfury talents as soon as u can as well as stormstrike. You will be amazed at the difference and the power boost you get - and the tornado effect is so cool! When fighting cloth wearers close them down and melee them as soon as u can, if they are casting spells, wait till they have almost cast it and then hit earth shock - this disrupts the cast and delays the time before they can cast it again. Fire shock is good on rogues becuase it adds a DOT so they cant vanish. Frost shock is good on fleeing oponents so u can get back im melee range. Use ur totems wisely - they are the shammy's strength but also very mana hungry. Watch how ur friend does it. He must be doing something different. OR ask him to watch u and give u some tips. Most of all good luck and stick with it!

Thanks, everyone, but I have the answer. First of all, I don't think I had enough experience in shamans. I've also begun using a spell that I never really used before, but now practically worship... It's a little thing I call PURGE! A guildie of mine reccomended it to me. Now I kill warlocks easy, mages easier, and Paladins like they're grey-levels. I love PvP, and I find it easy now. It was probably just a lack of experience with shamans. Flurry helps a lot too. @ the guy above me, I have no intention to stop playing my Shaman. I've tried every other class except priest, and shaman is by far my favorite.
@ Sharlin--Bad at PvP? I don't think so. I love to kill Allies, and I pretty much dominate other classes now. Instances, noted. Leveling guides... I have the WoW Master Guide (Vol. 2). I'm trying to move on. I just can't find the entrance to the wetlands XD
@ Azaram--Demon Skin. Warlock+Purge+Tremor Totem=Dead Warlock.
@ Ithar--thanks. I still don't know how to sign my stuff XD --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
To sign, either type four tildes (shift and the key to the left of the number 1) or click on the signature button at the top of the edit window (second from the right, looks like a cursive scribble. [Demon Skin] isn't what I was talking about... that just restores a small amount of health, it doesn't give extra. I know warlocks with more HP than I have in my bear gear (not in bear form, just the high-stamina gear). --Azaram 04:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement shaman are awesome when it comes to PvE. And if you want to maximize your damage, I can't think of a better place to go than the Elitist Jerks' theorycraft page. It's invaluable. Just from about three things on that page I've been able to quadruple my level 70 damage output. Ria 18:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Enhancement Shamans being gimped in PvP refers mostly to Arena play, where they have a life expectancy of about 5 seconds. Totems are useless in arena since they get destroyed as soon as you put them down. Battlegrounds aren't as bad since they are generally more chaotic, and chaos is what Shamans thrive on. You don't have a handful of other players standing across from you just waiting to focus-fire you.--tobarstep 14:35, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The Shaman is about chasing and being chased, depending on how matched you are in melee combat, chasing a warlock but running from a rogue. The other trees are mostly impotent, even though the enhancement tree is relatively boring (only stormstrike, really), though it is certainly better than the bogus bonus lightning bolt. The enhancement tree makes the most sense as melee combat is the weakness of the Shaman, who can't live without it nontheless, so boosting is essential. Who wants to be the guy taking longer to 'wolf' than the other Shaman (shamani?). I tried a healing shaman but was just mobbed (in pvp), though it was funny to survive a team up just healing, with the help of my teammates.
Purge and tremor, nod... mostly just fire with both barrels and keep maneuvering for position (behind, not in front). Run and slow if they are tough. Mostly a straight-forward fighter-class, with totems. (Use the totems wisely, like placing them behind the opponent.)--Jamvaru 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
  • now that i think on it more, the straight healing shaman might actually be the one to bet on. I'll have to try it again. ;> 19:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Because the Shaman is perhaps the most balanced of all the classes (average armor, no real weapon skills, inefficient healing, expensive totems that are easily destroyed... also, it tries to do all things in battle, melee, tank, area, healing, blasting, etc.) it is not really good at any of them. So, you try to enhance one or the other of the features - healing, melee, blasting - but still aren't very effective. So, my final thought is that the most effective thing a shaman can have is to be able to heal under fire, the '70%' talent for healing without damage causing delay (Healing Focus). Then you can continue blasting and slashing some more. Recommended stat focus is max int and the rest balanced. ;> 22:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

im sorry u have 5 hrs of play time a day for 1/2 year and your highest was only 22? im sorry iv played i think... 8 mounths now and im lvl 65 come on man. but good choice of a shaman, love them. but i wana say that an 41/0/20 shaman is a super crit machine. with 6% crit chance from call of thunder and 5% from tidal mastery and 3% from wrath totem(so thats 14% crit with spec only on lightning) and a 100% crit damage bounus and 60% mana off next spell cast on a crit makes for a crit monster. so i think shaman can do stuff good.

04:30, 9 November 2007 Stormrage1313666 (Talk | contribs)

you forgot to add your sig...

check out this page, i just got done with it: Troll-shaman ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

My sham just hit lvl 42. I'm really enjoying the enhancement tree (2.3 is a gift from God) but I think I wanna roll a warr now. I just can't beat CC. Shamans don't have any Crowd Control, so I get pwnd every time I get stunned or rooted. At lower levels, other characters were dead meat because I was faster than they were. Slow, Gwolf, chase, kill. Now, at 42, everyone's mounted! My mith spurs don't really help that much either.
The reason I wanna roll a warrior, specifically, is because I can still have that up-in-your-face deal I had with my sham, but with more armor, CC, Charge/Intercept, and the ability to kill rogues. The rogue-killing is what I really look forward to.
On the other hand, if you have any tips for making the impact of having no CC lighter, feel free to tell me. I love my shaman, and I don't really wanna leave him.
And btw Stormrage I know that's pitiful but I couldn't find out wtf I wanted to do; Horde or Alliance, and then I had to experiment with each class. xD and it looks like I'm gonna fall into that again
Btw my friend dueled me again. I beat him 2/3 =D

--Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Tried warriors, didnt' like it. Back with shaman, level 50, still loving it. Do you think I should swap to elemental at this point? It'd be a moderate hassle to get the gear (not THAT bad since I have ~230 mining, and mith sells for 10g/stack on my server), but the real problem would be adjusting to the new playstyle. I'd have to figure out how to be Elemental effectively, and I love my Enhancement skill. Besides, I like the novelty of being a melee shaman. It's like mother nature...with heavy armor and battle axes. --Shinsen 21:53, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you're planning on raiding at level 70 (Mostly Elemental and Restoration shamans here last time I checked) then I'd advise you to start collecting the caster mail at Outland, because the shift from elemental to restoration is far easier instead of from enhancement to restoration. Once you got a nice set of items (at about lvl 60/62 when you started in Outland at 58) then spec to elemental. The spec needs a bit getting used to, but it's really easy with basically only one spell (Lightning Bolt).--Uldreg 01:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Respec'd to elemental at 51, regardless. Enjoying it sufficiently, disappointed about the loss of mage kills I've gotten ( [Counterspell] is a b**ch), happy about all the 800-crits in my new elemental armor. I crit very often, and though I'm taking a highly-elemental build right now, I intend to respec to the "Arena Elemental" 40/0/21 at 70 to get Nature's Swiftness as opposed to [Totem of Wrath]. Only gonna respec Restoration at 70 if I absolutely have to (probably will, as I very much intend to raid with the Hellscream Maurauders, the best raiding guild on the server). So far enjoying it, but enhancement was more fun to some degree. Glad the survival rate as Ele is better, tho. --Shinsen 00:50, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Which high end weapon enchant?

I'm just wondering which enchants to put on my duel-wielded swords. I have a Vindicator's with a speed of 2.60 and a Felsteel with a speed of 2.20. I'm looking at Mongoose but I don't know which sword would benefit more from it. Any advice? Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk · contr).

They would both benefit the same if mongoose proc'd. The real question is which will it proc more from. Off-hand weapons have half the chance to proc. Even though your off-hand is faster, the main hand will proc more often. So, get the main hand enchanted first.
 ∙ Zurr  TalkContr 10:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Assuming your a warrior I would say put it on your main hand, get strength or some other constant on your off hand. For a rogue its a toss up. The agility is key to your crit rate but you don't need a crit spree in an instance as your tank won't be able to save you. No Hunter should ever buy this or other melee proc enchantment as you never want to be in melee to use it. (not to op, but feral druids cannot benefit from it either) User:Sharlin/Sig 10:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I dw mongoose on my lvl 70 rogue. As I understand it mongoose is a proc-per-minute enchant so it should consistently proc off of either weapon no matter the speed of the weapon. I find I have at lesat one if not two buffs running form procs off of my weapons. It never gives me aggro issues and the extra 120-240 agility is a lot of fun. Mucke - Blameme 22:14 pm, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Had to sign up to add my two cents to this... First of all, ganking happens and you learn to deal with it over time. On our server, Alliance outnumber Horde 4 to 1 and most of them are ten year old kids whose parents use WoW as a form of babysitter. I have a lvl 70 Lock I leave parked next to my alt which takes care of most of my problems, but sometimes it causes the Alliance I reganked and camped to call on his other 70's to return the favor. Oh well, what can you do. I basically went from being the respectful horde to gank on demand. I hate generalizing the Alliance like that, but I look at it as, "You might as well get them before they get you." I don't mind getting ganked, but I hate it when they wait until you have ten percent health to do so, but it is going to happen; thus, deal with it, or move to the Horde side and see how Alliance are not much better.
I think you may have responded to a different topic than you intended, cause I don't really see how ganking and weapon enchants are related in this case. --User:Mucke/sig 21:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Night Elves' Origin. Help!

Hi all, I'm planning on making a little movie about Night Elves' origin, i know it not clear at all, but i'd like to make out of my own theory. Sorry in advance for any mistake with the english language, i'm not native speaker ;)

I'm on the side of Elune's origin, and after reading a bit through the net i found a lot of "empty" spaces inside the stories... Of course the help i need is from someone who knows a lot about warcraft lore, since i'm only a newbie, still have to read all the books xD, but i'm not sure that they would solve my questions...

First of all, the reason why im on the Elune's Origin side is as it follows: We've got 2 origins, trolls or Elune, so i stick to the one that matches exactly physically with night elves, which is Elune, and not the ones that have some "similar" things, now, How do i "know" Elune's appereance is that of a night elf? by these facts: First I thought of the Statue of Darnassus and said ok, if that's how Elune looked then it's obvious night elves descended from her, then i thought, mmm wait, who says that statue was made from real Elune's looks? maybe night elves just made a statue of their goddess using their own look since they've never seen hers. Then i came up with another thing: Cenarius (that looks half stag, half night elf) was born from the union of Elune + Malorne, Malorne was a Stag, which explains the stag half of Cenarius, the night elf looking half was then from?? :P Elune. OF course i can be wrong, that's why i type it all here, to be corrected if so ^^.

After getting that clear, i tried to read about the list of descendants from Elune + Malorne and it's kind of confusing during some points because... There are no mothers! Who are the mothers of the ppl i'm gonna name next?!!!! if someone knows i'd be really thankfull since i think that's the clue of the night elf origin. Let me explain myself:

From Cenarius, it's said his children were keepers of the grove and dryads, both looking almost like him, half stag-half night elf, but who were their mother?, and the important thing comes here... Malfurion Stormrage is also named to be his son, but he doesn't have 4 stag legs! but 2 night elf legs! Why does he lose much of the stag resemblace? Obviously because of who his mother was. And that i want to know T_T

Another doubt is that Malfurion Stormrage is said to be Cenarius' son, and Illidan Stormrage is said to be Malfurion's twin brother, but never named to be Cenarius son too? So they share mother but not father? and who are they????

Well, i guess no one will find and answer, but thanks for the time anyway :)--DiosaWoW 16:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Cenarious was Elune and Malorne's child, no one knows if Elune made them or if they were trolls, no one knows who was the mate of Cenarius, and Malfurion was his student not son.--SWM2448 19:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My theroy (One made of my own love of the lore) is that they where a spawn of the Old Gods (Who I am opsessed with) But not the Kaldorie. I mean a More feral version. One that Looked to Zanndalar Trolls as other trolls. After the olgd gods defeat they migrated to a massive fount of magic power. The Well of Eternity. B eing used to basking in the presence of an Old God this new magic fount proably was 100X more powerful. Eventualy over the Appc. 10,000 years till the War of the ancients they Evolved into their Now known state. -Agamemmnon September 18, 2007

Actually if you read in the Warcraft books or read in the game guides, they tell you. Being a big fan of warcraft lore, Im just sharing my information. Actually Malorne(which I believe is the name of the white stag, an old God) is Cenarius' dad. Ysera, the Green Dragon Aspect, and the creator of the Emerald dream, is Cenarius' mother. Elune had nothing to do with Cenarius' creation. Even though Cenarius is half stag, half night elf, Ysera is an aspect and can take any form she likes. This is also why Cenarius is basicly the founder of the druidic ways. Ysera created the Emerald Dream, and taught Cenarius her ways. Cenarius was the father of others such as dryads, but Malfurion and Illidan were both sons of Night Elves, not Cenarius. Elune was also an Old God, who like Cenarius both at some point in time helped the NIght Elves out. Possibly in previous wars that are not stated, but they are both simbols for what the NIght Elves have become. THere are 100s of different Gods out there. HOwever Elune was a true God that I guess faded away or dissapeared, however Cenarius was just a half God. Also, both Malfurion and Illidan and Tyrande Whisperwind were all students of Cenarius, just they all chose different paths. Malfurion chose the druidic path of Cenarius, Tyrande chose Elune, and Illidan chose the greed of Power. - Travinator

Actually, Trav, there's a number of lore-related problems with that post. Ysera, IIRC, is eternally sleeping and now always resides in the Dream, in spirit form. No mating for her. The Aspects did not create the Emerald Dream, the Titans did, and they put the Green Aspect in charge of it. Malorne was not an Old God, there were only 5 Old Gods, at least two of whom were killed, and a third is in Silithis and a fourth in Northrend. Elune was not an Old God, but a True God, worshipped by the Tauren and Night Elves in different forms. She may or may not be a physical entity. Not hundreds of Gods, I dunno where you came up with that...

Also, Agamemmnon, there is evidence that the Old Gods are still active. And powerful beings such as the Gods wouldn't evolve into incredibly inferior beings such as Night Elves--Revner 19:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

~I tend to favor the troll theory and figure the shadow trolls are the missing link. Elune taking the form of a night elf and actual looking like a night elf are two different things. She supposedly mated with a giant white stag... I mean, come on. Did you see that thing Cenarius's son Zaetar supposedly married and mated with to birth the centaur? Clearly these forms they take on are meaningless. This leads me to believe that beings like Cenarius are more of a creation infused with the essense of the creators vs a genuine reproductive process.~ --NightBeard 05:14, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Read the War of the Ancients trilogy by Richard A. Knaak. --Lleyla

I did. It was realy good.

But the Old Gods still may have made them. Couldn't Elune be an Old God? I mean she grants power to her folowers. Shes locked away from her people (never showing herself) and Yersa was only Cenarius's turo and Mother LIKE not his mother. -I have returned. Agamemmnon Febuary 3

# Factions

World of Warcraft is horrible because it ruins the lore of the series. Most people don't even pay attention when there IS lore mentioned in the game. Most people are ignorant of the in-game histories.

Why is it that there are only two playable factions: Alliance & Horde? Surely it would make sense to add Independent, Scourge, and Burning Legion factions as well to cover all other races.

Why are the two playable factions enemies? I thought they were allies?

Why is the Alliance always portrayed as "good guys" (Lawful Good) and the Horde as "bad guys" (Chaotic Evil)?

Why isn't there a Common tongue for the two factions to communicate?

For these reasons, I consider the Warcraft RPG to be superior to the video game in every way. --Zenosaga 14:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You, sir, are stating the obvious. It's like saying the novel version of Jurassic Park was better than the movie version. Well of course the tabletop Warcraft RPG is better! It has far, far more detail than they could put into the video games, for one thing. For another thing, you have to realize that as a video game for the masses, there's bound to be limitations and constrictions.
You ask why there's only two playable factions. Simple. The first reason that comes to mind is "marketability". If they'd had everything -- and I mean everything -- open from the get-go, they couldn't continue to make expansion packs and whatnot for people to buy and/or they'd have to charge far, far more a month for their game play service as the game would be that much bigger. Further, there really can't be any truly "neutral" factions to play because in any good game, there's always two or more opposing forces. Mario vs. Koopa... GDI vs. Nod... The Final Fantasy heroes vs. some randomly generated bad guy... It's all symmetry. If you threw neutral factions into the works, they couldn't really be neutral unless they were all entirely marketeers, such as the Steamwheedle Cartel or something. How interesting would it be to play as the Tuskarr up in Northrend, fishing and whaling and doing what they do all day? Or running around as a gnoll just trying to survive and claim food or land for yourself? Not terribly interesting, if you ask me, and certainly not worth $59.99 per expansion.
You ask why the two playable factions are enemies. They're not. Nowhere is it stated that the Alliance and the Horde are at war with one-another. As has been stated time and time again, the two major factions of Azeroth are simply in a state of "uneasy peace" with each other. Little quarrels for land and resources break out in various places that border specific areas, sure... But for the most part, these are isolated incidents. You'll notice the Alliance isn't asking you to go into Warsong Gulch... No, the folks of the Silverwing Sentinels have come into the cities asking for outside assistance. Sure, the leaders could just as easily have pushed them outside their cities...but they're obligated to let them ask for help as they're allied. No...there is no true "faction vs. faction all-out war" going on... What happens between guilds of players and random players is strictly non-canonical, regardless of server type. Unless Warcraft IV comes out and officially states that Illidan, Arthas, and the leaders of the various towns are dead...then they aren't.
Tying into this, you claim that the game is ruining the lore. Well, keep something in mind... In World of Warcraft...there is no real lore in the making. I know this may be hard to wrap your head around, but what happens in WoW kind of stays in WoW unless otherwise stated by Blizzard.
You ask why the Alliance are portrayed as "the good guys" and the Horde portrayed as "the bad guys". Once again, this is rubbish. It's all in the eye of the beholder, really. Sure, a couple of factions of the Horde are a little on the idiotic or psychotic side in our eyes, but as I said... That's in our eyes. Imagine, if you will, if you suddenly lost your mind and body to a powerful entity, fought to gain your mental freedom, gained it, found your emotions had been all but dulled, then tried to return to your point of origin only to be shunned and burned with fire. There you have the Forsaken's point of view. They're still who they were in life... Just...not quite "as full of life," if you'll pardon the unintentional pun. As such, they seek vengeance against those who've done them wrong. Pretty much the same story with the sin'dorei... The orcs, though? The trolls? The tauren? They're all just trying to get by... To live their lives. They want nothing more than peaceful days. It just hasn't come to pass yet...
You ask why there's no common "Common" language. This...I can't explain. I don't know why, all of a sudden, orcs and the Forsaken can't talk with humans or sin'dorei can't talk with quel'dorei. If, according to Blizzard's own lore, "almost all intelligent races speak Common", then by all rhyme and reason, that should be what's going on! My only guess as to why this is as such is because Blizzard didn't want things like spies happening, or inter-faction communication gumming up the works. I believe there was a testing of giving the Forsaken the ability to speak Common (instead of Gutterspeak), but I also recall hearing from someone who was there that some seriously bad mojo happened. Maybe it was because only the Forsaken could speak Common? Maybe not. I don't know, I wasn't there. The point is, conventional inter-faction communication was apparently enough of a threat to the serenity of the game that Blizzard decided against it in the end.
Anyway, that's all I've got. Hopefully, this answers your questions, or even brings up further questions I or someone else can answer. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 15:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The wall of text critted you for 100.000k wiki damage. --Ose 22:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

-- This giant wall of text is genius.

