Wowpedia talk:Warcraft pump/Archive06

From Wowpedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Dire bear armor nerf?

My in game tooltip is showing 370% armor instead of the previous and correct 450%. I didn't see that in any patch notes, did I miss it? --Azaram (talk) 12:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

More Blizzard craziness. Wowinsider has a good article looking at the changes, so you can read to see their take on it. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:53 AM PST 21 Nov 2008
Lovely. Not only did they take away a ton of armor (nearly a third of mine), there won't be any good armor to replace it. And they're taking away the good armor I do have. --Azaram (talk) 03:53, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
It wasn't changed from 450%. The 2.4->3.0 change was 400%->370% (450% is long gone in history, back in the 1.12->2.0 patch, if memory serves), and the new talent trees combined with significantly increased output from dps and healers should more than compensate for it at 70, especially with the 30% reduction in raid boss health. They are not taking away your effective armor, although the +armor bonus on non-armor items is going to simplify loot tables, and the number will be smaller. The Blizz devs have clearly stated that it's both been carefully considered and will be monitored to ensure that bears are just as viable for tanking in the 71-80 instances and 80 raids as the other 3 tanking classes. So, no craziness, no nerf, no changes to get upset about, just a modification to the mechanics that should come out about the same at the end of the day. Sure, it's a relatively significant change from 2.x, but it shouldn't take much to learn how to be an effective bear tank in 3.0. If you have encountered situations where it's come out as a real nerf to you, there's either something wrong with your gear, technique, or group/raid, or you need to post precise details of the problem on the Blizz forums for the devs to see. --User:WoWWiki-Murph/Sig 20:44, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I went from over 30k armor to 21k. (~73% damage mitigation to less than 68%...don't have it handy to look at). I'd call a third of my armor a pretty significant loss. 'There won't be any good armor to replace it' is based on "Second, leather gear in the Expansion has been designed to have standard point values for armor based on item level. There will be no more items with 'green' armor values. " from the Wowinsider article Fandyllic posted. And 'They're taking away the good armor I do have' is based on "In fact, in Patch 3.0, even the existing items are getting changed to have their armor values dropped." from the same place. So, without changing any gear at all, I log in and I've lost a third of my armor. Not exactly 'something wrong with my gear, technique, or group/raid'. I hadn't been tanking in a while, as I was playing my hunter, so I guess it happened at the 3.0 patch and I just hadn't noticed until I actually needed it, and I misremembered the 450%, but it's not exactly not a nerf. --Azaram (talk) 02:14, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes the numbers will have changed, but what you are seeing as a 30%-ish reduction in armor is actually a much smaller reduction in mitigation, thanks to the diminishing returns mechanic. When you combine this with the removal of crushing blows, new talent trees, reduction in health by 30% of level 70 raid bosses, increased output from dps and healers, and all the other changes from 2.4 to 3.0, it's not really a nerf to how bears were performing at level 70 in 2.4. From what I've seen, bears still make very viable tanks at level 70, the instances on the way to 80, and at 80 itself. Every single boss fight I have seen so far in 3.0.3, with a well geared bear as the tank has gone well, even when we were on level 80 content with a level 75 healer. I stand by what I said before, if a bear can't tank roughly equivalently to a warrior, paladin, or death knight in any given situation, there's something wrong with gear, group, talents, or technique. If such situations become apparent (and it's not down to one of the above), you need to post precise details on the Blizz forums to bring the situation to the attention of the developers.
Sure, some fights may still favour one class of tank over others, but that should be a minority of cases. Some classes of tank may have to work harder in certain situations, or may require a bit more healing, but all should be viable. If they hadn't changed the numbers on bear equipment, they would have been vastly overpowered with the 3.0 changes. If you read the whole of the Wowinsider article in detail, there's lots to explain the change, and it pretty much clarifies that bears are intended to be perfectly viable and approximately equal main tanks for WotLK content. There are very few parts of 3.0 that can be viewed on their own - you have to consider the combined package of changes and how they are working. E.g. I lost about 10% of my moonkin spell damage number in the conversion to spell power, but my damage output went up, possibly by as much as 10%. --User:WoWWiki-Murph/Sig 06:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Realize full well this thread is a good 6 months old now, but felt I should put this in. Don't recall exactly when the armor value changed, but part of the reason is because the armor difference between leather, mail and plate is smaller in WotLK than it was previously. Not sure if they raised armor on leather, or lowered mail/plate, but I notice it on my level 80 bear (green items mostly) that the armor I have isn't that much lower than what I have on my DK (level 166-200 blues). Instead of the armor to not get killed, and strength to increase threat gain, now instead all you have to do is sneeze in the general direction of a mob to gain threat, and there's tons of agility on leather which gives you a high dodge-rate instead. The diminished armor value is compensated for by dodge, it seems. It's still not viable to be a DPS cat though. I tried it, and it's just not possible to keep up with other classes at the same gear level. But despite the loss of specific bear-gear (even the tier pieces are better suited for cat then bear, but with gems and enchants it works anyway, from what I've seen), there's still bears in Naxx, VoA, and OS. --Metalbunny (talk) 18:58, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


How does an alliance character get to the Ghostlands? AND Where do I find a weapons master that trains above 350? -- Daphine (talk) 13:04, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