Also. To answer your question about the language barrier... well, it is basic philosophy. It would of course much too long to go into full detail, but basically it goes like this.

People like to feel like part of a group. A large group, or a small group, it dosent matter, but whatever it is, people like to be in a group devoted to a cause. In this case, that cause is to beat the snot out of the Alliance (or horde). The language barrier keeps every player in their selected group. If they could communicate with the enemy, they wouldnt seem so "evil" would they? No. Because they would be able to explain to you their position and side of view, and seem more "human" in your own eyes. Thus, you wouldnt feel it in you to PvP them, would you? What if you became friends? Then others would. And more, and still more. Intigrating he entire WoW community. Not only would it be utter chaos, it wouldnt be a game i would like to play.

So in brief, the answer to "why is there a language barrier?" is simple. Mob Mentality. Totemface 04:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

hahahah... !

the reason there are 2 forms of common, horde and alliance, is that if it were possible to understand each other, the battleground communications channel would be too confusing to understand. But, even if we could clearly see when an opposing player is speaking, rather than our teammates, the spam would be outrageous, as each side tried to out flame the other... it is bad enough to have someone yell 'Blaargh!'... imagine if we could cuss each other out coherently.

The thing about WoW, is that it is different from a PnP RPG. It is a computer game. As such, with 1000's per server, you have to consider the best way to get them to play nice together and have the most fun. I believe the idea of a neutral Faction is fabulous. But, it will have to wait. Maybe for WoW II? ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Counter to the first point of the original post: so what? It's a fun game. I don't see the lore screwed up too much.
Counter to the second: there ARE other factions. They just aren't playable. C'mon, what would the classes be for the Scourge? Goblins would be a really cool idea, but that'd pose a problem in PvP.
Counter to the third: do you see in-game sequences where Thrall sends troops to mount asssaults on Alliance towns? Or the other way around? No. It's the player's decision, and the reason they're fighting is because of territory disputes. Naturally, the Alliance wants more land, because humans are expansive (which led to the fall of the Arathi). The Horde (excluding orcs) were all here at first, too--but with the arrival of our green-skinned friends the Alliance was able to justify it from 'encroachment' to 'holding off invasions.'
Counter to the fourth: where does it show that in WoW? Have you PLAYED the damn game? If you were playing Alliance, of course you're gonna find the 10-year-olds in the chat channels talking about how 'evil' Horde are. Horde are pwn! I've seen no bloody massacres the Horde has commited that the Alliance didn't make beforehand.
Counter to the fifth and final: if you're relating it to the RPG or WC RTS, you may notice that the important figures talk but the grunts/footmen/whatever don't. We, in WoW, are the grunts/footmen/whatever. Who knows? Thrall probably picked the human Common up frm his childhood. Demons are all-knowing, so they'd know any language. Night elves...are wierd. They have this nture thing going on; who knows what they know?
If you hate the game so much you shouldn't have bought it. If you didn't buy it, which I'm betting you didn't, you shouldn't be posting why a tabletop RPG is better. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shinsen (talk · contr). 09:13, 22 November 2007
  • Easy solution - join a "Rebellion" guild that will teach you all the macros that the opposing faction can see, create an opposing faction alt as an "ambassador" for your main character, use the Neutral Auction Houses and attempt to get others to do so and try to work around the obvious blocks Blizzard has put up without breaking the EULA and TOS. :D Dashade

Wow. This is so wrong it hurts my brain. Where to start?
First, the two playable factions are the two largest/most varied alliances in the Warcraft world. Having an independent faction would be a paradox anyway, as if they were independent they wouldn't be part of the faction. Plus it would be nearly impossible to fold into game mechanics fairly. As far as Scourge and Burning Legion go, the members of those factions are hardly even sentient. For complaining about lore you are saying some surprisingly silly things. The Scourge is nearly all under the Lich King's direct control/influence, so playing a character for that faction would be akin to watching the Blair Witch Project. The Burning Legion is the same way.
The factions are NOT at war. That is simply a common misconception. They don't get along, and thus have "tussles" such as what is commonly experienced in PvP servers as well as in some of the quests. It is difficult for races with such different outlooks on life to see eye to eye on worldly matters, unless there is a great need for unison to defeat a common enemy (see Archimonde).
Neither the Alliance nor the Horde are "good guys". They are all selfish and tend to look out for themselves. You could make the argument that the Forsaken are evil by nature, however their true intent is not completely known. In fact, it is debatable whether or not they are inherently evil. Everyone else in the Horde is actually honorable and, on the whole, "good", just as the Alliance is.
Additionally, the lack of a common tongue is more of a game mechanic than anything else. In all honesty, it is even less likely that there is a "global" tongue than the already amazing ability of all current races of each faction to communicate with each other. You think Tauren know Gutterspeak? In all honesty it is most amazing that the races of the same faction can effectively communicate. ~ Bincho 00:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

How do i make people trust me site?

Hey there, I am not trying to advertise or something. Recenlty i just created a website for wow players, but seems to me people always think I am a gold spammer/keylogger. And refuse to go to my site. How can i convince people my site is safe? It is a websie that i created jsut for wow players.

-- Egelon 18:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes it just takes time to build up a good reputation. Sometimes word of mouth from others is real helpful. The one thing you really need to think about before you open Yet Another Warcraft Site(tm) is do you offer something that all the other sites don't offer. If the information on your site can be found in 10 other sites that are much more popular, you're not going to get much traffic. If you open up a forum and just say its for WoW players, why should they go there when there's already plenty of other forums out there? I'm not trying to discourage you. When you're dealing with an established game with a huge fanbase that already has a ton of popular sites, you really need to have something different when you open a new site. - User:ClydeJr/Sig 21:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
One way to make people think you are not a gold spammer is to not allow gold selling ads on your site. Also, if you don't have any unique or well presented information or features, your site may just not get traffic because there is no motivation for people to visit. Creating a site "just for WoW player" really isn't enough, unfortunately. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:01 PM PDT 8 Sep 2007
Google, Google, Google. If you want to get some decent traffic, you should optimize your site for a specific niche in the big search engines and don't try to advertise for it in game. In-game advertising for just about any website will get you ignored by most players faster than "/y you all suck!". Do a web search for 'Google SEO' (search engine optimization), pick a niche that will force you to specialize your content, and follow all of the recommendations you can find in Google's FAQ's. If you're trying to compete for top listing with a specific keyword set, pick something specific and less traveled. Targeting your brand new site for a 'World of Warcraft' search results is not going to get you in the top 10,000 hits, let alone the top 10. Off the top of my head, dynamic (web 2.0 type) content, keyword meta tags that actually reflect the meaningful content of your site, and following ALL of Google's accessibility coding standards (no frames, robots.txt, streamlined content management system) are the three biggest factors in determining your listing order for targetted keyword searches. Read as much as you can about legit SEO and update/code to your pages daily. - Pjcareyiii 16:11, 27 November 2007 (GMT)

im a confused warlock

im a lvl 17 blood elf warlock im almost 18 and ill soon beable to use ritual of summoning, warlock spells cost alot and summon felsteed from wat i hear is 90s to 1g. i get tht this is a lot cheaper then most mounts but they would have to allow mail between horde and allince if i was gonna get tht money(i have rich allince char.) i was wondering how much i should charge for summoning people??

-- beaghking45 16:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)beaghking45

A trick to give money from your alliance character to your horde charcter or vice versa is to get some grey item you get from a drop i na low level area and put it on a nuetral auction house, either in gadgetzen or botty bay, for a reiculous amount of mone ythat no one woudl ever pay and have you horde/alliance character buy it. Voila! You give money from your alliance character to your horde character! Gathorlo 17:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

First, you can transfer money from one faction to the other in this fashion. The AH keeps a cut of the sale though so you lose a % of whatever gold you are transferring. Second, and I don't mean this to flame anyone, but to the previous person who replied, use firefox or something with spell chscking built in. I had a hard time reading your reply because the spelling is that bad. Again, not wanting to bad mouth you at all, just asking for you to help the rest of us out. --User:Mucke/sig 21:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
About the above suggestion... That's extremely incorrect. It's impossible for you to sell yourself anything through any auction house. You can't, for example, have your dwarf hunter sell his Fishing Pole for 20g and then have your troll mage try and buy it. It simply won't show up on the troll's auction house search. On the other hand, if the dwarf and the troll are on two completely seperate accounts, then yes. The trick will work. ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 09:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I haven't ever actually tried to buy good from one of my alts, but I can verify that their stuff *does* show up in AH searches, so I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. Now, I'm going to try to buy something just to prove it can be done and will report back tomorrow.mes 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it has been changed but when I was a lower level and tryign to find out what I wanted to play as, this is what I did. It always worked for me. Gathorlo 16:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC) PS Muck you need to chill out. My spellign wasn't that bad, and even then it wasn't wrong spelling, just mixing up of letters withiun the word, cuz I type really fast.

To Doc, the Neutral AH thing does work. I have a Gnome parked in Booty Bay. I also have an Undead Rogue Leatherworker that I was trying to get some of the Alliance only patterns for. I ran around and bought them from venders with the gnome and placed them on the AH in Booty Bay. Then logged out, switched to my rogue and bought them. Same account. It will show-up on your AH search. Just like if I take my Rogue to the AH in Org and put an item up, then search for the same item, it will come up, it just notes it as your auction. This wasn't a random idea or something I have heard about, it is something I have done and do on a regular basis.
To Gathorlo, I am sorry you took offense to my comment on your spelling. But yes, it was that bad and difficult to read. This isn't an attack on you, though you seem to have taken it that way, its merely me asking for you to be more considerate of others when you post by making sure your post is readable. --User:Mucke/sig 17:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I tried over the summer to transfer an item this way, the item did show up, but I wasn't able to buy it because of the "same account" limitation.
Also, 1 gold is about what you will be paying for skills in general at level 40, so is not a big deal to afford if you are using professions well, or just using whatever method you use ot get gold for regular skills.Minionman 23:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I was half wrong. You can see your own auctions. (Or rather your alt's auctions.) However, if you try to bid on one or buy one out, you get the error message of "You cannot bid on your own auctions." It's exactly the same as trying to have one person's alts sign your guild charter. "That person has already signed your charter." How do I know? I just tried to by my alt's Strong Fishing Pole for 20g and it said exactly what I quoted. Don't you make me take a video of it. =P ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 00:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Odd, that must be really new. Probably another attempt to foil gold sellers that screws the rest of us.--User:Mucke/sig 05:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Not new at all. Been that way since I started playing in January.--tobarstep 15:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an easy way around this. go find a friend u trust, give him the money, have him buy it off the nuetral AH. Sharlotha 11:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth

Now, before I get pelted with beer cans like Flounder at the beginning of Animal House and have to endure shouts of "noob" I beg forgiveness before submitting the following for discussion.

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth? The reason I ask is sometimes I run the instance and it's a complete utter mess, especially at Blackheart the Inciter, and other times it's a cakewalk. Normally, I'd chalk it up to bad groups, but I've gotten through the instance with the most dysfunctional PUGs you can imagine, while other solid groups I've run other instances with get repeatedly wiped. The bosses are strangely tough as well. I've never once cleared Blackheart and that silly orc second boss and not then cleared Murmur. It's like the second or third boss is tougher than the final one.

As far as the groups are concerned, gear, experience and levels are about the same. Is it luck? Are there some class mixes that work better than others? Should I just resign myself to the notion that my priest will never get Karazhan keyed and I should just go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure?

I mock myself in jest. I am truly interested in knowing what has worked consistently well with other groups in the past. I've read the page and the strategy there, but I was hoping for more, personal recollections, especially around group composition.

Dirkbronze 20:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a recent set of group members I ran Shadow Labyrinth with:
  • Holy Priest
  • Affliction Lock
  • Tankadin
  • Shadow Priest
  • Fire Mage
Result? Couldn't get past Blackheart.
  • Feral Druid
  • Holy Priest
  • Fire Mage
  • Hunter
  • DPS Pally
Result? Cleared without a wipe. Priest was the same, mage was the same, maybe one more metal wearer than clothie (counting the druid tank as a metal wearer with the leather*300%). So, is it worth discussion to limit the number of clothies that group into SL?
Syl198 05:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Blackheart is a bitch, you really need to burn cooldowns quickly otherwise he will use them and some of them are deadly to cloth users. The longer you fight the 2nd and 3rd bosses the harder it is so its a DPS race. For the 3rd boss it comes down to having a good tank who can walk him at the right pace.
The overall instance needs two forms of CC to be smooth as pulling from Blackheart's room is a bitch with only one true CC. User:Sharlin/Sig

It's all about strat. The second and third bosses are dps races. If your dps is low, then the fight will last too long and you won't get him down.
The second boss just burn all your CDs at the beginning, tank him against the door if possible as his knock-back is wicked. Ranged stay as close as possible as he will charge you if you stay too far out. Also everyone needs to be ready with pots and bandages right after he incites chaos.
The third boss you have to kite, first back down the hall you came in, then the other way after the first teleport, go this way twice. If it takes more than 2 teleports to kill him then chance are you don't have enough dps. I've been through here successfully with all types of groups, both before and after they nerfed the dungeon. 2 CC is nice, but we've done it plenty with just a sap. --User:Mucke/sig 14:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with Mucke. I always find it better for the entire group to walk around the 3rd boss by hugging the wall (assuming all 70s). Then kill the nuisance skeleton that spawns in the back before pulling the boss towards the party that is now behind the boss. Walk him backwards North 1st and reverse direction after each teleport. North, South, North, South etc. Why do it this way? A: Gives you more time before you end up screwed. North 1st tends to group the adds together. South 1st spreads them out. If the adds are spread out, you have limited options on where to kite the boss to. South first = 2 teleports, then you are screwed on 3rd teleport. North first = 4 teleports then you are screwed. Note: this only matters if your party is having problems. If you can kill the boss after 1 teleport, do wherever you want with him... he's your bitch. --Brunpal 16:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate the information, but was more wondering about successful party composition, unless composition isn't as important as just having nicely high DPS. Thanks for the insight though :D
Dirkbronze 02:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I have not noticed much influence of group composition at the bosses. However you do have to adapt the strategies to what you have: ie kite third boss if you lack a bit of firepower. If you have great DPS, the best idea is to not move the boss, have someone on adds and pile up the damage. Best run I have add was killing the boss before second teleport. I'll confirm that you have to use all of your cooldwon abilities on Blackheart or he will use them for you. Some (such as PoM+Pyro) can be quite destructive when used against yourselves. Murmur is a walk in the park in comparison, unless you're on Heroic. It then requires great timing from the whole team. Third boss is harder even on heroic IMO though.
Malusz 17:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
There is also the idea he will only use abilities on your action bars. User:Sharlin/Sig 20:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it's definately more the people and the DPS than the particular group composition. I've failed repeatedly at Murmur with a damn good group that went through the rest of the dungeon so fast that we got the third boss just as he came down from his first rain of fire... and went through slowly but successfully with a party that had not one, but two huntards who decided that it should be a rep run and would repeatedly aggroed an entire room at once then feign-death next to the healer. There's some luck involved, but on Murmur it's more timing than anything else. Run far enough out of the sonic boom range to not get hit but stay close enough that you can get back in time to prevent the instant-deathrays... don't get hung up on the pig roasting in front of the tent when trying to get inside to avoid the fall damage from the touch... Other than that, it's 'You run your bear tank in, you run your bear tank out, you run your bear tank in and asplodey all about... --Azaram 02:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
The third boss is really a tank fight more than anything, you can do him with lacking dps. Even with good dps, a newbish tank can ruin the whole thing by kiting the boss too fast and too hard. As for killing him there, i don't see that as very possible. they have ~3k health in non-heroic, enough to be alive for a while against most classes, and by the third summon, there are quite a few of them. Plus he does his rain of fire on that spot. Any of them get close enough and everyone gets hit for ~1300, and gives him a pretty good heal. so basically, just kite him away from his voidwalker buddies, and dps him down as you go. just be sure the tank doesn't run off with him where the dps can't hit him anymore, keeping him a little out of range of the closest voidwalker is a good idea, backing up slowly when you need to. As for the second boss, there is one strat you can use even if you lack dps, and it works pretty well. I've done this with several groups, but a frost mage/hunter/warlock or anyone else with a pet is a must. First, you have to clear the first room, as you'll be pulling him here. Pull him down to the first room, and start fighting, the low ceilings and close walls will keep the knockbacks from being too bad, and the great part of this plan comes to fruition. Since you are fighting right next to the instance door, then even if you die, you can come run back in in almost no time, with half your mana. Now this may seem a little crazy, but all you need is one person to stay alive through it with soulstone or ankh, preferably the healer, as the tank may die. though, usually it's the dps that get done in by everyone else.Longbow6625 10:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Our group started like this:
  • Resto Druid (strong healer)
  • Resto Druid (weaker healer, dps all except Murmur)
  • Frost Mage
  • Shadow Priest (replaced by another frost mage midway)
  • Warrior tank
Not an ideal group setting, but it worked all except in one case. You need to know how kill Vorpil, and our strategy was south-south-north tactic. Our tank was making things harder for himself and the rest of the party, and he was a guildmate. Once we got past him, it was smooth sailing.
Despite needing DPS in this instance, a strong tank and a mage is still a must-have in this instance, just to get past trash mobs. I've done it several time without one, and had problems defeating the first or second boss.--User:Slxception/Sig 12:29, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

3rd boss kiting strategy -- I've done this many times on my warrior, when done this way never had a group wipe and never had a VW even get close to the boss. When facing the boss down the long hall, there is a bone pile on the left with a bench just in front of it. Boss is tanked on this bone pile and DPS sets up near it initially. Any VW's that get to the bench must be killed, but most won't even get close. Tank pulls boss to pile, 1st teleport, all DPS and healer run back to the bone pile, the tank jumps down and runs up the large rock formation to his left(facing where the rest of the group is), when the boss starts running up after him, tank then runs to the opposite side where the DPS is. By doing this, all the VW's get trapped kiting themselves in a triangle and never touch the boss. Have had to repeat this up to 5 teleports sometimes, but the boss always goes down with minimal grief. The Only VW that ever gets near him sometimes is the one that spawns on the right side near the platform, but this one can be taken out by the DPS quickly while they run back to the bone pile after a teleport. As long as the tank gets the path down, the VW's won't get past the bench and just pile up in their triangle.