You ride along the road through northern Eastern Plaguelands to a portal that transports you to Ghostlands. There's no weapon trainers that will "train" you after 350; you get another 5 points in weapon skill to level up to when you gain a level (level 60 = 300 weapon skill points, level 61 = 305 weapon skill points, etc. g0urra[T҂C] 13:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Basically, weapon masters are for learning how to use a whole new kind of weapon. So for example if you were a druid, druids can learn staves, 1h and 2h maces, daggers, and fist-weapons. I believe druids do not come "pre-loaded" with fist-weapons, so if you wanted to learn those, you would need to see the weapon master in Darnassus, Ironforge, or Orgrimmar. Once you have learned a new type of weapon, you get skill points from attacking something with a weapon of that type. One of the best ways to skill up a new weapon type is with the training dummies that have been installed in cities.
You can check the class list to see which weapons are available for your class. If you've got all of them already, you're all set! -Howbizr (talk) 18:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Training dummies do not give skill points, they are for simply testing your abilities and your dps. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Ah must have changed it. I could have sworn they did before, but maybe that was in beta... Bummer. -Howbizr (talk) 12:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Between 3.0 and 3.0.4, training dummies DID give weapon skill points. It's not in the patch notes that they changed it, but I used them on live for that lol... but then they changed it, them bastards. --Metalbunny (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks everyone! This was exactly what I needed. I've now explored the Ghostlands and have leveled as high as I can go in several weapons - Thanks! -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daphine (talk · contr).

10 reasons to hate World of Warcraft???


I've read something disturbing from some german games website: 10 reasons to hate World of Warcraft. I thought that some reasons are very constructed, but they all have a valid point. What do you think of the article and the arguments? Funny or ridiculous?


-- Sebo1986 (talk) 14:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

People can rant how much they want about how oh-so-awful WoW is, but nobody really cares about it. Furthermore it does not warrant an article on WoWWiki, and may I remind you that this is not a forum, so please don't talk about it here. g0urra[T҂C] 14:55, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Just read the last page and you'll realize it's meant more in a fun/ironic way. You can tell the author is playing WoW himself, and is actually enjoying it. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 17:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

LFG system order of instances

I asked this once a long time ago, but never had an answer. Your "Instances By Level" guide ( ) is excellent. It lists instances basically in order of difficulty.

Regarding the in-game LFG system (the one accessed by the green button), it lets you choose from a selection of recommended instances. Even if other instances are allowable, they won't be available through this method. As I move up through new levels, the list of instances through the LFG system changes accordingly. The order in which new instances have appeared in that list (and later dropped off the list) is following some other logic than the one listed in the guide. Does anyone understand this order? I can only say for sure it is NOT the same as the guide's order. Thank you.

-- (talk) 08:25, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I will investigate, but here's my educated guess. I recall the actual order in the drop down is alphabetical. What appears in the dropdown (and when they drop off) are instances that are "green through orange" to you. So if the portal requires level 60 to enter (aka "orange") you won't see it at 59. On the other hand, if the instance requires level 15 and you're level 60 (aka "gray") you also won't see it.
If you go to the WoW Flashmap, which unfortunately does not include Northrend (yet, I hope), when you go to the detail view per instance, you can see the Blizzard level range by mousing over the blue swirl icons. I believe the bottom end of the range is not the recommended level but the actual requirements with the portal ("orange"), and the top end of the range is "green".
For example, Hellfire Citadel lists Ramparts as 60-62. I'd like to talk to a player in game who is 63, for example, and ask him if Ramparts is still available in his LFG interface.
You used to be able to see the level range within the game from the summoning stone, but it's no longer there since they repurposed them. That I am aware of, there is no longer a good way to see the level requirements from within the game, without some brute force testing.
If you were going to add this information to the pages, you might use Atlas Mod as a source. I believe they've gathered this information, and it should be consistent with the flashmap (last I checked, but that was several patches ago).
Hopefully this is some help... -Howbizr (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
There is a Northrend interactive map with level ranges on the offiicial site... just a little hidden. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:08 PM PST 12 Dec 2008

Eternal transmutation

Moved from Village pump.

I see references on Wowhead and Thottbot to transmuting Eternal X into Eternal Y, yet I can find no information on how these transmutation recipes are acquired. I am currently editing the Eternal X pages, and for the moment am commenting out such transmutation references.

If someone can shoot me a comment on the transmutes, and perhaps even create pages for the transmute abilities themselves, I would alter my ways as soon as I noticed. Otherwise, I leave transmuting as an exercise for the reader. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I heard they "discover" these transmutes by doing the titanium bar transmute. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 20:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Yup and it sucks. Transmute: Titanium at Wowhead.
Transmutes common Northrend metals and crystallized life into a titanium bar. You have a chance to discover other transmutations when successful.
Once you discover an Eternal transmute, you can do those instead to discover others, but 8 [Saronite Bars] per can be an expensive start if it doesn't proc the first few tries. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:33 PM PST 15 Dec 2008
There is some evidence that there may be a cheaper way to discover more External transmutes, but be wary:
--Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:37 PM PST 15 Dec 2008

Can low level's tank?

Moved from Village pump.

I would have thought not because the gear doesnt give your character enough armor to defend against attack so you still lose tons of health? -- Madmenrus (talk) 15:54, 14 December 2008 (UT

Lower level characters can tank just fine, as long as they are geared appropriately for their level, and on appropriate level content (i.e. within the level ranges on Instances by level). The lower level instances and bosses are tuned to allow a reasonably geared 5 person group complete them without significantly more difficulty than an end-game group on end-game instances. If anything, the lower level content may be less demanding, as it's not expected that the entire group will be maximally geared for their level, or have the same experience in running dungeons that high level groups should have. --User:WoWWiki-Murph/Sig 18:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Given I was overgeared... As in BT/Hyjal gear at 70, but I was tanking multiple orange mobs at the same time with little difficulty on Euphonia - doing AN and most of Old Kingdom. Red became problematic because too many hits would fail, including a good number of taunts. -Howbizr (talk) 04:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I just think that when you look at any damage taken on your character and other eoples it doesnt seem reduced by much and also i think when you get plate you could tank a lot better because you have an advantage over rogues wearing leather because of the damage reduction im not sure ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madmenrus (talk · contr).
I can tell you from experience, even when a plate wearer comes into a relatively "easy" instance but is not tanked specced, and has no tank gear, you will probably fail to down the bosses. Really the armor is only part of the mitigation formula. Stamina, being uncrittable, block (for some classes), dodge, and threat are all factors. But I think I've gotten off topic. -Howbizr (talk) 18:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Also at low levels should you focus on stamina armor stats or strengths? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madmenrus (talk · contr).

Please sign your posts on talk pages - use four tildes at the end of your comment (~~~~). Tanks should try to have the best gear they can reasonably get, and it's a balance of stats - there's little point in keeping an item because you like the stamina on it when the item is 10+ levels below your character. Armor, stamina, and defense are key stats for all tanks, but there's also dodge, parry, and block, where appropriate. What level are you talking about when you say "low levels" - I'd been interpreting that as say level 10-40, others have been talking about level 60-70, or even early 70s? You might also want to discuss this on the Blizzard forums ([2] or [3]), and read the stickies there - WoWWiki is not really the best place for this type of discussion. --User:WoWWiki-Murph/Sig 19:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Around levels 10-25 --Madmenrus (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
So levels 10-25, it isn't as important that you have someone fill the "tank" and "healer" roles. But yes it will probably be easier to with someone wearing mail, a shield, and stacking some extra stamina or maybe even defense to practice the tank role. But I've completed dungeons in that level range with little to no organization.
Trying to stay on topic, I might re-read the tank article to see if something could be added to address the general "tanking before 80" topic. Although it does already discuss rogues and other as tanks. -Howbizr (talk) 18:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Wow this post got a lot of responses lol anyway yeh i set up this post cause i have a level 18 gnome warrior i made in trial, im 12 by the way and im gonna get the full game for christmas so yeh. also MERRY X-MAS WOWWIKIANS! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madmenrus (talk · contr).

Pet Problems?

Moved from Village pump.

I am a level 15 Hunter character with a level 15 pet.My problem is that the pet keeps disappearing after a time when I am running to another location. I have to keep calling the pet back. The pet is almost always fed to a level of 125% attack, but it doesn't stick around if I have been running for a time. Any ideas would be appreciatedin advance. Thanks. -- Ghostwind59 (talk) 20:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's ever happened to me on the hunters I've tried to level (gotten to about level 40). I would try opening a ticket with Blizz. Might also troll the forums to see if anyone else has the same problem, but it sounds pretty weird to me. Does it happen with just a certain kind of pet, or any kind? (turtle, cat, bear, etc). -Howbizr (talk) 20:39, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I know this was an issue back in the day (before any xpaks) where pets just weren't able to keep up with hunters, especially when mounted, but it seems to me that its a bug of some sort... cause this hasn't been an issue for quite some time. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:36, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
If you're not used to the way hunter pets work, it could be that the pet is engaging in combat with something that you have run past. If this happens and the pet is in aggressive or defensive mode, it will stop following you and fight. If you keep running, the pet will despawn when you get out of range (not quite the same as being dismissed, but it will need to be called back). If that's not the case, it's relatively unlikely that it's a bug in the game unless there's lots of talk about it on the Blizz forums, and is either something that you are doing causing the pet to stop moving / get stuck / disappear, or it's a problem with an AddOn. --User:WoWWiki-Murph/Sig 21:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Good point, Murph. So just try using Ability seal.pngPassive mode when traveling around and see if that fixes it! -Howbizr (talk) 05:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Defining a quest chain

If completing a chain "unlocks" another quest given by a neighboring NPC, is it part of the chain? For example withN [70] Speak with the Ogre unlocks Bombing Run and then Bomb Them Again!. -Howbizr (talk) 18:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I would say no, as chains tend to follow mini story arcs of some kind, however it does count as a prerequisite for the other quest(chain). User:Decibal/Sig 19:01, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Technically speaking, a "chain" is where the followup quest is immediately offered to the player upon turnin. If the player must talk to the NPC a second time, or another NPC, to get the next quest they are not "linked". Those quests are simply prerequisites. However, here on the wiki, if those prereq breaks still join together to form a simple series of quests (i.e. it doesn't branch out into a second quest chain), we usually consider the entire thing a chain. Your example wouldn't be a chain, because the prereq quest opens up a number of other quests. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 22:12, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