Arena Addon

Alright I have been talking with my 5v5 team and was wondering if there was any way that an addon could be made to track certain teams in arenas.

Such as you enter your own info into a data base, and when you highlight over one of the opposing team a little info thing in the window shows up, sorta like Proximo. Exept this one shows, Rating of their Team. HP, Resiliance for each one of them as well. All this info would have to be manually updated tho, unless you could find some way to leach it from the armory. This would be for only higher end arena teams, where you face the same 20-30 teams every time.

Is something like this possible? I wish I knew .lua -- Fusk 16:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I would say it's possible, but I've got no idea how to go about it. There's a program for bear tanks called Rawr that scrapes the Armory for information on your character and items, so it's probably possible to get the info... I'm not any kind of a coder, though, so I wouldn't even know how to go about starting... --Azaram 09:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Reputation with Stormwind

Notice: This question deals with emulated servers, not the real game servers.

Im Currently Hated by Stormwind, as a result of me killing loads of NPC's there. Any idea how i can change that? -- KingStoph 15:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You fail. On a side note, there are some quests that increase your reputation with Alliance. I think maybe AV quests typically give IF rep first then when you're full exalted it spills over. --Pcj (TC) 15:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Everytime you do a quest with one of your core factions you get rep for the other factions as well. I believe its 1/4 of the total rep to the other factions. So if you do a quest that raises faction with dwarves by 400 then humans, NEs, gnomes, and Draenai all go up by 100. I could be off on the numbers but its something like that. The only exception that I know of is the cloth turn-ins for rep. --User:Mucke/sig 18:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
How can you guys even discuss about this? *rolleyes* It's impossible to lose faction, let alone kill members of any subfaction of your side. User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 10:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Press U. Click on a faction, and tick "At War"... Easy --KingStoph 23:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Well...that doesn't work with Alliance/Horde...the option is grayed out... --Pcj (TC) 00:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
You cannot go to war with your own side, only with neutral factions, and even then you can only go to war with some of those. User:Tekkub/Sig 00:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ladies and gentlemen? He's playing on an emulated server. How do I know this? Because I've done exactly this thing myself on those types of servers. While amusing, if you start losing reputation with your own faction, it rather defeats the purpose of playing one side or the other...
In any case, the question has been answered. Unless you're Hated by all five of "your" factions, you can simply do quests for another faction until you gain neutrality or better with Stormwind City. This, of course, providing your server's emulated software is functioning properly and allows for gaining reputation and "spill-over" reputation to begin with.
Now come join us on the non-emulated servers some time! :3 ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 13:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Aren't emulated servers against wow policy and in a way stealing from Blizzard? If so, shouldn't wowwiki as a whole do everything possible to not support them? --User:Mucke/sig 18:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
It indeed does not support them. So, I suggest to stop talking about this topic :P ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 07:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Not to beat a dead horse, but just because you don't support something doesn't mean you can't answer a legitimate question about it. It's still ever-so-slightly on-topic, afterall. That's just my two cents, mind you. ;P ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 20:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
It's not that "We" don't support it, it's that BLIZZARD doesn't support it. It's against ToS as well as borderline illegal. So if WoWWiki were to support it in any way shape or form, Blizzard could get upset, and WoWWiki is all about not making Blizzard upset. So, the question shouldn't have been asked. --User:Mucke/sig 18:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Odd healing problem

This problem often happens when switching targets for healing; sometimes when I switch targets by clicking on the person to heal, than right away hit the healing spell, the heal does not go through. I'm not sure if this is simply lag, or something else having to do with healing (I haven't seen this problem when using skills on enemies, but that may be me missing it.). (If the problem isn't described well enough, I'll give examples.) It is annoying because I often see it in tough battles when I'm using big, more costly heal spells on a lower health character, where it really hurts to loose that heal. Minionman 03:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Due to Blizzard not wanting any changes made to the UI while combat is in progress you may find that you aren't always healing who you think you are. I'm not sure if this is your problem or not. If someone is added or removed from your group while you are in combat your unit frames won't always update properly. This can result in a number of errors including missing party/raid members or a messed up party/raid that shows people in the wrong places. If you suspect something like this one way to fix it is to type /console reloadui. This will reload your interface and generally fixes any problems with it. --User:Mucke/sig 17:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I had the reloadui macro wrong in the post above, should be correct now. --User:Mucke/sig 02:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Fish While Sitting/Laying

What?! Okay, folks, there's some serious egg on my face here... I recently put up a topic on the official discussion forums about fishing while sitting or laying only to find out that some time between 2.2.0 and 2.2.3 did they actually add that feature in! My question is...which patch added this ability and why isn't it marked here at the WoWWiki? I feel so stupid now... ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 17:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait, can you actually fish while siting or sleeping? Or is it that you auto-stand when you try to do it? --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:47 PM PST 14 Nov 2007
patch 2.3 - you now automaticly stand when u use any abilitys that u need to for. Sharlotha 11:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Just for laughs I tried it last night. You are able to cast and catch fish while sitting down. Got distracted by someone asking questions ("| HOW I MINE FOR FISH??") then invited to tank heroic Mechanar, so I forgot to try laying down... --Azaram 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
^-- and it didn't autostand. (fixed link, too) --Azaram 04:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I have since tried it while laying down, and it worked. Looked really silly, but worked. --Azaram 05:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

why rogues for Blood Elfs?

BE's are mana addicts, that much is easy enough for me to get from the lore... which explains the mage, priest, pally, hunter and warlock as they all use mana, however the rouge does not. Why was the rogue included in the BE class lineup over another mana user? -- Aki no kaze 16:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The classes weren't picked just because "they are mana users", they ate picked based on the background of the race in question, and likely also to keep some class/race amount balance. For the blood elf classes:
Mages: In the warcraft universe, many Quel'thalas elves had been magic users for thousands of years before current WoW time, and it is an important part of the culture. With blood elves now as the magical addicts, magic and mages become even more important.
Warlocks: In the WoW storyline, blood elves overall have become more desperate, angry, and power hungry, which combined with magical abilities means some of them will turn to using demon oriented powers.
Priests: Again, in Quel'thalas elf back story, many of them were priests, so this class has stuck around. In addition, priests have several skills dealing with mana manipulation, which fit with blood elves, and it keeps priests a bit more balanced between races (Alliance has 4 priest races, horde has 3)
Paladin: This was added to give paladins to horde, and some back story was added that bl;ood elves took holy powers from a captured creature to allow them to have paladins.
Hunters, Rogues, Warriors: These three all have fit with blood elf back story, as the Quel'thalas elves for a long time before world of warcraft used a lot of archers with hit and run style fighting (hunters, rogues), as well as some elves being swordsmen (warriors), and all the other races having warriors as a possibility. To keep class balance without giving another class to an alliance race means just two of those three to the blood elves, and hunters and rogues were picked for the final game (I'm guessing because they did fit better with background of what Quel'thalas elves were known for than warriors would have.)
Shamans, Druids: Quel'thalas elf back story does not have anything resembling druids or shamans, and currently in game blood elves overall tend to look down on sources of power not based on raw magic, so there aren't any reasons that lots of blood elves would become druids or shamans.
Hopefully this answers your question.Minionman 17:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Lore-wise, all races have rogues, excluding Tauren and Draenei, which are, uh, too large, and have no historical background for assassins.
You could argue that Blood Elf rogues actually use mana instead of energy (mana tap implies this), or something in between (mana being a mental/arcane, and energy being a physical concentration) but for the game's purposes this is just energy ingame. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 17:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
To be honest, I don't know, as I think Warriors would have made more sense (we all played WC3...they had little foot soldiers, which pretty much translates to Warriors), but since blood elves have become little sneaky bastards... I guess they figured rogues would make more sense, and they couldn't figure out how mana torrent would benefit Rage (30 rage is an OUTRAGEOUS bonus. Not that I would care. I'm Horde). On a side note, you can't possibly expect them to be all mana classes just because they're addicted to mana. You'd think that there'd be more non-mana classes, as they'd not want to lose the mana. Besides, how the hell would rogues use mana instead of energy, Nathanyel...? It doesn't make sense. Energy and mana don't have to intertwine like some sort of chakra remake. --Shinsen 22:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry but blood elves do have druids in their society, refer this. The balance limitation did not allow giving drus for them however. Foot soldiers were not probably the warriors in WoW's sense as Elves always favored hit&run and sneaky tactics, just remind Scourge Campaign in vanilla WC3. This also applies to Night Elves who have not had WoW warriors in their military at the time of WC3. -- ElfElunaAlina 10:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Lots of Gold... Enought to EAT... where do i get it?

Whats the Best profesion to get lots of Gold, but still be usefull? Like Leather work would be useless if i can use Plate and what not. So whats the best to learn? getting most cash Via Trade and AH?--KingStoph 23:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I would say in my opinion, that Mining and Skinning would be the best bang for your buck. There are 3 professions that use a ton of ore and all professions except alchemy use leather at some point. Also skinning doesn't require any kind of tracking, so you can leave your mineral tracking on all the time and never miss a node. --User:Mucke/sig 01:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Jewelcrafting and Mining if you have BC practically mints money. Once you get to the level where you can build either a  [Thick Bronze Necklace] or a  [Brilliant Necklace] and you can expect 1g or 4g (respectively) at the AH depending on server and timing (weekends tend to be the best time to sell) -- Aki no kaze 15:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
echo, mining and skinning... then you decide which you will keep later on. Either will be good. Choose which will be more useful to you. Check prices of materials on your server. Whichever is costlier, fill the demand. ;> (talk | con | wh) 19:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The way the OP worded the question makes me think he/she wants a combination that they can use to equip their char, two gathering professions, while more profitable, would not fit that requirement. -- Aki no kaze 20:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Taking dual-gathering and buying the few crafted items you want from those crafts while leveling is much MUCH more useful. The effort and cost required for leveling a craft really only pays off at 70. User:Tekkub/Sig 00:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I have to put in a pitch for Mining and Herbalism or just straight Alchemy and Herbalism. In my experience, Skinning isn't that profitable, but maybe I'm just not focusing on it enough. Herbs always seem to be profitable to sell and the potions from Alchemy never cease to sell. Of course, competition in the Alchemy space has gone up alot. Also, working the AH regardless of your professions is also a good way to make $. I bought my epic flying mount only a few weeks after my first character got to level 70 and I have all the different professions among my main characters (2 level 64s and 3 level 70s), so I know a little bit about all of them. My only weakness profession-wise has been Blacksmithing which took me forever to get to 300, since I'm cheap and don't want to pay for ingredients.
I can already afford my second epic flying mount (the training is the real expense at 5000g), but I may wait a bit, because I really need to re-spec a few chars and that's expensive also. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:48 PM PST 13 Nov 2007
If you have a level 70, many of the daily quests are a great source of cash. They do have certain base requirements. The cooking daily quest requires 375 cooking, but normally takes less than 10 minutes to complete for 7g. The Skettis daily quests require a flying mount, but the bombing run is an easy 11g. Once you complete the initial requirements for the Ogri'la daily quests, they're good money. The bombing run, emanations, and ray wrangling quests are all quick and reward 11g each. The demon banishing quest takes a little longer and also rewards 11g. If you're still looking for rep/gear, the daily dungeon quests give nice cash plus a [Ethereum Prison Key] or [Badge of Justice]s. Once you get an epic mount, you can start work on the Netherwing daily quests in Shadowmoon Valley for rep and cash. - User:ClydeJr/Sig 21:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Daily Cooking Quest doesn't take 375 cooking, I believe it takes 300 and you have to have teh highest rank of cooking trained, or something like that. I actually used the rewards of fish from teh cooking daily to level from 360 to 375. --User:Mucke/sig 23:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Ever consider mining/enchanting? Hear me out--half the quests you have may not deliver usable equipment (depending on your class, of course), so you can DE them and use them to practically improve your equipment. Mining, on the other hand, is like being able to smelt your own gold coins. 20 mithril ore sells for 10g on my server's AH. The FIRST thing you can mine (copper) sells for 1g/stack, which is a huge cash boost in the beginning of your WoWing, especially if you're Horde! There's so many copper nodes in Durotar, it's been the beginning of AH mining empires since the game's launch. A walk around Durotar, taking every node you see, yields about 60 copper ore (which is ~20-25 mining experience, btw), which is 3g, taking ~45 minutes to do. Naturally, this combo i more effective if you start early.

On a side note, if he had a 70, he'd probably have figured out good money making techniques already, and he'd probably be able to grind for money anyway. --Shinsen

Also, if u are a miner and you get to know already by heart the possible spawn locations of veins, then becoming also herbalist can have a serious boost in your income. I make 1k every day using this method. But I already have my epic flying mount of course. You keep the tracking on herbs (that are harder to see with naked eye) and you keep your eyes open for veins.

looking for a new Home

Moved from the Village pump. ---Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr)

Hello .. My name is Alero I just came home to find My Guild disbanded , so I decideded to Start fresh and swapped to icecrown , I am a 70 prot spected warrior looking for a Home I spoke to a few members and they were very nice to Me , So I would like to Apply to this Guild .I do not expect to Deploy for another 3 Months and I do not expect to Step into a main Tank Spot , Can you offer Me a Home ?? Im Not a Great Warrior but I can hold my Own . and My gear is not so Bad , Not great but it works.. 1 of the guildies I Spoke to was Nightreaper , He was very nice to me..-- and if He is anything like the rest of your Members ,,, I would Love an invite , TYVM

Alero .
God Bless America and Her Warriors...

Hi ! 03:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You might have better luck on the Malowned website. You can find the link on the Icecrown realm page. --Piu (?!) 04:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, my name is Aseh, I run a casual and laid back guild, we have a couple upper-end players, might be worth you checkin us out, we are called <My Mom Made Me PvE> and we have around 45 members, if you wanna join or just get more info, check us out at This Site --Aseh 02:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think if he's a warrior specced prot he's probably looking for some pretty serious progression.

How's this look?

Hey guys, I was wanting a guide to help me make gold better. I found a review of them that sounds good, so I was hoping some of you guys have some experience here and can tell me if I should take their advice. Anyway, here are the WoW Gold Making Guide Reviews

-- Sbateman 04:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What I do wrong in creating my frost mage.

I seamed to end op with a frost/fire/arcane mage/ even to the point i call myself fire an ice. I know theres a proper sequence in talants ,i just didnt hit them right. at level 50,can someone tell me what the right tallents to maximuise my frost mage. thanx you for putting up with such a newbe question,


-- Littleoldman 13:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

See the Mage builds page for examples to compare yourself to. Without posting a link to your actual build, it's hard to give advice. My general advice is: "If you're not raiding or on an arena team, take whatever talents make you happiest. But keep in mind what you're giving up, in case some of them would make you happier." Play around with a calculator until you find a build you like, then switch to it. --Bobson 18:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
If you're specced in all three talent lines...
What are you doing?
I mean, if it works, good for you, gimme a picture of your talent line so I can be a part of this grand miracle. However, you're probably gonna have to commit. For levelling/World-BG PvP, most prefer Frost. For Instances/Raiding, most prefer Fire. Once you finish one, most spec Arcane to help minimize mana costs and some other cool stuff. However, for the most part, I agree with Bobson--play around on calculators and figure your tastes out. --Shinsen 22:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can help fixing the link on this page?

I can't get the link to be shown to the "Category:Magic Buffs" on this page: [Arcane Shot]

-- Dyna18 01:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Do not fear, Nathanyel is... over there, I think. Oh wait, he's right here :) Magic (Dispel Type) links to Category:Magic Buffs, which you apparently wanted to link to. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 16:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm I'm afraid that isn't exactly what I had in mind. I wanted to link to the "Category:Magic Buffs" page. Since it shows nicely all the buffs that can be dispelled.
Is it not possible to link to a Category page?
-- Dyna18 20:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
It is: place a colon in front of the link: [[:Category:Magic Buffs]] - however, I don't think it's good to link to a category directly, something like List of Magic Buffs would be better, if it existed. Plus, linking to the dispel type page gives a short overview of the "magic" effect, plus references the categories of buffs and debuffs of that type (linking to the categories in a "See..." paragraph seems at least a bit better to me)
A third opinion on this (maybe admin? :P) may prove to be constructive here. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 11:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Ignore ___ of your opponants armor

Im having trouble, with the new Heroic badge gear, there is a lot of ignore armor but absolutely no crit on the plate gear. I raid as a fury warrior and 154 armor ignored really seems... useless, yet i dont know how much armor SSC bosses and so on have. id like to know where Ignore armor comes into play with Hit rating, and crit rating, and now the expertise rating!

-- Point-Blank 17:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I wish they'd quit with the multitude of poorly explained stats and just give a specific number... ( [Idol of the Emerald Queen], I'm looking at you... ) 'Ignore armor' means their mitigation is lowered some. I'd say 154 armor is basically worthless; if you were fighting me in bear form, I'd go from around 22k armor to...around 22k armor. Maybe .05% mitigation lost, oh noes. --Azaram 10:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
How I understand this is that ignore armor is approx. the same as AP. The big difference is that AP for many physical damage classes gets bonuses while armor reduction doesn't. So, for itemization costs armor reduction costs less to put on gear than straight AP, so you could have more of it on the same level item. --User:Mucke/sig 18:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Macro Help Please

Can anyone give me the command you type for the Mass Guild Recruitment Macro? I'd appreciate it.