[Druid] Weapon damage to FAP formula in 3.0.8

Okay, so in 3.0.8 Blizzard is making Druid AP scale with WMD to make more weapons appeal to druids. What I want to know is... How is it going to scale? I really doubt it's just DPS x 14, because that'd be extremely OP, if anyone knows how it scales I'd appreciate it. Thanks. -- Basher1200 (talk) 07:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't heard any details myself, but I'd check MMO Champion or raid forums like Elitist Jerks, if not just the official WoW forums. -Howbizr (talk) 15:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Let's be clear here. This change is designed to make more weapons appeal to feral druids. I think this is ironic since a massive amount of Northrend quest rewards appeal to rogues and feral druids with very few usable by balance or resto druids. Maybe this is payback for slowly reducing armor on feral druids, but I find the lack of gear for balance/resto druids available until end-game annoying. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:53 PM PST 5 Jan 2009
Or amends for the utter and complete lack of feral gear in classic wow until Tier 3. -Howbizr (talk) 23:57, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
It goes the other way too. Weapons that used to be druid specific (class quest rewards excluded) can now be used by all other classes as well, to some degree (prolly won't see a lot of rogues with staves, but still). But the way they implemented the change is confusing. I see feral AP on weapons I can't even use... like swords and axes. In a way it's more fair to druids though, as there didn't use to be a whole lot of weapons that were practical, where warriors could use just about anything. For the sake of balance (which Blizzard still claim is what they're trying to do to the game), it's only fair that all the tanking classes get an equal choice in weaponry. --Metalbunny (talk) 19:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The Burning Lich

Hi, been playing wow for nearly 3 years now, and out of the people who i know who play WoW, Im the only one intreated in lore. My mind has been doing thinkys for a while now and i've been wondering something- Did the Burning Legion create the necromatic powers that enable the lich king to create undead servants, or was that power already there-if that is the case, where did it originate?

Another question(/sleep) Where is the Burning Legions home world/main fortress and do the origonal Eredar look the same as the Drenie(excuse spelling)- would be intrested to see some fan art if anyone has links -- Jarkimond (talk) 09:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, nobody created necromantic magic, in the same way that nobody created frost or fire-based magic. It's just one of the magical paths to follow, one of the forces that can be manipulated. Mortals can stumble upon it and use it without the Legion's interference, though the liches and the orcs were taught by Kil'jaeden.
As to your second question, nobody knows. It is implied that the Legion (or at least the eredar) are still headquartered on Argus, but it isn't certain. It does appear that man'ari eredar have only minor morphologically differences to draenei. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Low Level Shoulders

I am currently a low level, (16) Where can i get some cheep shoulders? -- Alecslo (talk) 17:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Easiest way (in general) to get gear is through questing. But at your level, there aren't many shoulders available. Probably the only way to even get them, without complete luck, is through the auction house. And I wouldn't necessarily expect cheap. But they will get cheaper as you get higher in level. -Howbizr (talk) 05:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Ignoring the Wintergrasp ones at the top, here are some Wowhead links you can look through:
Some will be too high level quest rewards, but they are easy to figure out and skip. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:39 PM PST 5 Jan 2009
There aren't any classes that can wear plate before level 40 anyway, are there? --Azaram (talk) 10:45, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Correct. Several classes upgrade to mail and plate at level 40. No classes can wear plate before 40. -Howbizr (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

War of the Ancients Question

I was browsing through lore and noticed that during the War of the Ancients the Tauren, Furbolgs, and Earthen assisted the Nightelves, but there was no hinting of trolls. The Trolls were stil fairly populous, wouldn't trolls have been asked too since the fate of Kalimdor was at stake?

-- VykodenX (talk) 19:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It's possible that the population of trolls on Kalimdor was fairly small and as they were mortal enemies of the night elves, they may not have cared to help. Most of the large troll empires were on the other continent and Zul'Farrak was far to the south. --Gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:43 PM PST 5 Jan 2009
But remember that there weren't other contintents before War of the Ancients. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 04:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Remember that the War of the Ancients Trilogy books where WarCraft books, not World of WarCraft books, and were (mostly) released before WoW and before all that deliciously juicy troll lore, including the two great empires, the war with the bugs, and being the potential progenitors of the night elves themselves. It's possible Mr. Knaak and the Lore Team simply hadn't thought of the trolls at that time. Alternatively, with the Kaldorei at the high of their arcane power, that means they would have very recently decimated the Troll Empires for the first time, and thusly not considered a global force as they rebuilt their civilization. --Zedric (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

OnLoad Lua problem.

Moved from Village pump.

Hi. I'm new to Addon Stuff for WoW and all I'm trying to do is use the UIErrorFrame to send 1 of 2 messages, depending on whether the loaded character is in a certain guild, this is purely for my amusement.

The problem is when I set it to a slash command it works, but it will not do anything OnLoad, which is my goal.

Here's my XML

<Ui xmlns="" xmlns:xsi="" xsi:schemaLocation=" ..\..\FrameXML\UI.xsd"> 

<!-- Basic Frame -->

<Frame name="SGA_MAIN_FRAME">


and here is my Lua

function SGA_IsInGuild()
  guildName, guildRankName, guildRankIndex = GetGuildInfo("player");
  if (guildName == "GuildName") then
    UIErrorsFrame:AddMessage("Recognized Member Of GuildName",0,1.0,0,69,5);
    UIErrorsFrame:AddMessage("Not A Member Of GuildName",1.0,0,0,69,5);

SLASH_SGAdd1 = "/sga";

SlashCmdList["SGAdd"] = SGA_IsInGuild;

...of course GuildName was substituted for the real name but the basic principle should be the same. Again, when I use the slash command I see the message, on loadup I see nothing. I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.