-- Unholyflesh 01:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean the ads people put on the guild recruitment channel (or trade, or general...)? If so, it's just /6 (or whatever the number of the channel happens to be). --Bobson 18:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


This ceratinly isn't the place for it, but i'm a newb to Wikipedia and so I'll just suggest something and let a more experienced person decide. Perhaps an article should be written to explain the definition of "Outdoors". there are many spells that are only usable outdoors, like all the mounts, ghost wolf, roots, etc. But there's no guide to explain to a newcomer what defines outdoors. You might not think it, but the common areas of Ironforge, Exodar, and the Undercity are considered outdoors, as is the interior of Zul'Farak and Zul'Gurub. Meanwhile, the barest of caves are considered indoors. Even the Wailing Caverns and the Underbog, where a spell like Roots would be thought to be castable. I brief article explaining the difference might be helpful. Chickamauga 20:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)Chickamauga, 19 NOV 07

Moved from Talk:Entangling Roots. Outdoors is something thought to be quite self explanatory. Outdoors consists of everywhere that is outside, or a major city's roads/streets/walkways. The Instances ZG, ZF, and ZA all are outside in forest/desert like environments. Just because you think something would fit in a cave environemtn doesn't mean that it will be considered outdoors for the spell, blizzard doesn't seem to like having special rules for a few select abilities.   Zurr  TC 21:07, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, that's not totally true... Razorfen Kraul and Downs, you can see the sky in the entire instance, but can't use any outside abilities... same with Strat, the streets have an open sky overhead but no thorns, can't mount, etc. --Azaram 02:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Off-topic, but this is not Wikipedia... its Wowpedia. ;-) --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:04 AM PST 21 Nov 2007
I think he simply meant the wiki system ;) ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 10:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree needs an article explaining it and with all exceptions.--Gurluas 16:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

+spell damage and 'lock pets

from the Felguard info it says that he gets a bonus to damage from the warlock's highest +spell damage numbers.... does this apply to all 'lock pets or just the felguard? -- Aki no kaze 17:03, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If you check your character Spell stats (hovering over Bonus Damage), it states that "Your Fire Damage increases your pet's Attack Power by (some number) and Spell Damage by (some number). -- User:Aniha 01:58, 14 December 2007

Shaman weapon buff comparison

As an elemental/resto hybrid shaman, I still haven't found consistent answer to what should my "generic" weapon buff be? Rockbiter? Flametongue? Windfury? Frostbrand?

Wiki has even conflicting information and mostly seem to be focused on enhancement shammies. [Flametongue Weapon] has it's own nice table which tends to say that Flametongue is best, Shaman_abilities#Weapon_Buffs tells that Frostshock is best...but nowhere can I find any conclusive information or comparisons on what should I use in generic situations (very specific ones against fire-immune opponents etc are of course another matter).

-- Zarhan 16:44, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

My impression from reading the data is that Flametongue is best if you have a lot of +spell damage or the target is heavily armored, rockbiter is better otherwise, and windfury is better than both for dual-wielding. No idea if that's accurate or not - I use rockbiter for soloing and WF for groups. --Bobson 01:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement use WF, Elemental use Flametongue. --User:Mucke/sig 18:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hunter Macro

I am just trying to find out if there is a way to write a macro for a hunter to only cast Hunter's Mark IF the current target is not already de-buffed with it. Ty in advance for your help. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talk · contr). 11:31, 22 November 2007

You can use
/castsequence reset=120/target Hunter's Mark, null;
mind you, this doesn't of course check if the target is debuffed, but anyway, resets the sequence whenever 2 minutes are up or you go after new target.
I use similar for healing pets
/castsequence reset=15 Heal Pet, null;
--Zarhan 08:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Ty, I will def try that out. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talk · contr). 01:46, 23 November 2007

Macro Add On

I am just trying to find a mod that extends macro storage. I know of SuperMacro, BigMacro and agxmacro, but those are al either outdated, need a few bug fixes or not fleshed out enough. If anyone knows of something that would give me this function, I would greatly appreciate it. TY —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talk · contr).

I looked around myself some days ago, but it seems it's no longer possible to extend the 18+18 macro slots limit. It's a shame, since the 2.3 /cancelform change really calls for lots of macros... ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 22:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I have been posting on various websites and seem to be getting the same answer. I know it WAS possible, and it really sucks now. I have heard other druids talking about your problem and I myself as a warrior now, have need of many macro slots for the way I prefer to play. Is this something that just started with 2.3 (the limited macro slots)?? --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talk · contr). 21:16, 24 November 2007

In case anyone read this and is looking for unlimited macro usage, is a link for Trinity Bars which supports unlimited macro storage and unlimited macro script (not just 225 cahracters). It is however still in Beta phase and everything is not working perfectly, even so, keep an eye on it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talk · contr). 06:14, 27 November 2007

This looks very promising, thanks for the link :) However, please remember to sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~) to add your signature. User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 12:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

System requirements

Hello everyone ive been wanting to play wow for a while and im finally getting a computer for christmas and i was just wondering where can i find system requirements, or are they not on this site

-- Cfool09 20:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

(Fixed the box problem. Make sure what you type doesn't start with a space, or you get a one-line box that goes off the side of the screen.) You can find the system requirements on Blizzard's site here [1]. Enjoy your new addiction. :-D --Azaram 03:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
IMO those Blizzard system requirements should be considered like this:
1) The Minimum System Requirements means the game will start. That's about all.
2) The Recommended Specifications is the true minimum hw you can actually play the game with.
3) I would suggest surpassing the recommended by x2, if possible. Then the game might even be running smoothly. (I doubled my computer memory to 2GB, which is relatively cheap and it helped quite a lot)
The same applies to most games, ofc.
"Pessimism is just another term for experience"
-- Muztikki 07:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you, but those are the 'official' ones. :-p I have 2g of memory and a 512M video card and it still only runs at most 30fps. --Azaram 09:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been running on 2 older machines until a couple of months ago, so let me tell you this:
  • PC #1 (Year 2001): Pentium4 2 GhZ, 512MB of 400 MhZ memory, and a GeForce 3 Ti500 (which is very poor nowadays). The game worked "ok", there weren't any things that i COULDN'T do, however, many things we're a real pain. For example, if you are playing with a whole raid of 25 people and dozens of monsters on your screen, the game will be very laggy. You will not like it, it won't be too much fun, but you can serve your raid as an almost-fully capable member.
  • PC #2 (Year 2001, low-budget): Pentium4 1.8 GhZ, 512MB of 266MhZ memory, GeForce 3 Ti200. Levling up, completing quests, killing monsters, etc. worked. However, anything involving many players (and therefor many mobs) wouldn't do well. Of course, it wasn't impossible, but it slows you down a lot. You end up doing things your party needs you to do instantly one or two seconds too late.
I hope this was of any help. But, why don't you just tell us your gear, so we can tell you if it's going to be ok or not? - - 'tws'talk'cont' 13:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Old computer (Pentium4 1.8 GHz, 512MB memory, old GeForce 3) worked "ok" everywhere else but places with lots of people (battlegrounds, capital cities, raids, etc.) which made everything about non-playable.
  • Upgraded to Pentium Dual Core (1.86 GHz?) with 2GB memory and GeForce 8600(GT or somesuch). Game's pretty smooth everywhere (28-40 fps; a "feat" in itself as I'm playing WoW on Linux (with Wine) and not Windows). --Aniha 02:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Defend WOW!

Hi, I am doing an ethnographic study of WOW, and am having a hard time getting direct feedback from real players. I know people bash WOW and WOW players, but my hypothesis is that this sort of online gaming is a replacement for social institutions which are no longer popular (scouts, elks lodge, stamp clubs, church...)

Anyway, this is your chance to let me know why you think WOW is a good thing, and I will put it all in my study. Let me know what it means to you, how you play, memorable moments, etc., etc.

Post it here, or email to:


-- Friendo 08:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

(Killed another box. Make sure you don't start your message with a space.) --Azaram 09:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Although the idea is laudable, it would be nice to have a few more details on the background of the study. We live in a cruel world and this could just be an attempt to collect e-mail addresses from Wowpedians. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:32 PM PST 28 Nov 2007
lol teh nub iz asking wyrd questchuns d00dz =D
Is it what you expected to hear? Anyway, you obviously don't play (any player would know the 'o' in WoW is lowercased). You should definately play a demo first ( offers a free 10-day trial) before pulling this survey.
  • realizes he's not reading the board* Anyway, we'd best just make alt emails if we're gonna reply. --Shinsen 22:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

which gem

i am on the verge of getting my  [Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer] when I realized it has a socket. Which gem should i put into the gun. I don't really want to spend more thank 100 gold on it (just go by the prices on your realm). Any suggestions would be great. THanks, Gathorlo 00:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Depends on what you are... your user page says hunter, and that's not really a hunter's gun... Best you could put in it if you wanted the socket bonus would probably be one of the yellow +crit gems, or maybe one of the orange +agility. It's more like a tank's pulling gun than anything else. --Azaram 02:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Well the WoWWiki page says it's mainly designed for hunters but CAN be used by tanks to pull. It's really the only readily available, easy to get gun that doesn't drop from a dungeon. If that isn't a hunter's gun, what is?

well forget all this. I just bought  [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle] for 950 gold and 5 primal airs. Gathorlo 03:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Much better gun for a hunter. The Destroyer has a lot of stamina on it, which is why I said 'tank gun'... stamina helps pets, but I think the attack power proc on the rifle is a better idea for you. But that's just me, and as a hunter, I make a good druid. :p --Azaram 03:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

which enchant

i just bought  [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle]. Which enchant on it should I get on it. I was thinking like +crit or something but I don't know the names. I am a 70 MM hunter. Thanks, Gathorlo 03:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

You can't get enchants on ranged weapons... Only melee weapons, unless they've changed it recently. --Azaram 03:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
He's talking about scopes. Well, there are two high-end scopes, [Khorium Scope] which gives +12 dmg, and [Stabilized Eternium Scope], which gives +28 ranged critical strike rating. I think most hunters prefer the Eternium one, though it does of course cost a lot more. An epic gun, however, should be worth that. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 12:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The reason alot of hunters want the [Stabilized Eternium Scope] is that this scope applies to all shots and apparently (although to be honest I didn't go out and shoot up a bunch of stuff to find out if its just a rumor, the [Khorium Scope] does not affect all shots. The third option is if your hit rating is low there is a +hit scope, that is a bit difficult to find due to the fact the pattern is in a pre-outlands raid. Trilless 10:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

*sigh* which scope?

I just bought [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle]. I am a level 70 MM hunter. Which scope should I get for it? Gathorlo 04:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh. I'm really not stalking you... I'd go for [Stabilized Eternium Scope], [Khorium Scope] or [Adamantite Scope], in that order. (You don't have to start a new section to continue a discussion each time, as well...) --Azaram 04:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

New mini-map blip types in Patch 2.3?

On my druid I'm noticing new blip types for humanoids on my mini-map:

File:In-faction blip 16x10.png for same faction, I believe.
File:Out-faction blip 16x10.png for opposing faction.

Has anyone seen any other new ones? Maybe depending on PvP flag or other mob types (demons, undead, etc.)? I don't have a high-level hunter to check these kind of things. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:14 AM PST 30 Nov 2007

Humanoids with a friendly reaction are green, neutral (and herb/mining node tracking) are yellow (probably non-flagged opposing players, too), hostile are red. Group members are blue. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 14:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
So the ones above are the only really new ones? Here's what we have:
File:In-faction blip 16x10.png for friendly
File:Out-faction blip 16x10.png for neutral (non-flagged other faction too)
File:Mob blip 16x10.png for hostile
Party blip 16x10.png for party members
File:Resource blip 16x10.png for nodes in char area
File:Under rsrc blip 16x10.png for nodes in separate from char area
Does that cover them all? --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:21 AM PST 30 Nov 2007
NB, the blips apply to beasts and other mob types for those who can track them. "Nodes" also covers NPCs shown when tracking, say, class trainers. I believe the friendly/hostile blips also have a grey-ish indoor version (when it's indoors and you're outdoors). There are also the new ! and ? blips for quest givers. -- Harveydrone 19:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
In addition, with the next patch, we'll see a darker blue to indicate raid members while your actual party (group) members will be the lighter blue still. All in all, quite a nice switch up.Goliath Cobalt 23:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Mob Drops

Moved to Mob Drops in Village pump since it belongs there. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr)

new patch items

Could someone add the following items to a bot rotation? Unfortunately I have no idea how to do that.

[Crystal Healing Potion]
[Crystal Mana Potion]

-- Dyna18 11:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Just create the page and add {{:User:Foxbot/Update}} to the page. - User:ClydeJr/Sig 21:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Done. User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 12:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

level 70

Who was the first level 70 in the entire world... of warcraft? Gathorlo 01:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably someone in the beta, or a Blizzard employee. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 09:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Well that's probably true, when I first got BC people were talking about some French guy who got from 60-70 in like 51 hours or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Gathorlo 13:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I remember hearing about it, the rumor I heard was that it was a team of players that switched off around the clock to level one toon. --User:Mucke/sig 17:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I seem to remember someone saying that it was Kungen, but it may be me remembering wrong :P -- Ose 17:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Just read Kungens page, and it says that he "Was the first horde character to reach level 70.". I guess that implies that someone leveled a alliance character to 70 first. -- Ose 17:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
There was an alliance mage on the french servers that did it in 3 days.   Zurr  TC 17:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

do you know what the name is Zurr? Gathorlo 22:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a similar achievement - Champion Bachi. Kirkburn  talk  contr 22:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


I don't know if you all know who Turalyon is, but he's the big statue looking straight at the entrance to sw from the valley of heroes. Turalyon is my favorite character in the entire game. If you all played WC2X you would see how cool he was. I recently read the Tides of Darkness novel and they made him look good. I really hope blizz puts him back in the game with Alleria. Funny how 2/3 of the windrunner sisters hooked up with humans. If you guys are really interested in good lore, read the novels that come out. They're easy read and fun. ,.-semper-., User:Wired/sig

Blizz threw away the chance to include Turalyon and Alleria in Burning Crusade, unless they make other shreds of Draenor available in a future expansion, though I doubt that. Since we cannot find them in the accessible parts of Outland, they probably must be assumed dead. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 12:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
"Blizz threw away the chance to include Turalyon and Alleria in Burning Crusade, unless they make other shreds of Draenor available in a future expansion"
Metzen said himself that's still on the back burner and was the original intent, though via the "portal worlds" which they didn't have time to do, not Outland itself. --   13:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Gold farming spots?

I've been aching to have an epic flying mount for quite some time now. I do daily quests every day, however, a big amount of the gold earned goes away on potions, flasks, elixirs, and buff food if the supply from the daily cooking quest does not suffice. So, there is not much left. I would guess, in the end I make about 20-40 gold profit a day, and I am stuck in the 1xxx gold area for weeks now. So, I do most of the dailys available. More exactly:

  • The 4 in Ogri'la
  • The 2 in Skettis
  • The PvP daily
  • Whenever i find guildies to join me, the heroic daily

This usually takes about 60-90 minutes (without the heroic), so there is a lot of time left, which i'd like to invest in getting more gold. I suppose there must be some places that are efficient to farm for amounts of something that can easily be sold in the auction house? Or something else that pays off in the end? I'm a fire specced mage, so fire elementals in the BEM are off. So are the Netherwing dailies, as i don't have 300 flying skill yet, which is again, what i want to get. Anything you guys can suggest? Thanks a lot. - - 'tws'talk'cont' 05:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

- I had the same problem when i played. I got up to 4500 gold and then i spent it on dumb stuff. I regret it but oh well. Try to be conservative on what you do. If you need potions and elixirs have an alchemist guildie hook you up. I was herbalism/alchemy and i helped out alot of guildies. i give them discount elixirs/reagents and they hook me up with enchants, tailoring or what not. There's alot of easy ways to manage money. I made alot selling right before people went on raids. They're desperate and they'll buy no matter what the cost. Just some ideas. Good luck User:Wired/sig15:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Kill Blood Elves on the outside of the Black Temple in SMV. Tons of cloth to sell, a few green drops, and scryers rep items that sell pretty well. --User:Mucke/sig 18:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I've made enough gold to buy 2 epic flying mounts (well, technically mostly for the training) and it helps to have more than 1 level 70, but barring that doing the dailies and working the AH is all I needed to do for the most part.
  • Being careful about not buying expensive stuff is probably the best advice I can give.
  • Spend some time researching cheap recipes bought from vendors in places where you can get them in clusters and reselling them for 5-10 times what they cost on the AH. I don't have much experience with Horde places, but IF and Theramore have a bunch of good selling recipes (mostly Jewelcrafting) that should make you an extra 10-15g a day.
  • Try to do any easy quests or questlines you haven't done as they get an extra 8-12g on average. Most of the group quests you haven't done can sometimes make you 20+g.
  • Don't ever buy food, if you don't have to. You should always max your cooking if you have a melee class (any class actually) and just farm in areas where mobs drop cooking ingredients and it's a bonus if they are quest objective mobs also. You appear to have a 70 mage, so I'm surprised you ever buy food or drinks. Buff food isn't worth buying for farming.
--Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:58 PM PST 10 Dec 2007
Slight missunderstanding: The buff food i buy, i use in raids. I don't use them when farming ofc. Thanks you both for the suggestions. I will try those blood elves outside of BT. Any more places anyone can suggest? - - 'tws'talk'cont' 19:24, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like raiding is eating away at alot of your profits. You might want to ask your guild if you can greed more greens from raids for selling toward an epic flying mount. You should be making around 60g a day just from the regular dailies. As I said, if you have any alt chars near 70, you migh twant to level them to 70 just for dailies. I have 3 level 70s that can all do Skettis and Ogri'la dailies, so I can make roughly 200g a day just with the 6 dailies. I'll admit it's boring and I got kind a burnt farming for my 2nd epic flying, but the $ is good. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:21 PM PST 11 Dec 2007

PvP hunter gear

I'm wondering what gear I should go for when looking for hunter pvp gear. Especially on the gems part. Should I go max dmg and crits? Or is it better for a hunter to go with resilience and stamina? And why off-course... :) -- Dyna18 10:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You should shoot for 300 resilience if you are serious. Also, every gem you use should have stam on it, so hybrid gems become your friend. For best results get the axe from season 3, then the armor, and at the same time get the newest honor rewards, starting with the resilience/free-movement trinket. Also, work on the cloak from heroic badges, Dory's Embrace. --User:Mucke/sig 14:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, so basicly what you are saying is go for resilience and stamina right? As opposed to go for higher AP and crit.
Why is that though? Is survivability more important then doing high dps?
Thanks for the tips on gear. I got some of that already, see my armory profile here: [2]
As you can see I got a mix and match of both PvE and PvP gear. This I use for both PvE and PvP. I'm now focusing more on getting a seperate set for PvP, and I'm trying to figure out what gems (stats) match the best for PvP for a hunter.
-- Dyna18 15:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Survivability is definitely most important, DPS of a dead hunter is 0.  [Steady Talasite] for yellow sockets,  [Balanced Nightseye] for red, and  [Solid Star of Elune], for blue, at least imo.--User:Mucke/sig 20:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, you are right in trying to get seperate gear for pvp and pve, you can get by using one for the other, but they are definitely optimized for specific use. You will get better results having a set for each. --User:Mucke/sig 20:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

About to Upgrade System for WoW, Advice Please!!!!