Edit (Deth101 (talk) 21:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)): I would like to add that when I use the slash command "/sga" my GMOTD disappears until I reload the UI. "/console reloadui" doesn't fix it, though, I have to use "/script ReloadUI();". Also, I tried using Blizzard's basic "Hello World" addon example that they published, and it won't show me the messagebox on startup, either, anymore, that says "Hello World". I'm going to poke around here some more and hopefully find a 'cure' for my addon (if it qualifies...I think of it more as a user-created useless toy).

-- Deth101 (talk) 03:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

You might need to try the WoW Forums for this technical of a question. This community might not have enough LUA expertise to be much help. Personally, I've only failed to figure out LUA/FrameXML/etc about 4 times now, and I've pretty much given up. -Howbizr (talk) 23:17, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I believe the problem here lies with how ADDON_LOADED fires before much of the game's variables are available; guild information for the player may simply be inaccessible to an add-on at this stage of the loading process. See Events that fire during the loading process to read more on what I'm talking about.
Try using PLAYER_LOGIN in place of ADDON_LOADED and see whether this improves things a bit. --Tombatch (talk)

Can someone help me make a page for my guild in wowwiki?

Moved to Village pump, since this is more about the wiki than Warcraft.

Mid-level Instances for Ally Mages

Hey everyone! My first post/comment. First off sorry if this has been discussed before, I'm sure it has. I don't have regular access to the interwebs at work and don't have the time to do the proper research. I currently have a lvl 31 Human mage (frost) and want to do some instances. I've already done DM and Stocks, but wasn't sure what the next one should be. I don't have time to run too many, so want to make sure when I do run its well worth it. What is a good instance for mage specfic loot at my current level and going forward. I've been carrying around that dang staff from DM forever and want to upgrade.

Thanks in advance to everyone! -- Aladc (talk) 15:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Check out instances by level and see if that meets your needs. It looks like a pretty through article. In terms of loot specifically, I usually splurged and bought a nice weapon/wand on the auction house while leveling. -Howbizr (talk) 22:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

What can 214,748 gold buy you? (Maximum 32-bit integer)

I read that 214,748 gold, 36 silver, and 48 copper, is the maximum amount of gold you can carry on your character, thanks to a 32-bit integer limit.

How much can that buy you? What is the most expensive item in WoW (and wikilink it please) and how many of those can you buy with that much cash?

-- ENG (talk) 22:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Buy a Motorcycle mount from an engineer, buy all the mounts from Mei Francis (and other ones from factions), then sell the rest of the gold and go on a vacation.. cause lord knows if someone hit the max amount of gold, they need to take one from WoW. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 22:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
That I know of, the most expensive item is WoW is the  [Tundra Mammoth] at 20,000g if you choose to buy it with neutral reputation. I easily can make 1,000g a week, faster now that Wrath of the Lich King has been released, but even 200,000+ gold is a lot! That would take years at my pace! -Howbizr (talk) 23:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I currently make 2000g a day and have all of the mounts listed above. It's really not that hard. --PcjWowpedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!C207,729 contributions and counting) 23:38, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Well! So first we see airports and biplanes, and now we see motorcycles. All 20th and 21st-century marvels in a game that's supposed to take place in approximately the 15th-century setting!

But as we could surmise, take enough 21st-century citizens back to the 15th century, and somebody will re-invent 21st century inventions. With 9 million time-travelers on Azeroth, some of us were bound to re-invent 21st-century hardware! Plenty of us do miss the 21st century all that much to want to invent whatever it takes to feel like the 21st century again. --ENG (talk) 08:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Is it so hard to believe that gnomes or goblins (or beings from other worlds) could create technology we in real life call modern? No one questioned the mechostriders, shredders, or gryocopters of days past... how is a mechanical vehicle on wheels instead of legs not a step forward in tech for them? You know, if you don't even think about the siege engines from past games... And I'm not going to even acknowledge the airports/biplanes comment... they've been in the game long before wotlk. User:CoobraSssssssssssssssssssssssss User:CoobraFor Pony! {TDon't hiss at me.CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.) 21:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
ENG also forgot nuclear power, since Gnomeregan was irradiated by an accident... but talking about realism to a nine foot tall bipedal talking cow with a giant wolf and a glowing skeletal horse in her pocket along with the five backpacks she's wearing seems a little silly. --Azaram (talk) 02:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Mid level mage weapons

I'm a lvl 33 mage, frost spec, and can't find a good upgrade to my weapon. None of the quest rewards or world drops are a real upgrade from what I have now. I'm still carrying around the staff from DM. I have looked in the AH and can't find anything with good stats either. Any suggestions for good quests, instance drops or AH items? Thanks in advance. -- Aladc (talk) 01:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

[Kam's Walking Stick], drop from Kam Deepfury in The Stockades, would be your best bet. g0urra[T҂C] 09:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Armorsmith vs. weaponsmith can anyone help with decision?