Hey, I have a laptop, new this year, although it is pretty low end. I bought it at the time for school and as such, I didn't have WoW on my mind at all. But now that I want to get back into WoW, I will need to upgrade it at least a little. My Specs Are:

Acer Aspire 5570Z Intel T2080 @ 1.73 GHz 1014 MB of RAM

My question is as follows:

I have the opportunity to pick up 4 GB Geil DDR2 RAM that will fit in my system perfectly, it is upgradeable to 4 GB . For $90. And I would do this solely to improve performance in WoW. My friend told me that the increase in performance would be totally negligable though, with my processor as low as it is. My question is this:

Would it be worth it for me to put 4 GB of RAM into my system to improve WoW performance, or would it not really affect my gameplay noticeably.


-- Olgaz 04:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

First, unless your running a 64bit version of Windows you will only have access to 3gb of that RAM. Regardless of that fact you should still see improvement to your game as Windows will need a lot less use of the swap file with more RAM available to it.
I looked up this laptop, it has a dual core processor and Intel GMA950 integrated graphics, so definitely upgrade the RAM and you will do much better. Right now your Graphics are taking part of your existing 1gb of RAM which further degrades Window's performance numbers. I do find it interesting that a few sites think it can only use 2gb of RAM total while others, like Crucial state it can handle 4gb.
Upgrade the RAM. It will help. User:Sharlin/Sig 11:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Aldor or scryer?

Hey, I'm a level 53 Rogue and I've been thinking ahead to when I choose my fraction in outland -Aldor or scryer.Ive been looking everywhere but I just can't make up my mind. Can anyone help me? -- Zepren 15:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

From what i've read at Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards. for a rogue its a matter of wanting [Vindicator's Brand] or [Retainer's Blade] .however .. keep in mind the paterns for craftables .. in any way a good starting point is Comparison_of_Aldor_and_Scryer_rewards. CoZ 11:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Feast of Winter Veil

first off. Seasons greetings to all and happy holidays. its great seeing all the seasonal events in wow (I love seeing cool content) but it looks like the rewards for one event are much greater than the rewards for other events. i've looked at the winter veil info but it does not look a very rewarding event (besides for the tailors and). did i overlook something awesome that makes it worth questing for this event for days on end? or are there just a nice couple of things like the hats and clothes and the reindeer buff and that's all there is to it. compared to the hallowed event where one could get a permanent mount this event looks not so rewarding but i could have overlooked something and therefor this question. t.i.a. -- CoZ 13:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

High Elves in Elwynn and other npcs

How come there are no High Elves or Half-Elves added yet in Elwynn Forest? This is suppose to be lore-wise the second highest concentration after humans for population and there isn't even one npc or mob thats a high elf or half elf here? I think Blizzard should start looking at their lore to equal it out with in-game, this goes for other zones as well too. -- Yonib92 03:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

One one comment, half-elves and high elves look exactly the same in the game, so if there are any in the game other than Arator it would be difficult to tell them apart.

Secondly, don't the stormwind guards come in human and elven varieties?Baggins 03:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope. But Theramore does. There's no way that the game can hold every single character that's supposed to exist in the WoW universe, so just because there's no elves in Elwynn in-game doesn't mean they don't exist in the lore. ---- Varghedin.jpg Varghedin  talk / contribs 10:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Some high elves are present in Stormwind_Keep and Mage_Quarter. Also look at Kalec's model, his humanoid form is supposed to be high elf. -- ElfElunaAlina 11:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
For a list of high elves I simply refer to List of high elves in Azeroth and Outland. Secondly, Kalec's humanoid form is not a high elf, it's a half elf. Difference there.IconSmall BloodElf Male.pngAMBER(RΘCK) 11:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

vendor mod

are there any mods out there that filter out what a vendor sells? Like since I'm a hunter I have no need to even see plate gear or cloth gear being sold. The reasoncim asking is because buying from that naruu in the middle of shat is really annoying when I'm only trying to buy some mail gear. He has like 50 items for sell! Thanks (sign at top this keyboard is wierd). -- Gathorlo 04:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's actually possible to alter the vendor window. Your best guess is to request this feature being added to the game in the official forums, the T4-6, Honor and Arena vendors show that it is possible to filter shown items by class. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 11:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I've got a mod whose name I can't remember at the moment for warlocks, that colors the demon trainer's grimoires... things your demons know are colored blue, things that are too high level are colored red as normal, which leaves things you can get new as the normal color. It may not be possible to remove the unnecessary things entirely, but it may be possible to get a mod to 'de-highlight' things you won't want. But an option to do that in the thing would be nice... --Azaram 02:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Northshire Refrence...? Please help!

I was walking through my town today and past the Brotherhood Winery, a local winery acredited as the America's oldest winery. Then the gears turned. I thought Defias Brotherhood and that one priest guy who wants to taste wine and the grape manifest (The Brotherhood Winery is famous for our "Grapefest"). What do you all think? IconSmall Vrykul Female.gifMantriox/T/C 01:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

"Brotherhood" isn't really a name. If it was the Defias Winery, then it would be a reference, but I think Defias is actually only a pun on defiant/deviant. Your winery is probably just a company founded by brothers. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 09:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
If it's considered to be the oldest winery in America, I believe there is an intended reference. However, I think the reference itself is limited strictly to the quest; the name itself is not a reference. That might be where Nathanyel got caught up--I think it's too obvious to ignore. --Shinsen 22:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Problems with Black Dragonscale acquisition

So, has anyone actually managed to skin these recently? I used to gather 10-15 on one run through Burning Steppes, but now I can't seem to get any to drop. A guildie and I spent several hours doing the circuit grind, and after 1,054 kills, I had enough [Rugged Leather] and [Rugged Hide] to crash the server's LWing economy, but not a single [Black Dragonscale]. I ticketed a GM, and got the standard response of "This item is functioning as intended."

Anyone have any ideas? Before now, I haven't tried farming these since March, so several patches have gone by since I last tried. Did the droprate get tweaked in a patch? -- Orion522 18:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

It is called the random game of chance.   Zurr  TC 18:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
You might want to focus on the dragon mobs on the west side of Burning Steppes. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:36 PM PST 31 Dec 2007

clockwork rocket bots

Did you know that they assist you in duels by punching your oppenent?  [Clockwork Rocket Bot] <-- click here to see an image of it. -- Gnomez 20:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

It is just attacking another robot while near the dwarf.--SWM2448 22:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Afaik the robots only attack each other with missiles, so it may be true. Have to test that. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 10:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I tested after seeing this post, and it does indeed go over and punch the opponent. He didn't have a robot out. I punched him once to start the fight, and the robot went after him. --Azaram 03:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh right, we tested that, too. The robot defends you, hitting your enemy for 1 dmg. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 15:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
If you still have them, you can make them practically invincible for 30 seconds, or allow them to take about 3 hits before dying. Get a priest to buff your bot with PW:S and fort, pure fun watching your bot rip up the other competition. Also note that your bot can outrun rockets fired at it, ive had 5 bots fire at my bot, which would be running for its life with 5 clusters of rockets running at it. oh, and woot, first post :D Whitelith 10:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
They seem to be bugged at the moment. If there's a second bot nearby, they'll target something (randomly; a friend and I were standing at the Mag'har vendor in Garadar, and it kept targeting her) for half a second or so, then untarget. They were also running around randomly, rather than staying next to us. Same action in Laughing Skull Ruins; a random person not in my party saw mine and brought his out. Mine targeted his for half a second repeatedly. --Azaram 07:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe after all those battles their targeting system has been damaged beyond repair. =D User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 07:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


Hello! I need help^ I try to write my own addon wich autoexecs on game load/ I need a ".list" console command in it, but ConsoleExec(".live"); won't work. Thanks much. Sorry for my English. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tamplier (talk · contr).

Wowpedia:Interface customization. Remember that most console commands are unavailable to normal players on regular realms. You may want to look in to Addons to see a "How do I create AddOns" page. Don't forget to sign talk pages with 4 tildes (~~~~). --k_d3 04:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

How can I use the unstuck command in addon? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tamplier (talk · contr).

You can't. Don't try to. There is no valid reason for you to need to. All the APIs and whether or not you can use them is listed at API, look up stuff there. If you have questions, use IRC channels like #wowi-lounge on Also, please sign your talk pages as Kaydeethree has already mentioned, thanks. --Shirik 18:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but it is hard to talk an English for me. Do the addon language LUA can't exec some macro or slash commands? Nothing at all for it? I'm very-very need this. About signature: does this right^ Tamplier 21:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)?

Lua can execute slash commands. We as players are not allowed to call some commands, as only Blizzard code is allowed to. Stuck() is one of those commands we are not allowed to call. Take a look through the pages I first linked you to. They can walk you through many of your questions. --k_d3 23:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


What's the name of the mod where you can whisper someone with !enchant and it give the whisperer a list of those enchants. A link would be great. Thank you!Gathorlo 20:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

CraftList2. --k_d3 20:19, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gathorlo (talk · contr). 13:34, 28 December 2007

Stuck dead in The Veiled Sea

I'm on Kalindor and was fighting near Wellspring Lake. I was doing fine until I took a shortcut that wasn't a shortcut landed on a tree branch, no where to go, jumped off tree to die. OK I died, found my corpse and should have used my Hearthstone to return to Darnassus but no, I took a moment to look around in spirit form to find the best way out of there. I have done that in caves and has been very helpful, however I fell down the fall into the Veiled Sea and I am stuck there, no way out, can't climb the hills, can't drown, can't use Hearthstone. Is there any thing I can do. I am a level 12 night elf hunter and still a newbie. Thanks -- Neekokatt 21:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Click on the red "?" icon on your menubar next to your bags, click "Open petition" (or whatever the button's called), click "Stuck" and go from there. Since you're level 12, if you've got other 10-19 guildies or friends, you could join a group with one of them and then group-queue for Warsong Gulch. If that's not an option, you can always try opening a GM petition and request assistance. --k_d3 21:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
This is exactly what happened to me the first time I died in WoW. I fell off Teldrassil and wandered about on the ocean in ghost form. Since I was a newbie to the whole dying thing, I didn't know about the resurrection options in the graveyard by talking to the spirit guide angels there. So what I eventually had to do was to cross the ocean to Darkshore and go to the graveyard north of Auberdine. However, this might have been before fatigue worked on ghosts, so that might be hard now. Still, if you die from fatigue in ghost form, your ghost will reset to its original graveyard, which would work too. Then just talk to the angel at that graveyard. ---- Varghedin.jpg Varghedin  talk / contribs 10:30, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I did this too (exploring the waterfalls in Darnassus). I ended up getting fatigue as a ghost/wisp, re-dying, rezzing at the spirit healer. Maybe you could also try swimming to Rut'Theran (if you know where that is), and taking the boat to Darkshore. :-) -- Harveydrone 00:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Issues with a Warcraft IV

Come to think of it, I pose this question: the actions made in WoW would obviously have an effect in WC4 if it took place in the real Warcraftiverse. With WoW taking place over different servers, there'd probably be two different storylines (what would happen as a result of the Normal and PvP situations) which opens up exciting possibilities. However, you couldn't really take pride in what you do in WoW if WC4 was created, considering that they'd have to choose who did what in between WC3 and WC4 (WoW) and what your char did didn't matter. I mean, of course it doesn't matter, but one of the best parts of WoW is that you almost feel a part of the ongoing struggle with demons, monsters, and your opposing faction, which is a crucial part of any game. On the other hand, if fans take part in this 'struggle' for years and years with little advancement in the storyline (expansion packs only do so much!), the game will get tedious, and the game will lose its 'epic-ness' anyway. So, what do you think: will Blizz A) go ahead and make a WC4, screwing their top game (well, that's exaggerating, nothing can stop WoW in the present or the near future), B) not make a WC4 until WoW has lost its popularity, C) Make WC4 more 'open-ended' so the fans can make it right, though this would create more complications for future games?

Or will they pull something else off? -- Shinsen 21:42, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think lore in WoW is contradictory as you think. Certainly different servers make no odds as the quests are all the same, and completable on all. In the easiest terms, a game taking place after WoW will assume all quests and events have been completed from WoW, or will be completed during that game. Kirkburn  talk  contr 00:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, but minor details are the problem. For instance, imagine the possible WC4 had a mission where you would have to kill Onyxia, who is back from the grave. Who killed him before? Alliance, Horde? What was the aftermath?
Today, this is trivial. We've killed Onyxia about forty thousand times with different raid groups of Alliance and Horde, but Blizz will have to choose one (unless they say that since the Horde and Alliance are technically allies that they banded together and destroyed him). This problem grows exponentially with the addition of Illidan's death, and soon that of Arthas.
Illidan's dead, Arthas is dead. Who killed them? For that matter, what effect would this have on WC4? No Undead Campaign, for sure. We'd end up fighting demons or the Horde and Alliance will have to duke it out again.
This is the problem I see. Blizz will have to think long and hard about this one. --Shinsen 23:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Blizzard will surely choose how they want it to have happened and write it that way as a conclusion to WoW. There's no issue at all, it's completely to be expected otherwise WC3 would have to be the end of Warcraft timeline. There's already been evidence as to how Blizzard may handle this, having written WoW events in the past. This can be seen in the RPG and also in the TBC manual, where it lists several of the world events and raids, most importantly mentioning "agents for the Argent Dawn" in regard to the player's actions during the Naxx events.
I've also suggest before, that we may see competitions from Blizz when the time finally comes, to have player's characters written into the lore surrounding WoW. If/When WC4 comes, i'm sure it will be as good as any of the games' transitions. --   22:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I personally dont see there being a WC4, I believe that WoW is the culmination of the grand story arc. The devs have stated that they still have concepts for 5 to 6 more expansions (and this was after the announcement of WotLK) so therefore, I see that many loose ends will finally come tied off. The problem with a WC4 is it's wiping a clean slate in lore. The primary conflict in Warcraft has been that of the Burning Legion against the races of Azeroth, and in eventuality that of the free people of Azeroth vs. The Scourge. This conflict has been present or been building ever since WC1 (albeit then The Burning Legion was not known to be the culprit of the Orcish invasion and was seen purely as Orc Vs. Human) I think with all that is still possible to be expanded upon in WoW that the story arc will eventually reach a point where you battle the Dark Titan Sargeras himself, thus ultimately destroying The Burning Legion, The Scourge, and the force which created it. When all is said in done with WoW, what conflict is left to expand upon? IF there is a WC4 I think it would create a completely new conflict as WoW would inevitably tie up the existing ones. However I do not personally believe a WC4 will come to exist as the current conflict is the soul of Warcraft, and to do introduce a new conflict in lieu of the current one would be blasphemy. I think we must accept that Warcraft has gone past RTS titles, and exists now solely in it's MMO incarnation. For fans of Blizzard RTS, they will need to look to SC2, or hope that Diablo does an opposite act and the RPGs of that series culminate in an RTS.

--Vicera 12:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard does have a good race setup for warcraft 4 it seems, Alliance, Horde, and Burning legion, or possibly alliance, horde, and some random thrid group like naga, scourge, etc.Minionman 20:38, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Race -> Lamia

So I was going through the art book bliz put out with the WoW collector's edition, and noticed something I didn't see that first time I looked through it. The Lamia concept...They look like half feline, half human creatures. Anyone have any info on them? Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 02:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Lamia Concept.jpg Heres the image I'm referring to. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 03:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Google search on WoWWiki only finds a redirect page to Ancient Sinew Wrapped Lamina, and "warcraft lamia" on the web found nothing, either, besides Italian pages saying "la mia" and one or more characters called Lamia on the Armory.
Wikipedia has on "Lamia": a demon from Greek mythology (side note: lamia is Greek for "devourer" or "large shark"), a "succubus-like monster" in EQ2, and, probably the most interesting, a centaur-like beast in D&D, "resembling animals such as lions, goats and deer", though they have human torsos and heads, this is probably the source of inspiration for this concept art. They are mentioned nowhere else, so they are maybe nothing more than a concept. However, in Northrend we will see the Magnataur, non-undead Nerubians and I think some other centauroid race, too, so, besides the insectoid Nerubians, they might be related. I personally would like some more NPC races ingame. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 15:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Thankyou. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 19:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Ahem, look on User:Fandyllic/Bestiary/inspiration. That old post has a dead link to them, confirming they were in the WoW art book. The page could be made... We have Mantaxxes. --SWM2448 21:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Excellent, went ahead and added them then. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Moving Characters

If I move my character to a different realm, will they be in the same location (i.e. inn, etc) as they were in the previous realm? Also does it transfer across your map exploration or do you have to re-explore all the areas so that they show up on the map? Kidburla 18:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Everything, more or less, transfers with you. To put it simply, its a copy and paste. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 19:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Quel'Serrar and Quel'Zaram

I recently was browsing the links to the information on the two swords, and the information that remains rather limited between their connection, and I wanted to discuss my own personal theory: While completing the Quel'Serrar questline on my Paladin, I paid close attention to what information and historical background Lorekeeper Lydros gives during the conversation to initiate the chain. He speaks of an age before the great wars, where the dragonflights willingly aided adventurers in the creation of many blades called Quel'Serrar, through using their breath to forge the steel, and their own blood to temper the blades. While touching the subject, he also mentions a sword that was created through the combined effort of all dragonflights to create a weapon he calls the Prismatic Blade. He also claims that maybe one day another will live to wield a Prismatic Blade. After completing the quest and recieving my own polished Quel'Serrar forged from Onyxia's fire and blood, I started browsing the information on Anduin Lothar and Quel'Zaram. And I noticed the reference of "This greatsword draws out the inner strength of the wielder, which manifests as a swirling golden glow about the blade", and started to wonder about the posibilities. The distinct difference between Quel'Serrar and Quel'Zaram for one is the color of the glow, a distinct green compared to the gold. This difference could be explained through the varied strength between the two weilders, or even the difference in dragons who were possibly involved in the blade's creation. It is likely the blades do have similar origins, and it may be likely that Quel'Zaram is one of the original blades created. It's impossible with the information to make a distinct connection, but I do believe it is there.

(In any event, this is my first attempt at using WoWWiki for anything other than my own mild amusement by reading different discussions, and I thought that maybe with this I can slowly work my way into making a contribution. Any information, thoughts, comments, or feedback would be appreciated!)

-- Eonwe 11:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Death Knights - Will they make Paladins obsolete?

I've read a lot on the Death Knights, and although I believe they will be balanced, I also believe they will make Paladins obsolete. I am a Tankadin, and we are taking the biggest hit from them. They obviously will be at least as powerful as us, and many of their rumored skills will be far better than ours, such as the supposed "mass resurrection". They also have the ability to summon ghouls which attack at random, which even if the damage is weak will be tremendous for aggro. The rune system seems to be the best for tanking, as you can decide where you want to focus your skills. Because of this, you can decide to go for full aggro production. There are skills which will help the runes refill quickly, and as far as I know there is no way for an enemy to destroy runes, but tankadins still wipe from mana burn. The one advantage we seem to have is the shield; but dual wielding is amazing for keeping and gaining aggro, whereas we mainly gain aggro from others attacking us; if we lose aggro and our taunt is on CD then there is little we can do other than consecration and seals/judgments.

Tankadins are already viewed by many to be the weakest tanking class, and adding another will just push us down further. Also, if the Death Knight has a shadow casting tree, then we are even worse off; a DK could throw off some shadow spells and grab aggro very easily. I think the only way we will remain a viable option for tanking is if they are not given a taunt, but that is very unlikely.

Ret pallies will also be screwed, as most people already view them as weak and adding another melee dps class will further push them down.

I guess the only paladins that survive will be Healers...but then, I could be wrong, as most of what I know is based on rumors. Any thoughts are appreciated :D

-- Pandem 20:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard has stated they're changing something about something for the paladins .. making them stronger or "more powerful" I don't remember what was said, but I doubt the Pallys will ever become obsolete. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:29, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I think the intent was to actually improve paladins make them more powerful than they were previously, and closer to their original vision for them.Baggins
You guys both make good points but the death knight will be for both faction so the horde has like another paladin. but if they dont make paladins better that is totally bad.
The other thing to consider in this regard is the raised level cap of 80, which while they haven't specifically said anything, obviously hints at a few new top-out talents in each tree. Just as BC did to vanilla WoW, WotLK will likely rebalance, shift around, and ultimately add a new depth to the realm of possibility to each class. Before worrying too ahead of time that Tankadins are going to be rendered obsolete by the Death Knight, I'd wait to see what new skills and talent options will be available to them given the added 10 levels.Vicera 13:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

which enchant

I know this is reminiscent of a post i made in the past but... I am on the verge of getting  [Thick Netherscale Breastplate]. Which enchant should i get on it? I want it to be high end because I will not for a long time get a better one. Thanks for any suggestions. Gathorlo 21:22, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats hands down. --User:Mucke/sig 15:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Rogue Lock Picking?

-- Tkmuns 15:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC) Hey I work overtime trying to get my lock picking lvl up to 225. I'm now 210/210 when or how do I increase my max lock picking?

Max lock picking increases automatically with level, just like your weapon and defense skills. So level up and the max should increase. --Jiyambi t || c 14:39, 9 January 2008 (EST)

First Raid

Moved from the Village pump --k_d3 21:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I just turned lvl 70 with my mage. So I was just wanted to get a few tips maybe from some experienced players. Every raid guild I join always tell me I need to get a few epics and no green items. Is this true? Do I have do have that good gear? Can't I even have a green trinket? Do I only need to have blue and epics before going Karazhan? I thought that that was why we went into Kara. Isn't Kara supposed to be the raid instance to get your first epics?

-- Yoda608 20:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

If you are in a raiding guild of any quality at all you should be fine going to kara in mostly blues with a few greens. You should try to be in the best possible pre-kara gear you can get though. Your guild needs to understand that some greens are better than many blues for select builds/classes. Of course, when not raiding, you need to work on improving your gear on your own, this includes heroics for gear/badges, pvp for select pieces that are good for pve, and questing on top of your normal instance running. Some of the best pre-kara gear comes from quests, and some of the new badge gear far outshines Kara gear. So to sum up, no you don't need epics to start kara, you will need better than your average green for the second half (blues and purples) and you will constantly need to be looking for better gear that doesn't come from raiding. --User:Mucke/sig 21:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Raiding guilds are not made up of your average player, they don't want you for your sparkling personality or your witty conversation. They want you for your gear and ability to help the raid. Without having grouped with you or quested with you, they will judge you by your gear and pretty much that alone unless you've built up a bad reputation somehow. Raiding guilds generally will not help you get up to the level to get into a raid unless they don't have enough people to begin with.
Also, I hope you don't have a life, because most raiding guilds will want you to put in at least 3-5 hours 3-4 days a week minimum. If you don't have good attendance, you will probably excluded from drops for awhile also. However, if you're dedicated and remotely skilled with good enough gear, fair raiding guild will provide the best loot (assuming you aren't a dedicated PVPer which can be close).
I recommend doing PvP towards getting decent gear, if you don't have a strong guild to help you in instances. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:06 AM PST 9 Jan 2008


I saw this in trade chat one day and thought it to be a hack. I ticketed a GM but never got a real response, just a letter explaining the complexity of keeping hacks out of WoW. Is it indeed a hack? Here is a screenshot of the possibly hacked item. Thanks, Gathorlo 01:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Thats just a small bug that occurs once and awhile, happens to me all the time. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 02:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
It's a display bug. Reload your UI (/console reloadui) and it should go away. --k_d3 02:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
No, if it were a display bug the person couldn't link it and make it work like that for everyone in Trade who saw that. The person who linked it used some sort of mod or something to modify the item ID such that the appropriate gems were shown. --PcjWowpedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!C207,729 contributions and counting) 16:22, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
While that's true, without knowing if Garthorlo caused the display bug to happen himself you can't say for sure if it's a hacked item. Could just be a coincidence, which is probable if the person linking it and Garthorlo both clicked the same previously socketed item link (likely in the same trade chat). --   17:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it's a display bug (admittedly one of the cooler ones). Unless the item could actually be consumed and provide a buff with all junk listed... which I doubt. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:37 AM PST 15 Jan 2008

How often the seal of wisdom effect occurs.

I saw for seal of light and judgement of light how often their effects get set off, but how often do seal and judgement of wisdom's effects get set off? Minionman 02:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

How do I go back and get my Voidwalker?

How do I summon a Voidwalker? I am a level 15 Undead Warlock and have found out the Voidwalker was a level 10 quest. What do I need to do (In Undercity?) to get my Voidwalker? I still have an Imp. I MAY have had my Summoning Stone, but have it no longer. I am new to WOW and still learning the ropes. Any suggestions? -- Satansfire 08:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

If you haven't foundd out yet, you go to the warlock trainer in Undercity, since you're undead. There's like 3 trainers in there (if you don't know where ask a guard) One of them will have the quest. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 08:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, Coobra, but I have visited the three trainers (warlock, warlock, and demon trainer) in the one room of the Undercity Magic Quarter and none have the quest. I believe there is another warlock trainer above that room. I will try to find him and check with the others again. --Satansfire 01:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Check your quest log to see if you still have the quest. If you do, abandon it, and it will become available again, allowing you to get the stone again. --Azaram 02:55, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Here are the 3 starting quests for chain to get [Summon Voidwalker] spell based on race:
--Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:56 AM PST 13 Jan 2008

Flying mounts in Northrend

Simple enough. Does anyone have confirmation that flying mounts/forms will/will not be usable in Northrend? Kidburla 15:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's one place where they've said they will be usable. --Maenos 15:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
They'll be usable, but not straight away. They'll be restricting it until later stages of progression in Northrend --   17:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
So thats how they're going to explain why you can't use flying mounts in the beginning...cause their wings need to be defrosted ... LOL User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 22:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I heard 74 from a poscast Aseh 02:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

How many...?

Hi! Can you tell me how many draenei, brokens, Lost one, naaru, Blood elves, undeads, forsakens, humans, orcs and trolls exists, exactly? -- Titanofthestorm 20:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Many. Hope this helps. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 22:19, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Why? --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:13 AM PST 13 Jan 2008
Out of curiosity. --Titanofthestorm 14:21, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I've sent out one of my agents to go count them for ya. It might take some time though. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 23:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! I hope an answer. --Titanofthestorm 14:42, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Knowing Coobra, here is what the "agents" will be doing. Winky.gif --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:59 AM PST 28 Jan 2008
Hey.....thats only 9 months out of the year...of course I'm not going to say what they do the other 3, lol. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Did TotS mean in lore, or the player population?--SWM2448 21:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe he means in lore. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, how odd... Titanofthestorm, I haven't heard any word from Alice in a while, last I heard she was heading to Northrend to count... User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 04:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

You sure the batteries in her tinkered Gnomish Heater were checked recently? --Eirik Ratcatcher 02:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
She's fine, I received several reports from her just the other day. Shes apparently done with northrend and moving on to another place. Not sure yet, until I get a report. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 05:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Please Help With Interface

I have seen people with multipe rows of the boxes to use spells in the lower left. Can anyone please tell me how to do this? -- Duhstupid 03:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

ESC -> Interface -> Advanced tab. Enable additional Action Bars. You could also look in to Action Bar mods like CT_Barmod ([3]), Bongos (, Bartender 3, or Trinity Bars among others. --k_d3 03:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

New Race?? maybe not.. but ya do wonder...

Just been watching Videos for WotLK. and they mentioned "Starting Area for the Tuskar" (30s)[4]

Maybe they get a boat or fly to eastern Kingdom to level up and the like. im not sure... but the fact he said starting area makes me wonder, thing is theres no way they can level in that area. as its too high for them.

-- KingStoph 10:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

By "starting" they probably meant that they're still building it, or that it will be the start of player contacts with the Tuskarr. Likely, as the Borean Tundra is one of the entry zones. There have been enough statements that there will be no new races. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 11:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Kaskala, "Starting town" it sounded like to me. Which i'll take as meaning how it's a horde friendly town of theirs we see early on. --   11:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
The a possible starting area for DeathKnights ... if they plan to make an area just for them to start leveling up......since they will be starting at a higher level than. but all we can do is speculate till its released. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 06:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Here we get a cool look at a tuskarr town, this is their starting town of Kaskala. Who is 'they'? What is ment by 'starting town'? Maybe it is just the first town we will see of the Tuskarr.--SWM2448 17:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Who is 'they'? What is meant by 'starting town'? Where are the 'whales'? When can we use 'fishing boats'? Why must we ask the five 'major' W's? How is you doin'?
They is them. Starting town is where them start. Whales are in the water. Fishing boats can be used, but only if its already there. Major W's must be asked otherwise knowledge is not gained. Doin' I be doin' good. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
By Starting Area, they mean one of the villages you visit when you first "Start" YOUR adventure in Northrend, it's refering to Player Characters first arriving in Northrend, not the Tuskarr themselves. Vicera 13:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


Are there any mods out there similar to this one but that is actually finished? Gathorlo 01:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Ratings Buster is a mod that is similar. It doesn't compare a whole set, but it will compare item by item in the tooltip. --User:Mucke/sig 16:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Orc Rogue Main Stat - Agility or Strength?

Question: I would like to play an orc rogue. What should I develop, his agility or his stregnth?

-- Kimcmr 15:42, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

As a rogue, agility, naturally. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Only Tauren rogues prefer strength, though only pre-raid. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 11:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Warriors: Strong or Wrong?

I am a warrior and I love it. So why is it that my hunter and shaman friends are owning MOBs 6, 7 or sometimes 8 levels higher than them when I'm hacking at creatures 4 levels higher and struggling. Is it me do I just suck or is it that warriors lack survive-ability due to no healing abilities except from the fury classes whatever-you-call-it that heals an amazing 1% of health over 6 seconds. Please help tell me what I'm doing wrong!!!

-- Phat Lewt: The Phattest Lewt 20:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hunters have pets that can take the damage and be healed, shammys can heal them selves ... whats wrong is that you're trying to attack mobs that aren't supposed to be attacked by yourself and you can't heal yourself. And I seriously doubt the hunter/shammy is having an easy time killing a target 8 levels higher than them...they must be missing every hit. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hes right, the best I could do was being level 22 and killing a level 24 elite, it was close to death, even had to use a heal pot after pet died, but i made it! Aseh 02:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

First of all, killing mobs 7-8 levels higher than you solo is a very impressive and extremely difficult endeavor. As it stands, usually mobs more than 5 levels above you will appear red, and any mob who's level is shown in red will be nearly impossible to hit due to their higher dodge/defense/resist vs. your attacks. Hunters and Locks naturally have an advantage to killing mobs 4 levels higher than them due to tanking pets that free them up to maximum dps. Warriors however usually excel either as a tank, or as dps. In general if you're a warrior and spec/gear for tanking, you will suck doing damage, if you spec for dps, you will sacrifice defensive stats and won't live long vs. elites of a higher level when soloed. Warriors are also despite a few moves like cleave and thunder clap designed best for 1 vs. 1 combat, and fighting multiple enemies at once isn't their strong point (hence their ability for limited CC). From what I gather you are an arms warrior, don't undercut your strength by your inability to compare to other classes being able to deal with higher level mobs. Your real strength lies in your ability to chain kill one after another creature while needing few breaks on enemeis of your own level, and when you make full advantage of your mitigation skills, killing becomes easy (demoralizing shout, sunder armor, and thunder clap combined with heroic strikes and battle shouts make your enemies die quickly. If you use all the skills available to you, you will soon find you can easily take down almost anything 1 on 1, even elites a few levels above you (at least until you get to Outland) Vicera 13:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE READ I got a ? about a code......

Ok - there's a guy in Booty Bay I think it's a booty bay bruiser and he has a little baby monkey with him. If you click on him he asks for a code, and with that code you can get things like a baby monkey or horde disguise. Where can I get a code??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soolie (talk · contr).

ironforge to a murloc its at a parade sry 2002 i dont even no wish i did im so helpless without some1 else--brenden 02:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Interface question

This will probably be really obvious, but how do you change the interface so that it shows/doesn't show the hit point bars of all surrounding creatures right above them on the main screen? (hopefully this makes sense) While playing I pressed some button that caused HP bars to appear above the monsters, but i haven't seen the keys in the interface options or hotkeys panel that says how to switch this on and off. (i don't like showing the HP bars because it crowds up the screen in areas with a lot of people/creatures nearby.)Minionman 15:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I also forget what it is when i activate it too. Iirc, it's simply "v". --   15:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I am having trouble downloading auctioneer...

I just downloaded auctioneer, what do i do from there? I read somewhere that i needed to unzip the file, what does that mean? Geez i feel like such a noob. -- Aaron Andrew 20:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

For all mods, you unzip the file you downloaded into your addons folder, found under interface in the wow main folder. You should be able to select the file by reight clicking, then choose extract to... from there select the folders as I described. --User:Mucke/sig 02:44, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Zipped files are files who have been shrunk to make it download faster. To unshrink (unzip) it, you need a program like WinZip or WinRar. I think WinZip is standard on Windows computers, but i'm, not sure... --Ose - T | C 15:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Not WinZip, but Windows (at least from XP up) has built-in ZIP support, they can be viewed like folders. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 07:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
If you have a Mac (I know the odds are low), consider CocoaZip (free). It has a nice simple UI, but no drag-and-drop support. I use StuffIt Expander, but it's kind of a pig (supports tons of formats, tho). I only use it because I paid for it long ago. I think the latest versions of Mac OS X also, have built-in unzip (BOMArchiveHelper?) that works well also, but I'm not sure which version of the OS it appeared in. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:49 AM PST 28 Jan 2008

All Voidwalkers not created equal?

I am half of a duet of Level 46 warlocks. I have noticed for quite some time now that one of our voidwalkers is much more effective at holding the attention of a target than the other. Voidwalker A can hold a given target in place by itself while the caster backs out of harm's way, but Voidwalker B does not seem to be able to do the same. The target almost always rushes the caster in spite of being beat upon by Voidwalker B. We have checked the statistics on them, and they are identical within a point or two in every attribute. Anybody have any idea what the problem is, and can it be corrected?

-- Kandrews 02:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Is one of you Demonology specced with the improved voidwalker talent? If one of you has it and the other doesn't, that would create a difference in voidwalkers. Also, If both of you have different stats that effect your damage, it might be that one of you deals a lot more damage, making it appear that your voidwalker can't hold the aggro, while the other does a smaller amount of damage that causes the voidwalker to keep aggro. If one of you has threat changing talents, something similar might be going on. (If both of you are attacking the target and trying to back away, or the same person is attacking and backing away with either of your voidwalkers out, the last two descriptions don't mean anything.)Minionman 03:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
You did remember to buy the upgraded books from the demon trainer and use them on your pet... right? --Bobson 00:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


"blinkback' is my word for when you blink into, say, a wall or a small bump and seem to go backwards from where you were before. I'm curious if anyone knows why this happens. (gameplay wise I have pretty well figured out how to avoid it when needed and where it happens.) Minionman 03:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It was a side affect of a change that was implemented to prevent mages from blinking off a cliff, the more lag you have the further back you may end up going.   Zurr  TC 03:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Additionally, it happens over certain thresholds- like building interiors to exteriors, bridges to land, etc. You can be running out the door, blink on the threshhold, and get blinked back to the edge of the doorway after stepping onto the ground. More likely caused from the don't-blink-off-a-cliff safety. Cryptomancer 21:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this a good rogue masher-macro?

This is a macro I've been thinking about, tell what you think: /castrandom Riposte, Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike

Im think to use this as a masher PvE macro, just not sure about using is full on, can you consult me on this guys?

-- Aseh 01:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't use masher macros, you get more dps out of being a good player than letting a random button play for you...just my opinion. --User:Mucke/sig 08:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Mucke. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 08:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Why don't you just slap your keyboard with your open palms instead of even playing, then? :P Seriously now, energy management and ability usage are two big parts of playing a rogue. Riposte is worth popping every time you get it because of the damage return for the energy cost (and the added benefit of possibly disarming something). I'm not sure why you have Ghostly and Riposte, but. NohraK 06:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Macros have their place. Including "Masher Macros". Usually these work out better when using modifiers. It allows maintaining one string of spells on a mob while attending to others. As for the OP's example, well there is such a thing as a bad macro. User:Sharlin/Sig 13:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Nohrak is right, even if I could make it efficent, it still wouldn't be, I have decided to remove Riposte and put on the bar next to this, its a extremely helpful macro, I found that its wonderful because it will do SS, then pop GS whenever its available Aseh 02:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

'Power of the Horde' --L70ETC

I wanted to know if there's anywhere that I can get a media file of the famous song, "Power of the Horde," by Level 70 Elite Tauren Chieftan.
No, I don't own Frozen Throne. I own RoC, but the 15 bucks a month for WoW doesn't leave me much room to buy other games. Not that I'd want to, usually.
Anyway, thanks in advance. An mp3 file would be best, btw.

-- Shinsen 23:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you try googling it yet, I just did and found many entries. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 23:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Profession Bonuses

Can a racial profession skill bonus ultimately help you in the end game to make things that you otherwise could not make? I already know that the bonus will help you advance your profession quicker. But for example, if I am a gnome with an engineering skill bonus, then at the end game could I have the ability to make something that those without the bonus could not make?