It seems I have an important choice, armorsmith vs. weaponsmith. Can anyone help me decide which one is best? -- BigE1971 (talk) 13:53, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Armorsmithing obviously only is worth it if you're a plate class, I'll just assume you're one of those. As of now, there are only a few blue BoP items you can create with both Armorsmithing and Weaponsmithing in WotLK Content. I suggest not choosing a specialization until there are lvl80 epic recipes for them. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 14:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
ATM, Armorsmithing is only worthwhile for holy paladins, and resto shamans. None of what's implemented in the game as of yet has any uses for other purposes. I was so disappointed when I forgot to read the price tags and spent 120g on recipes (from the trainer) for stuff that I have no use for. Although one might be able to sell the items, it's so easy to get good gear now, that there is few requests for the items only an armorsmith can make. Only upside is that the server I play on is plagued by farmers, making it impossible for anyone with a RL job to level their professions without a huge stack of gold, so few actually are able to make the special items. I still wish Blizz would put price limits on the AH, so the farmers would stop ruining the game for everyone. When you have to pay 30g for a stack of cobalt, it's no wonder that the gold sellers are proliferating. --Metalbunny (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
If people stopped paying 30g for a stack of cobalt, the price would go down. Supply and demand. If blizzard were to force price limits, nobody would bother farming and then it wouldn't be available at all... --Azaram (talk) 02:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The Lich King's other half...

I was just wondering if any of ther other race's of azeroth know that Ner'zhul is the other half of the lich king. Because most of the alliance (and I think some horde) refer to him as either Lich King or Arthas, but not Ner'zhul. I would think that maybe some of the Shamans may sense Ner'zhul but im not 100% sure. So I guess my real question is wether you think the other races will ever find out that Ner'zhul is part of the Lich King if ever? -- Knox3290 (talk) 15:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure a few people have figured it out by now. Most people wouldn't really care, but people like Furion or the Kirin Tor archmagi are probably aware. If nothing else, Sylvanas probably told the Horde leadership. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
It can be assumed that Sylvanas and other Forsaken, or the Death Knights, as persons who had direct contact with the Lich King, know about Ner'zhul. On the Lich King article, there is a quote from The Ebon Watcher (Darion in disguise) which can be interpreted that way that he knows the Lich King consists of two merged beings. Couldn't find the source for that quote though (ingame conversation?) for a context to support this assumption. edit: ok, found a source for that conversation[4] - doesn't support my theory more than the single quote, though. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 17:16, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, Brann knew, but Brann has always been kinda clairvoyent about certain matters. His readership would know through his knowledge of course. Not to mention the term "Lich King" is pretty much the same thing as saying Ner'zhul, the being existed before Arthas donned the armor.Baggins (talk) 17:42, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
When we get to the Icecrown Citadel, and have to defeat Arthas (22M HP) and his undead friends, and then he dies and Ner'Zhul comes out and we have to kill him too (assuming health around 12M), and he'll prolly raise Arthas from the dead and then we have to kill them both, again - Well then people, NPCs and players, are bound to find out that Ner'Zhul is hiding inside Arthas.
DISCLAIMER: Nothing's been mentioned about the Icecrown Citadel yet (hell we still have to get through Ulduar and prolly 1-2 other T8 instances), but this is just my vision of how the fight will go, based on currently implemented DK abilities. --Metalbunny (talk) 19:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Gestation periods

I play on an RP server and have noticed with pregnancy there are no basic gestation periods set for races, from some research it appears elves can carry for 2 years, tauren and humans months, but I was hoping to get something a bit more concrete any ideas or suggestions?

-- Talibah (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I would go with 9 months due to the lack of information. I know that Vereesa Windrunner was "several months pregnant" in The Well of Eternity when Giramar and Galadin were born. Rolandius Paladin.gif (talk - contr) 12:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
It's logical to assume that humans, and high elves (or at least those carrying half-human children) have a gestation period of nine months. I find it difficult to believe in a figure as high as two years. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
In first edition AD&D, there was a listing of gestation periods, with the various elves having times ranging from one to two years. Gray elves, as the longest lived at 2000 years, had a two year pregnancy. Gnomes, if I remember right, were seven months. But it's been almost 30 years. :P The gray elves I specifically remember because it was the race I played most often. The times varied with both the lifespan and body sizes, smaller body but longer life (dwarf) had longer than smaller body but shorter life (gnome), but all the elves were roughly the same size, and varied according to lifespan. Been trying to find my old books, which is why I haven't replied, but can't find them anywhere... --Azaram (talk) 10:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


Has anyone else had trouble riding a Kodo in the undercity? Specifically, Kodos cannot enter or exit the elevators in the Undercity. We should protest and get something done about this. Just because I ride a Kodo doesn't mean I shouldnt be able to benefit from all of the aspects of the Undercity, such as not dismounting every time I encounter an elevator! -- Blalack77 (talk) 21:26, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

*shrug* While I don't have to dismount entering the city gates, I certainly do entering any shops, or the Stormwind Bank, on many of my toons. Also, when mounted, I can go through water that would have my gnome swimming. And... you can always gain reputation with one of the other factions and get one of the other mounts. Or do PvP and get one of the other race's PvP mounts. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Welcome to the Horde. Tauren and Kodos had always problems with doors and gates that weren't tall enough. I thought they fixed UC for Tauren on Kodos, I haven't ridden a Kodo in a while, but I know there are still problems everywhere for Tauren on tall bipeds (raptors, Raven Lord) e.g. the corridors into and out of the Dalaran Sewers. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 18:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Eirik, it's that we can't get into the city at all while mounted. We get stuck in the doorways to the elevator. Once we're through the elevator we can mount again fine. This happened with the patch where they set it so you can no longer click-target through walls. I have the problem on any mount on my male tauren, but only on the kodo for my female. (Well, she only ever had the kodo and the Frostwolf...) --Azaram (talk) 01:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Blalack77, it is probably that you are a Tauren. I have a Tauren, and he cannot enter UC while on a mount. It is simply an issue with the Tauren themselves, and it cannot be fixed without modifying the location itself. GL, and let mme know if it changes at all. Lockeddea (talk) 23:10, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

What is with the Thousand Needles Harpy's respawn rate...?

The respawn rate of the Harpy's of Thousand Needles, specifically those of the Roguefeather Den and The Screeching Canyon, is roughly 1-5 seconds, or so it was with me. I would kill a wave of them and as soon as they were dead, I was surrounded by them again. I took 3 waves before I died from lack of potions. Has anyone else had this problem?? -- Blalack77 (talk) 22:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The respawn rate of mobs is tied to the number of players in the current (sub?)zone, since 2.4 or maybe even an earlier patch. It could be that an Alliance raid (or more) was heading towards Thunder Bluff, after they landed at Thalanaar, this route taking them through Thousand Needles. Though I think it's only subzones and not whole zones, so I guess it was a rare bug. Maybe some spawns were already 'queued' but couldn't spawn as long as the mobs taking up their spawn point were dead, but then they immediately spawned. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 23:57, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Dual presence Unholy and frost build

Moved from Village pump.

plz comment on this build i want to know if it would be a good PvE and PvP build Unholy/Frost plz tell me wat u think

-- Dviper87 (talk) 07:03, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest looking at death knight builds or the external links section of the death knight article. I also strongly recommend ElitistJerks in general for theorycrafting in general. -Howbizr (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Mulgore Secret Cave?

The cave with a hut in the background.

When flying from Thunder Bluff to Orgrimmar, it's possible to look down and see a small, seemingly inaccessable cave. I was able to find it on "" and can link to it, I assume it is allowed, so I'll link it at the end. But I didn't see anything in lore or rumors so I assume it's secret. It would be nice to find out what it's for.

-- Xinnor (talk) 21:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not really a secret cave, its simply something to look at while flying along on the flight path. Many flight paths contain scenery for inaccessible areas, the dwarven airport, the river camp in elywnn forest, high elf ruins in desolace... I'd have to say nearly all flight paths in vanilla WoW had/has something inaccessible just for the purpose of viewing from flight. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
What you may have not noticed, is there is also a small hut and bonfire a little northwest from the cave on the next ledge. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 22:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

--- It's not even inaccessible, through some well timed "wall jumping" you can ascend to this cave from the hills on the border between Barrens and Stonetalon, then walk right over, there is however nothing in the cave and it is a standard design, one thing of interest is there is a hut up there, and some of the rocks have ancient cave-tauren drawings on them ;) Vicera (talk) 06:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Necromancer V Graven One

Ive been looking into an Lore Class to RP as apose to being a Death Knight. Graven one has stolen my attention, but i do wonder. whats the diffrence between a Graven One, and a Necromancer?

-- KingStoph (talk) 16:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, check Graven one: "Unlike a necromancer, who preys upon the living for life energy, the graven one seeks to create undead in a perfect state to serve her as faithful and undying servants." and more on that page</smartass>
Well to condense my first impression of that article, graven ones utilize fewer numbers of stronger(?) undead minions actually only one minion at a time, maybe akin to Hunter pets or an Unholy DKs permanent ghoul, and necromancers usually keep their body and life (until becoming a lich or getting raised again like Kel'Thuzad - note that many ingame necromancers are humanoid) while a graven one discards his mortal shell early on. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 08:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

60 DK enchantments

From Wowpedia talk:Village pump.

Hey everyone I want to tank with my DK 60 pal and want to know what enchantments I should purchase for it? Any suggestions? -- Slithius77 (talk) 15:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I will try to not write a book about tanking cause it's one of my favorite subjects.... But you should probably go here to look up enchants. Until you hit level 80, don't worry about melee mitigation and spell resistance too much. I would stack stamina enchants when available (it gives a lot of "bang for your buck" while leveling). Otherwise pick defense, expertise, dodge, parry, or strength. This advise also goes for gemming.
While I'm at it, consider getting a  [Necklace of the Deep] crafted for when you reach level 65. If you have the money, you can put level 80 rare gems in it, making it pretty OP. -Howbizr (talk) 17:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

playing US and Europe WoW from 1 PC

I was wandering if its possible to play both Wow (US and Europe) from 1 PC, i am moving back home to Europe but i have friends on US Wow and don't want to lose connections. Would be nice if it was possible. If yes , how to do it? -- Lilua (talk) 22:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

It is possible; from your World of Warcraft folder go into Data -> enGB and open with a text editor. You'll see the following text:
set realmlist
set patchlist
set realmlistbn ""
set portal eu

Change it to:

set realmlist
set patchlist
set realmlistbn ""
set portal us

Save the document, then start up World of Warcraft. You should be able to log on to the US servers now. If you want to go back to playing on EU servers, just change the "us" part back to "eu". --g0urra[T҂C] 07:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