-- Kimcmr 23:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Currently races that have racials extending profession skills have no use once they reach the cap. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 23:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
If you look at the long-term grand scheme of things they are somewhat beneficial. My Blood Elf can get 10 skill-ups more of enchanting. So I will cap at 385. When WotLK comes out I will be able to learn some of the new recipes first and get a head start on skill-ups in general. --User:Mucke/sig 02:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
In general, racial profession bonusses are a boost at the start, and whenever the cap is raised, like when BC came out, or when WotLK will be released, like Mucke said above.
The Tauren/Night elf bonus on picking herbs was a slight benefit at max skill, as some herbs remained orange at that level for other players, while being yellow to those with the bonus, but, I think it was 2.2 that changed this, as you cannot fail herbing/skinning/mining at the current max level anymore. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 15:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Wanting to know which spec

I'm a 34 warrior, and i haven't spent any of my talent points, i have +/- 25 of them. And I was wondering which talent spec to be, I heard that fury is more quick, rogue-like, and arms is slow and really strong. Either way, I'm gonna carry a shield around for when i need to tank. So which talent spec is the best, in your opinion. Leave a reason why, and which weapons are good for each.

-- AtotheLEX 14:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Check out the Warrior builds page. Most people will tell you that there is no "best" spec, but arms or Fury will most likely be the faster ones for levelling. In general the assumption is that 2-hand weapons work best with arms, and dual wielding works best with fury, but there are builds that mix this pattern up a bit. For tanking, you will be able to do just fine with any spec, up until the higher difficulty instances.Minionman 15:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)F
If you plan to do a lot of instancing, Protection can almost always guarantee you a spot in any group. But it doesent really work well soloing, so if that's what you're going to do mostly, go arms or fury. And for your information, those points can make a big difference, so the next time you make a character, use them as soon as you get them ;-)
--Ose (c / t) 13:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Leveling? Fury. Doing PvP during that time, then more likely Arms. Who cares about pre-TBC instances? Forget protection until your 70 unless you just need to learn. In fact I think you will learn more as another spec trying to do protection in an instance.
The rule for warriors is, if its a caster then use a 2h weapon, otherwise dual wield is great. A warrior getting pounded because they are outnumbered won't survive any better with 1h + shield whereas a paladin would. Go fury for raw DPS User:Sharlin/Sig 11:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
My warrior leveled Prot from 61-70, but from 1-50 or so she was Arms, then Fury, then at 60 (pre-TBC) she went Prot. 60-61 post-TBC I toyed around with the other builds, but finally decided to just stay Prot. Honestly, prot is safe and easy leveling imo. NohraK 06:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Critical Hit Usefulness

This comes from reading things like "all warriors should take cruelty', or "the moonkin critical bonus is very useful for casters". From what I understand of how critical hits, if there are no "trigger on critical hit" abilities, then an increased critical hit chance is equivalent to the same number of damage increase for weapons, or half the equivalent damage increase for spells, so what makes them so useful? (People do make a big deal about criticals, so i assume there is something to them, and it may be that the critical hits multiply rather than add ot other damage increases, but this would still be useful to know.)Minionman 18:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Talents that add crit are extremely useful in increasing their groups dps, moonkin aura can even increase the chance a healer will critical a heal spell, and that actually gives them more mana efficiency. They are also relatively cheap when comparing them to other talents.   Zurr  TC 18:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I can kind of see the moonkin and other auras, since something like a small damage increase that it produces being useful, but something like cruelty for warriors doesn't make that much sense as a huge damage increase, especially if the critical increase is on top of other critical gear.Minionman 02:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Simple. Its a DPS race. Increased crit is nearly the same % in increased damage. Increased Damage is Increased Threat. Anything the warrior can do to increase his threat makes him a better tank. User:Sharlin/Sig 13:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Crits actually produce more threat than regular hits. Also, some classes/specs rely on crits to sustain high dps; Shaman, some Warlocks, Mutalate/Sub Rogues, dps Warriors, etc. For exampe, on my rogue, my [Sinister Strike] hits from between 400 and 700 damage, and crits between 1100 and 1600. That is a huge difference that no amount of raw dps could make up, and my spec isn't even built on crits. So, crits are very important for dps, you want to be careful when in a group though because crits are more likely to pull aggro than hits, so if you don't have a way to dump threat then be prepared to back off if you crit a lot or deal with the consequenses. --User:Mucke/sig 15:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm quite sure you're wrong. AFAIK, crits do not produce more threat per damage than normal hits do. Of course they cause more overall threat, but simply because they do more damage. Furthermore, I find crit talents to be much more costly than normal damage increasing talents (at least for spellcasters): typical damage increasing talents, such as [Darkness], give a 10% effectivity increase; cast time reducing talents (e.g. [Starlight Wrath]), give a 16%-33% DPS increase; typical critical hit talents (e.g.,  [Devastation]) give a mere 2.5% effectivity increase (and don't even affect spells which cannot critically hit). Many people seem to overestimate the value of crits. --bfx 14:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Depends on where they are in the tree and what you class is. For a warrior its damn easy to get +5% crit, its a first tier talent! When your an elemental Shaman (40+ elemental tree) you will end up with the +crit from deep in Resto tree or simply gimp yourself. For warlocks your either about +dps or relying on crit to proc a particular effect to benefit the raid. In other words, for a warlock you want ISB and for that to work you need every bit of crit you can get. If your position is to maintain ISB then any talent you have that helps is money in the bank. As for threat, unless the talent specifically says so threat per point of damage is the same regardless. Some classes get free dps with no threat; shaman proc; while others get extra threat (warriors in defensive, paladins with their whatever talent boosted effect running) User:Sharlin/Sig 11:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

For the instance of protection warriors, I've found that Cruelty hasn't been as beneficial in my build ( as some other talents. The one point in Imp Shield Wall is pretty much just "wonder where I should stick this last point." You could theoretically drop that and Imp Revenge and not lose out too much, I just like Imp Revenge for trash and whatnot. Sure, Cruelty is extra threat, but for five talent points (-five?-) when both Arms and Prot have much more beneficial talents... well, Booming Voice would be more beneficial imo, really. NohraK 06:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I have to disagree, take Cruelty and then take Improved Demoralizing Shout. My favorite end of the road tanking built would be . Now you can debate some of it, the improved taunt is for trash collecting which is a big part of any night, boss encounters aren't the focus for it. Not having 1HWS, well if your having threat problems then juggle some points to get it. For the most part you should not need it to generate threat, though it does up your damage with weapon and shield. You can also go with or even but note that all builds for tanks have Cruelty. More to come later... tied up now User:Sharlin/Sig 13:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Another thing to consider, as in my case, I am a DPS warrior specced in Arms/Fury. Particularly so as to be able to increase DPS output by dual wielding, but increase effective damage with Arms Talents. My gear is constantly in change-over however I generally maintain between an average 20% to 25% melee crit chance. When you break that down consider it to be 1 critical strike every 4 to 5 hits on average. I tend to sacrifice tanking stats for DPS stats (Strength, Agility, Crit Chance, Hit Rating, Etc.) and so I am not as effective at surviving long battles. My added crit chance effectively reduces each round of combat (a round being fighting one mob). The extra seconds I cut off my battles with critical strikes greatly increases my survivability and when rep grinding makes chain-killing way more efficient. Critical Strike is kind of a DPS Survival skill in that your best defense is a good offense (IE: Kill them before they kill you) Vicera 16:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

PVP Question

Ive Started a new on a PVP Server, after coming from Normal servers. Can players of any level attack anyone? i was in Darkshore when some Fagelf attacks me, and he was Skull level, and he attacked and killed me quite a few times and im only lvl 11 (at the time).

What im trying to say is... say i get my Nightelf up to LVL 70 or so, can i just wonder into Mulgore or Sunstrider isle and just kill all the n00bs?

-- KingStoph 19:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

You cannot be attacked by the opposite faction in "green zones". These are your factions primary starter zones, you can only be attacked here if you attack first or /pvp. You can tell you are in a green zone because its name will be in green. Orange zones are free-for-all contested zones, anyone and everyone is fair game. Red zones are the other factions green zones, so you have to be attacked first to kill them, or find someone marked for pvp.
On a side note, don't use the word fag in a public forum, makes you look like a jerk and is plain bad form. --User:Mucke/sig 20:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Lawls, sorry, its a habbit. everyone i know calls bloodelfs fagelfs due to the whole pink starting area and looking all "Prettyboy-ish" and stuff
Thanks for the info anyway, didnt know about the orange zone part. ill remember that when i go horde hunting XD --KingStoph 15:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Mobs and how statistics affect them.

Let me preface this by saying that if there already exists such a page, I'd like a pointer to it.

I noticed on the Attack Power page the formula as to how attack power affects a mob's damage (and I've noticed the benefits of AP reduction on my Warrior with Demo Shout vs. bosses). What I'd like to know is if there's any overarching formula for how other stats affect the bosses (STR, STA, INT, AGI). What I've noticed from running with my friend's ret pally is that, whenever Vindication procs, a mob's HP suddenly goes from 80% or whatever to 100%, which would indicate that they've suffered a reduction in stamina (as occurs with players who have a sudden reduction in stamina).

Though many of the more powerful mobs are immune to Vindication, I still think this would be generally helpful knowledge.

Or maybe I just have a fixation with numbers. O:

-- NohraK 04:02, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Mobs are all affected differently depending on their level and eliteness. There is no way to measure it and they have not told us any of this information.   Zurr  TC 04:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's unfortunate. Thanks anyways though.

-- NohraK 04:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Guild Tax

My guild and I was talking about how the new repair function was wrecking havoc on the guild gold supply and I came up with an idea. Guild tax. Allow the GM of a guild to put a tax on all gold gathered from A) Mobs, B) Auction House, C) Quests, or some combination of all those mentioned. This would be anywhere from 1-10% tax and would be deposited directly into the guild bank to be used for repairs and such. Now why this might sound bad a large guild could get a large supply of gold very quickly from doing only 1% of tax. Lets say that my GM has only option A enabled and is taxing me as I do some random grinding. The mobs I am grinding drop 15 silver or so each. For every kill I do 15 copper is deposited into the guild bank and I still get 14s 85c. Do this enough times and pretty soon you havea sizable sum in store.

Any suggestions? -- Iwishiknew 05:02, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it better to ask for donations of items and then charge for those items, at a significantly discounted price, when people need them. Why? Because the tax system only works for people who are honest. If its plug in based they can't unload the plug in. Still, if your guild is having a problem with the repair situation then turn it off. Put real limits on it. I always looked at gold in the guild bank as a method to buy mats, not fix someone's armor. User:Sharlin/Sig 13:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't realy thinking about an addon that did this, but maybe an addition to patch 2.4 or WotLK. And for the real limits, sometimes that doesn't work if not enough people are donating or you aren't getting sellable items from raids. Iwishiknew 18:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
If it is not working then your limits are wrong. In other words, if your operating at a deficit then either increase revenue or decrease expenditures. Decreasing expenditures can mean cutting people off. Usually its one or two bad apples. Frankly, outside of the tanks, especially the main tank, I don't think the guild should be paying repairs. User:Sharlin/Sig 12:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Sharlin. Your guild set up your guild bank totally wrong. Your guild master should be able to assign specific ranks to have access to gold for repair and not just any random guild member. The tax idea seems unenforceable unless you're suggesting Blizzard implement some mechanism in the game. People hate taxes in RL, so I doubt they would be too happy in-game. Also, an in-game mechanism would just allow unscrupulous guild leaders yet another way to screw a bunch of people and abscond with the loot in the dead of night. Sounds bad to me. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:00 PM PST 12 Feb 2008

Price Add-on

Evening all, this should be an Easy one.

Im looking for an Addon that shows the price of items i pick up, showing vendor price, AH Price (for the server) and so on. ive came across it before and i cant remember what the hell it was called and thus cant find it O.o

-- KingStoph 15:13, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Auctioneer and Bean Counter.Minionman 16:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I use both but could never figure out what bean counter did. What does it do? Iwishiknew 18:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it displays uses and prices for various locations, though I had just downloaded the entire set of programs and never really figured out which is which.Minionman 23:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
And the documentation [5] is very nearly nonexistent... --Azaram 05:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


OK, what's the deal with the horn in Ironforge ??? Is it on an interval ? Or has something happened when it goes off ???? -- Kid cat dog 04:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

What horn are you talking about...the hourly chime? User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 06:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
All cities have some sort of sound that goes off when it hits an hour, in Ironforge it's a horn, In Thunder Bluff i think it is a deeper horn, in stormwind I think it is a bell, etc.Minionman 19:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
And a few towns. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Thunder Bluff has a drum in the top of the flight tower (You can't see it, but it's loudest up there). I've heard Orgrimmar's, but can't remember what it is now. Undercity, I don't know at all. Does Shattrath have one? And what time do they all keep? It doesn't seem to be server time, at least in the case of my server. --Azaram 08:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Undercity like Tarren Mill is a clock type of bell sound. I have no idea about Darnassus... an owl hooting maybe LOL. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 04:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Raid or PvP

Sorry if I screw this up, this is my first post here. I LOVE this site by the way, keep up the good work!!

Anyway, now to my question. I am about to hit my first level 70 proabably today or tomm. And I have semi alright gear mostly blues with a few greens here and there. What I want to know is when I start grinding my gear for Epics, should I concentrate on PvP'ing first to get gear, or should I concentrate on raiding first and then worry about PvP stuff later?? Thanks in advance for the advice.

-- Groovin 14:05, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

For the most part...the PvP gear matches the Raid gear, not all of it mind you, but eh... If you prefer to raid and earn the gear with others then raid...if you prefer to PvP and grind points...then PvP. But if you haven't started doing the lv70 5mans, you should probably do that first...if you want to raid, to make it easier. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
For most classes, PVP gear is for PVP, PVE gear is for PVE. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part this holds true. The reason being is that stats like resilience and an over-abundance of stamina are common for pvp gear, which generally speaking don't help you pve, and vice versa. If you plan on raiding then you need to focus on dungeons and quests and then fill-in holes with pvp gear. My suggestion for a raiding toon is to do all the quests you can by yourself, get into groups for tough quests and dungeons, and pvp when you can't get a group and are out of solo content. If you plan on going all or mostly pvp, then pvp your guts out, its guaranteed gear. This isn't to say that pvp pieces aren't good for pve either. My rogue has both season 2 arena weapons as they are the best that I can possibly get atm, but I am a raider at heart.
Also, if you want to do both, do what you can when you can and get 2 sets of gear, my main has a full set of T4 equivilent gear as well as a nearly full pvp set. --User:Mucke/sig 22:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Other than weapons PvP gear isn't great raid gear. Spell Penetration and Resilience really don't mean jack-shat in instances. I'll go with people in blues before I'd go with most welfare-epic'd players. User:Sharlin/Sig 12:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
First I'll admit that I don't know a ton about either raiding or PvP, but I've done more PvP than raiding. I do know and talk to some very experienced PvPers and raiders both (mostly a High Warlord shaman who's guild is farming Illidan, but I also know some other folks). When people talk about PvP gear is needed for PvP and PvE gear is needed for PvE they are usually talking about the extreme end of the range. What I mean is, if you're a main tank for raiding, you're probably going to want specialized PvE gear for that or if you're a hardcore Arena person, you're gonna want the best gear for that goal (like if you're going for the super-fast flying epic). However, if you can find some non-stick-up-the-butt people to group with for PvP or raiding there is alot of hybrid gear that will do well enough for both or be slightly better for one purpose, but passable for the other.
Having done a little research, I would say PvP gear will work well enough for many PvE purposes and is alot easier to get to fill out your gear than raiding. Raiding requires much more coordination and time, plus people from my experience are much more sensitive about whether you have the minimum gear to even get into raids, so you might not even have the opportunity. PvP will give you good gear over time and allow you to meet raid minimums in most cases, but give you alot more flexibility with play time to get that gear. 5v5 arena is the fastest way to get good arena gear, but you can also do it with 3v3 and 2v2. Often it is easier to keep up a good rating with less than 5v5.
OK enough blather, but I recommend PvP for filling out your gear unless you are in a large, helpful guild who doesn't mind running alt raids to help people gear up for the main raid group. To me, PvP drama is much preferrable to PvE drama. In my opinion with PvP you don't worry about DKP or drop rotation, or most of the BS politics that comes with raiding and there is definitely less luck involved when it comes to getting gear. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:46 PM PST 12 Feb 2008

which prof is the better $$$ maker

Ok, here is my dilemma. I am about to hit 40, probably a week or so. Butttttttt...... I only have 45g. And I am a 213 ench. and I need to get some major moolah. Soo, which prof is best for making money? Skinning or mining?

-- AtotheLEX 03:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Both make really good money, for quick fast money I'd go with Skinning. For money worth it in the long run, go with mining. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 06:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Simple, have two gathering skills. Mining and Skinning come to mind as the best combination. Having a production skill before 60 is just wasting money. User:Sharlin/Sig 12:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd beg to differ, really. JC offers some nice trinkets at levels before you can get any quest/dungeon reward ones, and tailoring has some good low level BoP cloth. Plus, it tends to be less maddening to level professions as you go. NohraK 03:11, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Talking about money makers here...JC may make money...requires mining (or lots of gold). He's looking for a quick money maker aka a gathering profession. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 04:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Jewelcrafting makes money if you are at 355 and can source Adamantite for a good price. Flip the carved gems back onto AH. The problem of course is getting stacks of Adamantite for less 22g. If you want a profession for making useful items and provides gathering money hand over fist go engineering and suck clouds all day User:Sharlin/Sig 16:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Lunar Festival Gear

With the current event of Lunar Fesitval, ive gone and got myself the Black pant suit, problem is, i dunno what to wear with it... im lvl 16 at hte moment so limited on gear. what would people recomend to make the suit more fuller...

And also whats a Macro to remove armor?

Cheers -- KingStoph 11:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

To tell you the truth...I don't think anything can truly go with the festival suits.......
As for the macro to remove armor...thats just silly...use Outfitter, so much better. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 16:51, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Outfitter works like a Charm. does exactly what i want. which is change gear when i enter a city. as for stuff that matchs the Suit. i just got some Sandles from the Cloth armor guy in Darnasusususs. and it seems to work allright. --KingStoph 23:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Macro Conditionals "button" NOt work.

/cast [button:2] corruption; Seed of Corruption

I want Right-click+"G" button cast "corruption", "G" button cast "Seed of Corruption". but not work. -- G2m agent 19:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[button:2] doesn't work that way, it isn't toggled by holding down the right mouse button, it reacts to clicking the action button on your screen with the right mouse button.
However, you can use e.g. [modifier:alt] to use that macro when pressing Alt+G (unless you bound Alt+G to another key already, I think that other key would be toggled instead of the G one) ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 16:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

druid form tabs

Is there any way to rearrange the druid form tabs above the bar? Because aquatic form comes before cat form, and that is really annoying to me. -- Druidor 19:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Not with how WoW is setup. However, there might be a mod out there that could allow you to do so, I myself haven't seen such a mod, only a mod that allows you to move the form buttons some where else (but not to rearrange). User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
what happens if I get aquatic form after cat form? is cat form still ahead of aquatic? Druidor
Yes, it has a predetermined spot on the tabs. Even if you were to learn them out of order, the tab will simply move the others over and take its rightful place. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Only way to change it is with a Bar mod, such as Bartender, Trinity, or others. --User:Mucke/sig 16:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Ask about the hunter pet

Hi, i need to know the formula to calculate my pet's damage, sorry if this isn't the place for asking this but i couldn't find anyone else.Please is urgent! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Patisko (talk · contr).

Something that is urgent or needed to know asap, should be asked in forums...this isn't a forum. I myself don't know the formula, nor do I see it here on WoWwiki. I recommend the Hunter forums User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 05:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Or Petopia, the one stop source for all things hunter. --Sky (t | c | w) 08:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Resurrection bug

Today I was wandering through Burning Steppes and I got killed. However instead of resurrecting at the nearest graveyard (Flame Crest), I resurrected at the location of my corpse. Then, once I pressed the "Resurrect" button, I resurrected and instantly teleported (whilst still alive) to Flame Crest. I didn't use the spirit healer or get the 25% penalty. Is this a known bug? Kidburla 19:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

It is caused by lag.   Zurr  TC 19:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Level ranges

Is there anywhere where I can get definitively the level range for each instance? For example, looking at Ragefire Chasm, I have got 4 different results from different sources:

Now, with these 4 different maximum levels, how do I know which is correct? Or is there some 5th source which always gives the definitive answer? (To avoid confusion, I define the level range to be the minimum and maximum levels at which you can use the LFG/LFM panel for the instance in question). Kidburla 00:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The different levels are probably based on different things. Some level ranges may be when you can enter them in the LFG system, some might be the enemy level range, possibly item drops, or something else. (Though some information that the ranges are based on is likely wrong.) Minionman 01:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Best Pet? (at lvl 40)

Whats the best pet at lvl 40? I already have a lvl 39 bear, but am looking for something new. I was thinking about somethign that can warp...

-- Brethouse 05:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Well you can forget about anything that warps at 40 since Warpstalkers are only in the outlands, starting around lv62. And best pet is really players option. One pet might be perfect for someone, but not someone else. And it depends on if you mean for tanking or dps.
For instance, I prefer the Boar... cause it's good for soloing, can help during raids, and is very easy to care for (feed) since it eats bread... my pet boar (Skully) loves the cinnabuns. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 08:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Boars eat anything, which make them really easy to feed. Cheap cheese from vendors, or conjured bread from friendly mages... Petopia's pets by level [6] will show you what is around your level if you want to pick up a new one now. I personally have a boar (Newton) for my main running around pet, and one of the black with white stripes tigers from up above Skettis for DPS... I've got a wolf (Ironjaw from the quest in Terrokar) as well but he's sort of stuck at level 64 and doesn't have much to make him worth dragging up to 70. He's pretty, but that's about it. Decide what you want to do with the pet, then look for one that fits. Bears, turtles and boars make good tank pets. Cats make good DPS. Personally, I think ravagers fold like cheap suits when something gives them a dirty look, even with great armor/stamina trained. And they're ugly. :-p --Azaram 08:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Suposably scorpians are really good if ur doing pvp cause they haave soem kind of mana burn--Maulblood 13:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

And Don't forget, a lot of the beasts that you can tame stop appearing around level 40 ... crabs and I guess thats it...a few others stop around level 50...and after 60 you won't be seeing most of the best tanking pets, boars, bears, and even turtles (mid-50s). So what ever you decide on stick with it. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 19:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I may offer my piece of cheese: My hunter has since 30 a boar, bellygrub which i renamed to Minchen. the best thing the boar has is "Charge". i put hunters mark on the mob, let minchen charge and start the shoot-sequence with aimed shot. The Boar is, as i see it, the best defensive Pet, wich means the best pet for marks hunter. the main argument: charge ;) just send it in and you dont stand any chance to pull aggro :)
the only problem: good looking boars are around level 50, or, for me the best looking boar is bellygrub, level 24 :s if you dont care for look, the highest boar you get is level 60
If you are Beastmaster specced, then probably a raptor or a ravager suits you best, as they have a decent dps but also some additional armor
again for PvP you may take another pet, a scorpion (poison) or a boar (charge: disrupt & 1sec no move) due to movement impairing effects. Alliance 15.gifHJT (t/c) 10:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Warrior Grinding

i have a lv 35 orc warrior and 100g i really want to get to 40 quickly to get a mount but because of work i can only get on 2hours a day where should i grind?

-- Maulblood 13:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

First off, do not "grind". Quest, Quest, and Quest some more. There are some free guides, perhaps even here, and there are plug ins that can tell you want zones are appropriate for your faction and level. STV comes to mind, just don't stay there. In other words, knock out all the early EASY quests you can and move into another zone for awhile. I would tend to think Swamp of Sorrows has some leveling opportunities for Horde. What the Thousand Needles area?
Your key to leveling fast is preparation. Find out where the quests are for your level range that you can do. Then figure an order out to do them in that requires the least amount of travel. I recently pulled a brand new Warrior (alliance) from 1 to 40 in 47 hours played time. I figure I am running pretty slow but I am questing away just fine. User:Sharlin/Sig 16:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

ok ty i jsut hit 36 yesterday im questin in arati headed to sarrows once i get to 37-- Maulblood 20:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Tel Abim spotted?

So I was flying from Theramore to Gadgetzan, and since the patch (2.3) I can see a landmass waaayyy to the east. I've flown this route for... well, literally years, and have long had my clipping planes way out to see geography, and this is the first time I saw it. Really, it looks like unsculpted new landmass (not unlike the plateau south of ungoro, east of silithus), it was very flat and brick-like. Having dug through the wiki for info, it seems like it could be Tel Abim. At this point, I can't even speculate what implications there are to new landsculpting in Azeroth.

-- Cryptomancer 21:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

At what point are you seeing this landmass ... during the flight, which zone (currently in/near)? User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
During the flight, somewhere between Dustwallow and Tanaris. Once I've left Theramore, it's all open sea to me, hard to tell which zone I'm in till I can spot Steamwheedle port. Cryptomancer 05:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
You can open your map during a flight you know...and your minimap usually shows either a subzone or zone that you're in. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:27, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but that's irrelevant. Or maybe not: be in Dustwallow. Open the world map, zoom to Kalimdor, dustwallow, and go back and forth. There's one very large island, which other sources call Tel Abim, which is on the world map in a place that doesn't show up on the zone map. And that's where I've seen some polygon landmass being rendered, which is the relevant topic I'm trying to discuss here. Cryptomancer 19:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Roleplaying locations and Guild HQs

Does anyone have suggestions for places that would be good to have a guild meeting or roleplay?

Inns are too random, and Townhalls often have Quest givers?

Quiet lairs I've spotted are the house on Cutthroat Alley in Stormwind, inn basements. -- Elsabeth 11:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Couple of towers in Elwynn Forest are usually empty. User:Sharlin/Sig 11:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Behind the warrior trainers in org if u keep walkin there is a huge empty spot behind the building which i sreally sweet or u could use the sewers in UC--Maulblood 21:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I once held a meeting in the Ring of Valor in Org, it currently serves no purpose and tends to be vacant. We scrapped the idea of meeting there in the future due to the extensive distractions of the trade channel. I've heard guilds use Fray Island as a meeting location, and is only the hub of one quest that I am aware of for warriors. Other spots include the abandoned cave in Stonetalon Mts., The Dam in Wetlands, Grim Batol Gates (if you like making your guildies work for it), there's lots of places.... Vicera 11:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Question in Reference to Dath Remar Server site

My name is Eccles, mentioned in the Fads section for being the first to have a Green Triangle placed above me due to a wipe. I have no doubt in my earlier days I have caused such a thing, but my memory eludes me. To anyone who could enlighten me on this, I'd be very grateful. Specifically Ltb0619 who wrote the piece.

-- Eccles 12:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

My apologies, first post, wrong section. please ignore.

-- Eccles 12:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Paladin mounts

I am making a Draenei paladin and i want to make sure what is the free mount that they get? is it their racial mount or can you pick? and do you get free flying mounts? please help --Jacman02 21:33, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

They get the pally mount, and a chain of quests to get the epic pally mount. And no one gets free flying mounts. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:49, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Druids? --Azaram 02:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
First of all, Flight form is a form, not a mount; and second, they may not pay as much as the rest of us (for the 60% faster) but it's not free. It's a trained ability that they learn from a trainer at the price of other skills around that level. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 05:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, us level 70 druids know that. :-p The difference between 'a mount' and 'flight form' is small, though. It's a way to fly from here to there. It's cheaper for druids and comes at an earlier level, but that's pretty much all the difference there is. And, if you want to be picky about it, nobody gets a free mount at all. Paladins and warlocks have to pay training for theirs just like druids do for flight form. --Azaram 11:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Hate to correct you again, but the first mount paladins and warlocks receive at 40 are completely free, and come with training ... just like when druids learn their first flight form. Only training paladins/warlocks have to 'buy' is the epic land, flight, and epic flight. While the only training druids have to 'buy' is land, epic land, and epic flight. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 18:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I think by 'training', he meant at the class trainer, for the cost of a normal skill at that level, not the riding trainer. ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 19:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Who 'he', we both used the word he, or Azaram he? User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 19:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The indenting implies I'm replying to you Winky.gif ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 19:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, in that case, nope I think he means the riding trainer, cause you don't learn the ability to summon a mount as a paladin/warlock from a trainer at all. They are both quest rewards. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Maybe at one point, but now you buy the Felsteed from a trainer for 90s. That's how my 62 warlock (who I was going to link to on the Armory, but it isn't working at the moment) got hers a few days ago. So what I meant was 'go to the warlock trainer and click on 'summon felsteed' and then click 'train'. "Pay training for theirs just like druids do for flight form". Apparently a lot of people complained about the free mounts. --Azaram 04:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
So......the lv40 mount quest is no longer available?... =( Eh, 90s isn't that much and it would make it easier (least for the alliance) than having to travel all the way to ratchet (for locks) for the quest. Must have been a 2.3, 2.3.2, or 2.3.3 waited till 62 before getting a mount? User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 04:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
No, she was 40 a few days ago. Now she's 62. No, 90s isn't much, but you made a big deal of the 5g or so that druids pay, so... --Azaram 05:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
8g ~ User:Nathanyelŋɑϑ 14:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't make a big deal about it, all I said was they didn't get it for free....and now since whatever patch that changed the lv40 mounts for locks/pallys, you are correct about no mount is free...anymore. /sigh ... now if they only did that for the lv60 lock/pally mounts, a choice rather, they can either do the quests and spend maybe half a normal person would, or buy their dreadstead summon ability at (lets say) the price of epic land riding training. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 05:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Honestly, as big a flatbread as it is to get a group for Scholo, I'd rather do the quests... feels more like part of the game, rather than 'Go forth into the world, young warlock, and bring me...let's say 150g. And a case of beer. And a sammich. But no mayo lest I shatter your soul!" I loved the druid questline for epic flight form, as it made you use every aspect of being a druid, and felt like you were accomplishing something in character, instead of just killing 69,105 random monsters until you had enough money. Right up until you had to get all the rep with Lower City... yes, it's their dungeon and it's bird themed, but it still seemed kind of silly. --Azaram 22:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Noob Paladin Question!

Hi there, I am a casual player - 29 Blood Elf Paladin. I have been reading the talent builds on this site to help me, and I am trying to spec into Retribution with a bit of holy (mostly soloing quests (or small group).

After reading the advice on Wowwiki it seems a lot of Retribution Paladins prefer Seal of Command to Seal of Righteoussness (I hear very little mention of players using Seal of Righteoussness after early level or maybe for a tank with sword and board).

Anyway after testing them both out for a while it seems to me that Seal of Righteousness does more damage. I haven't really figured this out in any scientific way, just watching the damage fall. Right now I am fighting with the Blood Tempered Ranseur, dealing about about 89-110 weapon damage per hit. I use judgement of crusader to buff the holy damage for both seals. Seal of Righteoussness tends to add about 50-70 holy damage to every hit, and Seal of Command adds about 110 holy damage once in a while (less then once every two hits definately - seemed to be more like once every 5-6 hits - at my level causing significanly less damage then Seal of Righteoussness)

So just from this anectotal evidence it appears that Seal of Righteoussness does much more damage (even considering Seal of Command is supposedly better with 2-handed weapons) (also I haven't yet gotten the talent for buffing Seal of Righteoussness but I will depending on what people suggest!) the only advantage to Seal of Command I can see is that it does double damage when you release the seal while the target is stunned (for my level Seal of Righteoussness does about 100 damage when judged, Seal of Command also does about 100, 200 if target is stunned) I suppose also Seal of Command can critical (aided by Fanatacism) and Seal of Righteoussness cannot.

Anyway any help with this would be great, I am sure I might be missing something, as those Retribution specced paladins can't all be wrong!

This is the spec I was thinking (probably looks a little unorthodox, but it buffs all the abilities I tend to use):]

-- Nebuchadnezzar 18:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. [Seal of Command] has a higher damage output provided you use [Judgment] each time it is up. [Seal of Righteousness] is actually better for threat when tanking , but you tend to see it more often as Protection and Holy paladins never go up the retribution tree. Now this method with [Judgment] is much more mana intensive so you might first want to judge [Seal of Wisdom] when it becomes available as it is not overwritten by command User:Sharlin/Sig 10:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Does Judgement of Wisdom overwrite, or get overwritten by Judgement of The Crusader? And do you wait for the Seal of Command to almost expire before judging? or do you Judge as often as possible? What I have been doing is judge Crusader, then immediately cast Seal of Righteousness (or Command) then it takes 8 seconds or somthing for the Judgement ability to cooldown and I use it again right away, I find by this time the mob is mostly dead anyway. So basically I use the judgement ability as often as possible, I am wondering should I wait more for the Seal to be up? this would definately save on mana but seems to do less damage overall. - neb
Well Crusader overwrites Wisdom as it leaves a debuff on the mob. You can determine this by looking under the mob's portrait where you should see an icon for the crusader debuff. As far as judging, do it every time it is up for maximum effect. If you have mana issues and things are dieing fast enough then judge it right before the seal expires. I would tend to look at it this way, if its a caster get the dps on him as fast as possible regardless of mana costs User:Sharlin/Sig 17:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Finally got back to your spec.
First thoughts, get seal of command. It is always good to broaden your arsenal and it works great when wielding 2h weapons which you took the talent for to increase their damage! Second, Improved Blessing of Wisdom and Improved Blessing of Might. Why? You only have both if you plan on needing one to buff someone else, you certainly cannot use both on yourself. Don't undervalue Repentance for solo work. Being able to interrupt a caster, its real use, is something not to be underestimated. I understand your unorthodox approach but look closely as you have improved abilities which cannot used simultaneously. User:Sharlin/Sig 12:20, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Alrighty, I have changed my planned spec, I will now be using Seal of Command now after seeing all the 500 damage crits. The old spec up there was when I was planning on using only Seal of Righteoussness. And the Improved Seal of Wisdom was because I had a few extra points at the end and I often use the Seal to recover mana between battles.
This is the new Spec I have planned, at level 33 I have only put points into Retribution so the higher level stuff can still be changed around. I plan on putting extra points into Holy because I find healing more interesting and versatile then extra armor.
Also I don't like protection because the two lowest level talents are totally useless to me... I won't be using a shield and I will always have Sanctity Aura on so Improved devotion aura is not good. The extra % to hit would be nice but I don't want to spend effectively 8 points on it (3 for the talent and 5 wasted ones for the prerequisites). [7]
Long term you may want to move the points from [Pursuit of Justice] to [Crusade]. When it comes to recovering mana between battles blessings are meaningless, its all in drinking. Never underestimate the power of the protection paladin. They are very good tanks, and nearly required for certain encounters. They also are most powerful when AOE grinding. With the way [Reckoning] works its not uncommon for a paladin to actually want adds. I leveled as a protection paladin and some of the battles my character survived were just silly.
Your talent choices are fine overall 'cept the one I mentioned. [Pursuit of Justice] is nice early on but you can always get a speed enchant to your boots if its that important to move a bit quicker off your mount. Just don't fear changing talents because in the end it comes down to what you like playing not always what other people think is best User:Sharlin/Sig 11:28, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

destrustion lock needs help!!!

I just resently switched over to a destruction lock from an affliction lock for the dps. I have played an affliction lock from the start so I am struggling a bit with the switch. I don't know which dots are now just for main bosses and which are for regular mobs as I no longer have them being instant casts. So basically what is the new order for my spells and which ones are not as usefull now?

-- Gamergurl 17:04, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you get six ticks in before the mob dies? If so lead off with corruption. If its an instance then I suggest corruption because you want the tank to get aggro and shadow bolt spam will just get you killed. You can use the same idea for your pet too, multiple mobs then go corruption or if the mob will live long enough throw agony as well. In an instance, Corruption, Curse of Agony; with high spell damage; and Shadow bolt spam. If your with a mage putting down scorch debuffs then consider Curse of Elements after corruption and throw talented back immolations User:Sharlin/Sig 17:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Warlock Minion release?

When i first started playing WoW. a guild freind called Narod released an Infernal in Golshire to cause chaos and for everyone to attack. is it still possible to do so or did it mean people can nuke whole towns in 1 button and was thus removed?

-- KingStoph 23:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

If you want to release an infernal into goldshire, be our for an infernal nuking a town...don't even know where you'd get that from, plus goldshire isn't as populated as it once was, so the desire to cause chaos wouldn't exist too much there. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 03:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Goldshire is actually quite populated on many servers, it serves as the Alliance version the Barrens chat :). Just yesterday on my server I saw more x defeated y in a duel messages than npc spam. User:Sharlin/Sig 12:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Infernals are pretty feeble when they come up against max level characters, whether they're 60 before BC or 70 now... releasing an infernal in Orgrimmar used to be fairly common, but now it gets beaten down so fast it barely finishes the summoning animation. I helped summon a doom guard on my bank alt once, though, and that was kind of fun. :-D --Azaram 02:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
The summon as already enslaved User:Sharlin/Sig 12:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
"Humorous exaggeration". Also 'releasing'. :-p --Azaram 02:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)