If you use a North American install disc, you'll retain the US realmlist. The default realmlist is based on the installation source, not your locale. Only problem is that for a US install, you HAVE to get the US expansionpacks. There's significant differences between the US and Euro clients, and you cannot mix expansions and patches for them (this goes for the Asian and South American clients as well).
Also, when it comes patch time you will have a problem as the US and Euro patches are not compatible with each other. My friend used a Euro client to connect to US servers, and it only works until the next patch comes out. Euro servers do not have the US patch, and US servers do not have the Euro patch. If you use the Euro version to connect to the US servers, it will fail to download the next patch, and come patch day you can no longer connect. It's the same the other way. Manually installing patches quickly becomes annoying, as they're not all released as manually downloadable, so you'll have to get them from a friend (especially the 500 MB patches are rather hard to send by email, most mailservers do not accept files that big). And every patch you have to change your realmlist back to what you need to be able to play on the servers you want.
This is not meant as an attempt at discouraging you, just be aware that it's not without issues. I used to use Danish keyboards (until they broke) with my US WoW, and it meant having to manually change a lot of the hotkeys to match the keyboard layout. Then when I had to switch to a US keyboard, I had to change all the settings back again. But when you move to a different country, you have to expect a little work to retain old habits.
It is also possible to keep both a WOW us and WOW eu installation on the same computer. You only have to change the installation path for one of them. Just make sure that you do not attempt to run both clients at the exact same time if you're a Windows user. It'll end in memory corruption and the computer will BSOD. Been there, done that. For some reason running the regular client alongside the PTR does not cause the same problem. --Metalbunny (talk) 20:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hunter armor at level 56

What's the best Hunter armor for a lv 56? -- Onlybray(Corruption)-Ghostlands (talk) 16:59, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Without going into too much detail, just do quests, and always choose the mail items. There's a lot more information in the guides, such as starting a hunter that you might check out. -Howbizr (talk) 17:34, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

How does looting in WoW work?

Okay, I'm really curious after reading so many obviously wrong "tips" and "rumors" on how to increase drop rates on things, how does looting ACTUALLY work in WoW? I know that things like "killing Baron Rivendare in the middle of the circle" doesn't affect his drop rate on his horse, or anything like that, but I constantly see speculation on how best to "attain" certain things. The best explanation I got once was that people hate to leave anything to pure chance so they attempt to put logic behind random numbers to assume they have some control over it when in fact they don't.

To the best of my knowledge the ONLY thing I've seen that affects drop rates is the size of your party... which may not even be true but it at least SEEMS that the larger my party or raid is, the more often items of value will drop. I've tested this several times by comparing drops between a 10 man Kara group and a 3 man Kara group.

So I'm curious, does anyone know exactly how drop rates work in WoW? My guess is that the devs simply assign a particular item to a mob or a node (in the case of mining/fishing/herbalism/chests/etc.) and set a number to represent the drop rate... so say if they enter 100, the item will drop 1 in 100 times, giving it a 1% drop rate, is this simply all there is to it?

Also is loot determined at the time of looting or during the spawn of the mob/node? I'm curious because while looking up information on the turtle mount I encountered an interesting question where someone who was fishing in a node has another person start fishing the same node and caught the turtle and the node disappeared, and he was curious if he had gotten the last cast off would he have gotten it or if the actual loot is determined at the time of looting? -- Vicera (talk) 06:44, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Until I hear otherwise, and I've been playing wow for years and looking at data sites like wowhead and thottbot for years, it's constant. You can join a party, and it's constant.
The only thing you have control over is how many kills per minute. If you increase your kills, and the respawn rate is favorable, you can speed up your farming. A popular method to farm faster is "round 'em up and aoe." This is pretty typical for paladin consecrate, or mage arcane spells. -Howbizr (talk) 17:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Loot is determined when an NPC is created, e.g. when it spawns in the overworld, or when a dungeon ID is generated. However, as the random number generator probably uses timestamps, it is impossible to determine/affect what loot you get. One millisecond later, and the loot could be completely different. ~ Nathanyel (talk) 12:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Can World of Warcraft (& its Expansions) be played in India?

I am a big fan of this game, i live in india, I want to start playing it. But if i buy it online, from India OR Buy it in UK, WILL IT WORK IN INDIA? WILL I BE ABLE TO PLAY FROM INDIA? Please HELP -- Athilium (talk) 15:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I play with friends on US servers who live all over, including Alaska, Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, and Korea. Reason stands to believe it should work. I don't believe the US has any trade embargoes with India. Although, you may consider buying a European copy instead of a US copy - the connection might be faster from India.
See the post above for a little bit more information about the European vs US copies of WoW. -Howbizr (talk) 17:50, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


Moved from the Village pump.

I'm a level 20 rogue so i usually run Dead mines with friends but when i try to get to it through StormWind my computer lags extremely. Does anybody have any suggestions? -- Odakai (talk) 14:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Contact tech support for your locale. or Official Technical Support forum in the US. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kaydeethree (talk · contr). 06:28, 1 May 2009

Is it just me, or do the horde seem to win most BGs?

It may just be me, but whenever I've been in a battle, the horde seems to almost always win. I would say they win 7 out of 10 times. Also, when I've played an Arathi Basin, oftern, a horde mage, and druid or something like that, seem to be able to get on top of the stables. I have tried everything I can think of, on how to get up there. Does anyone else know about this? I'm asking for a real answer here, so don't comment if you don't know. Thanks, -- TeaSippinJoe (talk) 13:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

This varies depending on the battlegroup. CogHammer.gif Ose talk/3721 13:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Definitely Ose. I've switched from Alliance side Deathwing to Horde side Boulderfist, and the horde on Boulderfist swear the alliance always win, and the alliance said the horde always won Deathwing. -Howbizr (talk) 14:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
You also have to take Murphy's Law into consideration, people will always remember negative events more - even if you win more often that you lose overall, a short streak of losses can make you think "aww, we always lose" ~ Nathanyel (talk) 12:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)